The 'let's talk perks and weapons' thread. Make war, not love!

OriginalTom

bubbleking wrote: »

cant see it being taken up Tom. I dont speak for the IRL but Iv a feeling there are too many "banned" things in the Decerto rule set for it to be a goer. I'll add you later on though - feel free to jump into a game with us any time

Ah fair enough, I guess for some people they can't be without things to lean on so it makes sense. And yeh, cheers mate, I don't really play too many 'public' matches, my account isn't even a level 50 got my ak at 38 and provided i have my mp5 and m16 i'm set!

OriginalTom

docdolittle wrote: »

I might have a few people to play against you with those rules Tom, I'll ask my mates tonight and see what they say...

Okidoke, cheers lad.

bubbleking

OriginalTom wrote: »

Ah fair enough, I guess for some people they can't be without things to lean on so it makes sense. And yeh, cheers mate, I don't really play too many 'public' matches, my account isn't even a level 50 got my ak at 38 and provided i have my mp5 and m16 i'm set!

Commando at level 44 is my personal fav - pretty much is the M16 with rapid fire.

Again not speaking for anybody else but I dont think its a case of leaning on anything. If something is in the game its up to you to figure out how to beat it and everything in COD has a way of being beaten. I dont think we'd see so many alternate rule sets if it wasnt for screaming kids crying because they think certain guns are overpowered etc etc - not saying you are one of these btw.

To me its a bit like saying well I cant handle the game so you have to play by these rules or Im taking my ball and going home. I dunno why people think the game is unbalanced because if every weapon/perk is available then surely its a level playing field? I actually think there is more of a skill in utilising a greater set of tools in an optimal way to figure out how to beat an opponent

Royal Irish

OriginalTom wrote: »

Ah fair enough, I guess for some people they can't be without things to lean on so it makes sense. And yeh, cheers mate, I don't really play too many 'public' matches, my account isn't even a level 50 got my ak at 38 and provided i have my mp5 and m16 i'm set!

Its not a case of having anything to lean on.

Best way to describe how our thinking is about banning stuff is, imagine an american soldier getting shot in the leg in afghanistan by a taliban fighter with a AK47 and dual mags, and the american soldier said while lying on the ground bleeding, "is he allowed use dual mags?".

Everything in the game has a counter measure. I think people who want to ban so many weapons/perks/equipment, are people who cant deal with those things.

Although I have those views above, I would still love to get a game going with you's tom because nothing I use on softcore is banned so it suits me.

I will say to the rest of the lads.

OriginalTom

bubbleking wrote: »

Commando at level 44 is my personal fav - pretty much is the M16 with rapid fire.

Again not speaking for anybody else but I dont think its a case of leaning on anything. If something is in the game its up to you to figure out how to beat it and everything in COD has a way of being beaten. I dont think we'd see so many alternate rule sets if it wasnt for screaming kids crying because they think certain guns are overpowered etc etc - not saying you are one of these btw.

To me its a bit like saying well I cant handle the game so you have to play by these rules or Im taking my ball and going home. I dunno why people think the game is unbalanced because if every weapon/perk is available then surely its a level playing field? I actually think there is more of a skill in utilising a greater set of tools in an optimal way to figure out how to beat an opponent

Never really use the commando so haven't formed an opinion on it really! I think your comment 'Everything in COD has a way of being beaten' is perhaps slightly naive, and I say this with no offence! One Man Army, Danger Close and Tubes were pretty unbeatable. The Famas has a higher rate of fire than the AK47 and does the same damage, it is a more powerful gun and as such is the favoured gun out of everyone online. With the Decerto ruleset, they take out ANYTHING that hinders fair gunfights and allows for 'cheaper' tactics. Thats the main reason why concussions aren't allowed, I've played enough MLG Variant to have a lot of experience in competitive gaming, people will stun you twice and then semtex you rather than go for a fair gun fight.

But this is what separates competitive players for public players really. The fair gunfight has existed since CS1.6 and CS:S where flashes and smoke were your only equipment, it makes sense that Decerto has always attempted to replicate rules that were formed from the most balanced shooter of them all, a shooter that rewarded skill.

I think thats sort of answered your points? The MLG scene takes a similar point to you that if everyone uses the Famas then it isn't overpowered, but the EU scene (and a large majority of the US scene now) have always remained adamant that guns should require skill to use, which the Famas does not.

bubbleking

exactly Royal.

To put it another way its like saying lets have a game of chess but we will only use pawns (obviously you'll need a king too ) You are basically stripping the game down and it becomes terribly boring and 1 dimensional. To me this is what happens when you introduce alternate rule sets.

There is so much to COD when you just allow everything. You need to set up your class/killstreaks to be aggressive but also to counter the enemy

e.g theres a camper with ghost pro on who is running blackbird for his team mates - who on our team is running counter UAV. If he gets air support who are our anti air guys.

Or they are spamming B dom with Nova Gas and Semtex - can we get a few players on out team to change to the flak Jacket and gas mask class please

It just makes the game far more interesting if everything is allowed

OriginalTom

Royal Irish wrote: »

Its not a case of having anything to lean on.

Best way to describe how our thinking is about banning stuff is, imagine an american soldier getting shot in the leg in afghanistan by a taliban fighter with a AK47 and dual mags, and the american soldier said while lying on the ground bleeding, "is he allowed use dual mags?".

Everything in the game has a counter measure. I think people who want to ban so many weapons/perks/equipment, are people who cant deal with those things.

Although I have those views above, I would still love to get a game going with you's tom because nothing I use on softcore is banned so it suits me.

I will say to the rest of the lads.

I've never been a fan of comparing a real life situation to a video game, it's a completely different scenario so I'll take the comparison with a pinch of salt.

How would you counter One Man Army Tubes? Blast Shield? Didn't work. The Famas and Aug have the highest Fire Rate of any assault rifle and yet do the same damage as the AK, Commando, Galil, Enfield etc. That is not balanced. The proof is in the pudding.

Believe me, competitive players can certainly deal with all of the above things that you've listed. The Famas is the easiest gun in the game to use, I've had games where I go 150-10 playing publics with a Famas (even YT'd it) and its not a rarity to be able to dominate with that gun. I can use a motion sensor and get a set of free kills, I can use a claymore and get an instant kill, I can use Flak Jacket and sponge grenades all day long but it doesn't mean it's skillful. Look at the games that are always referenced as the best, Counter Strike, Call of Duty 2 etc. Both of these games were simple, they emphasised gun skill rather than relying on other factors to kill the opposition.

But yeh, would be good to have a game playing core.

bubbleking

OriginalTom wrote: »

Never really use the commando so haven't formed an opinion on it really! I think your comment 'Everything in COD has a way of being beaten' is perhaps slightly naive, and I say this with no offence! One Man Army, Danger Close and Tubes were pretty unbeatable. The Famas has a higher rate of fire than the AK47 and does the same damage, it is a more powerful gun and as such is the favoured gun out of everyone online. With the Decerto ruleset, they take out ANYTHING that hinders fair gunfights and allows for 'cheaper' tactics. Thats the main reason why concussions aren't allowed, I've played enough MLG Variant to have a lot of experience in competitive gaming, people will stun you twice and then semtex you rather than go for a fair gun fight.

But this is what separates competitive players for public players really. The fair gunfight has existed since CS1.6 and CS:S where flashes and smoke were your only equipment, it makes sense that Decerto has always attempted to replicate rules that were formed from the most balanced shooter of them all, a shooter that rewarded skill.

I think thats sort of answered your points? The MLG scene takes a similar point to you that if everyone uses the Famas then it isn't overpowered, but the EU scene (and a large majority of the US scene now) have always remained adamant that guns should require skill to use, which the Famas does not.

I never owned a console before this year and so never played MW2 so I cant comment on anything there Im just speaking from Blops perspective but I'll quickly list out counters for what you have said

Noob tubes - Flak jacket
Concussion/nova - Gas mask pro
Famas - Lightweight, marathon, SOH pro and AK47u for pwnage :cool:

To me there is no more skill in drop shotting and Halo Jumping (which is prevelant in competitive gaming juding from you tube clips) than setting up classes that allows you to counter an enemy

OriginalTom

bubbleking wrote: »

I never owned a console before this year and so never played MW2 so I cant comment on anything there Im just speaking from Blops perspective but I'll quickly list out counters for what you have said

Noob tubes - Flak jacket
Concussion/nova - Gas mask pro
Famas - Lightweight, marathon, SOH pro and AK47u for pwnage :cool:

To me there is no more skill in drop shotting and Halo Jumping (which is prevelant in competitive gaming juding from you tube clips) than setting up classes that allows you to counter an enemy

But what counters Flak Jacket then? Because I could throw a brilliant grenade to save a flag and someone using that perk would just sponge it and run off. I'm grateful for Flak Jacket to counter Noob Tubes but it's banned in competitive for a reason.

Playing without Ninja in competitive doesn't work, everyone has headsets now so Tactical Mask Pro doesn't make sense. It's a great perk, I use it in pubs all the time.

74u has been nerfed, it will not outshoot a Famas at close range, does less damage and has a slower rate of fire. Believe me, I've tried. MLG Columbus is this Friday, a penny for everytime someone uses a gun other than the Famas and you'll have 1 penny when a team pulls out a Spectre.

bubbleking

OriginalTom wrote: »

But what counters Flak Jacket then?

Bullets

OriginalTom wrote: »

Playing without Ninja in competitive doesn't work, everyone has headsets now so Tactical Mask Pro doesn't make sense. It's a great perk, I use it in pubs all the time.

Ninja is helpful when you really dont want to give away your position such as SnD for example but in situations where it doesnt really matter such as domination you would be better off using something else

OriginalTom wrote: »

74u has been nerfed, it will not outshoot a Famas at close range, does less damage and has a slower rate of fire. Believe me, I've tried. MLG Columbus is this Friday, a penny for everytime someone uses a gun other than the Famas and you'll have 1 penny when a team pulls out a Spectre.

47u has more mobilty which allows you to maneveur in gun fights faster and beat the Famas. Or I'd just use the famas - both people using the same thing still = fair

OriginalTom

bubbleking wrote: »

Bullets



Ninja is helpful when you really dont want to give away your position such as SnD for example but in situations where it doesnt really matter such as domination you would be better off using something else



47u has more mobilty which allows you to maneveur in gun fights faster and beat the Famas. Or I'd just use the famas - both people using the same thing still = fair

So how do you counter the Flak Jacket, Sleight of Hand, Tactical Mask guy using a Famas?

By using the exact same class.

I understand your point that two people using the same thing is fair, but that doesn't mean its skillful. My housemate, who never plays Call of Duty online, only ever plays Zombies, has over a 2k/d because he just sweats the Famas and I quote 'the easiest gun to use, drops people so quickly and hardly bounces'.

No skill. There's no competition when there's no skill involved.

CORaven

OriginalTom wrote: »

The Famas and Aug have the highest Fire Rate of any assault rifle and yet do the same damage as the AK, Commando, Galil, Enfield etc. That is not balanced. The proof is in the pudding.

Enfield, G11, Famas and Aug do 35-25 damage
Commando, AK47, M16 and Gail do 40-30
FAL and M14 do 50-40

The 40-30 bracket are capable of two shot kills where as the 35-25 require three shots minimum.

yimrsg

CORaven wrote: »

Enfield, G11, Famas and Aug do 35-25 damage
Commando, AK47, M16 and Gail do 40-30
FAL and M14 do 50-40

The 40-30 bracket are capable of two shot kills where as the 35-25 require three shots minimum.

However if you ignore headshots, all ARs apart from the M14 and Fal are 3 shot kills so it stands to reason the higher rate of fire of a gun is a huge benefit in all shootouts without a headshot occuring.

It's a horrendously complex subject.

bubbleking

CORaven wrote: »

Enfield, G11, Famas and Aug do 35-25 damage
Commando, AK47, M16 and Gail do 40-30
FAL and M14 do 50-40

The 40-30 bracket are capable of two shot kills where as the 35-25 require three shots minimum.

there you go the Famas is not over powered

/arguement

This content has been removed.

Mr. Rager

AGB_Ghost wrote: »

it is, the faster a gun fires the more powerful it is (rapid fire AK74u?)

The famas is very accurate and fast firing and deals a lot of damage instantly.

Not to mention hip firing

This content has been removed.

Royal Irish

AGB_Ghost wrote: »

it is, the faster a gun fires the more powerful it is (rapid fire AK74u?)

The famas is very accurate and fast firing and deals a lot of damage instantly.

I would agree that high fire rate equals more power, but I think using a gun with high fire rate like the AUG and Famas you are giving up accuracy at long range compared to the Commando, AK47 and Galil. Or maybe its just me in my old age that cant pull off shots at range with those guns

Anyway we can debate all this stuff until we are blue in the face, but I find the rules to be fair and really its originaltoms clan match done by his rules and its up to any clans from boards to accept the challenge.

I posted it over on our clan website Tom and said to the lads that I would be up for it so am just waiting to see if we have 3 other players to take part.

FAILSAFE 00

OriginalTom wrote: »

So how do you counter the Flak Jacket, Sleight of Hand, Tactical Mask guy using a Famas?

Arnie - If it bleeds we can kill it

You shoot him before he shoots you You can outplay him, 9/10 times I find I just have to adjust to the enemies teams loadout as best I can during the game, with something like 10 custom classes slots I can be prepared for most scenarios.

x43r0

Almost outta work so will be on in roughly half an hour to host the evening sesh :cool:

mlindsay215

Agreed, with Ath's original comment, removing items from the game and perks that give people a distinct advantage when used properly is the only way to challenge one's self.

These, "competitive rules" are catering only for the weak, those who are clearly in their comfort zone in a more forgiving game mode. The aspect of competitive play is supposed to remove the player from his comfort zone, and really make him work for the win.
This is exactly why I started playing hardcore, because it IS much more of a challenge.



Most of the IRL clan aren’t opposed to the idea of playing softcore, we’re opposed to the all give and no take we get when arranging matches with clans. We will gladly play on whatever map, with whatever weapons, on any game type you choose, providing the courtesy is returned to us.

docdolittle

Could you guys make a new thread, post in the bitching thread or something ffs! I couldn't give a flying fúck what guns/perks you think are overpowered! This is for people discussing the games they played last night/want to set up games...

mlindsay215

Well sorry that you don't seem to like us discussing setting up a match, contrary to what you just said.

Last I checked, Ade said he welcomed us posting here, if you have a problem with us.....tough. We're not hurting anyone, and regardless of what you might think, we are interested in mending the broken relasionship of BRDS and IRL, so if that involves contributing positivly to discussions here, then we'll do just that.

Mr. Rager

mlindsay215 wrote: »

Well sorry that you don't seem to like us discussing setting up a match, contrary to what you just said.

Last I checked, Ade said he welcomed us posting here, if you have a problem with us.....tough. We're not hurting anyone, and regardless of what you might think, we are interested in mending the broken relasionship of BRDS and IRL, so if that involves contributing positivly to discussions here, then we'll do just that.

He doesn't have a problem with IRL, he never said that, he's just pointing out to both boards and IRL members that there's a megabitch thread to bitch in

Simon Gruber Says

They were on patrol through the jungles of 'nam. It looked no different from any other part of the jungle they had been in. The heat, the humidity the smell of the earth and trees sticks to you. Mosquitos buzz around their faces. Suddenly a crack, one of them falls. The enemy surpised them, it was an ambush. They hit the ground, trying to spot the enemy through the thick vegetation. Bullets seem to come from every direction. The private didn't make it to cover in time, he's hit badly. The lieutenat gives the order to retreat. The enemy closes in, emerging from the jungle. The injured private suddenly sees two of the enemy approching his squad from the rear, guns in hand. He acts fast, reaches for his pistol, with two quick shots he downs both, surely saving the men......

Last standing n00b

OriginalTom

bubbleking wrote: »

there you go the Famas is not over powered

/arguement

An unbelievably flawed point. I may be new to this board but it does not mean that I'm a complete idiot.

/argument. (Spelling)

Royal Irish

OriginalTom wrote: »

Of course, I'm better than 95% of the pub scrubs out there and I have no need to use a Famas. If the main gun you use is a Famas, it already signals that you are not a strong player because you have to rely on such an overpowered gun to do well.

These are the posts I refered to in my PM :rolleyes:

Maybe we can play a clan match another time, but if you play the BRDS lads, make sure you's stick it up on youtube for us to see how you's get on.

naughto

for a new member to boards (0 tom)you do talk a lot of sh1te to get arise out of people

Mr. Manager

Wow, I'm gone for 4 days and this is what happens?!

Quit clogging up the thread with shíte. I wanna read about games played last night that I'm missing out on, not what gun is better than another.

BTW, all yee IRL lads need to lose the attitude. Not everyone on this forum is a bad guy out to get you.

Mr. Rager

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Wow, I'm gone for 4 days and this is what happens?!

Quit clogging up the thread with shíte. I wanna read about games played last night that I'm missing out on, not what gun is better than another.

BTW, all yee IRL lads need to lose the attitude. Not everyone on this forum is a bad guy out to get you.

Its like your the dad that leaves their teenagers the house for the weekend, only to come back and find the rooms filled with used Durex johnnys and bottles of buckfast :pac::pac:

Mr. Manager

fjsanchez wrote: »

Its like your the dad that leaves their teenagers the house for the weekend, only to come back and find the rooms filled with used Durex johnnys and bottles of buckfast :pac::pac:

Wouldn't mind coming back to that, at least I know it would have been a successful weekend

bubbleking

beasted so hard last night the controller set alight in my hands. Bill gates called me up and was like "yo athboy stop pounding everyone you play against its causing them to trade in their xbox"
and I was like "yo Bill stop cogging up my bandwidth or I wont get to enjoy my 8th Blackbird in the 2nd minute of this match"
He was like "teach me"
I was like "nah"

True story

mlindsay215

If the main gun you use is a Famas, it already signals that you are not a strong player because you have to rely on such an overpowered gun to do well.

Thats a little niave. Any epic player could make full use of the famas and therefore make himself better.

I commend such players, making full and proper use of everything available to him to make himself a better player.

@Ath,

Epic tale my friend, epic indeed.

OriginalTom

Royal Irish wrote: »

These are the posts I refered to in my PM :rolleyes:

Maybe we can play a clan match another time, but if you play the BRDS lads, make sure you's stick it up on youtube for us to see how you's get on.

Perhaps I phrased it wrong, didn't mean for it to come out the way that it did. And yeh, I record so will definitely upload.

KERSPLAT!

bubbleking wrote: »

beasted so hard last night the controller set alight in my hands. Bill gates called me up and was like "yo athboy stop pounding everyone you play against its causing them to trade in their xbox"
and I was like "yo Bill stop cogging up my bandwidth or I wont get to enjoy my 8th Blackbird in the 2nd minute of this match"
He was like "teach me"
I was like "nah"

True story

I call bullsh!t, I've seen ya play

mlindsay215

IPAM wrote: »

I call bullsh!t, I've seen ya play

If we where comparing to him against you I would believe that tale np :pac::pac::pac:

naughto

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Wow, I'm gone for 4 days and this is what happens?!

Quit clogging up the thread with shíte. I wanna read about games played last night that I'm missing out on, not what gun is better than another.

BTW, all yee IRL lads need to lose the attitude. Not everyone on this forum is a bad guy out to get you.

u are not a mod so why do u think we give a dame if u where gone for 4 years

dunworth1

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Wow, I'm gone for 4 days and this is what happens?!

Quit clogging up the thread with shíte. I wanna read about games played last night that I'm missing out on, not what gun is better than another.

BTW, all yee IRL lads need to lose the attitude. Not everyone on this forum is a bad guy out to get you.

hey hold on just a minute while you were gone everyone got on fine here and now that you back your trying to start up a war between everyone again.

Your sir are the one who needs to loose the attitude and grow up.

Mr. Manager

naughto wrote: »

u are not a mod so why do u think we give a damen if u where gone for 4 years

Very observant so you are. You're right, I'm not a mod. If I was I, would dish out hefty bans to most posters of the last few pages.

Anywho's this thread is for games about last night so I'll stop here.

dunworth1 wrote: »

hey hold on just a minute while you were gone everyone got on fine here and now that you back your trying to start up a war between everyone again.

Your sir are the one who needs to loose the attitude and grow up.

I have no attitude what so ever.

Yea, clearly you guys got on. The last couple of pages of garbage must just be my imagination.

bubbleking

in fairness nothing really being said to merit a ban. People (everyone) just need to stop being so petty and realise Tom started it

kidding obv but ye know the drill

OriginalTom

bubbleking wrote: »

in fairness nothing really being said to merit a ban. People (everyone) just need to stop being so petty and realise Tom started it

kidding obv but ye know the drill

sad face.

Magill

OriginalTom wrote: »

Perhaps I phrased it wrong, didn't mean for it to come out the way that it did. And yeh, I record so will definitely upload.

Want me to edit a montage out of it for ya ? You guys are bound to get some beast clips against IRL !

KERSPLAT!

Why is it once a month some IRL members come in here like women on the rag, bitchin an stirring ****, everyone gets on grand till the usual suspects come along

Good games tonight lads! Starting to like nuketown again

Nuri Sahin

Clearly both sides cannot coincide and I'll need to think about what to do.

For a few certain individuals, this is most definitely a final warning. There won't be ANY hesitation in handing out 3, or 6 or even permanent bans from the forum. This fly under the radar type trolling I won't stand for too and the hypocrisy of some here is damn astounding considering what has happened in the past.

But in general, will you all the cop the **** on and grow up. The charter was amended because of you kidsadults

r3nu4l

Right, I've moved 44 posts from the XBox About last night thread, if anyone starts posting in there again about perks and weapon loadouts they will be banned, unless it's directly related to games that were played 'last night'.

I'm going to go through this new thread now and issue some infractions.

Also, I can see a concerted effort by one group of posters to antagonise another. I'm still modding this forum until we sort out some new mods. My last mod action may be some permbans from the forum. I'm sick of the few individuals causing the same problems over and over again.

Mr. Rager

Epic thread title is epic

KERSPLAT!

Is it just for IRL or can everyone use it to talk about perks etc?

dunworth1

IPAM wrote: »

Is it just for IRL or can everyone use it to talk about perks etc?

i assume its anyone

bubbleking

Im assuming its for everyone. Without sounding pedantic can the thread title be changed to "lets talk about perks and weapons thread"? there isnt really a need to have IRL in the title imho

Shammy

To the IRL clan , ye play mainly hardcore and more so hcctf and thats your preferred gamemode , fair enough theres a wide range of playlists to suit everyone.
But to say its more of a challenge with all equipment/guns/perks than the decerto rules is beyond me.
Decerto rules are all about teamwork (4v4) communication, tactics, individual as well as team skill.
Playing 6 v 6 pub rules imo isnt as skillful when you have 2 lads staring at the flag with motion sensors or the like.
I did play competitively for a few years and would love to go back to it but unfortunately with old age comes slower reflexes .

Maybe if the IRL clan tryed it out ye might actually enjoy it as its far more exciting and satisfying then your regular pub stomping which i'm sure ye might be a little bored with.

bubbleking

CTF is a bad example to use because if you dont have at least 2 people watching the flag at all times a good team will have you wiped out in less than 2 mins

Take SnD for example - why shouldnt everything be allowed in that?