Open competition in away club: Not in prizes despite a winning score

gerire

2 man open rumble on Friday, wont name the course atm, It was just one of those days where we clicked and dovetailed very well.

1 man to score on the odds, both on the evens and we had a score of 63 points. Friday being the nice day we went back to the beer garden awaiting a phone call, no call came and the next day i made a few enquiries.

Pro shop had no results and were very short with me
Bar staff had results and told me 64 won, so i ask did we come second or were there a couple of 64's to which i was told 62 was second.
At this stage he said there was nothing he could do; it was an open week so i asked would there be someone from committee in that evening doing saturday cards.

I was told there would be, so i gave him me number to be rang........ no phone call.
Have tried the same on Sunday, no joy making contact with anyone just keep being told no-one is available.

oh yeah, and no results available online either

What are my steps from here? Any advise?

BigChap1759

I think you're being a little impatient

I would give them a week to get the results together etc

Woodgate

Would agree with BigChap, you need to relax, in most clubs this is done by Handicap/Competition secretary who is not employed by the club to be there the whole time to answer calls, I'm sure he'll have results etc.. all done in good time and if you featured you'll get your prize. Just wait a whil, give the guy a chance.

k.p.h

Yeah I'm with the lads on this one. I was inquiring about scores coming back with one of the lads at my club and I was informed that usually takes a while since people are not employed to do it. So probably what will happen is someone will sit down during the week and do the cards and you will get a call. No panic.

aster99

If they said 62 was second, perhaps there was a error with your card. U certain it was filled in correctly and signed?

killbillvol2

Any club running an Open Week should have results on the day. Sponsors like their prizes to be presented and visitors may not be in the area later in the week.

gerire

Normally it wouldn't bother me but the barman said he had a print out of the results and was reading off them.

Card was filled out. Double checked. And phone number added.

Just rang again and they say to contact the office in morning....

david

DQ for no handicaps or signatures on the card?

ssbob

Did you ring?

Eric the Eagle

The results are up on their website now.

64 pts won it and 62 pts was second.

gerire

Did you ring

awaiting a clarification phone call from competition sec.

DQ for no handicaps or signatures on the card?

H/C's and signature from player and marker there

davo10

gerire, have you both paid your membership?, in order to have a valid GUI handicap and play in open comps, both players must be members of a club. All details must be correct especially in open comps, names, H/C's, date, comp details, home clubs, marker etc. Did you sign in to computer before playing?, some clubs require this.

Eric the Eagle

gerire wrote: »

awaiting a clarification phone call from competition sec.


H/C's and signature from player and marker there

gerire, did you hear anything from the competition secretary?

mr.mickels

Doesn't sound right, and neither does the response, unlike the others I think you were being patient enough, they should have contacted you, afterall they charged you entry fee without having to wait. Why not name the club here if they still haven't given you an adequate explanation why your 63 didn't come second.

murphdogg11

Must have been something wrong at your end. Couldn't see a golf club making a mistake like that!

Corkblowin

Well.....I have heard stories of away players never being in prizes in open competitions in some clubs. One particular midlands club is notorious for it. Keep on the case OP - you are entitled to some kind of answer - even if its just to say card was added up wrong or you were DQ'd etc.

gerire

mr.mickels wrote: »

Doesn't sound right, and neither does the response, unlike the others I think you were being patient enough, they should have contacted you, afterall they charged you entry fee without having to wait. Why not name the club here if they still haven't given you an adequate explanation why your 63 didn't come second.

They had all our details. It was a team comp so we were told not to sign in on the computer but they did take our gui card numbers.
Both hc's were correct on the day as per golfnet.

The hc secretary is apparently 'away' on holiday. So the mail that was sent to him is now in the comp committee room for the next one of them in to deal with. My initial patience I was told I didn't have here is wearing thin. And this experience is leaving a bad taste.
I remember as a juvenile I played an open in bundoran the day I was leaving donegal and won a 9. They had called me before I had arrived back in dublin and bent over backways to get my prize to me.
And maybe its just a conspiracy theory in my head at this stage but I just want an answer at this stage

L.O.F.T

Which club is it?

murphdogg11

Def entitled to a full answer - you should name this club if you don't get any satisfaction.

golfwallah

As match & handicap work is usually voluntary, and very labour intensive, plus their hc sec is on hols., I'd cut the club a bit of slack.
Might also be a good idea to send an email to the club's manager or hon. secretary.
If that doesn't work and you still have no response within about 2 weeks, I'd name & shame the club.

gripcasey

Should it not be the comp sec dealing with this not the hc sec unless both are the same person.

BigChap1759

I say name 'em :rolleyes:

Keano

I'd give them until tomorrow evening and then name them.

Also with an boards outing coming soon I would not like to give these people money if by some strange coincidence the course you played was picked.

GreeBo

golfwallah wrote: »

As match & handicap work is usually voluntary, and very labour intensive, plus their hc sec is on hols., I'd cut the club a bit of slack.
Might also be a good idea to send an email to the club's manager or hon. secretary.
If that doesn't work and you still have no response within about 2 weeks, I'd name & shame the club.

I would agree with waiting a while normally, but in this case clearly the scores have already been counted (the results are on the website)
Waiting 2 weeks is just going to make it less likely to get a resolution...

irishtoffee

Name the club,might be a member of the club on here who could look into it for you.The way you have been treated is a joke OP.

gerire

irishtoffee wrote: »

Name the club,might be a member of the club on here who could look into it for you.The way you have been treated is a joke OP.

Ok just had a voicemail there from the general manager of the club.

DQ'd for no date on the card GRRRrrrrrrr

A simple schoolboy error and very unlike me.

Bar the delay in getting a reply I must say the course and facilities were amazing, last friday was a perfect day weather wise and some of the views off the 11th



Cheers for the tips and advice it was a very frustrating experience and one that wont happen again. I presume i did not put it on as we were rushing to the 1st, and i just put names and h/c's on it

f22

Pretty sure date is not a standard requirement, besides you should have been issued with a dated card with competition name and type anyway?

BigChap1759

Date is required alright

paulos53

I agree that you should not have been disqualified

Rule 33-5

In stroke play, the Committee must provide each competitor with a score card containing the date and the competitor’s name or, in foursome or four-ball stroke play, the competitors’ names.
In stroke play, the Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application of the handicap recorded on the score card.
In four-ball stroke play, the Committee is responsible for recording the better-ball score for each hole and in the process applying the handicaps recorded on the score card, and adding the better-ball scores.
In bogey, par and Stableford competitions, the Committee is responsible for applying the handicap recorded on the score card and determining the result of each hole and the overall result or points total.
Note: The Committee may request that each competitor records the date and his name on his score card.



The R&A website contains the following FAQ under the rule which is relevant

Is the player responsible for completing the scorecard with the competition details, date, etc?

Under Rule 33-5, it is the responsibility of the Committee to issue the competitor with a score card with his name and the date of the competition on the score card. A Committee may request the competitors help by asking them to complete this information to assist in the administration of the event, but it cannot require a player does so. As it is ultimately the Committee's responsibility, the player cannot be penalised for failing to do so.

killbillvol2

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Date is required alright

No, it's not.

Paulos53 has quoted the correct rule. Here's a link.

gerire, you need to go back to them and fill them in on their responsibilities. It's pretty shambolic tbh.

staker

Haven't played much society golf until recently and every card I've received has been named,dated, H/C and competition title written down.

BigChap1759

I'm very curious now as people have definitely been disqualified from my club for not entering the date or competition

killbillvol2

In short:

The Committee may request that each competitor records the date and his name on his score card.
BUT
the player cannot be penalised for failing to do so.

k.p.h

Ring him back and quote rule 33-5. And claim your prize.

Young_gunner

k.p.h wrote: »

Ring him back and quote rule 33-5. And claim your prize.

Do it !

ssbob

Young_gunner wrote: »

Do it !

Do it now!

Johnny_Fontane

ha ha this is brilliant. Old school golf courses suck....It goes back to my time of not being allowed into the clubhouse lounge as a junior (mid 90's).

k.p.h

Would love to see the managers face when the actual rule is quoted.. He is going to be like "oh ****"..!

But on a serious note it is ****ing scandalous, more so since it is from a club and a committee. For them not to know the rules is a disgrace. But for them to disqualify someone with them in the wrong and a completely made up rule. I'm speechless.

Since I have started playing competition golf some of the rules I have heard out of some people... I dunno what you could call them with out using some extreme profanity's... one of the bast one's was "the flag has to be in or out when your playing from off the green". Like it was a choice and could not be attended.

Another was heard by a friend of mine at a local golfing establishment. The proprietor was telling a customer in casual conversation that he had to use the back of the club to play out onto the fairway after an errand shot. The customer then proceeded to inform the proprietor that he had broken the rules and should ring and and declare himself DQ as he had handed in a wrong scorecard... WRONG .. Rule 14-1/1 A player may play a stroke with any part of the clubhead provided it is fairly struck. And the club conforms with Rule 4-1.

It's crazy what some people come up with. Pure crazy. Anyway someone at that club should be hung out to dry. I'm not sure what the club was as I'm not familiar with the Dublin courses, any chance someone could PM me the name if n one want's to mention it here.

gerire

k.p.h wrote: »

Ring him back and quote rule 33-5. And claim your prize.

Just back in after an afternoon of practicing.

Very interesting development and thanks to Paolo for reporting this.

I just rang the club again there but as its after 5 he is finished and out on the course at the moment.

I will get onto him in the morning and will report back;

Thanks again for this huge assistance lads


BTW I have edited my pervious post a little with the course details to give a chance to a fair reply to the club

davo10

paulos53 wrote: »

I agree that you should not have been disqualified

Rule 33-5

In stroke play, the Committee must provide each competitor with a score card containing the date and the competitor’s name or, in foursome or four-ball stroke play, the competitors’ names.
In stroke play, the Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application of the handicap recorded on the score card.
In four-ball stroke play, the Committee is responsible for recording the better-ball score for each hole and in the process applying the handicaps recorded on the score card, and adding the better-ball scores.
In bogey, par and Stableford competitions, the Committee is responsible for applying the handicap recorded on the score card and determining the result of each hole and the overall result or points total.
Note: The Committee may request that each competitor records the date and his name on his score card.



The R&A website contains the following FAQ under the rule which is relevant

Is the player responsible for completing the scorecard with the competition details, date, etc?

Under Rule 33-5, it is the responsibility of the Committee to issue the competitor with a score card with his name and the date of the competition on the score card. A Committee may request the competitors help by asking them to complete this information to assist in the administration of the event, but it cannot require a player does so. As it is ultimately the Committee's responsibility, the player cannot be penalised for failing to do so.

Paulos this wasn't a GUI strokeplay competition, it was a 2 person rumble where I presume the best score was recorded on each hole and perhaps both on the last hole. These do not count towards your handicap and local rules may apply. Our club has a large sign in the locker room and score entry room indication what info must be on each card.

Secondly, in the club where I am a member, the same sponsor often sponsors the whole open weekend so the date is important to know which day and comp the score card relates to.

PhilipMarlowe

While I understand some of the replies on here, some are also... something.
Any of those advocating being spoon-fed actually on a committee and if you are, are you up at your home course at 7am on Sunday to make sure that you write your members' names on their cards for their singles stableford... and I'm sure you hang around until 6:30pm in case anyone decides to go out late on a summers evening and wouldn't be able to function without having a pre-filled scorecard handed to them.

Not having a go at the OP but god forbid a guy would fill out his own card details. It's a simple mistake to omit something but it becomes ridiculous when there's no name (only a scribbled signature, and sure while you're at it, don't bother to sign in the allotted place because that's not against any rule either), no competition name, no date... It's not breaking a rule but it's not cricket either.

k.p.h

Licksy wrote: »

While I understand some of the replies on here, some are also... something.
Any of those advocating being spoon-fed actually on a committee and if you are, are you up at your home course at 7am on Sunday to make sure that you write your members' names on their cards for their singles stableford... and I'm sure you hang around until 6:30pm in case anyone decides to go out late on a summers evening and wouldn't be able to function without having a pre-filled scorecard handed to them.

Not having a go at the OP but god forbid a guy would fill out his own card details. It's a simple mistake to omit something but it becomes ridiculous when there's no name (only a scribbled signature, and sure while you're at it, don't bother to sign in the allotted place because that's not against any rule either), no competition name, no date... It's not breaking a rule but it's not cricket either.

Thats a fair point TBH but being DQ'd for omitting the date is extreemly harsh no matter what way you look at it. And since the R&A don'y have a rule saying you need it that makes it a committee decision.

So either someone made a mistake and though it was a rule.
Or else someone decided to DQ them and keep and keep the prize in house or something to that extent.

Either way it's unfair and not keeping with the general honesty and good will in which the game needs to be played.

L.O.F.T

k.p.h wrote: »

Either way it's unfair

k.p.h. there is nothing unfair about it.
Its basic stuff when filling in your card: Competition, date, name, players signature, markers signature. If its an away or open competition stick your GUI number and phone number on the card.
Its a hard lesson to learn but one which the OP will not make again.

davo10

k.p.h wrote: »

Thats a fair point TBH but being DQ'd for omitting the date is extreemly harsh no matter what way you look at it. And since the R&A don'y have a rule saying you need it that makes it a committee decision.

So either someone made a mistake and though it was a rule.
Or else someone decided to DQ them and keep and keep the prize in house or something to that extent.

Either way it's unfair and not keeping with the general honesty and good will in which the game needs to be played.

kph, it may be harsh but you know well that you need to fill all details on your card and where you might get away with omitting something on a sunday comp where the H/C secretary would know most of the members and overlook ommisions, in open comps where players come from all over, the details must be correctly noted if that is the local rule. OP has been told why he was DQ'd and accepts he ommitted the date on the card which may have differentiated it from other comps on that weekend. The club is blameless in this case.

killbillvol2

Licksy wrote: »

While I understand some of the replies on here, some are also... something.
Any of those advocating being spoon-fed actually on a committee and if you are, are you up at your home course at 7am on Sunday to make sure that you write your members' names on their cards for their singles stableford... and I'm sure you hang around until 6:30pm in case anyone decides to go out late on a summers evening and wouldn't be able to function without having a pre-filled scorecard handed to them.

Not having a go at the OP but god forbid a guy would fill out his own card details. It's a simple mistake to omit something but it becomes ridiculous when there's no name (only a scribbled signature, and sure while you're at it, don't bother to sign in the allotted place because that's not against any rule either), no competition name, no date... It's not breaking a rule but it's not cricket either.

I spent many years on commitee. You're mising the point. Regardless of twhether the committee should fill out details on thecard the R&A decision is clear. You can't penalise the player for not filling in the date.

PhilipMarlowe

I'm not saying you can/should penalise the player. I'm just pointing out that filling out a scorecard yourself as a player (when asked to do so) is much like replacing divots, repairing pitchmarks, raking bunkers... all stuff you aren't penalised for not doing but I consider it to be common courtesy.
I have actually seen a card handed in like I outlined above - a signature in the middle of nowhere, handicap and scores in the correct place (no points or totalling needless to say) and no name, date or competition name in sight.

PhilipMarlowe

Oh, and a club can have their own requirements in place for how to submit cards with some sanctions possible but that wouldn't involve DQ from that competition and probably wouldn't apply to open competitions because it would involve a 'ban' from a further X comps?

Young_gunner

So what's the end conclusion here?

The OP should have filled out the date BUT given he didn't, he shouldn't be penalised for it and should get his prize?

Keep us updated OP!

k.p.h

L.O.F.T wrote: »

k.p.h. there is nothing unfair about it.

Well I understand what you are saying but he didn't break the rules so thats unfair IMO.

k.p.h

Young_gunner wrote: »

The OP should have filled out the date BUT given he didn't, he shouldn't be penalised for it and should get his prize?

He shouldn't can't be penalised according to the rules form my interpretation of them.Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Rule 33-1 The committee has no power to waive a Rule of Golf

33-7. Disqualification Penalty; Committee Discretion
A penalty of disqualification may in exceptional individual cases be waived, modified or imposed if the Committee considers such action warranted.

If a Committee considers that a player is guilty of a serious breach of etiquette, it may impose a penalty of disqualification under this Rule.

mr.mickels

the GUI have a contact number on their website, might be worth the OP giving them a call to clarify what their position is on a card for an open event without a date, do they consider it DQ or not!!!