The need for a United States Of Europe?

lightspeed

• In the past year Ive become very interested in politics and world news. Ive been studying the differences between Europe and the USA. In college Ive been studying law and i actually was not aware that member states of the EU are forced to accept EU law over national laws which is identical as far as i know as in the USA where federal laws are supreme over state laws.
• As a result of a ruling by the ECJ parents of children born in the EU are entitled to a visa of the member state country. So now if people from poorer countries like Bangladesh or Pakistan or less living standards like china all they have to do is get a student visa and get pregnant and give birth in an EU country. Serbia may also now be joining the EU so that means more people from other countries along with a continued flow of refugees from the Africa and middle east that will need to avail of welfare and take jobs away from current Europeans
• The banking crisis within Europe i think highlights the need for a united Europe as member states struggle to repay large IMF loans and the doubt is devaluing the euro and id the euro was to completely collapse its likely that the European union as it is will collapse. if all member countries were brought under closer regulation and all shared the burden then there may not have been a banking crisis to the state that exists now and the burden could be spread across all EU member states which would put Europe in a much stronger position than it is now.
• we pay taxes towards military defense budgets and yet as far as i know our troops just get sent across Africa with the UN and nobody seems to notice or care where ,why or how much it costs. Why cant we have have a European army that acts as a police force and just gets called for service when military action is required by the EU? Imagine how safe Europe would be if we had our own troops policing are own countries rather than just paying them to occupy foreign countries.
• 
  We have 50% of the world's wealth, but only 6.3% of its population. In this situation, our real job in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which permit us to maintain this position of disparity. -- George Kennan, US Cold War Planner, 1948
  
  The united states has over 1000 us military outside of the USA bases not including Iraq and Afghanistan at a cost of over 152bn a year with many of them in Europe even though they are struggling to cut a massive 14 trillion dollar deficit they have not shut down any of their foreign military bases. 73 military bases in are in Germany alone.
  
  
  
  
  It seems to me that perhaps the reason the USA are keeping their military bases open in Europe is because of increased measures to unify Europe into one nation . Considering that USA population is about 307 million people and the EU-27 has a population of 510 million people and growing it does not seem to crazy of a conspiracy theory to think that the USA are worried about that the distribution of the worlds wealth may divert away from the USA and flow towards the USE(United States Of Europe).

mink_man

Nah just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Herb Powell

I don't like how people only seem to see immigrants as a drain on the economy-i.e, they "take" jobs. They also contribute to creating a larger market.

joshrogan

We'd win the world cup every 4 years, I'm up for it.

sensibleken

mink_man wrote: »

Nah just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Agreed

"the society of super-friends"

now thats worth a vote!

WhiskeyGoblin

AND THIS IS MY UNITED STATES OF EUROPEE... Sorry not a chance.

hatrickpatrick

No WAY.
We have far too little democracy already as it is.

sensibleken

we pay taxes towards military defense budgets and yet as far as i know our troops just get sent across Africa with the UN and nobody seems to notice or care where ,why or how much it costs. Why cant we have have a European army that acts as a police force and just gets called for service when military action is required by the EU? Imagine how safe Europe would be if we had our own troops policing are own countries rather than just paying them to occupy foreign countries.

why would we need our own troops policing our own countries. We already have something for that. theyre called the police.

Dravokivich

I have a page here for a Mr. Jim Corr to the CT Forum, that's a Mr. Jim Corr to the CT Forum.

Hande hoche!

Might be worth pointing out that those US military bases in Germany contribute to the local economies.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Too many diverse cultures if you ask me. And too many people in a lot f coutnreis would obejct to federal laws.

MitchKoobski

Well Europe is made up of countries, not states.

So it'd be the UCE, United Countries of Europe.










League of Superfriends still sounds better.

Freddie59

Well if Europe was truly federal, all countries would have shared the debt burden of the PIIGS and it wouldn't have been half as severe as it is for us. Of course, German/Franco interests always win the day.

orourkeda

What is the EU only a united states of europe

squod

For as long as Europeans what Turkey to join, count me out. Need for democracy and a common bond > some bureaucrats idle fantasy

Mr.Crinklewood

Na.

MitchKoobski

MitchKoobski wrote: »

So it'd be the UCE, United Countries of Europe.

Probably more like the VSE (Vereinigte Staaten von Europa). Auf Deutsch!

lightspeed

sensibleken wrote: »

why would we need our own troops policing our own countries. We already have something for that. theyre called the police.

Yes we do but they are dangerously understaffed with further cuts likely after there have already been large cuts to the gardas operations and and we are paying our troops anyway so it would not cost anymore and would make the country a lot safer but instead we pay people to occupy african countries in worthless democracies e.g sudan who had a legitimate democracy to split the north and south of the country and now it looks like they are about to go to war with each other again , so whats the solution? Are we going to throw more european money and more european lives at the an impossible occupation while europeans struggle to provide health care and welfare for its own citizens?

lightspeed

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Might be worth pointing out that those US military bases in Germany contribute to the local economies.

The united states is over 14 trillion in debt and struggling with a downgraded economy. You believe that the USA is spendind ovr 152 billion a year on foreign military bases like the 73 in germany just to be nice and take care of the german local economies? , They are spending billions building schools and hospitals after bombing them to the ground and killing over 100,000 people while citizens in the USA are in a vicous health care debate with a large degree of poverty and a weakening US dollar. So you believe the USA is just being nice? Does that really make sense to you?
Given the facts can you explain why USA would give a damn about helping out the germans?

Saila

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz7_3n7xyDg

sensibleken

lightspeed wrote: »

Yes we do but they are dangerously understaffed with further cuts likely after there have already been large cuts to the gardas operations and and we are paying our troops anyway so it would not cost anymore and would make the country a lot safer but instead we pay people to occupy african countries in worthless democracies e.g sudan who had a legitimate democracy to split the north and south of the country and now it looks like they are about to go to war with each other again , so whats the solution? Are we going to throw more european money and more european lives at the an impossible occupation while europeans struggle to provide health care and welfare for its own citizens?

you do realise that soldiers arent trained as policemen right? besides the irish are well known as being very good peacekeepers

DoubleBogey

No. Simply because it doesn't work. The great European experiment has failed. This is fact and not a conspiracy theory. It's fact because the markets say so. Ireland has already defaulted as far as the markets are concerned and the markets demand a proper solution. Bailing out countries who cannot repay their debts is not a solution. The ECB policy is determined by the strongest link, it needs to be governed by the weakest link and this simply can't work. The project is dead in the water and there's only so long we can go on bailing water.

lightspeed

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No WAY.
We have far too little democracy already as it is.

I couldnt agree more, thats my point that considering we have the same legal system ALREADY so why would it not be better to have a united country rather than a country that is being told to accept immigrants from differnt countries and not just different states,i dont have a problem with immigrants but i work for a company with over 150 people, It has more foreign people employed than irish. ive not seen the exact numbers but it appears that as an irishman working in a company ireland i am now a minority. i get along with everyone i work with but it bothers me thinking back to when i was on the dole and actively looking for work that there are foreigners in jobs while irish people cant get work.

The reason it does not bother people in the USA about people looking for work in different states is because they are all one country. Are the irish people on the dole looking for work supposed to feel that way about people who are taking jobs in their place from Poland and hungary and probaly Serbia soon and also Bangledesh ,india and china rest of the world under the ECJ rulling of non EU parents?

In the USA they have state laws and federal which completely identical to how we have NOW EU laws and state laws. its my understanding that obamas healthcare reform act applies to all states and the states that tried to reject it and are in a legal battle as they are in conflict with federal laws by doing so. But we could retain our own state laws as long as they abide by EU laws like we do now. So what would change? we would control our own justice,healthcare and education system the same as we do now.

• We would just have a united army and use it to police our own countries and not the world
• work together to develop a proper renewable energy programme for Europe
• Have a more closely regulated european baking system
• Share the burden of debt which i think is the most equitable option considering there is plenty of blame to go around. Ireland ,Greece,Spain had crooked bankers that borrowed too much money they could not afford and the ECB were crooked and stupid enough to throw money at these countries because if it all went tits up the individual countries would have to suffer the debt , they could not have got away with this if we were a united europe because then all european countries would burden the debt more equally and so their actions wouyld be held more accountable.
• A stronger euro with out he need of huge IMF bailouts at such high interest rates. In the usa some of the worst hit states have been given investment to help them recover NOT LOANS. We are given loans with high interest rates because we are not all one country but a foreign divided union of countries.

To summarise we have all the negatives of having a united states of Europe with any of the positives AT THE MOMENT.

DoubleBogey

Why would the likes of Germany, France, UK want to carry the dead weight of the weaker countries? It makes mo sense whatsoever. The USA is a country divided into states but what you are talking about is devaluing countries to the status of states of the USE. I ask again, why would a country such as Getmany want to do that? Their having a tough time as it is accepting their obligation to the single currency by providing loans, even though the loans are paid back with interest.

lightspeed

sensibleken wrote: »

you do realise that soldiers arent trained as policemen right? besides the irish are well known as being very good peacekeepers

You do realise we could change that by training them to be both police men and soldiers. They would be asked to join military campaigns if required and if not would work as members of our police force. This would not cost anymore money and would make Europe a much safer place to live,and would this not help fight the so called war on terror that supposedly exists in parts of europe? So what if they are good peacekeepers? how do you define "good"? for years there has been UN troops from european countries in congo,sudan,africa and what good has come? The people put in power in the congo ran a campaign of rape and murder which is still an everyday occurance and an outright crisis in the congo despite the presence of UN troops, There ws still war in Cote DI voire despite holding elections which where apparently corrupt, Recent killings afer democratic elections in nigeria with corrupt senators being paid a salary of $2 million while the people live in poverty and its oil resouces are raped and exploited by Europe and USA, War again about to erupt between North and South Sudan, Look at the uneven distribution of wealth across the world, the reality is the USA and Eu wnated to rid African of violence and starvation they would be able to do so if they agreed to spread the wealth more, but they dont want to because we want the oil,gold,diamonds. The UN is an charade and i dont see why people from the USE should be continued to be used as target practice when we could just develop a renewable energy program and put our fellow citizens to better use?

NoQuarter

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Well Europe is made up of countries, not states.

So it'd be the UCE, United Countries of Europe.

Being a fellow law student I can really see you dont know what the hell you'RE on about. Thank you.

lightspeed

DoubleBogey wrote: »

Why would the likes of Germany, France, UK want to carry the dead weight of the weaker countries? It makes mo sense whatsoever. The USA is a country divided into states but what you are talking about is devaluing countries to the status of states of the USE. I ask again, why would a country such as Getmany want to do that? Their having a tough time as it is accepting their obligation to the single currency by providing loans, even though the loans are paid back with interest.

The united states are not a country of divided states. It is a country if united states which is why it is not called the divided states of america, because it would stablise the euro and help it grow to become a more dominant currency against the us dollar. Europe would not be in this position if we had an accountable united government in the eurozone. From what i heard its mostly german bondholders that we are paying back we are just getting high interest rate loans from the imf to do it. I could be misinformed on that i do believe the fact that we are not united gave a license to crooked bankers to act like ministers of finance in all eu countries who were not to be held accountable for theri actions. Imagine the outrage in the USA if troubled states had borrowed too much money on credit and the federal government had loaned to much to the amount of hundreds billions and then those states had to borrow more money at a high interest rate and struggle with the debt on their own? Would the federal government in power survive? No and they would probaly struggle to seize power again which is why the same situation did develop in the states as in Europe. Yes the USA is in debt but there are various other reason such as their addiction to war and insistance on occupying oil rich countries rather than developing a renewable energy resource. The banking crisis that has led to countries like germany having to help us out is a product of its environment and i think germany would be more interested than anyone in seeing a stable euro zone.

gerbear1

NoQuarter wrote: »

Being a fellow law student I can really see you dont know what the hell you're on about. Thank you.

cosmicfart

Europe = UNITED STATES as in we are in a state, a fooked up state :pac:

Eric Cartman

meh were already pretty much all the way there, unless all of europe had autobahns, cheap beer, cheap fuel, legal weed, low road tax , secular schools , low taxes legal prostitution, low dole , actually free healthcare, low corporation tax, illegal clamping, the german age of consent, swiss gun laws etc...(all the good parts of each country) then no , leave us alone

Wetbench4

lightspeed wrote: »

Have a more closely regulated european baking system

I'm all for the baking system, in fact i'm baked right now:D

Capt'n Midnight

MitchKoobski wrote: »

Well Europe is made up of countries, not states.

So it'd be the UCE, United Countries of Europe.

PUE

Pronounced "poo"

Payes Uninte d'Europ - or whatever the French is.

Or if the Germans get their way we'll be the Fourth Reich