How would you react

johnmcdnl

if you raised your children as aethists but they started becoming devote Catholics as they got older and older...

kinda the exact opposite of what most of us have done...


It'd be a really strange situation to be in and I'm interested in seeing how you guys would react...

would you support them/let them at it and say nothing or would you try to talk to them to dissuade them from their beliefs..

Bloody Nipples

I'd say nothing. Unless they went all fundamentalist convert. I've no problem with belief as long as it isn't tempered with hostility.

Zombrex

I would beat the God out of them with my devil stick.


er...

I mean I would try and be as supportive of them as I can and of their choices while at the same time letting them know it is not my belief. If I didn't feel they were being strongly manipulated by anyone (other than the normal manipulation that is religion in general) and didn't think they were putting themselves or say my grandkids at direct harm, I would say they are adults and have the freedom to make this choice if they wish.

I may indulge in a bit of the opposite of God mom, but only for fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Aq00yJSxo

Robert ninja

I'd give out to them and tell them they're just saying they're catholics to try and be cool and they really don't believe there's a god. I would hint that perhaps they'll have no atheist day and then try my best to make them go to atheist church just to see what it's like.

If they still believed in god I'd be very sad and let them know how disaapointed I am. I'd try to get them while they're young by making them repeat 'There is no god, he does not love me - I do not serve him.'

NOT

Seriously? I'd just entertain it with fun talks about existence of god(s), origins of religion n' such. Unless they started actually obeying their religious commandments to stone their children to death or sacrafice animals, I wouldn't care too much. Though it would suck to think that my children were walking around sure that I and most of the population of Earth was bound for hell by default unless we love a zombie who became god.

MagicMarker

I'd have no problem with it so long as they don't mind me questioning their beliefs every chance I get! :pac:

The real question is, would they have a problem with the Richard Dawkins statue on my mantlepiece?

Memnoch

MagicMarker wrote: »

The real question is, would they have a problem with the Richard Dawkins statue on my mantlepiece?

Do you have to face north or south when doing the third prayer of the full moon to it? I always forget and feel like I'm not doing it right on account of how I haven't gotten filthy rich yet.

AhSureTisGrand

Memnoch wrote: »

Do you have to face north or south when doing the third prayer of the full moon to it? I always forget and feel like I'm not doing it right on account of how I haven't gotten filthy rich yet.

Have you been remembering to sacrifice virgins under the light of the full moon?

Dades

johnmcdnl wrote: »

How would you react if you raised your children as aethists but they started becoming devote Catholics as they got older and older...

Simple answer.

I'd want to know what was missing in their lives that sent them down that path.

Penn

I'd be fine with it. But I'd still mark them as No Religion on the census forms

GarIT

I'd bring them to a doctor to find out what is wrong with their head that could make them believe that bulls**t. That wouldn't happen to me though because all my children will be really well educated.

Dades

GarIT wrote: »

I'd bring them to a doctor to find out what is wrong with their head that could make them believe that bulls**t. That wouldn't happen to me though because all my children will be really well educated.

No doubt heartfelt but unnecessarily antagonistic. Tone it down, please.

johnmcdnl

GarIT wrote: »

That wouldn't happen to me though because all my children will be really well educated.

But see that's the thing that makes me wonder - I was brought up in as Catholic a house as you could ask for - I might have missed 2 masses over 15-16 years until I finally started to rebel and stop going... prayers.. rosaries.. trips to knock.. the whole lot...

I'm sure my parents though they educated me as well as they possibly could have in regards to religion...


Just makes ya think - what if you raise your children with as much vigor and trying to make sure they don't fall for religions and they end up doing so - I suppose I'd just have to let them at it but you'd have to feel like a right arsehole of a parent for letting them go that way...

Shenshen

Well, I would discuss it with them. But at the end of the day, it will be their decision.
Personally, I'm happier with a believer who knows what he/she believes in and who makes informed decisions, than with an atheist who is atheist out of ignorance but will still look down on religious people.

That said, it will have to be live and let live. The moment they refuse to tolerate other beliefs, we'll be in trouble.

WeeBushy

I'd have no problem with it. As long as they were making a genuinely personal decision; not based on outside pressure, duping etc and their beliefs did not negatively impact on others*, then to each their own.


*For instance, taking the Koran on its word and advocating apostasy.

MrPudding

It makes me sweat just thinking about this.

First of all, I would be deeply disappointed. I don't think it is possible to express in text just how deep the disappointment would be. Deep.

Like Dades, I would wonder what was missing in their lives that made them feel they had to turn to religion, but I expect I would feel that it was a failure on my part that drove them to it. I would try to establish if there something going on that I was not aware of, something that worried them.

I would question them about it, and would continue to do so. I would constantly try to challenge them.

In short, deep disappointment would be my reaction.

MrP

Splendour

Why would an atheist care if a child of theirs turned to religion? If there is no such thing as God why would this be such a big deal?

Splendour

Splendour wrote: »

Why would an atheist care if a child of theirs turned to religion? If there is no such thing as God why would this be such a big deal?

Same reason as anyone being concerned their child ran off to join a cult, or converted to a different religion, etc etc

Splendour

bluewolf wrote: »

Same reason as anyone being concerned their child ran off to join a cult, or converted to a different religion, etc etc

I can understand the concern if a child joined a cult but if they take to believing in a 'non existent being', I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

AhSureTisGrand

Splendour wrote: »

I can understand the concern if a child joined a cult but if they take to believing in a 'non existent being', I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Why would we be concerned if we also believed the being existed?

MrPudding

Splendour wrote: »

I can understand the concern if a child joined a cult but if they take to believing in a 'non existent being', I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

For me because I would see the belief in the non existent being as an indication of a problem in their life, or as a failure on my part in their upbringing.

I know there is no need for belief in a god. I don't believe in god and I am perfectly happy. There is no hole or lack of fulfilment in my life. Have a search for the threads started by donattello in this forum about the hole in his life that he has to fill with god. I lack that hole.

I know that if my child started to believe in a god the correct response for me would be to say "ah well. As long as they are sure" and let them get on with it. I know I should be the bigger person, but if I am being honest, I know deep down I won't be able to do that. I will see thief belief in a god as a failure on my part or as a symptom of a problem in their life.

MrP

MagicMarker

Splendour wrote: »

I can understand the concern if a child joined a cult but if they take to believing in a 'non existent being', I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

If people didn't have a problem with people believing in something that doesn't exist then this forum probably wouldn't be here.

robindch

Splendour wrote: »

I can understand the concern if a child joined a cult but if they take to believing in a 'non existent being', I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Nobody really objects too much about the deity. After all, we don't think it's up there doing whatever it is that the religion-du-jour says that their one or more deities do all eternity long.

What we do object to strongly is the ethical, intellectual and societal dislocation that arises from the collective power of innumerable individual delusions. All egged on by religious demagogues who owe their livelihood to their ability to lie convincingly.

Dades

The idea that a child not brought up in any particular religion would start to embrace one particular religion would hint that that religion was taking the place of something your child was lacking. Self esteem, a crutch, a point in life, a sense of belonging... something that as a parent you would hope they were never short of.

pH

Splendour wrote: »

Why would an atheist care if a child of theirs turned to religion? If there is no such thing as God why would this be such a big deal?

Well, if they were gay they'd be putting themselves through a lot of unnecessary guilt and stress.

sama_kaffee

well i would be interested to hear where my daughter heard of Catholicism, considering where she lives.

however, i know how she would know the "ár nAthair" and the "sé do bheatha Mhuire" because i prayed them to her a thousand times (to get her to sleep)

at the end of the day i trust my child to find her own way , the way i found mine.

amen

Splendour

robindch wrote: »

Nobody really objects too much about the deity. After all, we don't think it's up there doing whatever it is that the religion-du-jour says that their one or more deities do all eternity long.

What we do object to strongly is the ethical, intellectual and societal dislocation that arises from the collective power of innumerable individual delusions. All egged on by religious demagogues who owe their livelihood to their ability to lie convincingly.

So if they stressed an interest in God but weren't affiliated to any church you wouldn't mind?

Splendour

pH wrote: »

Well, if they were gay they'd be putting themselves through a lot of unnecessary guilt and stress.

Why?

Funny, as I was reading through this thread I thought how the child of an ultra atheist who fears 'coming out' and telling their folks they're believers with that of a gay child having to 'come out' to conservative parents.

Splendour

Dades wrote: »

The idea that a child not brought up in any particular religion would start to embrace one particular religion would hint that that religion was taking the place of something your child was lacking. Self esteem, a crutch, a point in life, a sense of belonging... something that as a parent you would hope they were never short of.

There are plenty of people who are drawn to religions for the reasons you state above but you will find that these kind of people are attracted to any group where there is a sense of belonging where they are made to feel needed. This is not true for the majority of believers though.

mikhail

I'm sure their mother would cry, which I would blame them for. Then, I'd tell them they were not welcome in my house.

(Yeah, coming out as an atheist was fun.)

Beruthiel

Dades wrote: »

I'd want to know what was missing in their lives that sent them down that path.

Yup. I believe if you bring a child up with no particular god and they are happy in their lives, the actual need to turn to a religion would not exist.
People who turn to religion strongly in their later years have something missing in their lives and are not comfortable and happy in their own skin.

kiffer

Splendour wrote: »

There are plenty of people who are drawn to religions for the reasons you state above but you will find that these kind of people are attracted to any group where there is a sense of belonging where they are made to feel needed. This is not true for the majority of believers though.

the majority of beleivers...

The majority of believers are just repeating what they were told as children, and have a very wishywashy understanding of the whys and wherefores of the whole mess.

The majority of believers are sitting there thinking I'm not really sure about any of this stuff but everyone else seems to be so I guess it's just me...

The majority of boards members make claims about what people think and don't feel the need to back those claims up...

smokingman

I'd have to agree with most on here when they say that their child turning to religion would be considered a failure for themselves as a parent. The most important thing for me is that they grow up to think about things properly, not taking anything for granted and not being swayed by supernatural mumbo jumbo.

I've thought about it a lot and one part of me thinks that I should bring them up as the default catholic just to give them perspective in later life. Perspective akin to "did I really believe in that santy character?! ha ha wasn't I a fool!" that would teach moreso than anything logical debate would.

Then another part of me kicks in and decries what is effectively child abuse in my eyes with even proposing the idea that some invisible thing is going to torture them forever in some concept of hell if they don't adhere to a certain set of rules.

So no, they'll be made fully aware of all religious teachings from every sect I can read and teach about to make sure they understand the concepts....and then we can poke fun at religions together in a heartwarming father-son fashion.

Beruthiel

smokingman wrote: »

and then we can poke fun at religions together in a heartwarming father-son fashion.

Tis what I do with Mini Me.
From the age of two I brought her up to think for herself. If you teach a child to think for itself, it's much more difficult to fool them later in life.

Splendour

Beruthiel wrote: »

Yup. I believe if you bring a child up with no particular god and they are happy in their lives, the actual need to turn to a religion would not exist.
People who turn to religion strongly in their later years have something missing in their lives and are not comfortable and happy in their own skin.

Not true (for me anyway). I liken a relationship with God to male/female relationships-I'm very happy on my own and don't feel the need to have a partner but when I am in a relationship it can enhance my life (not to mention my death!). Having a relationship with God adds to people's lives.

Splendour

kiffer wrote: »

the majority of beleivers...

The majority of believers are just repeating what they were told as children, and have a very wishywashy understanding of the whys and wherefores of the whole mess.

The majority of believers are sitting there thinking I'm not really sure about any of this stuff but everyone else seems to be so I guess it's just me...

The majority of boards members make claims about what people think and don't feel the need to back those claims up...

The majority of believers who have wishy washy whys and wherefores are probably just religious folk but not necessarily true believers.

D1stant

Interesting question OP

Well on one hand rebellion is welcome and healthy. If my kids dont rebel I will be very dissapointed

In a way its a great way of debating the issues with your kids and any opportunity to have a respectful equal conversation with teenagers is time well spent

So.. I'd see it as a challenge and an opportunity, not as a dissapointment

biko

As long as it made them happy. Hopefully they'd choose a non-violent religion (not Christianity nor Islam).

Some people feel they need a crutch to help them through hard times.
If that crutch is personal religion then fine, as long as they feel comforted.

However, if they started into some cult/sect then there'd be problems.

Beruthiel

Splendour wrote: »

Not true (for me anyway). I liken a relationship with God to male/female relationships

One is real and the other is imaginary. How can that be anything alike?

LittleBook

My reaction would really depend on the age but speaking as the mother of an agnostic teenager ...

johnmcdnl wrote: »

But see that's the thing that makes me wonder - I was brought up in as Catholic a house as you could ask for - I might have missed 2 masses over 15-16 years until I finally started to rebel and stop going... prayers.. rosaries.. trips to knock.. the whole lot...

I'm sure my parents though they educated me as well as they possibly could have in regards to religion...

Just makes ya think - what if you raise your children with as much vigor and trying to make sure they don't fall for religions and they end up doing so - I suppose I'd just have to let them at it but you'd have to feel like a right arsehole of a parent for letting them go that way...

Extraction should be easier than inception in mature minds ... didn't you see the film?

I remember telling my Dad years ago I was worried about sending my daughter to (the same) Catholic school (I went to as a child) and he said to me "sure look at all the good it did you!" :pac:

Splendour wrote: »

I can understand the concern if a child joined a cult but if they take to believing in a 'non existent being', I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Well it all depends on the age we're talking about but from my point of view it's like saying "my teenager has started believing in Santa Claus/fairies/the celestial teapot." ... so yes, a bit of a fuss would be in order.

Dades wrote: »

Simple answer. I'd want to know what was missing in their lives that sent them down that path.

Dades wrote: »

The idea that a child not brought up in any particular religion would start to embrace one particular religion would hint that that religion was taking the place of something your child was lacking. Self esteem, a crutch, a point in life, a sense of belonging... something that as a parent you would hope they were never short of.

This. As the mother of an agnostic teenager, I'd be shocked if one day she turned around and told me she believed in a god or needed a religion in her life. Rightly or wrongly, I tend to assume if someone finds religion late it life, it's to fill a gap of some kind.

There's no question that I would "tolerate her beliefs" but I'd definitely be bewildered and not a little worried. I'll ask her what she thinks.

jank

Beruthiel wrote: »

Yup. I believe if you bring a child up with no particular god and they are happy in their lives, the actual need to turn to a religion would not exist.
People who turn to religion strongly in their later years have something missing in their lives and are not comfortable and happy in their own skin.

Little bit presumptive don't you think?

robindch

jank wrote: »

Little bit presumptive don't you think?

"Presumptive?" No. "Accurate" is the word you're looking for

jank

Hmmmm, see this is the arrogance that I don't get, the "we know whats actually going on" high hoarseness while ridiculing other opinions even those that say "maybe thats not all there is to it"

Unless you happen to know all 6 billion people in the world....:rolleyes:

strobe

johnmcdnl wrote: »

if you raised your children as aethists but they started becoming devote Catholics as they got older and older...

kinda the exact opposite of what most of us have done...


It'd be a really strange situation to be in and I'm interested in seeing how you guys would react...

would you support them/let them at it and say nothing or would you try to talk to them to dissuade them from their beliefs..

Exorcism, from space...it's the only way to be sure.

MagicMarker

jank wrote: »

Hmmmm, see this is the arrogance that I don't get, the "we know whats actually going on" high hoarseness while ridiculing other opinions even those that say "maybe thats not all there is to it"

Unless you happen to know all 6 billion people in the world....:rolleyes:

Change the fúckin' record will ya!

Dades

jank wrote: »

Hmmmm, see this is the arrogance that I don't get, the "we know whats actually going on" high hoarseness while ridiculing other opinions even those that say "maybe thats not all there is to it"

Don't you think of the people who "find" religion there's an unusually high proportion who have experienced personal loss, hard times or just never "fit in"?

It's alright for anyone with religion to suggest that everyone else with other religions are wrong, just not those without?

kiffer

Splendour wrote: »

The majority of believers who have wishy washy whys and wherefores are probably just religious folk but not necessarily true believers.

Yes, because the majority of believers only believe because their parents maintained the position more strongly than they did the Santa Claus position.
They've never examined what they believe in a serious way, hense the wishywashy nature of it... They don't care, it's a cultural thing, "ah sure that's just the way the world is..."

jank thinks we'd need to know all 6 or 7 billion people in the world to assume that people who are not raised into a religion would become believers only if there was some void in their life... but most people raised into a religion don't do more than pay it a sort of automatic lip service, untill they have a good reason to get more serious about it, a death, aging, depression, cancer.

When someone converts from one religion to another it's generally meant fairly seriously, people don't just go ah sure today I'll be a muslim.
When a person raise out side of a religious profession, who doesn't already have a set of mystical beliefs picks one up and runs with it, it's surprising/worrying, just as much (if not more) so than if a wishywashy religious person got very serious about their religion overnight... Or someone who was more serious about their religion converted to a different faith, rather than a minor shift... A Catholic switching to COI is basically not making much of a change, a Baptist switching to say Shinto would make you really wonder what the heck is going on.

rainbow kirby

I would be a little offended that my child had decided to follow the teachings of an organisation which treats their mother as a lesser human being, tbh.

jank

MagicMarker wrote: »

Change the fúckin' record will ya!

What you mean you dont know all 6 billion people in the world...!! that..that means you might be wr..wr..wrong.... well I never!

jank

Dades wrote: »

Don't you think of the people who "find" religion there's an unusually high proportion who have experienced personal loss, hard times or just never "fit in"?

It's alright for anyone with religion to suggest that everyone else with other religions are wrong, just not those without?

Two things there, first of all you are saying a higher proportion. The original statement by Beruthiel implied that it was everyone. The two are different. My point was the we cannot just assume the reason why people turn to religion. It is very easy to say, "sure they are just losers hence why..." It may come to a shock to you but atheists are humans too and are just as guilty in having bad human traits and judgement. Humility is not your strong point

Second point is valid but the average person who has religion in their lives does not give a $hit if their next door neighbour is of a different religion or no religion. Of course there are people out there who discriminate and try and push their own views and agenda just as there are people who turn to religion who are "not" losers!

Dades

jank wrote: »

My point was the we cannot just assume the reason why people turn to religion. It is very easy to say, "sure they are just losers hence why..." It may come to a shock to you but atheists are humans too and are just as guilty in having bad human traits and judgement. Humility is not your strong point

Did I or Beruthiel call these people "losers"? Somewhat misrepresentative of what is being said, no?

Does it lack humility to question why people do things? Because that is all that is being done here.

The question here concerns people of no religion turning to religion, so if to question why people turn to religion lacks humility - then this thread is pointless and we might as well just close our minds now.

Sarky

As long as they'd thought it through and it was what they really wanted, then away they go with my [whatever non-religious people have instead of blessing].

Still, it wouldn't stop me from lying back in a comfy leather chair, popping on a good tv show, lighting up an expensive cigar and saying "Enjoy your life of celibacy and- Oh man, that's some tasty decadence... And poverty. and remember, you can come back any time you like!"