OSX Lion

Feelgood

Alright she's installed (available on Apple Developer Program),
but I dunno how I feel about this one.

First point to note get ready to throw out your magic mouse, Lion pretty
much requires a touchpad to run all the new features. Using the touchpad
on the imac is a bit weird. I'm used to swiping back on the magic
mouse to scroll up but with the touchpad like the MBP you swipe
forward to scroll up. Actually takes some time to get used to!. You CAN
switch on the legacy mode on Lion to use your mouse but you going to miss
out on features.

My imac now mimics IOS, its a bit mental looking!
There are definitely 2 things I can see happening here.

a) OSX is morphing in IOS with heavy dependance on the App Store.

b) Without a shadow of a doubt, there is a touchscreen imac on the way.
I actually keeping touching the imac screen trying to launch apps!.

fasty

I still haven't got around to installing it. Can you disable the fugly looking iCal UI?

Hi Feelgood,

will you let us know how you get on using the Touchpad over the course of a few days with Lion.
I got a touchpad a few months back, and while it was nice to use i couldn't really stay using it over a long period.
It didn't feel as comfortable as a mouse to me, and keeping the hand in the (i don't know how'd you describe it) the "hover" position, to enable the few gestures available felt odd.

Anyhoo, from what you've said about it being a major part of the OS
i suppose i better get back to using it for when Lion comes out

Sad Professor

Jobs has already shot down the idea of a touchscreen Mac. Vertical touchscreens just aren't ergonomically practical. Other computer manufactures will probably waste time with them, but Apple is smart enough to know better. The iOS features are being added to appeal to iPhone users who don't have a Mac. Experienced Mac users are free to ignore them. I'll be sticking with my mouse.

opinion guy

Sad Professor wrote: »

Jobs has already shot down the idea of a touchscreen Mac. Vertical touchscreens just aren't ergonomically practical. Other computer manufactures will probably waste time with them, but Apple is smart enough to know better. The iOS features are being added to appeal to iPhone users who don't have a Mac. Experienced Mac users are free to ignore them. I'll be sticking with my mouse.

My folks have had a touch screen acer desktop for at least 6 months. In truth the touch screen capabilites are rarely used by anyone - but that may well in part be because its running windoze which isn't built for touch operation really. The screen is big and gorgeous thou

Sean Quagmire

Feelgood wrote: »

Alright she's installed (available on Apple Developer Program),
but I dunno how I feel about this one.

First point to note get ready to throw out your magic mouse, Lion pretty
much requires a touchpad to run all the new features. Using the touchpad
on the imac is a bit weird. I'm used to swiping back on the magic
mouse to scroll up but with the touchpad like the MBP you swipe
forward to scroll up. Actually takes some time to get used to!. You CAN
switch on the legacy mode on Lion to use your mouse but you going to miss
out on features.

My imac now mimics IOS, its a bit mental looking!
There are definitely 2 things I can see happening here.

a) OSX is morphing in IOS with heavy dependance on the App Store.

b) Without a shadow of a doubt, there is a touchscreen imac on the way.
I actually keeping touching the imac screen trying to launch apps!.

ummm not sure how I feel about this...I like snow leopard, I don't want to go down the iOS route and I definitely dont want a touch screen desktop.

Its fine sticking to what I have and not upgrading but it seems apple are keen to make whatever set up you have at the moment very outdated pretty soon.

Feelgood

fasty wrote: »

I still haven't got around to installing it. Can you disable the fugly looking iCal UI?

I don't think so mate!. Although I haven't given iCal a good trial just yet.
I will have a look at the settings and get back to you.

ed1604 wrote: »

Hi Feelgood,
will you let us know how you get on using the Touchpad over the course of a few days with Lion.

I will do Ed, I'd say you will get used to it after a few days though. It just seems really strange at first, but then again new user interfaces generally do!.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Jobs has already shot down the idea of a touchscreen Mac. Vertical touchscreens just aren't ergonomically practical. Other computer manufactures will probably waste time with them, but Apple is smart enough to know better. The iOS features are being added to appeal to iPhone users who don't have a Mac. Experienced Mac users are free to ignore them. I'll be sticking with my mouse.

I don't know about that mate, if you play around with the UI, you will see what I mean. Theres definitely something in the pipeline. I think Apple may be heading down the line of one OS fits all kindof thing and having a hybrid of OSX and IOS across all hardware. If you are sticking with the mouse I reckon just stay on Snow Leopard for as long as viably possibly!.

Sad Professor

Feelgood wrote: »

I don't know about that mate, if you play around with the UI, you will see what I mean. Theres definitely something in the pipeline. I think Apple may be heading down the line of one OS fits all kindof thing and having a hybrid of OSX and IOS across all hardware.

Here's what Jobs had to say about touchscreen Macs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeNsqqKadQ4

It's not gonna happen. All we are seeing here with bringing iOS features back to the Mac is the new "halo effect" that Apple hopes is going to increase Mac sales. They are trying to make the Mac more user-friendly in order to appeal to iOS users. These new multi-touch gestures are great, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't mean that Apple want to turn the Mac into a giant iPad.

If you are sticking with the mouse I reckon just stay on Snow Leopard for as long as viably possibly!.

There's plenty of other features in Lion that I'm interested in. AirDrop, Mission Control, Versions, the redesigned Mail, the new iCal, the hopefully more unified UI. There are hundreds of new features and under-the-hood improvements. It's not all multi-touch gestures and fancy stuff. There's no reason not to upgrade to Lion unless you can't afford it or your machine doesn't support it.

cornbb

I think SF hit the nail on the head here:

The iOS features are being added to appeal to iPhone users who don't have a Mac.

That's about as far it will go, IMO. It makes sense to have a degree of consistency across the platforms, but there's no way that OS X will ever be replaced by iOS under the hood - attributes like sandboxing, limited multitasking, secure boot etc. would simply not fly on a desktop OS. Macs are used by far too many professionals/developers/tinkerers/power users for Apple to alienate in such a way.

The new multitouch/fullscreen features are built on top of the "old" SL UI, they don't replace it. They can be ignored by anyone who doesn't like them. Personally I don't see myself using Launchpad - I've also never used Dashboard or Spaces, but it didn't bother me when they were introduced.

opinion guy

cornbb wrote: »

Personally I don't see myself using Launchpad - I've also never used Dashboard or Spaces, but it didn't bother me when they were introduced.

Yeah I've never used Dashboard or Spaces either (primarily because spaces if useless when all the stuff on your desktop is in each space. Linux had a far better 'spaces' type feature way back in the 90's. I might use the Launchpad. I think the mission control looks awesome though. Especialyl with the fullscreen feature

Feelgood

cornbb wrote: »

It makes sense to have a degree of consistency across the platforms, but there's no way that OS X will ever be replaced by iOS under the hood

Ah no I don't think OS X could be replaced under the hood by iOS at all, but rather than iOS features sitting in a layer on top of OS X that you can switch on and off - I can see them being heavily integrated with much onus on the App Store and cloud services given Apples recent investment in the cloud. A hybrid of OS X and iOS.

Personally I don't see myself using Launchpad - I've also never used Dashboard or Spaces, but it didn't bother me when they were introduced.

Agreed spaces and dashboard didn't do much for me either, but launchpad isn't too bad actually, if you are an ipad owner you might like it...

stesh

fasty wrote: »

I still haven't got around to installing it. Can you disable the fugly looking iCal UI?

Has anyone tried to disable the fugly UI through a defaults command?

conor.hogan.2

For once I wish apple copied microsoft and did lion win 8 style where you just mobile style or classic

Using touchscreens on phones and multi touch on the track pads is bad enough, on a desktop.or laptop pity would beven a dizaster

440Hz

I just can't decide if I want to try this or not. If it's not broken... etc. I like Snow Leopard, I think Lion would start to annoy me very quickly.

fasty

I didn't bother updating to Snow Leopard until iOS SDKs required it but for Lion, I'll install it right away on at least one of my machines. Having it distributed via the App Store makes it hard for me to say no!

jack presley

As we have to buy it from the App store there'll probably be no chance to buy multiple versions for a discount.

Sad Professor

jack presley wrote: »

As we have to buy it from the App store there'll probably be no chance to buy multiple versions for a discount.

The version you download from the App Store for €24 will work on up to 5 computers. No need for a family pack anymore.

cornbb

I'll just re-emphasise that the new "iOS-y" features in Lion are another layer on top of what is there already - things such as Mission Control, Launchpad and full screen apps stay out of your way unless explicitly called. The new multitouch gestures and inverted scrolling can all be disabled. These features aren't likely to get in anyone's way.

I don't know why people are talking about touchscreen iMacs and the like when Apple have explicitly ruled them out.

Feelgood

cornbb wrote: »

I don't know why people are talking about touchscreen iMacs and the like when Apple have explicitly ruled them out.

As always Apple rumours get out of hand and most of the time are completely off the mark, but google 'Touchscreen Imac Apple patent' and see what you make of it yourself.

When I saw this last year I said, me bollix but after installing Lion I think there maybe something behind the rumours.

EDIT: Heres the one

the register

Patent

nowayout1

http://www.cultofmac.com/apples-working-hard-to-get-lion-ready-for-touchscreen-imacs-and-macbooks/99877

Check this out his more on apple patents on a touchscreen iMac

conor.hogan.2

Sure Apple and everyone patent lots of things, just in case they ever would want to do it or just in case anyone else does it and they can therefore can a handy bit of cash from it.

has anyone installed this on a few machines?

i know that you'll be able to download Lion on the app store ,
and then you can install it across all your machines etc.
but,
i've an iMac and Macbook,

does that mean after buying it and downloading it on, say the iMac,
that once i log into the App Store on the MacBook that i'm going to have to
re-download the the whole 4GB(whatever size its gonna be) again.

i presume some peoples on here might have more that 2 macs,
so i can imagine thats gonna be a pain, especially if you're on 3mb
broadband like me.

p.s.
Feelgood, how's the hand coping after a week of the trackpad?

aidan_walsh

Because its only being sent to Developers right now (who would be well accustomed to this kind of thing) thats not really clear at the moment. It would probably mean an update to the App Store application to allow any media to be burned or copied accessibly, so its possible that it will need a download on each machine.

Sad Professor

There's already an unofficial workaround for burning a Lion boot disc. It's very straightforward. There's a dmg file inside the package contents of the Lion installer application. You just burn it.

But I'm sure Apple will offer an official way to do the same thing in the final release. Even if they don't, they can't stop you from copying the installer application over to your other Macs.

Sad Professor

yea, i know the developers only have it at the moment but i was just wondering if they had been given any particular way of downloading it for multiple devices.

and yea, Sad, i read about creating the burn version, and as you said

Sad Professor wrote: »

But I'm sure Apple will offer an official way to do the same thing in the final release. Even if they don't, they can't stop you from copying the installer application over to your other Macs.

Not long to go now either way

scoobyjack

cornbb wrote: »

I'll just re-emphasise that the new "iOS-y" features in Lion are another layer on top of what is there already - things such as Mission Control, Launchpad and full screen apps stay out of your way unless explicitly called. The new multitouch gestures and inverted scrolling can all be disabled. These features aren't likely to get in anyone's way.

My fear though is that some time in the not so far away future, Apple will make "consumer" grade laptops behave like iPads with keyboards... then there'll be another price-point for those who want the "enterprise" features of MacOSX... ie in the €2500 range.

Lion could be the first step in that direction.

Sad Professor

scoobyjack wrote: »

My fear though is that some time in the not so far away future, Apple will make "consumer" grade laptops behave like iPads with keyboards... then there'll be another price-point for those who want the "enterprise" features of MacOSX... ie in the €2500 range.

Lion could be the first step in that direction.

So basically you think Apple are going to deliberately kill the Mac and force all their users to switch to their competitors? Why would they want to do this? Why not just say "Hey guys, we're not making Macs anymore, get an iPad instead, thanks"? It would have the same effect.

Look, you aren't the only one who thinks this, but you are not thinking this through. What you are suggesting makes no sense. If the Mac has a future it has a future as a Mac, not as a giant iPad.

cornbb

scoobyjack wrote: »

My fear though is that some time in the not so far away future, Apple will make "consumer" grade laptops behave like iPads with keyboards... then there'll be another price-point for those who want the "enterprise" features of MacOSX... ie in the €2500 range.

Lion could be the first step in that direction.

I think Apple are already marketing MacBook Airs as "iPads with keyboards". Yet they run OSX, not iOS. I don't doubt that they'll continue to push iOS's look-and-feel into OSX but I don't believe that OSX will suffer, aesthetically or functionally, from that.

As for charging a whopping 2,500 premium for fully-featured OS X, I don't think that's Apple's style. They've never charged more than $100 for a major OS revision. They are out to make money from hardware, not software, that's always been the case.

scoobyjack

cornbb wrote: »

As for charging a whopping 2,500 premium for fully-featured OS X, I don't think that's Apple's style. They've never charged more than $100 for a major OS revision. They are out to make money from hardware, not software, that's always been the case.

The €2500 doesn't refer to the cost of OSX, but the cost of a higher-end "enterprise" machine marketed to run it.

Anyway, like I say, it's my fear, not my prediction, and I really hope it doesn't come true.

Sad Professor

It won't. I'd be more worried about Apple abandoning the Mac entirely. Although that's not likely in the foreseeable future either.

Johnmb

Sad Professor wrote: »

It won't. I'd be more worried about Apple abandoning the Mac entirely. Although that's not likely in the foreseeable future either.

I don't think that will happen anytime soon either. At least not as long as we have computers as they currently are. Apple sees the PC/Mac as the truck, compared to the iPad car. That's fine, they'll still prefer to see people use their "trucks" rather than the PC version, and no matter how good the iPad becomes at creating stuff, the good old truck will still be needed to create the big stuff, including Apps for the "car".

conor.hogan.2

As long as they need macs to develop for iOS they will be around, as long as Android doesnt bite too much in to their share they will also be around.

A few people might switch to ipads etc if they killed or crippled the mac, but most would go Linux or win7/8. I know i would.

Sad Professor

Johnmb wrote: »

I don't think that will happen anytime soon either. At least not as long as we have computers as they currently are. Apple sees the PC/Mac as the truck, compared to the iPad car. That's fine, they'll still prefer to see people use their "trucks" rather than the PC version, and no matter how good the iPad becomes at creating stuff, the good old truck will still be needed to create the big stuff, including Apps for the "car".

Yeah, and in fact the truck analogy used by Jobs was very telling and proves that they do see iOS and the Mac as separate entities. You can't turn a truck into a car and expect it to still appeal to truck users. But iOS's existence is already a tribute to Apple's understanding of the difference between PCs and mobile devices.

Sad Professor

Has Apple dropped the "Mac" from Mac OS X? Would never have noticed this had Gruber not pointed it out, but he's right. Everywhere on the Apple site refers to 10.7 as "OS X Lion". There's no mention of "Mac OS X" that I can find. But as he also notes, they probably only added the "Mac" in first place because of the Macintosh clones.

Can anyone with the latest developer preview confirm whether it still says Mac OS X on the boot and login screen?

cornbb

Here's the new "About this Mac" UI:

http://www.macdaddynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/about01.png

conor.hogan.2

Gruber is great, but he is very hit and miss. Half of DF should just go in his twitter feed tbh.

whiterebel

cornbb wrote: »

I think Apple are already marketing MacBook Airs as "iPads with keyboards". Yet they run OSX, not iOS. I don't doubt that they'll continue to push iOS's look-and-feel into OSX but I don't believe that OSX will suffer, aesthetically or functionally, from that.

As for charging a whopping 2,500 premium for fully-featured OS X, I don't think that's Apple's style. They've never charged more than $100 for a major OS revision. They are out to make money from hardware, not software, that's always been the case.

???? I've paid for quite a few over £100 since OS8.......

Sad Professor

Yeah, I've spent plenty on OS upgrades over the years. From another thread:

Sad Professor wrote: »

Cost of previous OS X upgrades that I've had to fork out for:

10.0 - I can't remember, but it was definitely €130+
10.1 - "free" but I think I had to pay for postage from Apple (it was CD only)
10.2 - €169 (seriously)
10.3 - €129
10.4 - €129
10.5 - €129
10.6 - €29 (I actually got this for €9 via the up-to-date program)

I can't remember how much OS 8 and 9 cost.

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, I've spent plenty on OS upgrades over the years. From another thread:


I can't remember how much OS 8 and 9 cost.

8 and 9 were up around the £100 mark as well, AFAIR

tylerdurden94

Quick question, what way is this gonna come in from the App Store? Will it be a DMG file that we can use time and time again if we ever wanted to do a clean install of the OS or whats what?

Sad Professor

There is a dmg file inside the installer application that you download. The current installer won't burn it for you, but once you take it from the package contents you can do it yourself using Disk Utility. This seems to be the case with the developer preview anyway.

tylerdurden94

Sad Professor wrote: »

There is a dmg file inside the installer application that you download. The current installer won't burn it for you, but once you take it from the package contents you can do it yourself using Disk Utility. This seems to be the case with the developer preview anyway.

Excellent cheers for the heads up.

Willbbz

It won't feel right using that snow leopard wallpaper

Sean Quagmire

When you do an upgrade, do you get a new 'start up' video after installation?

54kroc

When's Lion due out?

Sad Professor

July.

Losty Dublin

Sad Professor wrote: »

July.

It's July in less than half an hour:)

stimpson

Rumour and speculation at the moment, but I heard 18th July.

Sad Professor

I've also read that it will be out next Wednesday (July 6).

Usually, however, when Apple say July, etc, they mean the very last day of that month. But we'll we see.

Padgeman

Lion GM is out! (Build 11A511). Won't be too long now, assuming there's only 1 GM this time around :rolleyes:

Richard

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

For once I wish apple copied microsoft and did lion win 8 style where you just mobile style or classic

Using touchscreens on phones and multi touch on the track pads is bad enough, on a desktop.or laptop pity would beven a dizaster

Sean Quagmire wrote: »

When you do an upgrade, do you get a new 'start up' video after installation?

Apparently Lion doesn't have the startup video