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Interviews with British target shooters
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01-06-2011 12:35am#1First up a video interview with Michelle Smith. Some of you might remember her from 2007 as the first woman ever to win the Earl Roberts Trophy (the British Small-bore Rifle Championship trophy from Bisley week, for those going "the what now?").
http://livestre.am/NMCC
And then there's this interview on the BBC website with James Huckle, who's currently one of the best air rifle shooters in the UK:London 2012: young James Huckle shooting for gold
By Chris Whyatt
BBC Sport
Huckle has broken a 22-year-old record held by the legendary Malcolm Cooper
"Son, why not get a tennis racquet?" the doting Essex mother of Olympic shooting hopeful James Huckle begged. "Or a football?"
Fast forward to London 2012, though, and her talented 20-year-old could be momentarily putting down the gun he eventually persuaded his parents he should have to let a historic gold medal settle around his neck only 50 miles from their home town of Harlow.
Think quickly of shooting. If you are in Britain, it is probable certain images flood the mind. Dark green waxy jackets. Exuberant cut-glass hurrahs. Clambering four-by-fours. Trappings of elitist wealth.
Now think of guns. Youth crime, often in the inner cities, may spring to the fore. Dark cycles of sad poverty. Drugs.
But, with National Shooting Week upon us - its main goal being to enable anyone across Britain to try shooting, safely, for the first time - is it time to cast off these quick stereotypes, especially while the opportunity is there to try out an Olympic and Paralympic discipline?
Innovative Huckle - who will be one of the youngest rifle shooters at London 2012 should he, as expected, clinch Olympic qualification - makes it plain that he did not get into shooting because of any deep-rooted family tradition, or 'breeding' as one might put it.
That the sport is, in fact, as accessible as most others.
Beyond that, the eloquent 'Essex Ambassador' is an Olympic star in the making: young, articulate, not afraid to share an opinion - and with a real story to tell. Neither did it do any harm breaking a long-standing British final record - set by legendary double Olympic gold medallist Malcolm Cooper in 1989 - in the Three Positions Rifle at the World Cup in Korea earlier this year. A breakthrough achievement.
This is his colourful insight into the world of competitive shooting.
HOW I GOT INTO SHOOTING
"I was intrigued, I just really wanted to have a go when I was 12 or 13. Because we lived near the countryside, my dad had an air rifle for vermin control. Something he bought on the spur of the moment which he didn't really end up using.
"He wasn't massively keen on me just having a go on that, obviously, so he thought the best place for me to go was a club. I literally just went on Google and typed in 'shooting'.
"Your nearest club is the best place to start learning the safety aspects, and also to meet other guys who can tell you about the sport.
"The club I joined was an air rifle-only club, which did not specialise in any Olympic events - it was more for field shooting people. At this point, I was completely unaware it was an Olympic sport.
"I was quite happy doing judo and tennis up to a national level - and was thinking they'd be the sports I'd really like to do at the Olympics.
"But they asked me to compete, and I placed first in the juniors with a score that would have beaten the seniors at the British Championships for a field target shooting event.
"That's when I knew, as a competitor, that I was not too bad at it.
"Then one guy at the world championships, where I was second, said 'you're a great standing shooter, do you know it's an Olympic sport?' I'm not from a wealthy background, I hadn't shot any animals, I was doing it for fun.
"But when he told me to head to Bisley [the National Shooting Centre], I did it as soon as possible.
"It took a lot of convincing my parents initially. I needed a couple of Christmases and birthdays to save up for a rifle of my own, and make them realise this wasn't just a passing phase.
"They had said 'no - you don't need a gun - you're doing well with your tennis and judo, shooting is far too dangerous'.
"But, basically, it's just a lack of understanding and knowledge of the sport which brings that kind of fear into people. Inherently, its massively safe. Officially, it's the second safest sport on the Olympic calendar in terms of its ratio of injuries."
WHY BRITAIN HAS AN PERCEPTION PROBLEM
"Nearly every family in Germany has a gun, it's the equivalent of something like golf for them out there - a bit of a family sport too.
"And in European countries, where they've done National Service, almost every male has done something with a gun. Switzerland for example, but especially Germany - where it's much more of a sporting, shooting-related country.
"Over there, anyone can go and shoot for a day at a range - and it's not especially expensive to do so.
"In Germany it seems to have really caught on as a spectator sport too. You're allowed as much noise as possible, and plenty of cameras around the shooters.
"They also devise fun and games around the shooting, so it really appeals to the mainstream audience. Most importantly, they've really embraced it as a safe sport - that helps massively.
"In Britain, we've got this stereotyped view of people with guns as villains, as a nasty person. That you can only possibly want to own a gun to hurt someone. But that's not the case.
"In the same way that a javelin was invented to spear animals, I'm sure you wouldn't judge someone throwing them at an Olympics as someone who goes hunting animals. Unfortunately, we do base our stereotypes on the traditional side of things - but other countries have moved on from that now."
SURVIVING WITHOUT FUNDING
"I'm not funded [by British Shooting]. But my Mum and Dad are very supportive, and I work for them.
"They've got their own business making aircraft placards and stickers. I'm involved in the design and manufacturing process, and distribution. I'm a general dogsbody really!
"At the moment, I'm [still] trying to learn every job. A typical day would involve designing the label or placard - 'Do Not Sit Here' or seat numbers - then go round into the manufacturing phase, screen printing the image onto a piece of poly carbonate plastic, then laminating it with fire-retardant glue.
"Then you got the paperwork and accounts side, which I'm still learning. It's a great thing to do to take my mind off sport for a while. But, same as anyone else, I'd far prefer to be out shooting [engaging in one's passion] the whole time. I embrace it for the break it gives me, though.
"I'm also lucky enough to get some funding from the Team Essex Ambassador Awards. They give me £6,500 - which is a massive sum - and in return I go round visiting schools promoting sport. It's helped me fantastically. Without that support I wouldn't be shooting today."
PIONEERING TRAINING METHODS
"I do train at a shooting centre in Romford. But I also train in our garden in Harlow, where we've got garages down the back side where my Dad keeps some cars. There's a small alleyway, only a couple of metres wide but most importantly 10m long.
"And I actually use an electronic simulator, I'm not actually firing any bullets. Its just purely a computer-orientated programme so, it's as quiet as it can be really. None of the neighbours probably know it exists.
"It's so handy because usually, in shooting, you fire the shot and get the result - and that's it. You hear a bang, look at the target, and see where it's gone.
"But that'd be like knowing a football match finished 2-0 to one side, and nothing else. We all know it could be a really lucky goal went in, or one team absolutely dominated.
"Yet with this computer programme you can see the process, not just the result.
"The complex ballistics around how a bullet reaches the target is far too quick to comprehend, otherwise. It's basically a laser at the end of your rifle that you're shooting at a sensor on the target - and it shows you where all of the movements were leading up to that shot. That's massively important to determine where the shot is placed.
"The most important thing for me is that it really defines your technique. It's amazing to see the variety of ways in which you can get a 10. You can really start to unpick the bits of your technique that always work, and the bits that are a bit lucky.
"In Britain, and possibly in most of Europe, it wasn't that popular until three or four years ago. The technology was developed by the Russian national team, and almost simultaneously by the Chinese national team, and they were very secretive in the 1990s about it.
"So it's amazing that they've been able to mass produce it for other shooters. A lot of the new generation find it very helpful, but some old school traditionalists still prefer to use trial and error - nothing technical, just repetitions.
"Abroad, more and more now, coaches are finding it's a very good way to analyse people's technique - and ultimately gain success in the future. In Britain, it's not that common. I'm pretty much the only person who uses it."
BREAKING LEGENDARY MALCOLM COOPER'S RECORD
"When I first came into the sport, everyone talked about Malcolm Cooper.
"Especially when I decided to take up the Three Position, which is really the blue riband event because its deemed the hardest - you need to master the three positions [prone, kneeling and standing] all right on the money on the one day.
"He's such a legend and hero, and there's so many myths and rumours about how he trained, and his commitment. I don't think you can be around the sport for long without his name cropping up in conversation.
"So it was unbelievable when I broke his record. I thought it was so out of reach I didn't even bother looking at what it was. I was just completely unaware, just knowing it had been set by one of the best final shooters in the world.
"But when my coach came up to me to tell me - it was crazy. It meant so much to me, taking on the hardest event and rivalling the legends."
RACE FOR OLYMPIC QUALIFICATION
"I've just been at a World Cup event in Fort Benning, a huge United States military range near Atlanta in Georgia. It's one of the only shooting ranges in the world where you can see helicopters and fighter bombers fly down opposite the range. It's a surreal experience.
"My results weren't fantastic but it was a good average and I shot a personal best in one event. I would like to earn a quota place for myself, but if not, there is a place there for the best shooter in Britain. I'm confident.
"With rifle shooters in Britain, we've had a massive divide between people in their mid-30s and those in their late teenage years. I've been training with that [younger] gang, people like Jen McIntosh. We've been chasing Jon Hammond, Mike Babb, Neil Stirton and Matthew Thomson.
"There's been a big age and experience gap. They've been shooting for 15-years plus, much longer than us.
"So only this year has it got to the stage where I could beat any of these guys.
"It would mean so much [to qualify for the Olympics]. The first one I watched was in 2000, Sydney. I've so much respect for all of the people who get there: they are the most elite, hard-working of all.
"I appreciate all sports, having done a lot of others as a kid, so I know - although they're all different - that it takes the same set of skills, motivation, commitment, not to mention the level of training, to get there.
"Just to witness the other athletes there would be amazing. But to be competing alongside them, putting 100% effort in, would be a dream come true.
"Although initially daunted at the Commonwealth Games in Delhi [where I won a silver and bronze], when you stand shoulder to shoulder you realise they are very similar to yourself.
"They are human, but they have more experience. And it's about self improvement, rather than just beating someone else. Finding ways to improve individual parts of your technique so that you can shoot 10s all day - under any conditions.
"Shotgun [shooting] is a completely separate event, quite different. Theirs is a moving target, ours is still. That's definitely a more popular sport: if you say shooting to most people, they think of clay pigeon. They've been more successful, so had more grass roots funding. But rifle is just as exhilarating."
EMBRACE NATIONAL SHOOTING WEEK
"Shooting is quite unique, in that it's not prejudice to your height, size or weight. Pretty much anybody can do it.
"It's not biased to your age or fitness levels. Anyone can pick it up and have a go. Just give it a go and enjoy yourself. Embrace how exciting it will be to fire that first shot. It will be such an interesting day out if you've never done it before. You will be really surprised."2
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ROI isn't represented in the Olympics, IRL is (ISSF's 32-county, always has been).bunny shooter wrote: »Is/will he be representing ROI?
And we need a quote place (or wildcard place) before anyone can, but Floydster's pretty much the front runner at the moment...
...even though he's far too modest to say so
Three so far - Floydster and Rhona in Atlanta (50m prone and 10m air) and Alan in Sydney (50m prone). We've not had pistol shooters in quite some time, for obvious reasons, though we had some World Cup level shooters from the RDF/PDF a while back (Tim Scannell shot for IRL in the Atlanta World Cup around the time of the Atlanta Games).Have we ever had a rifle and/or pistol shooter in Olympics?0 -
ROI isn't represented in the Olympics, IRL is (ISSF's 32-county, always has been)............
Interesting.
Has this been achieved without financial help from Government/s?
How does the funding work if you're resident in NI?
BTW best of luck Floydster in your qualification quest I bet your proud to have represented your country in the Olympics. 0 -
bunny shooter wrote: »Interesting.
Has this been achieved without financial help from Government/s?
How does the funding work if you're resident in NI?
BTW best of luck Floydster in your qualification quest I bet your proud to have represented your country in the Olympics.
I think you'd be better asking how does funding work if your a shooter ( full stop!!!!!)0 -
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Yeah, well, don't get me started on why it's that way.
OMG :eek:
I feel like I've walked in dog dodo and just walked through the house
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Yeah, well. There was a reason for all the shouting back then...bunny shooter wrote: »I feel like I've walked in dog dodo and just walked through the house0 -
I gave up shooting for around 7 years because of the politics and shenanigans that went on!, to be honest nothing has changed in the seven years except I can hold my tongue for a good bit longer than I used too!
Also, there are a few others now, that aren't afraid to ask awkward questions on your behalf
I actually have no idea how funding or carding is applied for or what critera needs to be met!;)
Nor will you ever be told. Keeping the shooter in the dark is deemed to be in his/her best interests, for reasons unknown. Absolute bollocks.
And as far as funding goes, whichever pot its coming from, it's never enough.
All these sporting bodies waste more money in a year than would keep ANY elite athlete running for five.
Go to a funding/grant seminar, and there'll be several staff, with nice (expensive) projectors, refreshments and nice facilities - and the presentation invariably will tell you (in as nice a way as possible) THERE IS NO MONEY FOR YOUR SPORT
Now, football, rugby or gaelic football on the other hand...0 -
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Though, to be fair, it's all over this site, and the ISC's website. And the criteria haven't really changed since the late 90's at least (certainly there's never been more than a small tweak since I first learnt about them back in '98 or so).Nor will you ever be told.
AmenAnd as far as funding goes, whichever pot its coming from, it's never enough.
True. That's the problem with the ISC - all C and not very much S...All these sporting bodies waste more money in a year than would keep ANY elite athlete running for five.
In a nice building that your NGB is no longer able to get a PO box in or book rooms in for meetings (even at the commercial rates they were being charged) because you're not a big enough NGB...Go to a funding/grant seminar, and there'll be several staff, with nice (expensive) projectors, refreshments and nice facilities - and the presentation invariably will tell you (in as nice a way as possible) THERE IS NO MONEY FOR YOUR SPORT
...and when you complain that the rules they impose (like forcing the creation of the NRPAI) has caused problems (like all the shouty politics back in the bad old days), you get told that there's too much noise in the system by John Tracy - who then wants us to use what little grant money we have to hire permanent staff, and who wants ISC personnel put on our NGB boards (which is great - until you realise that we can't have a meeting in the evening anymore, when the other committee members aren't at work earning their mortgage payments, because the ISC personnel is only available during work hours as this will be their job and they don't volunteer for your sport in their free time...)
Q$)@#%@#%$@!)!!!@!
*ahem*
Yes, maybe you shouldn't get me started on the ISC either...
Now, football, rugby or gaelic football on the other hand...[/QUOTE]0 -
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90%?Sparks,
To be honest, most of my post was aimed squarely at the north's sporting bodies, as that's where I've gathered most of my experience from, but I'm sure 90% of it applies to the south too.
Ha!
Try 101%...
There isn't here either. Oh, they have Junior grants allright, they do get that right at least, but once you hit 21, you're into la-la land for the grant criteria. When your Developmental grant (the thing that's supposed to support a shooter who's just starting off in International shooting) requires you to shoot an MQS and be in the top 30 twice in a World Cup series/European Championships/World Championships in the year before they give you any of the enormous €3,000 or so that you used to get for it (not sure if we even have that in the ISC coffers next year). I mean, that's just insane. Top 30 in a World Cup series means 580s in air rifle. High 580s. That means:Whilst we do have a few athletes in the north on funding programmes, there doesn't seem to be a red cent for a development shooter, nor a promising shooter, nor anyone else.- your own rifle is mandatory because you're not going to get to 580 on an unmodified club gun that you can't train with 3-5 times a week - that's anything from €1200 to €2750, depending on make, model, and whether or not it's second-hand.
- It means batch tested or at least sized ammo (which is a pain to get - as we've talked about!).
- It means your own shooting suit, and at that level, it's going to be custom-made. So basicly a grand right there.
- It means a lot of range time just to hold at that level, let alone improve (and that's not free - not just club fees, but travel costs. It's 300km and €45 of petrol a week for me at the moment, and that will probably have to increase).
- And then you have to go to two world cup matches. At best, you could do Milan and then Munich, back to back, and save some money on flights - but the cheapest you could do it for would realistically be somewhere in the €2500 range.
So you will probably have spent three to four times the value of the grant just qualifying to apply for the grant. And you won't see the money till the next year.
The amount and the process might make sense if the criteria were lowered. Requiring a medal in the olympics or world championships before giving a top-level grant (ooooh, €30k. Wow, that'll cover nearly 9 months of the travel costs needed to go get a medal...) is either a cynical PFO or else it's just plain stupid.
But then, we've been saying this for a decade now and had to fight our own as well as the ISC to say it
Yup, unless you're cracked. And not a lot of shooters are cracked enough to put that kind of money into it (or have it to do so) and so our high-level training numbers aren't ever going to be huge. It's not the sole, solitary, reason; but money is a huge factor in this for someone who's just starting out, no matter what level they're aiming at, whether it be a serious run at a medal like Philip Murphy and Derek Burnett are doing, or just someone who shot in college and wouldn't mind continuing and plinking every other weekend. Money's always the kick in the throat that they run into.Now I've no problem with the majority of the funding being pushed towards the 'elite' - I agree with that whole-heartedly - but if you were a promising shooter, worthy of 'development' then unless you have the cash to put on the table, you're screwed.
Yeah, well, it's catching. But don't tell anyone, they think I'm on the wagon with the whole ranting thing...PS I'm in ranting mood today, probably the heat...0 -
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B'man, the only international ISSF match you can get to for €500 might be the Isle of Man Easter shoot. Anything on the continent (where the actual ISSF matches start, at least for airgun) and you're looking at at least twice that. Hell, we pay nearly €500 in excess baggage charges alone.I travelled to an international a few times a year - admittedly 'near' internationals in Europe but still €500 for the weekend - with ammo and entry fees on top of that.
No, we can't, not really - that's the point. We can do the same sport, yes. Can we effectively compete at the levels that the ISC expects? No, not with the level of support we have and the amount of legislation we currently operate under.But at least you can do it.
That's not a whinge - that's me listing the two things that have to change. And I think putting the guts of a decade into trying to fix them means I get to list them without being classed as a whinger 0 -
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B'man, a few have hinted at this, but there is no comparison between a GAA player at the highest level possible in his sport, to a world class international shooter.
You can be the best footballer in Ireland, but you will only ever be that. We're talking about being one of the best shooters in the world.
Read back to my previous post about the financial differences and remember when we talk about travelling to compete, we're not talking about travelling to away games, 50 miles up the road, we're talking 14 days away from home half way around the worls, competing against the best other countries have to offer, not counties.
@Sparks - you need to start DHLing your gear 0 -
Actually, Daniel and myself were looking into that during the Kuortane training camp the last time we were there (and facing the €250 excess charge on the way back). Turns out it's not quite as easy as we'd like - couriering firearms around gets complicated@Sparks - you need to start DHLing your gear
Best we could do was to change airlines and routes, and go via an SAS flight into Vaasa and then drive overland to Kuortane with the Canadians. Things may have changed since then though...0 -
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Sparks,
To be honest, most of my post was aimed squarely at the north's sporting bodies, as that's where I've gathered most of my experience from, but I'm sure 90% of it applies to the south too.
Whilst we do have a few athletes in the north on funding programmes, there doesn't seem to be a red cent for a development shooter, nor a promising shooter, nor anyone else.
Now I've no problem with the majority of the funding being pushed towards the 'elite' - I agree with that whole-heartedly - but if you were a promising shooter, worthy of 'development' then unless you have the cash to put on the table, you're screwed.
When we went to Hannover last month it cost me around £800 (if you include the £200 phone bill) - and let's face it, if you want to progress you need to be doing 3/4 of those comps a year. Thats serious money.
PS I'm in ranting mood today, probably the heat...
I agree that "promising young shooters" may need assistance, you fail to meet about three of criteria in that description!!! 0 -
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It'd be nice to get two quotas. Let's keep hopeful of that. 
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