Mr. Pat "Europe" Cox considering going for Irish President...

HellFireClub

Apparently the man who gets wheeled out to threaten us every time we give Europe a firm no at the ballot box, as to the consequences for us if we dare to do it a second time, is going on the FG party ticket for the Irish presidency...

I personally think that the appearance of this guy on the national scene at the moment is something that is firstly, deeply offensive and is something that is inherently anti-democratic.

He has weighted into a national referendum debate not once but twice when the electorate had spoken by way of a referendum and I don't accept that this guy wasn't absolutely central to all the necessary political movements of the day that were obviously going on in the background, that were necessary for us to be told that we had to vote again when we had rejected EU treaties.

Make no mistake about it, it seems to me that the priorities of Pat Cox attach to the elite Europe first and Ireland second.

Where are all those jobs that you said we would be voting for on Lisbon II Pat??? Maybe you should answer that before you put your name on any ballot sheet in this country for the time being!

JonathanAnon

Mary O'Rourke described him as "smug" today.. and for once I agree with her.. he has a very aloof, superior manner about him.. I've heard him contribute to panel shows recently where he has given his analysis of the whole banking/bailout/ECB/IMF situation, and he comes across like a school teacher scolding the bad Irish children for behaving badly ....

I certainly would not vote for him. .

pog it

Haha what a joke. He hasn't a hope.

HellFireClub

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Mary O'Rourke described him as "smug" today.. and for once I agree with her.. he has a very aloof, superior manner about him.. I've heard him contribute to panel shows recently where he has given his analysis of the whole banking/bailout/ECB/IMF situation, and he comes across like a school teacher scolding the bad Irish children for behaving badly ....

I certainly would not vote for him. .

Couldn't agree more, he always seems to be giving off this impression as if he is trying to communicate the following, "look, you don't need to concern yourself with the issue or the debate, the country needs to vote this particular way on this or that"...

It's the most offensive way to treat the public I think and he has been proven to be completely WRONG on our membership of the single currency. This mug told us it was central to our future wellbeing as a nation to embrace the Euro and embracing the further integration of Europe and look at the state of the place now, our economy was never suited for the single currency Euro project, we should have copied the prudence of the UK instead of being the people pleasers of Europe as recommended by Pat Cox.

jhegarty

pog it wrote: »

Haha what a joke. He hasn't a hope.

Depends how many times we vote

My name is URL

pog it wrote: »

Haha what a joke. He hasn't a hope.

He's currently favourite on Paddy Power - http://www.paddypower.com/bet/other-politics/next-irish-president?ev_oc_grp_ids=33552

God knows what they're basing that on, though.

I'd hate to see him as president. He's so blinkered by the EU that he'll never see that the direction it's headed in is not a good one, and certainly wouldn't admit it if he did. If it comes to it I'll vote tactically just to keep him out of office!

P. Breathnach

HellFireClub wrote: »

...
I personally think that the appearance of this guy on the national scene at the moment is something that is firstly, deeply offensive and is something that is inherently anti-democratic.

It is for you to decide what you consider offensive, but I would like you to explain how his possible candidacy for the presidency is anti-democratic. I incline towards the view that it would be anti-democratic to prevent any person seeking a nomination.

He has weighted into a national referendum debate not once but twice when the electorate had spoken by way of a referendum and I don't accept that this guy wasn't absolutely central to all the necessary political movements of the day that were obviously going on in the background, that were necessary for us to be told that we had to vote again when we had rejected EU treaties.

So an elected public representative should be precluded from participating in debates on matters of national importance?

If he is nominated, you are free to give him your lowest preference. That's it.

Dob74

HellFireClub wrote: »

Apparently the man who gets wheeled out to threaten us every time we give Europe a firm no at the ballot box, as to the consequences for us if we dare to do it a second time, is going on the FG party ticket for the Irish presidency...

I personally think that the appearance of this guy on the national scene at the moment is something that is firstly, deeply offensive and is something that is inherently anti-democratic.

He has weighted into a national referendum debate not once but twice when the electorate had spoken by way of a referendum and I don't accept that this guy wasn't absolutely central to all the necessary political movements of the day that were obviously going on in the background, that were necessary for us to be told that we had to vote again when we had rejected EU treaties.

Make no mistake about it, it seems to me that the priorities of Pat Cox attach to the elite Europe first and Ireland second.

Where are all those jobs that you said we would be voting for on Lisbon II Pat??? Maybe you should answer that before you put your name on any ballot sheet in this country for the time being!

Dont worry all his buddies in the media will give him an easy ride.
Cox is a career oppurtuntist, hope he runs and gets his ass kicked.

Kinski

My name is URL wrote: »

He's currently favourite on Paddy Power

God knows what they're basing that on, though.

The way people are betting.

Whoever secures the Fine Gael nomination is bound to be in with an excellent chance. I'd hate to see Cox as President, though.

I actually quite liked the idea of appointing Seamus Heaney as an all-party candidate. I appreciate that some people would have felt that wasn't very democratic, but I would have preferred seeing an individual I have some respect for being handed a largely ceremonial job to seeing someone like Cox being elected.

HellFireClub

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It is for you to decide what you consider offensive, but I would like you to explain how his possible candidacy for the presidency is anti-democratic. I incline towards the view that it would be anti-democratic to prevent any person seeking a nomination.

He of course has the right to put himself up for election like anyone else. The bit I don't understand is how on earth he has the brass neck to put a picture of himself on a ballot paper.

He has been wheeled onto the national stage on two occasions by the Irish political leadership of the day, to basically threaten the Irish people with consequences that we would not find savoury at all, if we as a country did not row in behind the vision that he had for Ireland in Europe and accept Lisbon.

We don't need another "yes man" in any political office in this country, let him head off back to Europe, he has nothing to offer this country.

loldog

I don't want this Bilderberger in the Áras. He's worked for decades to undermine and dilute Irish sovereignty. Totally inappropriate.

.

Einhard

HellFireClub wrote: »

I personally think that the appearance of this guy on the national scene at the moment is something that is firstly, deeply offensive and is something that is inherently anti-democratic.

I'm with PB on this one. How on earth is it anti-democratic to seek the mandate of the people? If anything, it's the very essence of democracy.

As for him being offensive, that's your opinion, but we have men in the Dail who ran weapons for terrorist groups, and apologised for their murderous actions, so forgive me if Cox's smugness doesn't provoke fits of outrage in me.

HellFireClub wrote: »

He has been wheeled onto the national stage on two occasions by the Irish political leadership of the day, to basically threaten the Irish people with consequences that we would not find savoury at all, if we as a country did not row in behind the vision that he had for Ireland in Europe and accept Lisbon.

We don't need another "yes man" in any political office in this country, let him head off back to Europe, he has nothing to offer this country.

Are you stating that Pat Cox shouldn't have the gall to stand before the people, on the basis that his opinions differ from your own? Now that's anti-democratic.

Also, I voted yes for Lisbon. Twice. Does that make me a "yes man" too, and if so should I be included on the political blacklist?

HellFireClub

Einhard wrote: »

I'm with PB on this one. How on earth is it anti-democratic to seek the mandate of the people? If anything, it's the very essence of democracy.

As for him being offensive, that's your opinion, but we have men in the Dail who ran weapons for terrorist groups, and apologised for their murderous actions, so forgive me if Cox's smugness doesn't provoke fits of outrage in me.

Are you stating that Pat Cox shouldn't have the gall to stand before the people, on the basis that his opinions differ from your own? Now that's anti-democratic.

Also, I voted yes for Lisbon. Twice. Does that make me a "yes man" too, and if so should I be included on the political blacklist?

I can't understand how someone can have the sheer neck that this guy has, to think that it is credible that he can actually get elected to the highest office in the land.

This guy is an Ál a Carte democrat. When his political masters in Europe tell him that we have to vote again on Lisbon, he lands back over here and takes ownership of the objective of getting Lisbon II passed. Then he has the neck to put himself forward for president!?!?! What if he is not happy with the outcome of the presidential election, will we be instructed that we will be voting again until we get the answer that he wants from us?!?

This is what I'm talking about when I say he is an anti-democrat. Being a democrat involves some degree of humility, and accepting the answer that you get, this guy has a track record in completely dismissing what the people of this country think and how on earth he has the neck to even consider himself for the office of president of this country is something that genuinely mystifies me.

We don't need any more gobshítes who have demonstrated that they had it completely wrong, we should never have joined the Euro, but at the time, we ran with it because people like Pat Cox just couldn't stop repeating the mantra that somehow we would be a stronger country if we just ran along with the EU and joined a single currency and that we'd be offending all the bigger guys in the room if we adopted any more cautious an approach to the adoption of the Euro currency.

At least in the UK they took some kind of a technical monetary approach to it in terms of policy and decided that they needed certain criteria to be met before they would change their currency.

But no we couldn't do that over here, because we had the likes of Pat Cox putting the pressure on everyone in the media, making out that we would be somehow perceived as deviants in Europe if we didn't go along with what everyone else was doing and joining up to the single currency.

And now look at where we are, we got swamped with cheap credit, couldn't control our property prices because we had surrendered control of our interest rates, now we can't devalue our currency because we surrendered that as well, not because it was the right and proper thing to do, because it very clearly wasn't, but because we had gobshítes like Pat Cox who told us that this was the right thing to do when it was the wrong thing go to, for us anyway. So we said yes to be popular, because Pat Cox once again came out and started waving his finger and telling us how we would offend Europe if we "snubbed" the new currency...

later12

I am with Mary O Rourke on this. The fact that Cox thinks he would drum up anything but anti European sentiment at this stage is slightly amusing. The notion that he could win is distressingly detached from reality.

The IT has an interesting take on Cox support within FG

Several Fine Gael members, speaking on the basis of anonymity, said Mr Cox may not be as popular with the party’s members as he is with the Fine Gael leadership, for whom he is seen as the favoured candidate.


That was acknowledged by a Minister last night who accepted that county councillors and executive council members may not support him. The Minister pointed out that TDs and Senators would be the key in deciding the presidency and said they were likely to vote with the leadership.

cbreeze

Pat Cox, used to be in politics?, met him once, boring little t*t

Macha

cbreeze wrote: »

Pat Cox, used to be in politics?, met him once, boring little t*t

My measure of a politician isn't how interesting I find them personally, but how good they are at the job. I wish more people would focus on the characteristics that actually matter in a politician, or in this case a president, rather than indulging in personal jibes.

One political analyst said that Irish people are more likely to vote for someone they like but disagree with than vote for the person they dislike but agree with. Plus ca change.

HellFireClub

Macha wrote: »

My measure of a politician isn't how interesting I find them personally, but how good they are at the job. I wish more people would focus on the characteristics that actually matter in a politician, or in this case a president, rather than indulging in personal jibes.

One political analyst said that Irish people are more likely to vote for someone they like but disagree with than vote for the person they dislike but agree with. Plus ca change.

I'd be hoping myself that their ability to get something right once in their career and maybe have something besides a portfolio of absolute failure to put on the table as their CV might be the platform that they put themselves forward on. Cox can't do that, Mr. Europe has brought us to a place where we have lovely shaped banana's but our economy is absolutely bamboozled because we ran with what he said we should do just to be populist, and by that I mean further rapid integration with Europe just so he could feel better and more loved over in Brussels.

I've always found this guys language to be dismissive and completely patronising to Irish people.

Macha

HellFireClub wrote: »

I'd be hoping myself that their ability to get something right once in their career and maybe have something besides a portfolio of absolute failure to put on the table as their CV might be the platform that they put themselves forward on. Cox can't do that, Mr. Europe has brought us to a place where we have lovely shaped banana's but our economy is absolutely bamboozled because we ran with what he said we should do just to be populist, and by that I mean further rapid integration with Europe just so he could feel better and more loved over in Brussels.

I've always found this guys language to be dismissive and completely patronising to Irish people.

How is the current economic crisis the fault of Pat Cox? Rapid integration with Europe opened up the biggest markets for Ireland. I think the Irish Exporters Assocation would find plenty wrong with your analysis of what impact integration with Europe had on the Irish economy. Let's try not to find a non-Irish scape goat for the problems that were of our own making.

When Pat Cox was President of European Parliament, Ireland's standing in the world and in Europe was a lot better than it is today. I'm not advocating that anybody vote for Cox but if you're not going to vote for him, at least do it for valid reasons.

P. Breathnach

I think we have got the message, HellFireClub: if Cox is nominated, you won't vote for him.

HellFireClub

Macha wrote: »

How is the current economic crisis the fault of Pat Cox? Rapid integration with Europe opened up the biggest markets for Ireland. I think the Irish Exporters Assocation would find plenty wrong with your analysis of what impact integration with Europe had on the Irish economy. Let's try not to find a non-Irish scape goat for the problems that were of our own making.

When Pat Cox was President of European Parliament, Ireland's standing in the world and in Europe was a lot better than it is today. I'm not advocating that anybody vote for Cox but if you're not going to vote for him, at least do it for valid reasons.

What we have experienced in this country now is a result of complete policy failure. There have been several strands to this failure, some domestic, some international. There can be no doubt whatsoever that us being tied into a single currency was not the right course of action for us at the time, but I clearly recall Pat Cox telling us all otherwise, because he was on a mission to get his little "Ireland is up there with the big boys now we're in the Euro", VANITY PROJECT, adopted as Irish public policy. Just like Lisbon I and II, there was patronising of people who dissented, there was an arrogance about the debate from day 1, there was an approach along the lines of: "Look here's what is happening, we know what is best, so just get on with ratifying it or accepting it"...

Our domestic economy is shattered, again, not all the fault of Pat Cox but the systemic domestic policy faults that occured through our self abuse of our own property market, were all possible because we got swamped with cheap credit and we had no real control over our interest rates.

In the UK, they had the cop on to look a little further down the road and ask what would they do if they needed to devalue their currency or have control over their interest rates and after a logical and vanity free debate on the matter, they decided against joining the Euro, but as usual back on Craggy Island here, the order of the day was vanity before sanity, all fuelled and driven by big ego's over in Brussels and a "people pleaser" mentality back at home from our domestic politicians, with Pat Cox as the self appointed middle man as I recall...

Einhard

HellFireClub wrote: »

Our domestic economy is shattered, again, not all the fault of Pat Cox but the systemic domestic policy faults that occured through our self abuse of our own property market, were all possible because we got swamped with cheap credit and we had no real control over our interest rates.

There were several other measured that the government could have implemented to prevent the market overheating as it did, and they chose not to. Indeed, Ahern's administrations commissioned several reports on how to deal with what it acknowledged was an emerging problem, and then proceeded to ignore the recommendations, because they would be politically difficult to implement. It's absolutely absurd to blame Cox or the EU for getting us into this mess, and to be honest, your opposition to him seems to speak more to your own antagonism towards the EU than to any legitimate criticism of Cox. He's an avid supporter of integration, and thus he's attracted your considerable ire. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I wish you'd just come out and state it plainly.

bmaxi

Cox is the ultimate carpetbagger, he would bring nothing to the office of President. With Mary Robinson it was hoped that the office would emerge from the era of jaded old political hacks spending a few years in the Aras to bolster their pension, Cox would be Hillery Mk 2.

HellFireClub

Einhard wrote: »

There were several other measured that the government could have implemented to prevent the market overheating as it did, and they chose not to. Indeed, Ahern's administrations commissioned several reports on how to deal with what it acknowledged was an emerging problem, and then proceeded to ignore the recommendations, because they would be politically difficult to implement. It's absolutely absurd to blame Cox or the EU for getting us into this mess, and to be honest, your opposition to him seems to speak more to your own antagonism towards the EU than to any legitimate criticism of Cox. He's an avid supporter of integration, and thus he's attracted your considerable ire. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I wish you'd just come out and state it plainly.

Eh nooooo! We voted twice here and stated DEMOCRATICALLY, that we did not wish to integrate further with Europe. It was obvious that a "one size fits all", interest rate was not going to work, it hasn't worked, but as with everything in this country, someone's vanity project was not going to be derailed by a little thing called democracy.

Every time I've seen Pat Cox do a runner from Brussels and barge into the national debate in this country, as our EU, "know it all", he has been extremely patronising and arrogant, he has not even tried to hide the fact that he has been on a mission to get us to vote a certain way, usually on a second attempt, by telling us that we simply HAVE to vote a certain way, it is not acceptable to vote any other way, that we can't be offending people with our opinions at a ballot box.

Then the other day he was back again waxing lyrical about how we were no longer seen as the movers and shakers in the EU, how we used to be up there in the thick of things in the middle of Brussels with our big swinging d*cks telling everyone how great we were and how everyone should copy what we've done with our economy, sure aren't we just brilliant altogether???"...

The policy failures that occured domestically here I don't think could have been caused in the first place if we didn't hand over so much control over our core monetary competencies... European integration has not worked, at least economically it has not worked, so we need to identify who has been central to this vanity project to push this European "love-in", without properly assessing the risks that came with this integration.

I'm all for integration, but only when the risks associated with such huge change are understood and properly managed. This EU integration that I've seen has been the worst demonstration of vanity over sanity that I've certainly ever seen and I'm amazed at how someone who has been the most central person to this policy failure in this country can think that they would be wanted for the office of President of this country...

bijapos

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0607/breaking46.html

According to the Irish Times he has applied to join FG with the intention of running for president in November. He has experience, ran for the PD's and according to the IT he ran for FF as well in 1979. So this is the third political party he has been a member of, admittedly three parties with similar policies but its so obviously opportunistic its laughable.

HellFireClub

bijapos wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0607/breaking46.html

According to the Irish Times he has applied to join FG with the intention of running for president in November. He has experience, ran for the PD's and according to the IT he ran for FF as well in 1979. So this is the third political party he has been a member of, admittedly three parties with similar policies but its so obviously opportunistic its laughable.

It's absolutely disgusting to see it, this man's ego seems to be beyond any restraint, just like he tried to tell people here that they were not that important and just a method of rubberstamping at the ballot box, decisions that had already been made elsewhere, here he is again just trying to sign up to any party left that will take him, he reckons he's as good as elected, he reckons he can join FG and then just walk the election, not that FG or any other political party have put forward any candidate that would be worthy of the position in any event.

As I said, the last thing we need is another EU bullshítter who has notions of political entitlement in his head...

When the EU come up with a credible plan that will allowe our economy to recover instead of pushing this private bank bad debt onto taxpayers and pushing the country further and further into recession, and people further and further into austerity and economic depression, then we should maybe listen to Pat Cox, but not until then...

Het-Field

Macha wrote: »

How is the current economic crisis the fault of Pat Cox? Rapid integration with Europe opened up the biggest markets for Ireland. I think the Irish Exporters Assocation would find plenty wrong with your analysis of what impact integration with Europe had on the Irish economy. Let's try not to find a non-Irish scape goat for the problems that were of our own making.

When Pat Cox was President of European Parliament, Ireland's standing in the world and in Europe was a lot better than it is today. I'm not advocating that anybody vote for Cox but if you're not going to vote for him, at least do it for valid reasons.

First, I would like to state that I believe Pat Cox would make an outstanding President. The role and functions of the Irish President are unlike those of any other elected official. As such, the personal characteristics must be considered. We need a steady handed individual, who is somewhat Independent. Mary McAleese has done a fine job as President, simply by being non-interventionist, and performing the representative functions of the Presidency. Cox would perform that role.

However, I would have to disagree with you to the extent that you suggest that we may be scapegoating outside forces for Ireland's woes. There remains very few people who believe that the first 10 years of the Euro has been a belt and braces success. Access to these markets created a major moral hazard for financial institutions in the various member states to lend and borrow. Banks in Germany and France willingly lent crazy sums of money to this nation, in a manner which was not permissible pre 1999. The Eurozone made this possible, and created this moral hazard. Lessons have been learned, and I dont believe the Euro project is a dead duck, however, the existence of the Eurozone, and all it entails, must be seen as a key cause of of our current financial woes.

later12

Einhard wrote: »

He's an avid supporter of integration, and thus he's attracted your considerable ire. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I wish you'd just come out and state it plainly.

I really dislike this sort of line. It is incorrect to imply a relationship between Euroscepticism and opposition to Pat Cox in the way that the poster is doing just as it is incorrect to suggest that opposition to David Norris = homophobic vatican I enthusiast.

I am fully supportive of European integration - particularly in an economic sense - and to the point of casting off our sovereignty (whatever that is, anyway). Yet I find Pat Cox and his attitude sickingly condescending and in fact out of sync with Irish society, and I dislike and disagree with his political philosophy.

It is perfectly reasonable to be pro-EU/ Eurozone and very much anti-Pat Cox.

P. Breathnach

later10 wrote: »

I really dislike this sort of line. It is incorrect to imply a relationship between Euroscepticism and opposition to Pat Cox in the way that the poster is doing just as it is incorrect to suggest that opposition to David Norris = homophobic vatican I enthusiast.

In the case of HellFireClub, I think what Einhard says is self-evidently true. Eight posts in this short thread, and every one of them is an attack on Cox principally on the basis of Cox's support for the European project.

...
It is perfectly reasonable to be pro-EU/ Eurozone and very much anti-Pat Cox.

That is true, but it's not HellFireClub's agenda.

reprazant

Good to see that this country's current economic problems are primarily the fault of the EU and the Euro and not in any way our political parties, and we as the people who elected them, who led this country to the basket it currently is.

Of course, I am sure the EU was also a terrible thing while we riding the gravy train we received from those evil people in the EU.

HellFireClub

P. Breathnach wrote: »

In the case of HellFireClub, I think what Einhard says is self-evidently true. Eight posts in this short thread, and every one of them is an attack on Cox principally on the basis of Cox's support for the European project.



That is true, but it's not HellFireClub's agenda.

The policies that Pat Cox has nothing less than pushed upon this nation by virtue of him pursuing his own particular EU vanity project, HAVE BEEN AN ABJECT FAILURE!!!

There is no other outcome, we can't run the country/turn the lights on without meeting IMF/EU conditions every 4 weeks for the purposes of been given another cheque to run the place for the next 4 weeks!!!

The EU integration project, has no far been a complete and utter economic failure. Not because there was anything wrong with the concept of EU integration, (it's actually something I support), but because an absolute and utter balls has been made of how integration was managed.

Cox has been absolutely central to the pushing of this failed economic project onto this country, on that basis the guy should be spending more time over in his little Brussels headquarters working out a way to undo the massive economic damage that this country has suffered as a result of his half thought out vanity project being flung at this country.

Cox can't even realise that the "boom" we had here wasn't a boom at all but a huge big bubble, a debt bubble that is being hung around the necks of every citizen in this state now, at the sheer insistence of Pat's buddies over in the EU.

As I said, he should stay over in the EU and work at sorting out the utterly disasterous economic project that he not just recommended but actually foisted upon this country. I can imagine that he has no credibility left over in Brussels at this stage, hence why he is back here now, applying to FG in an attempt to land himself a job that could only be described as the last of the cushy numbers...

What was needed for this kind of large scale economic integration to work was a huge degree of caution. But there was no prudence or caution now as we have come to learn. And don't tell me it wasn't big banking interests and the likes that lobbied for "whatever you're having yourself" style regulation. Cox was central to all of this in my view...

the realpigiron

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I think we have got the message, HellFireClub: if Cox is nominated, you won't vote for him.

Can I ask you, are you a Fine Gaeler? If so, is it the case that you will vote for anybody that FG puts forward?

I really think FG are reading the electorate wrong if they think that Pat Cox can win a Presidential race. Even back in the day when FF were popular in government with Ahern as leader giving out goodies to the unions and builders etc., they still lost the first Nice Referendum. Pat Cox's profile is that of a Europhile.

Most elections in politics have an element of popularity contest about them, the Presidency even more so. Pat Cox is hardly a popular public figure now is he?

It appears this is part of a deal done between himself and Fine Gael for services rendered. Cox was involved in drawing up the programme for government after the last GE. Also FG may think Ireland needs to provide a further sop to the Europeans by electing a Eurotron as President.

I don't really know what is behind FG backing Cox for President, whatever it is it WON'T work. Despite paddy power's current odds, Pat Cox has NO Chance of winning a presidential contest.

Einhard

later10 wrote: »

I really dislike this sort of line. It is incorrect to imply a relationship between Euroscepticism and opposition to Pat Cox in the way that the poster is doing just as it is incorrect to suggest that opposition to David Norris = homophobic vatican I enthusiast.

I wasn't doing anything of the sort. I was implying a relationship between HellFireClubs disdain for Pat Cox and his disdain for the European project as its currently constitued, based as much on the poster's previous history, as his posts in this particular thread.

P. Breathnach

the realpigiron wrote: »

Can I ask you, are you a Fine Gaeler?

No. I have no party affiliation.

If so, is it the case that you will vote for anybody that FG puts forward?

Obviously if I have no party affiliation, then it is not to be expected that I would vote for a particular person simply because a party nominated that person. You have no basis to suppose that I might for Cox.

I really think FG are reading the electorate wrong if they think that Pat Cox can win a Presidential race.

I think you might be right in that.

Even back in the day when FF were popular in government with Ahern as leader giving out goodies to the unions and builders etc., they still lost the first Nice Referendum. Pat Cox's profile is that of a Europhile.

I don't think that being pro-Europe would necessarily cost anybody the presidency.

Most elections in politics have an element of popularity contest about them, the Presidency even more so. Pat Cox is hardly a popular public figure now is he?

He has some popularity.

the realpigiron

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I don't think that being pro-Europe would necessarily cost anybody the presidency.

I don't think it will help. I reckon there's a strong ant-Europe sentiment in the electorate right now. And especially in an election of little consequence like the Presidency, being viewed as pro-Europe will be a disadvantage. This would also apply to McGuinness if FG run her.

He has some popularity.

Not enough to win a popularity contest like the Presidential race, I would submit.

I'm interested in what Fine Gaelers around here think about Fine Gael parachuting Pat Cox in for the nomination.

moceri

Pat has many Irons in the Fire. He lobbies for Big Business Interests in Europe, shaping policy of direct benefit to them:
Microsoft, Pfizer, Digital Europe and APCO

http://blog.brusselssunshine.eu/2009/09/commission-refuses-access-to-pat-coxs.html

Closer to home Pat Cox sits on the Board of Tiger Developments, a Property Company run by Cork Builder Micheal "helicopter" O'Flynn.

http://www.personallyspeaking.ie/pat_cox_146.html

I think Micheal O'Flynn was a bit "tongue in cheek" when he coined this name:
http://www.tigerdevelopments.co.uk/thegroup.html

.....oh the Irony of it all!!!

Michael, incidentally also sits on the planning advisory Committee of Cork County Council - like putting Foxes on a committe to advise farmers about chicken security.

and people wonder how this country is so Fúcked up...........

RandomName2

HellFireClub wrote: »

Apparently the man who gets wheeled out to threaten us every time we give Europe a firm no at the ballot box, as to the consequences for us if we dare to do it a second time, is going on the FG party ticket for the Irish presidency...

I personally think that the appearance of this guy on the national scene at the moment is something that is firstly, deeply offensive and is something that is inherently anti-democratic.

He has weighted into a national referendum debate not once but twice when the electorate had spoken by way of a referendum and I don't accept that this guy wasn't absolutely central to all the necessary political movements of the day that were obviously going on in the background, that were necessary for us to be told that we had to vote again when we had rejected EU treaties.

Make no mistake about it, it seems to me that the priorities of Pat Cox attach to the elite Europe first and Ireland second.

Where are all those jobs that you said we would be voting for on Lisbon II Pat??? Maybe you should answer that before you put your name on any ballot sheet in this country for the time being!

To be fair I don't think Pat Cox is himself is out of work, so his message in relation to Lisbon was partially accurate.

Moreover, would we really be ready to give him the ammunition to call us idiots if we reject his presidential bid (provided he gets the nomination)? I can only assume that he would pay no heed to what the public had to say on the matter if it didn't go his way.

Oddly enough I would consider voting Gay Mitchell - a Europhile, sure, but not so sullied in terms of political pedigree, or aggressive in terms of campaigns against his own people.