How to scold a very bold child

wolfpawnat

Hey all.

Aidan is 2 years and 4 months old now, he has a very basic grasp on English and refuses to listen to the word no (not an usual situation for toddlers I know). But here's the thing, for the last 10 days he has been really badly behaved. Over the last few months I have tried time outs, corners, steps, you name it, we have tried it, the only thing that half works ignoring him. But that leads to the situation of it gets worse before it gets better. The bedroom is always turned upside down now because when he gets mad he pulls apart everything as a form of dirty protest.

I can literally go nowhere without getting dirty looks and constant comments about his behaviour! He uses this really high pitched scream and it drives everyone around him insane. It is embarrassing and headache causing. I cannot blame people for being annoyed.

Has anyone any suggestions for something a bit different, because at this stage I feel I have tried everything other than giving him a slap. I rather not rear my son that way, but in all honesty I cannot leave my house without him being absolutely horrific in the last 10 days!

Any suggestions???

snuggles09

i had the same thing with my eldest when she was hitting 3, to the point where she took her pull up off and smeared her poo all over her carpet bed and wall:eek: she was a nightmare but now she's good as gold and the best child

it's a phase but i understand that doesnt help your situation

when she would get into a temper i would put her in her room, stand outside and hold the door. she would kick and scream but there was no way she was getting out until she calmed down her temper, if it took 10 mins or 10 hours i was so pissed off at this stage with her behaviour, she would eventually calm down and just start that crying thing

i've also turned the car around and brought her home when she started in the car and at that age you'd think they wouldnt notice but she did and she eventually gave it up. i also did slap her on occassions ( i dont mean whallop i mean a slap to the bum) and she realised that if she kept it up she was in big big trouble with me

to be honest play school was the making of her, they don't stand for bad behaviour in a play school and have ways of positiviely reinforcing discipline but that wouldnt work at home as all kids play up on their own parents,

i think the phrase was street angel house devil. it's not fair on you that you are getting looks when you go out but like you said if someone elses child was carrying on that way around you you'd be thinking christ would they ever do something with that child so now is the time to act while he is young

the next time he starts pick him up and put him in his room and ignore his protests, he needs to know he'll get more attention for doing good things rather than bad. praise all the good he does and ignore the bad and by ignore i mean tell him off and put him in his room. he'll soon associate being bold with being put in his room and ignored so that would nip it in the bud

i'm not a child psychologist so ignore all the above if you want i'm just a mother of 3 cracked little ladies:D

Moonbeam

Talk to your gp or public health nurse. If he does not have good language skills maybe he is. Frustrated with trying to communicate .
We get tantrums too and if she does not explain why and there is no visible reason then I mostly ignore her .

LegacyUser

Could I ask can your child speak so that other people know what he is saying or does it sound mumbled. A child I knew had a tongue tie & were trying to talk but everyone but // mother found it hard to understand //.
The child was cross because of this. Once they had an operation to correct this along with s. therapy the whole family could see the change in the child.
If you contact your local hse office they can give you more information.

If this is not the problem do the following.
Mammy does not like that boldness, mammy will count to 5 and if you don't stop you will get a slap. Give a slap on the hand or bottom.
Continue with this and Aidan will soon know that Mammy is boss. I know of some one with a child the same age and she has being doing this since he was small. He is good most of the time.

Keep a note of what you child is eating also - some children go wild after eating some foods. If you find this is the case keep Aidan away from them.

John Mason

Over the last few months I have tried time outs, corners, steps, you name it, we have tried it,

this jumped out at me - i think you should pick one punishment and stick to it because he is learning that if he kicks up enough, you will stop doing it.

but also he is 2 and his communication skill are not the best yet, it could be just pure frustration, that he cant explain what he wants or feels.

Have you thought about making mood cards? big colourful cards which show a basic range of emotions, explain what they are to him - like reading a book and talk about each mood - so when he gets frustrated all he has to do is point to one of the cards and you will have an idea of what is going on.

then again, it could just be the terrible 2's

metrovelvet

Can I ask you what is pissing him off so badly?

hoodwinked

i know alot of people think supernanny is a load of c**p but our just 2 year old had started doing similar things to what you are posting OP, i think its a combination of frustration over not being understood properly and 'terrible 2's' i started doing 'the naughty corner' ala supernanny and it works perfectly with my daughter,

and now we are at the stage where if she starts misbehaving i only need to ask her does she want to go on the naughty step and she thinks about it and goes and does something else instead...


it didn't start smoothly at first she tried acting up out and about because she felt there was no naughty step there,while she was as good as gold at home but once we started doing it everywhere she acted up she quickly realised the naughty corner was everywhere and now she simply stops,

there are still the odd times we do have to put her there but she is very much improved since we started doing it right.


EDIT: just noticed in your title you say bold child, please don't call him a bold child, i cant remember where i read/saw it, but it is supposedly really important you don't tell a child they are bold, its their actions are bold not them, i think i read it can be really damaging.

Moonbeam

I sometimes think positive re-enforcement works better rather then a naughty corner/step/chair it could be a thinking chair to think about why he is in trouble ,then discuss it after.
I think the most important bit is explaining to them why they are upsetting you and why what they are doing is unacceptable.

hoodwinked

Moonbeam wrote: »

I sometimes think positive re-enforcement works better rather then a naughty corner/step/chair it could be a thinking chair to think about why he is in trouble ,then discuss it after.
I think the most important bit is explaining to them why they are upsetting you and why what they are doing is unacceptable.

i agree with the positive re-enforcement, that's why when we put her there we explain calmly why she is there, give her a 2 minute time out (a minute for every year) and then remind her why she is there, she says sorry, and then we give her hugs and kisses tell her we love her and forget about it,

and its important to give her a warning first to give her a chance to make her own mind up, if she continues to do the wrong thing i agree with supernanny that it is important to let her know she has to be responsible for her own actions even from an early age, for a 2 year old she is very copped on in some areas in others then she is not, so we broach it all in a positive manner...situations and children all vary so much there is no real 'one thing fixes all'!

and i always thought parenting was easy

LadyMayBelle

I would be similar in thinking that a lot of his problem is communication; in order for him to communicate his feelings to you, as he cannot yet verbalise them sufficiently, he acts out, and acts out big! As another poster suggested, make some emotion cards, use colour; ask him which one shows you best how he is feeling; maybe even a homemade clock drawing with different pictures of people feeling differently. Is his frustration as big as a volcano or is he just feeling a little bit fed up..give him a crayon and scrap paper to show how angry he is…you’ve got to get creative and meet him where he is at.

Another suggestion I read about in ‘The Science of Parenting’ is learning to distinguish between real tantrums (use the above tools and rule out hunger, toothache, pain etc) and those not so real ones; when he is looking for attention. Learning to distinguish one from the other will help you learn to reinforce the positive behaviour and ignore the bad…yes it will be testing, but be consistent! You’ve already mentioned some really great ideas there that you have tried; reinvent and revisit. He sees already that he can get a reaction from you when he screams his little head off and causes you embarrassment.. don’t give in to him, ignore him and explain that he won’t be getting a treat/whatever. Praise the good behaviour. Granted you aren’t going to be able to whisk out crayons and the likes in Tesco, but there has to be other ideas you can come up with on the spot.

willow tree

as one of the posters said this too will pass.. definitely do not slap, its just bullying.. also the step is not a good idea.. i can see ive different approach to others but if you ignore your childs feeling they will grow into an adult who ignores their feelings.. i do think its agood idea to see if your child can communicate properly how they are feeling.. tell him you can see that he is feeling angry but you cant help him until he calms down.. remove him from situation, bring him to a room that he doesnt spend time in and say you will have a chat when he calms down. make sure you make up and you reinforce good feeling.. also distraction can work well depending.. my friend did bio energy with her lo and cranio sacral and said they worked well, good luck with it, its not easy;)

wolfpawnat

Thank you all for your replies.

He is very delayed in his speech, so to even ask him to point to a card is like me telling you to read Cantonese, so sadly that is not something that can work I am afraid

He is getting frustrated when I say no to things, such as him trying to grab yet another biscuit (after a previous 4!) Also when on public transport he wants to be allowed out of his buggy like other children, but this is not an option as he refuses to sit on a chair and tries to run around the carriage of the luas/train/DART/etc. I forced approx 70 people yesterday to have to listen to my son's extremely high pitched screech from Dublin to Ennis and it is not fair to them, they should not have to listen to that sort of noise, nor should I have to endure my ear drums nearly rupturing!

No, I do not call my son bold, his actions are bold, and he is told that they are bold and why they are so. But he himself is never called the bold one, though I do not believe in the modern day mantra of over coddling and causing children to be over precious, it is rather irritating IMHO, then again, my attitude of if a limb isn't broken your fine attitude does not suit over mothers, and I respect that.

I have slapped on occasion, always a light one on the hand, but kept for truly dangerous occasions, e.g. trying to go at the cooker when it is 200 degrees celcius, trying to run onto a road and trying to pull at stuff on a counter to cause it to fall (I am always terrified that someday it will be a boiling pot, though I am always vigilant to ensure this not happen).

I used to find putting him into his cot without saying or doing anything anyway aggressive with him with teddy and letting him scream it out to teddy, then when he calms down, go in and be all back to normal and tell him why he was put in and to get out the fee was one kiss and a cuddle and then continue the day as we were before with no more mention of it was working fantastic, usually we would have only one, maybe on a bad day two fits then, but now he is no longer in the cot he is seriously resembling an anti-Christ!

I have always since day one known what each cry and tantrum meant, it has at times resulting in mothers thinking I am cruel, but once I say "I know you are just doing that for attention" he would stop mid wail, (much to many peoples amusement I may add). So I can tell that these resent "super tantrums" are not actual issues, just him being annoyed at not getting his way.

As for the post where I was told to be consistent, it is not that I tried a technique for 2-3 days and it failed so I moved on, I know my child is only human and any change to routine is a learning curve for him it is just I would try it for 4-6 weeks and it would fail, so there is a time you have to call it quits too if something is not working

Thanks for all your replies, they are very appreciated!!

willow tree

oh that is stressful. i really feel for you and we all have different approaches and the little ones have their own personalities.. i would recommend david coleman, i think hes brilliant, you can email sean moncrief.hes on wednesdays, gives great advice,hth.. good luck
it does sound like he gets so frustrated trying to communicate, poor little fella

Kent Brockman

I'll give my 2c for what its worth. Children need to learn that there is consequences their actions . The consequences to doing something bold should be something they do not like.

When my son was aged 4, I was working long hours. One day He had an unmerciful tantrum the likes of which I had never wittnessed from any child. My wife told me to ignore it and it was a regular occurrance while I was at work.

I stood back for 40mins while my wife tried bold corner/bold step putting him in his room etc which only made it worse. When she tried to make him stay in the hall he kicked the door repeatedly.

I had enough grabbed him by the arm and slapped him twice (hard) on the cheek of his bottom. He sat on the floor and started to roar. I raised my hand again and said I was counting to 5 and he would get another slap if he didnt behave.
He stopped immediately and went and sat on the bold step by himself. I called him in and said there was no bold step in this house because there is no bold boys here.
He said he was sorry , hugged me and said he would be good. I said I was sorry for slapping but its a daddys job to make sure his children dont grow up to be bold.

I have never hit him since (he is 8 now) but when he acts up I explain camly that its my job to make sure he grows up to be a good person and that if he doesnt stop whatever he is at I will have to slap him.
Once I start the count down 5-4-3-..... he immediately tows the line.

This worked for me.

LadyMayBelle

It sounds like you are having a super tough time OP
You mentioned his speech is delayed.. is he seeing anyone about that yet? Can you get a referral? I have worked with kiddies who are well tiny with learning difficulties and they can manage to point or grab a card..the idea is that it's not about reading or anything and you work with him when he is in a better mood so he knows what they are about. If you manage to get anywhere with a speech and language therapist that will be an option. A lot of it is down to his communication and lack of ability to express his frustrations, I do think..but again only a guess..

Great you have sussed out his 'attention seeking' tantrums...kids are clever
I know a colleague of mine has a little girl aged three, and when she has tantrums, be it on the way to the swimming pool or whatever, she turns the car around and by god there is no way she goes back on her decision and explains it to her little one.

Maybe someone can advise you on how to manage those DART/Bus nightmares,

Really tough times you have

Ayla

My youngest (21 months) has started something similar recently but not quite as severe as the OP (god I hope it doesn't go there! :eek:)

I know my daughter's tantrums originate from being frustrated & am trying to head them off by keeping the communication open. Can one of the posters who suggested the "mood cards" provide any more info or a link to where I can get some? This idea interests me, and because she understands very clearly what we're saying I think it may help her communicate back.

Also, OP, have you considered the idea of baby sign language? Even just very basic signs (similar to the mood cards?). That way even if your son's speech is coming on slowly he can still "talk" to you.

yellowlabrador

My daughter had terrible tantrums at the same age. It was pure frustration.
What I started doing was telling her in advance what we were going to do that day. I also always kept the afternoon free, and we had fun activities. So she knew we'd be going to the park, or baking cakes, or visiting a friend etc. A regular routine is also important at that age, mealtimes, bedtimes, little rituals like reading a book, maybe a special song to sing when going for a walk etc. also helps. Distraction also helps, ie' let's count all the blue cars on the way to the shop etc.'
The thing is, at that age, they know they can wind you up to the extent that you might give in to their whim. The other day a friend of mine with a 2 year old son was in tears, because he wouldn't come out with her. He wouldn't get in the car, he wouldn't walk, he wouldn't go in the buggy. She got more and more frazzled and he was nearly fitting with anger, holding his breath, screaming.
Grandad stepped in, and babysat, but of course then he wanted to go with his mamy. My advice was to stay calm, and decide what issue was the most important. She could have nipped the tantrum in the bud by postponing her trip by 20 mins, using the naughty step, rather than let the tantrum develop to such an extent. The trip was not that important, it could have been done at any time, instead both were exhausted.

LadyMayBelle

Ayla: any of these really:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=feelings+cards+children&x=0&y=0

http://www.castlehill-p.schools.nsw.edu.au/Family,%20Body,%20Feelings%20and%20Senses.pdf

http://www.kidslikeme.co.uk/emotions-cue-cards-i6545.html

I use the blobs but they are for older children, maybe 6-10. Try get ones of children's faces, if they would interest your kid a bit more..or alternatively, make some.

John Mason

Ayla wrote: »

Can one of the posters who suggested the "mood cards" provide any more info or a link to where I can get some? This idea interests me, and because she understands very clearly what we're saying I think it may help her communicate back.

get disposable paper plates and paint them yourself, you could get your daughter to help you. stick lollipop sticks on the them

you could have happy, sad, angry,upset, hungry faces etc.

Ayla

Thanks all - I was thinking to make them myself just needed some design ideas (I'm not the most creative!) Will try them this weekend

stovelid

hoodwinked wrote: »

EDIT: just noticed in your title you say bold child, please don't call him a bold child, i cant remember where i read/saw it, but it is supposedly really important you don't tell a child they are bold, its their actions are bold not them, i think i read it can be really damaging.

Telling a child they're naughty is damaging eh?

Sleepy

Have you two tiers of punishment OP?

One level e.g. being ignored / bold step for being bold and another e.g. no television for the day / teddy going up on the shelf for acting up when being reprimanded?

LadyMayBelle

stovelid wrote: »

Telling a child they're naughty is damaging eh?

No necessarily but possibly. A child scribbling on a wall is doing something fun in his mind but his action is going to cause upset to someone..he isn't bold but what he did is naughty.. action and the child are different.. even if he is doing it 'intentionally to get attention'..that's not him being being 'naughty' is it?

Only a crazy personw would be able to keep up minding their wording in front of their child all the time but it's worth keeping it in mind.

stovelid

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

N

Only a crazy personw would be able to keep up minding their wording in front of their child all the time

.

metrovelvet

stovelid wrote: »

Telling a child they're naughty is damaging eh?

Yeah it can be, depending on the level of sensitivity of the child.

Kids think 'im good just because I exist,' which is lovely, its innocent.

So, without corrupting an essential [I AM] sense of themselves, it is recommended you say 'GOOD JOB' instead of 'GOOD BOY OR GOOD GIRL.' Same goes for derogatory comments too, it should reflect the deed not the essence of who the child is.

I hate supernanny and I hate the bold step, I think it's humilating and they get so upset they have lost the sense of what is going on. Sometimes nothing works for a while.

Sometimes just explaining things works too. But they have short memories so ....


Re train journeys: Your son is only young and boys are active. I spent 6 hours on a transatlantic with an 18 mos old walking up and down the aisle. Seriously. No wailing, crying or nothing, but I had to keep him occupied. For trains, you have to keep them occupied and also let them walk, and walk with them.

My son had delayed speech too, but he was always able to understand so that helped and good at communicating in other ways.

Distract, distract,distract, distract.

Every kid is different though, there are some kids you can negotiate with and there are some kids you cannot give into once or you are doomed. Only you know your child well enough to decide which camp he falls into.

mariebeth

OP, I don't mean to alarm you, but your post is sending off warning signals to me of autism. Autism is a problem with communication, I recently did 10 weeks work experience in a school for children with autism, and a lot of them exhibited behaviours such as the high pitched scream or pulling apart things. With the delay in communication I personally would be worried, and I would suggest asking your gp for advice on getting your son assessed, and maybe getting speech and language therapy if you can. I know 10 weeks work placement doesn't make me an expert, and I don't want to alarm you, just to make you aware that there might be another cause of his behaviour rather than being 'bold'

wolfpawnat

metrovelvet wrote: »

Re train journeys: Your son is only young and boys are active. I spent 6 hours on a transatlantic with an 18 mos old walking up and down the aisle. Seriously. No wailing, crying or nothing, but I had to keep him occupied. For trains, you have to keep them occupied and also let them walk, and walk with them.

My son had delayed speech too, but he was always able to understand so that helped and good at communicating in other ways.

Distract, distract,distract, distract.

Every kid is different though, there are some kids you can negotiate with and there are some kids you cannot give into once or you are doomed. Only you know your child well enough to decide which camp he falls into.

Sadly I cannot do this with him, he runs up and down the aisles causing more irritation to other passengers and he is still too young to last more than 5 min with toys and books (believe me I have tried ) He is one of the children that will test you and knows that he can shame you into not being as strict in public!

mariebeth wrote: »

OP, I don't mean to alarm you, but your post is sending off warning signals to me of autism. Autism is a problem with communication, I recently did 10 weeks work experience in a school for children with autism, and a lot of them exhibited behaviours such as the high pitched scream or pulling apart things. With the delay in communication I personally would be worried, and I would suggest asking your gp for advice on getting your son assessed, and maybe getting speech and language therapy if you can. I know 10 weeks work placement doesn't make me an expert, and I don't want to alarm you, just to make you aware that there might be another cause of his behaviour rather than being 'bold'

He has been assessed and he is perfect and even advanced in all areas except talking. He is too good at telling you what he wants without talking so it is not an issue, just stop giving him what he wants straight away and make him work to get it (try and say the word a few times). He is far from autistic according to the consultant, he went in to her office, went over, and sat on her lap and had a full "conversation" with her (which was hilarious), She dismissed it after about 5 minutes when he was also trying to play with the other kids

January

Ah sure I could have told you that the little maggot is not autistic... I love how he tries to have the conversations when we're in the play centre

It's just a lot of perseverance and patience!

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Sadly I cannot do this with him, he runs up and down the aisles causing more irritation to other passengers and he is still too young to last more than 5 min with toys and books (believe me I have tried ) He is one of the children that will test you and knows that he can shame you into not being as strict in public!

I dont think he is too young to last more than 5 mons with books and toys. He just sounds not that interested in them.

Is he only like this in public? If he knows he is shaming you, the answer is in not being ashamed. Give him a scolding in public. Or only practise at home what you are willing to do in public.

cynder

Been there done that, now his receiving behavioural management from ceis. My lads speech receptive/phonological and expressive are in the 1st percentile. His understanding and communication is 100% the cause. You have to find a way past that barrier. scolding him wont work , he doesn't understand it. his looking for a reaction and he gets one even if its a bad reaction like you scolding him, each child is different, if i was you i would talk to your PHN and request an assesment of need be carried out by the early intervention services.

CK2010

if his tantrums are about being told no to something you could try introducing what i do- i think he may be a little young yet for it to make a difference but it will be a good habit to be in as he gets older.

the way it works is if shes asking for something and i say no she'll get annoyed at me because to her im just saying no without understanding her need/want for it- im dismissing her straight out and so she has a tantrum to make me see how she feels ie. 'I WANT I WANT' :rolleyes:

so what i do is if she asks for a toy in a shop il say something like 'that is a nice toy and i know you'd like to have it but mammy has no money today' or something along those lines to make it clear to him that 1) you've heard what they're asking for 2) you know why they're asking and 3) the reason why you're saying no.

obviously its a bit tedious and not applicable to every situation but i find that when i actually meet her half way and take the time to make her realise im on the same page as her she desnt seem to feel like a tantrum is needed to make her point of view be known. its good to start it early on because sometimes we forget that kids dont always have the logic to understand that we know how they feel, so we have to make it really clear so they dont feel frustrated.

at the end of the day though every parent has their own way of doing things with each child, what works for one family wont for another and sometimes one technique whch seems great for mammy isnt necessarily best for the child. its just about finding what works for both of you.

my girl is now old enough to be warned by counting from 3. neither of us have ever stated what happens when i finish counting down but because it works for us we've never needed to find out!! :pac:

hope you get it sorted soon though whatever way you find works.
also, alot of people i know are big fans of distraction which is fine if your child is very young but once my girl was old enough to be aware of her own behaviour i always preferred to deal with the issue at hand and not put it aside for the sake of a moments peace. like i said though thats just me.

Irish_Elect_Eng

CK2010 wrote: »

my girl is now old enough to be warned by counting from 3. neither of us have ever stated what happens when i finish counting down but because it works for us we've never needed to find out!! :pac:

I laughed when I read this, we did the same with ours.....

But then came the day when I overheard my eldest (8) explaining to the the youngest (3) "If Dad finishes counting and you are not good he will sell you to the man from Tesco"

So to avoid having them hiding in terror when the poor Tesco On-line Delivery Guy, I had to make up some real punishments.

Ayla

It's like when we go in a shop w/ fragile things & tell our eldest (4.5) that she has to put her hands behind her back b/c if anything breaks we'll have to sell her to pay for it. She knows we don't really mean it, and it probably sounds bad to anyone else, but it gets the point across. :D

cynder

I doubt very much reasoning will work, due to lack of comprehension, visual clues were inly just introduced to my guy now age 4 and a half due to lack of understanding. Routine helps even though our house is very spontaneous, preschool has been godsend.

Trying to explain why your saying no can result in a meltdown, your just prolonging their agony. Distraction helps and sometimes picking them up and doing a runner.


My guy has come on leaps and bounds, my main issue now is with him absconding.

wolfpawnat

grindelwald wrote: »

Been there done that, now his receiving behavioural management from ceis. My lads speech receptive/phonological and expressive are in the 1st percentile. His understanding and communication is 100% the cause. You have to find a way past that barrier. scolding him wont work , he doesn't understand it. his looking for a reaction and he gets one even if its a bad reaction like you scolding him, each child is different, if i was you i would talk to your PHN and request an assesment of need be carried out by the early intervention services.

I did, she feels that at 2 years and 4 months, not talking is not a problem. SO nothing I can do, I have tried her and the GP and both don't seem to think it is a problem.

lgc2010

You must be worn out, giving out can tire you out so much! I think you should get a second opinion on your childs speech, my son is 3 and and 2 and 4 months he had a good grasp of english, getting a second opinion would maybe help.
My nephew is 13 and wen he was the same age as your little one, he was exactly the same, my sister struggled to cope and could never bring him anywhere, she kept going back to the doctor/health nurse and they made her feel like she was a nuisance. It cotinued for 2 years and wen he went to school she got to talk to the vice principal who was also the special needs teacher, she expressed her worry an explained the letters she had written to try get help etc, he did an assesment and agreed that his speech was bad and understandin at that. he is now in a better school an was diagnosed with adhd, and is doing great, like any other child but learning more than he wud have done in a mainstream school an my sister could relax a bit more.
I am not saying that your son has adhd or anything of the sort but what I am trying to say is never take the first no you get from a doc as final, it should always be double checked.
Your should be ready for playschool so keep an eye on his progress,like potty training etc.
You should also check out rollercoaster.ie, they give detailed assesmnents as to where your child should be at a certain age.
Good luck!

cynder

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I did, she feels that at 2 years and 4 months, not talking is not a problem. SO nothing I can do, I have tried her and the GP and both don't seem to think it is a problem.

GO back to the PHN and demand the assessment of need. Tell her she is not qualified to make the diagnoses. Insist on it, say your not leaving without the referral/assessment of need.

wolfpawnat

grindelwald wrote: »

GO back to the PHN and demand the assessment of need. Tell her she is not qualified to make the diagnoses. Insist on it, say your not leaving without the referral/assessment of need.

It was the Speech and Language Therapist that said that, not the PHN, sorry I should have specified!

cynder

then go to the phn and request the assessment of need!

your guy sound like how my guy was, my guy now sees the speech therapist, early intervention educator and the psychologist, he still has issues but with all the help he is getting he is coming on a lot.

If you tell the PHN that your concerned and that you want him assessed to see if there is anything else behind it rather than just speech, she will refer you and you can fill out the assessment of need. You will need all this info when your child starts school, he will have to have both speech and psychological assessments (for resource hours and possible sna if he is a danger to himself) and also if you send him to preschool and he needs a preschool assistant the only way to get it is through the early intervention services. The SLP wont be able to get him a preschool assistant (as far as i know, i might be wrong).



A child can be referred to the early intervention services when displaying difficulties in 2 disciplines, yours is in both behavioral and speech and language. The sooner you get on top of it the better, there is a speech and language course that i did as well it was the hannen more than words course, you might find that helpful.

also try introducing sign language, my fella made up his own signs (which in some cases were hard to interpret), he would point to his hand rapidly if he wanted something, i would say show me and he would bring me to what he wanted, (he didn't point till he was 2.5 years so finding what he wanted was sometimes a nightmare). Use only 1 or 2 words when talking to him, dont overload him with words he just wont understand.

Use pictures if he will look at them, to find out what he wants (my fella would not and would rip books and pages to pieces, he had no attention span what so ever, he was a wild boy)

Its a long road and i didn't see real progress with my fella until just before his 4th birthday, form ages 2-3.5 i saw ZERO progress, preschool worked wonders but only since his 4th birthday before that he was a nightmare in there, he learnt the routine and his words are starting to come and he has settled (the preschool also work around him to a certain degree so there is flexibility), he starts big school in september and he is going to be a nightmare again, but im sure after xmas he will start to come around to it, his attention span is going to be a major issue along with absconding. he due for assessment in jan to see if main stream school is working for him or if he needs to go to a special school, also then will we know more about the ADHD factor that has been hanging over our heads since he was 2.


How is your sons attention?

Ayla

Out of fairness, OP, in your original post you mentioned that the horrific behaviour has been over the last 10 days. Before you go to hell & beyond getting every assessment under the sun, think - has your son been this way from his early days, or has it only suddenly appeared?

Children are very behavioural from day 1, and although *how* they respond & what they respond to will change over time, if there is a baddy in the background surely you'd have signs over the last 2.4 years?

If you've had a niggling feeling for the last year or so, then by all means proceed with getting assessed & obtain whatever support is out there. But if this is only rearing its head now, perhaps it could - possibly - just be a stage. I personally know kids who didn't speak a word until they were over 3, then suddenly they started speaking (and in full sentences!). "Delayed" speech doesn't necessarily indicate a bigger issue.

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

Children are very behavioural from day 1, and although *how* they respond & what they respond to will change over time, if there is a baddy in the background surely you'd have signs over the last 2.4 years?

.

We only copped on to how bad our lad was after his 2 year check up with the PHN, and then things got worse and worse until he was 3 and 3/4 when things started to calm down.

If you can see signs at day 1 then all kids would be diagnosed with autism/adhd after birth or at 1 or at 2, but it doesn't work like that. some kids are not diagnosed with autism till they are 4 or over and most kids are not diagnosed with adhd till they are over 5. (not that im saying your son has either, im saying that behavior is not that obvious in a 1 year old or 2 year old)



when you accept you child has an issue the best bet it to reach out into every avenue to get the best for your child, the longer you leave it the worst it will get. Why oh why do they call it early intervention, its not a case of just ignore it and it will go away.

A child with speech issues has many things going on, none of us here are professionals, im only giving advice based on my own experience with a child with a severe speech and language delay that had autistic characteristics and adhd characteristics.

The best bet is to get assessments done if they come back and say nothing is wrong, then fantastic! you can put your mind to rest. at least you know and its not in the back of your head nagging at you. A 1 year old does not throw a tantrum like a 2 year old.

Ayla

wolfpawnat wrote: »

He has been assessed and he is perfect and even advanced in all areas except talking. He is too good at telling you what he wants without talking so it is not an issue, just stop giving him what he wants straight away and make him work to get it (try and say the word a few times). He is far from autistic according to the consultant, he went in to her office, went over, and sat on her lap and had a full "conversation" with her (which was hilarious), She dismissed it after about 5 minutes when he was also trying to play with the other kids

Grindlewad, perhaps it would be helpful to read all of the OP's posts.

cynder

but what im am saying is that the early intervention team can help with behavioural issues and speech, (but you need the assessment of need first) or of course you could just get help with speech and ignore bad behavior and see what happens!


Im not saying he should be assessed for asd or adhd my above post was saying that things are not clear cut at the age of 1. The older they get the clearer the situation becomes. also if the assessment for need is submitted any other assesments that need to be carried out further down the line will be done within the time limit, where as if your on the public waiting list it could be well over a year.

gargleblaster

OP I would like to offer a few suggestions, if you haven't tried them already.

First is removing the source of the frustration. You mentioned reaching for a fourth biscuit. Perhaps you might try keeping the biscuits hidden away, and when it's time for him to have some, only give him a few on a plate. That way there's no way for him to be tempted by a whole box or jar of them close by. Like in someone's stones in the road example, it's not always as simple as that, but when it is it's a very easy way to avoid blowups.

Another thing that worked brilliantly for me was distraction. Once I saw the first warning signs of frustration I would suggest we go outside and play, or offer to read a book to them, or some other activity (fingerpainting, modeling clay, etc.) Setting these things up where you're close by to watch and participate could work wonders on changing his focus entirely.

As for tantrums on the bus, I would simply say "this isn't the playground" as a means of explaining why the behavior isn't acceptable. He is very young but he will catch on. And some parents might balk at this, but I would probably also offer a special treat for good behavior. And I would also shower the child with affection and praise after the first peaceful trip.

It sounds like he might be just getting very frustrated. Does he have any control over things? I mean control that he knows about? Sometimes kids just want to feel like they're in control, so if he's not aware, maybe you could try making it clear. Offering him choices where he can make them (a few options for him to pick - snacks, clothes, activities) so that he can decide a few things for himself and feel like he's 'in charge' of a few things at least.

He sounds like a handful, but you'll get there. Good luck!

CK2010

grindelwald wrote: »

I doubt very much reasoning will work, due to lack of comprehension, visual clues were inly just introduced to my guy now age 4 and a half due to lack of understanding. Routine helps even though our house is very spontaneous, preschool has been godsend.

Trying to explain why your saying no can result in a meltdown, your just prolonging their agony. Distraction helps and sometimes picking them up and doing a runner.


My guy has come on leaps and bounds, my main issue now is with him absconding.

the reasoning wasnt the main part of that though, its the reiterating that matters.
repeating what your child is saying to you so they dont feel like they're not being heard. so they know you are listening. by repeating what they want/say its reassuring them that you know what they are saying to you.

its a subtle way of crossing one thing off the list of frustrations by getting over the communication barrier involved in tantrums (which are usually the childs way of trying to make themselves heard) so by you letting them know they are being heard it reduces the reason for the tantrum.

the reasoning only comes into play when they're older.

wolfpawnat

gargleblaster wrote: »

First is removing the source of the frustration. You mentioned reaching for a fourth biscuit. Perhaps you might try keeping the biscuits hidden away, and when it's time for him to have some, only give him a few on a plate. That way there's no way for him to be tempted by a whole box or jar of them close by. Like in someone's stones in the road example, it's not always as simple as that, but when it is it's a very easy way to avoid blowups.

I have the biscuits in a press that is locked. He has nearly broken the childproof clasp completely and if he knows they are there, he will do everything he can to drag you over to the press, he will throw things at the press and throw a tantrum in front of it, knowing that what he wants is inside it ( I swear to God, he has a nose like a bloodhound!)

gargleblaster wrote: »

Another thing that worked brilliantly for me was distraction. Once I saw the first warning signs of frustration I would suggest we go outside and play, or offer to read a book to them, or some other activity (fingerpainting, modeling clay, etc.) Setting these things up where you're close by to watch and participate could work wonders on changing his focus entirely.

I try to, but sometimes I am doing things around the house and cannot just facilitate every fit he decides he wants to pull!

gargleblaster wrote: »

As for tantrums on the bus, I would simply say "this isn't the playground" as a means of explaining why the behavior isn't acceptable. He is very young but he will catch on. And some parents might balk at this, but I would probably also offer a special treat for good behavior. And I would also shower the child with affection and praise after the first peaceful trip.

I give him treats daily (one a day, when he behaves) but I say "we are indoors, we cannot yell, it is not nice for other people"

gargleblaster wrote: »

It sounds like he might be just getting very frustrated. Does he have any control over things? I mean control that he knows about? Sometimes kids just want to feel like they're in control, so if he's not aware, maybe you could try making it clear. Offering him choices where he can make them (a few options for him to pick - snacks, clothes, activities) so that he can decide a few things for himself and feel like he's 'in charge' of a few things at least.

He chooses most things he does, t-shirts, socks, food, etc.

cynder

CK2010 wrote: »

the reasoning wasnt the main part of that though, its the reiterating that matters.
repeating what your child is saying to you so they dont feel like they're not being heard. so they know you are listening. by repeating what they want/say its reassuring them that you know what they are saying to you.

its a subtle way of crossing one thing off the list of frustrations by getting over the communication barrier involved in tantrums (which are usually the childs way of trying to make themselves heard) so by you letting them know they are being heard it reduces the reason for the tantrum.

the reasoning only comes into play when they're older.

Funny i was told by the psychologist that talking makes it worse, just infuriates them! im to give my fella hugs to calm him, once his past a certain point in the tantrum its pointless talking, in the very beginning to prevent the tantrum yes but not once the tantrum has started.

Each child is different what works for one wont work for another.... thankfully its working for me:D but then my guy didn't have tantrums he had meltdowns there is a big difference, we dont get them every day now, once every 2 weeks.

cynder

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I have the biscuits in a press that is locked. He has nearly broken the childproof clasp completely and if he knows they are there, he will do everything he can to drag you over to the press, he will throw things at the press and throw a tantrum in front of it, knowing that what he wants is inside it ( I swear to God, he has a nose like a bloodhound!)

.

Took my guy to age 3.5 to understand NO MORE! His quite good now in that regard, it does get better, another year and there will be a big difference.

Ayla

OP, would you say that this behaviour has been going on for long or (as said in your original post) has it only reached a head in the last couple of weeks? Does your gut tell you there's something else going on, or are you looking for coping mechanisms for getting through this stage?

CK2010

grindelwald wrote: »

Funny i was told by the psychologist that talking makes it worse, just infuriates them! im to give my fella hugs to calm him, once his past a certain point in the tantrum its pointless talking, in the very beginning to prevent the tantrum yes but not once the tantrum has started.

Each child is different what works for one wont work for another.... thankfully its working for me:D but then my guy didn't have tantrums he had meltdowns there is a big difference, we dont get them every day now, once every 2 weeks.

i dont think you're understanding what im saying- its a technique to prevent the little ones tantrums tantrums. by communicating and reiterating back to them what they are wantingor whatever, so that frustration (due to perceived lack of understanding on mums behalf) doesnt cause a tantrum. its not reasoning or trying to talk them out of one its so they dont feel the need to have a tantrum in the first place.

talking during a tantrum is pointless yes, but like i said i find that so is trying to distract a child from one because its basically rewarding their behaviour IMO (if i wail X amount of times il get a nice big hug from mammy and maybe some extra play time too). but as i said i dont have the misfortune of dealing with tantrums on a regular basis so you have to do what works for your family and what gives you the most peace! :pac:

cynder

CK2010 wrote: »

i dont think you're understanding what im saying- its a technique to prevent the little ones tantrums tantrums. by communicating and reiterating back to them what they are wantingor whatever, so that frustration (due to perceived lack of understanding on mums behalf) doesnt cause a tantrum. its not reasoning or trying to talk them out of one its so they dont feel the need to have a tantrum in the first place.

talking during a tantrum is pointless yes, but like i said i find that so is trying to distract a child from one because its basically rewarding their behaviour IMO (if i wail X amount of times il get a nice big hug from mammy and maybe some extra play time too). but as i said i dont have the misfortune of dealing with tantrums on a regular basis so you have to do what works for your family and what gives you the most peace! :pac:

did you not see the part, where i said it will work to prevent a tantrum (but also to add in some cases only)

There is a difference between a meltdown down and a tantrum. a meltdown needs hugs a tantrum does not. Distraction is not a reward, my fella refused to go into preschool, he wailed the place down tried to abscond and went in to a full blown meltdown, i got him into the cloak room and let him hide under the coats until him calmed down enough, during this time a sang nursery rhymes, he crawled out inch by inch and lay his head on my lap, i then talked about what i like doing in preschool, like lego and sand, he got and idea went in happy out, that was over 45 mins, but he went in happy, that didn't work first when we left the house or when we got there, it did after him calmed down.

Since then we have had no more issues with going to preschool. if my guy has a meltdown im to move him to a quiet area and let him work through it, plenty of hugs and rocking. Cant do that in a shop so i leave the shop and go home.

The preschool assistant that my son has also does the same thing as i did, he also has a blanket for when his stressed. After all our hard work he can go a week without a tuntrum at school.