Your Motorhome / Conversion, VRT and You.

niloc1951

gogathome wrote: »

Thanks for the replies lads.

No straightforward rules that I can find so far anyway.

I have checked other threads on here but can't get a definitive answer, sounds like there used to be a rule of min height internally of 1.8M but I think that is gone.

I will try the RSA website as recommended, if I find any rules that are set in stone I will be back to share them here.

(Though don't hold your breath )

The minimum height was to qualify for the special road tax rate but afaik it's not required anymore, but could be wrong check with tax office, it's not an RSA issue.

mr.dunkey

I'm having a Mazda bongo Auto free top hit our shores from Japan in a few weeks.
I just need a small kitchen installed to get me all the requirements as a motorcaravan. I plan on having a unit ready, drop it into the boot and secure it.
As far as i can see,this is my next steps...
1. Vehicle Owner’s Declaration of Conversion
2. SQAI form complete and stamped.

Then bring it to NCT to a booked appointment for re classification.

Information from top of form.....
" CONVERTED UNREGISTERED OR FOREIGN-REGISTERED VEHICLE:- A vehicle owner, when declaring a converted
unregistered or foreign-registered vehicle to the NCTS for registration, must also present to NCTS this Declaration of
Conversion together with the related Suitably Qualified Individual declaration."

I dont think it will be that easy, what am i missing.Who will calculate VRT,rosslare??

There are lots of posts on uk, European campers but none on a Japanese import.
Do cosy classics still have a SQAI tester come every now and again as that would be my nearest guy.

Any help welcomed. heres a pic anyhow

Buford T Justice

mr.dunkey wrote: »

I'm having a Mazda bongo Auto free top hit our shores from Japan in a few weeks.
I just need a small kitchen installed to get me all the requirements as a motorcaravan. I plan on having a unit ready, drop it into the boot and secure it.
As far as i can see,this is my next steps...
1. Vehicle Owner’s Declaration of Conversion
2. SQAI form complete and stamped.

Then bring it to NCT to a booked appointment for re classification.

Information from top of form.....
" CONVERTED UNREGISTERED OR FOREIGN-REGISTERED VEHICLE:- A vehicle owner, when declaring a converted
unregistered or foreign-registered vehicle to the NCTS for registration, must also present to NCTS this Declaration of
Conversion together with the related Suitably Qualified Individual declaration."

I dont think it will be that easy, what am i missing.Who will calculate VRT,rosslare??

There are lots of posts on uk, European campers but none on a Japanese import.
Do cosy classics still have a SQAI tester come every now and again as that would be my nearest guy.

Any help welcomed. heres a pic anyhow

The Suitably Qualified Individual is only to certify that the conversion has been completed to an acceptable safely standard. I can't remember where the link is, but they do provide a list of approved centers that you can use, think its any garage that has NSAI certification or something. I'm a bit rusty on it.

Rosslare will be the ones who decide how much VRT will be calculated. They'll most likely pull a figure out of the air.

You can import it as a commercial vehicle first and then have it re-classified, and they'll offset the first vrt figure you paid against the second one.

mr.dunkey

Buford T Justice wrote: »

The Suitably Qualified Individual is only to certify that the conversion has been completed to an acceptable safely standard. I can't remember where the link is, but they do provide a list of approved centers that you can use, think its any garage that has NSAI certification or something. I'm a bit rusty on it.

Rosslare will be the ones who decide how much VRT will be calculated. They'll most likely pull a figure out of the air.

You can import it as a commercial vehicle first and then have it re-classified, and they'll offset the first vrt figure you paid against the second one.

VRT as a commercial first could be one way around it.
Can i VRT it as a commercial if there's windows in the rear and no bulk head?
I would probably have to remove all seat belt fittings too.
Can cars with elevating roofs qualify as a commercial?

Just reading up on the commercial route,i still have to get it confirmed by an SQI as a commerical.

reelkidmusic

I think you would be better off to get it registered as a camper from day one. Because it is a foreign vehicle being first registered in Ireland, I think you will have to bring it to the NCTS who will calculate VRT. The SQI form can be completed at any DOE test centre. I found the people in Rosslare very helpful when i was getting my conversion registered. You could try getting in contact with them.

There is a guy in Galway who regularly advertises Bongo's for sale on Donedeal. He might be willing to offer some advice if you contact him. He also seems to sell parts as well. I don't have any connection with him so don't know whether or not he would be willing to offer help. Link to one of his ads below.

http://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/all-mazdabongo-parts-kitchen/5907471

mr.dunkey

reelkidmusic
I think im going to have to register as camper initially.
Thanks i seen that guy in galway on donedeal he seems to be the parts or goto guy for bongo bits in Ireland.
I didnt think the SQI could be done at any DOE centre but if so even better.

Cheers

larry kehoe

been through the thread and theres lots of great advice, just wondering where would i stand haveing a leyland swift re classified as a camper an how would the licence work out, could it be driven on a car licence as it would no longer need the tacho etc...

Anita M.

where can you park it after you have converted it? Can you park it in the street?

niloc1951

Anita M. wrote: »

where can you park it after you have converted it? Can you park it in the street?

Although the vehicle has been converted converted from a commercial vehicle to a private passenger vehicle, it is still a vehicle.
Being a vehicle, once it's taxed, insured and with a current CRW it can legally be used on the road and park, like other vehicles, in any parking places provided on the publicly funded road and parking areas, provided any parking fees are paid.

tanya25

Sorry if this has been asked allready if I am converting a van that I Owen do I still pay the omsp on the finished conversion ? as the vrt on the van would have all ready paid ????

CJhaughey

tanya25 wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked allready if I am converting a van that I Owen do I still pay the omsp on the finished conversion ? as the vrt on the van would have all ready paid ????

The VRT paid would have been on the premise that the vehicle was a commercial and consequently lower than a camper VRT.
So you will have to pay the difference between the initial VRT of €50 or €200 and the camper OMSP which could be quite a lot as they just pull a figure out of the air seemingly.

jamesbil

tanya25 wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked allready if I am converting a van that I Owen do I still pay the omsp on the finished conversion ? as the vrt on the van would have all ready paid ????

Yes you will. I just paid 1200 on a 08 relay I converted.

moodrater

jamesbil wrote: »

Yes you will. I just paid 1200 on a 08 relay I converted.

That sounds steep I would contest it you'll get a few quid back in almost all cases.

*Kol*

moodrater wrote: »

That sounds steep I would contest it you'll get a few quid back in almost all cases.

What argument would you give when contesting it?

larry kehoe

larry kehoe wrote: »

been through the thread and theres lots of great advice, just wondering where would i stand haveing a leyland swift re classified as a camper an how would the licence work out, could it be driven on a car licence as it would no longer need the tacho etc...

so after some digging about, and a chat with the local traffic corp seargent, it appears the answer to my question is, no it can`t be driven on a car licence without the tacho, the way the gardai see it is as a weight issue, it boils down to whichever lane its tested in at the doe, tacho or not...

this he said would apply in court also when a judge would be decideing on a case where someone with a car licence was stopped or otherwise detained in said vehicle..

niloc1951

larry kehoe wrote: »

so after some digging about, and a chat with the local traffic corp seargent, it appears the answer to my question is, no it can`t be driven on a car licence without the tacho, the way the gardai see it is as a weight issue, it boils down to whichever lane its tested in at the doe, tacho or not...

this he said would apply in court also when a judge would be decideing on a case where someone with a car licence was stopped or otherwise detained in said vehicle..

A bit of a convoluted explanation for your friend in The Traffic Corp, put simply this is the situation.

The Leyland Swift bus definitely looks like it is over 3,500 GVW, and is designed to carry more than 16 passengers, so as a bus a person driving it needs a D licence and a tacho needs to be in use.

If it's converted and re-categorised as a motor caravan with not more than eight passenger seats it can be driven on a C1 licence (assuming its plated GVW is not over 7,500kg) and a tacho is not required.
Being definitely over 3.500kg GVW it cannot be driven on a B licence.

The test lane designated for the vehicle has nothing to do with whether there is a tacho or not, all motor caravans over 3,500kg GVW are tested on the HGV lane and none have a tacho fitted as it's not a legal requirement.

larry kehoe

niloc1951 wrote: »

A bit of a convoluted explanation for your friend in The Traffic Corp, put simply this is the situation.

The Leyland Swift bus definitely looks like it is over 3,500 GVW, and is designed to carry more than 16 passengers, so as a bus a person driving it needs a D licence and a tacho needs to be in use.

If it's converted and re-categorised as a motor caravan with not more than eight passenger seats it can be driven on a C1 licence (assuming its plated GVW is not over 7,500kg) and a tacho is not required.
Being definitely over 3.500kg GVW it cannot be driven on a B licence.

The test lane designated for the vehicle has nothing to do with whether there is a tacho or not, all motor caravans over 3,500kg GVW are tested on the HGV lane and none have a tacho fitted as it's not a legal requirement.

bus weighs 5.5 unladen, this is as a bus, when its a camper it should be a small bit lighter, it cannot even after recategorised as a camper be driven on a car licence, non of them can if they weigh more than the legal requirement for the licence is what he`s saying in a broad sence aswell.... he is just saying that a copper would go by the weight of the vehicle, also the tacho is for business purposes so its not neded or there are no legal requirements to use it once its been changed over as it`ll be a lesiure vehicle...

also he wasn`t saying the tacho has anything to do with motorcaravans or conversions etc, just a myth aisked him about, as im building i find there are lots of them, some people say you can do things one way then others say you can`t and all the while the waters are murky a best when it comes to campers..

Buford T Justice

Tachographs are required for commercial vehicles over 3.5T. When it's reclassified, it'll no longer be a commercial vehicle.

Anita M.

I failed to get a stamp and signature from the engineer as the seat/bed kitchen etc was not fixed properly. How should it be fixed? 'This equipment must be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.' I have it fixed with long screws with heads blunted and metal 90 degrees or straight strips (with pre drilled holes) on the inside. THe engineer told me he wants it fixed with bolts through the wooden floor and metal plate or plates to the bottom under the van. I think thieves will like the metal plates but will do this to pass. What exactly did he want to say does the whole van need a metal plate under the box van or just small plates or strips? How can I make sure the bolts are non removable? I can not blunt the heads on a bolt. What other requirements are needed apart from this and all that is written in http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html ? Who would help out here? What garage or company does this? How can I do this myself? How thick must the plate under the van be? Is there any other engineer online that would think it is not needed this way? Anyone had the same and it did pass?

jamesbil

Anita M. wrote: »

I failed to get a stamp and signature from the engineer as the seat/bed kitchen etc was not fixed properly. How should it be fixed? 'This equipment must be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.' I have it fixed with long screws with heads blunted and metal 90 degrees or straight strips (with pre drilled holes) on the inside. THe engineer told me he wants it fixed with bolts through the wooden floor and metal plate or plates to the bottom under the van. I think thieves will like the metal plates but will do this to pass. What exactly did he want to say does the whole van need a metal plate under the box van or just small plates or strips? How can I make sure the bolts are non removable? I can not blunt the heads on a bolt. What other requirements are needed apart from this and all that is written in http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html ? Who would help out here? What garage or company does this? How can I do this myself? How thick must the plate under the van be? Is there any other engineer online that would think it is not needed this way? Anyone had the same and it did pass?

It's only the seats that need to be fixed through the floor. A metal plate will do. My engineer wanted to see round plates about 75 mm. No corners to pull through in the event of an accident.
The kitchen needs to be ridgedly fixed to the wall or floor. Just so it's not loose and would go flying on impact.
It is possible you have the wrong engineer, some don't want the job due to lack of guidelines from rsa. Some are unreasonable in their demands. And some just wand to know it is being done to a good safe standard. This is the one you want.
Pm me if you need advice or numbers.

Anita M.

Where can we find a more detailed rsa guideline sheet?

Irishgoatman

Anita M. wrote: »

Where can we find a more detailed rsa guideline sheet?

If you can't find the info on their website why not ring them in Ballina?. I've found them very helpful if you explain what info you need. Tel: 1890-406040 or 096-25000.

By far the most reliable source.

boardsiebob

One successful argument for contesting high VRT bill is the following:

The OMSP is determined by Revenue from lists of similar vehicle. If similar vehicle is not available on list then Revenue has to use alternative approach to determine OSMP.
The alternative approach taken by Revenue is to check OSMP of UNconverted vehicle and add value of conversion!

3 things to keep in mind using this argument:
- Keep receipt when you bought your van
- Do your (first) conversion very cheaply!
- your conversion is always a unique conversion which is nowhere listed!

this saved me about 900euro in VRT!

MJohnston

Question about a camper I'm currently buying - this is a camper being sold by a County Down based motorhome dealer, with a VW T5 that still has it's Dublin plates. When I was looking at it on Saturday, the logbook still said "Goods" and it was taxed at EUR330 - so I went with the assumption that it hadn't been re-classified by the owner, and if I buy it I'll have to do it myself - so is it the case that the logbook would be updated to reflect a conversion?

Second to that, if I have to take on the conversion myself, could anyone tell me whether the Suitably Qualified Individual declaration can be carried out by non-Irish based facilities? I'd be thinking of haggling this out of the dealer, as had sold it to me on the basis that I wouldn't need to re-classify it, and they're already putting it through a full service themselves, so it might not be a big deal for them to do it.

Edit: also - presumably I can't get it taxed and insured until the conversion is official, so what order would people recommend doing this in?

crabbypaddy

The revenue and insurance will make it difficult for you go convert and insured a low roof van so be prepared for extra hassle there are plenty of posts on here about it.

MJohnston

crabbypaddy wrote: »

The revenue and insurance will make it difficult for you go convert and insured a low roof van so be prepared for extra hassle there are plenty of posts on here about it.

Yeah I've read all the posts about conversions, but my question is about a specific circumstance which I don't think has been covered yet.

crabbypaddy

MJohnston wrote: »

Yeah I've read all the posts about conversions, but my question is about a specific circumstance which I don't think has been covered yet.

I don't see anything new in your circumstance.

If its goods on the registration document you're buying a commercial vehicle. Its not a camper it doesn't matter who you buy it off, what conversion if any has been done etc.

If its got windows and/or seats in the back and is registered goods then commercial insurance and tax is null and void so forget that route.

If you can find an insurance company who'll take you on for a low roof van conversion then typically they would provide temporary cover for the purposes of getting it sqi'd, weighed, engineer report etc. Dolmen gave me 6 weeks for my conversion.

You'd have to rely on the common sense and discretion of the guards regarding the tax which thankfully they generally have once you have the documentation to support your case. Currently the only official exemptions to tax are if its declared off the road with the following conditions:
"A vehicle may be used during the period of a non-use declaration in two cases:
to bring it to and from a test centre for the test; or
to bring it for repair after a re-test, or back to where you are keeping it while it is off the road after the repairs. This option may only be used where an appointment has already been made for a re-test.
The same rules apply to roadworthiness testing for commercial vehicles.
If you are bringing the vehicle to a test centre or to or from repairs after a test failure, it would be advisable to carry a copy of the appointment for the test or re-test with you."

Regarding SQI the requirements are outlined in the declaration form: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/forms/vehicle-conversion-declaration.pdf

You will still have to have it weighed at an NSAI approved weighbridge. I can't see any benefit in driving up and down to the north for an SQI especially as you may need to join a club to insure a low roof an they may insist on their own engineer to look at it anyway.

Alkers

Anyone know what the process is for changing the number of seats in a van which is already registered as a camper?

rosco p coltrane

No, but i would imagine that it is a cert. of the work from an SQI individual, along with photos and your log book to the Rev.

Give them a shout in Rosslare 053 - 9161200

niloc1951

Simona1986 wrote: »

Anyone know what the process is for changing the number of seats in a van which is already registered as a camper?

It it an original factory built camper or a DIY conversion.