Theoretical Physics?

I_ate_pizza

Hello everyone, I have a slight decision problem

As Change of mind on CAO is ending soon I'm getting more and more ansure and have been changing my mind frequently now.

I am personally an absolute physics freak, well let's say I am just really interested in physics, a do love maths alot as well and used to think that Theoretical physics is THE course for me.
The thing is I am not a genius, I am not very hardworking.
That is why i liked maths and physics as it did not require much work, but as I read on this forum things might change at uni.
I do love trying to solve hard questions and I won't stop until I have found an answer but I am not dedicated enough to do this in my spare time all the time.

So I was wondering wether theoretical physics is really the right course for me, the thing is I really want to learn more about physics but am not sure wether the live that is coming with it is something for me..

And thats why I was thinking of doing earthsience instead as this seems as an interisting course aswell but I have to admit I never had geography nor geology and I fear this might be a risky decision.

Any advice ?:D

Jammyc

Tbh, you could replace the words 'Theoretical Physics' with any course there.

Yes, university is a step up from the leaving cert. No, some people don't feel up to it when they get there. Some people struggle whether with arts or sciences.

If you're interested in something enough, you'll give the time. Anyway, it wouldn't be something I would be considering when filling out my CAO.

Podge_irl

Theoretical Physics is not an easy course. That said, plenty of people get through it and do well without a lot of work. It will depend entirely on your natural aptitude and your working style.

In my experience doing something "easier" that you are less interested in can quite often end up being more troublesome and difficult.

antiselfdual

Nah sounds like you should be fine in theoretical physics, if you find you don't need to put much effort in to maths/physics for school that's hopefully a sign you're good at them, and being interested is also a plus (potentially as important)... You don't need to be a genius, you do need to realise you have to put in more work at university relative to school but again that's probably true if you want to do well in any degree (I hope). Certainly you won't need to use up all your spare time all the time (unless you have some ridiculous definition of spare time, like "whenever I'm not in lectures." This is not a good definition of spare time...) From my own experience I also never really needed to do much work for maths/physics in school because I liked them and they were easy, and I really enjoyed/am still enjoying TP in university.

Anyway you've called yourself an "absolute physics freak" so you have to do TP now, there's no turning back from such a statement...

I_ate_pizza

Thanks for the replies, it is not like I am trying to escape the workload, I am aware that I would have to work more, I am just not willing to do only work, but then again noone is.

My biggest fear was that for TP one has to be so dedicated that this is all what one will do. I was thinking of people that use their spare time to work out maths equations (I actually do that sometimes ^^) or are busy doing loads of physics stuff and win competitions etc.

About the other subject, the thing is I am interested in so many things, just always thought I'd do physics anyway but recently I started to consider other subject, other areas that inerest me, in fact I am not only interested in science but in politics, sociology and so on.
I still feel, and know thourgh that sciences suit me better, as I am not good in writing and expressing myself. Man how I wish I could do more than just one thing. That is actually why I have my eyes laid on Earth science as it seams to be a really broad subject. (Aditionally the whole envoirement stuff kind of captured me, I'd probably just be jumping on the bandwagon of people that want to do evironmental science because they watched too many documentarys)
I'm still not 100% sure though, but I might stick to physics, it's something I always wanted to do so I'll might aswell do it now.

Thanks again for the comforting words.
I'll keep TP as my first choice now

Jammyc

There are societies such as the Hist and the Phil which do debating. You could maybe have a look at those to keep in your interest in politics/sociology?

Its not clearly defined that Science students stick to science things, I'm sure there are many that delve into the Arts-y societies.

Podge_irl

I_ate_pizza wrote: »

My biggest fear was that for TP one has to be so dedicated that this is all what one will do. I was thinking of people that use their spare time to work out maths equations (I actually do that sometimes ^^) or are busy doing loads of physics stuff and win competitions etc.

You need only be as dedicated as you want. I barely even went to my lectures towards the end and I wasn't missing them to catch up on maths (for the record, I don't recommend this).

dabh

If you enter into Theoretical Physics, after four years, you could graduate in Theoretical Physics. Or you could graduate in Mathematics, or Physics. Quite a number of students transfer out of TP either into Maths or into Physics (without having to fall back a year or two). Transfers into TP are rare, and more problematic.

Also bear in mind that there are those who, at Leaving Certificate level, or at some other level, find that the ideas of mathematics and/or physics seem so natural and logical that they do not have to put in the amount of effort involved in, say, seriously getting to grips with a language. There seem to be others for whom the reverse is the case. Presumably you could only discover by experience at what level the ideas come naturally, and when you need to put in a serious amount of work to get your head around what is being taught.

PurpleFistMixer

Just finished third year TP here. It's not as crazy as you think it is. There is work to be done but you can definitely enjoy your free time. How much free time you have depends on how well you want to do (as with any degree), and of course there is an endless amount of stuff to potentially learn (if you want to go beyond the course), but you can have a life.

And re: other interests, there are lots of societies in TCD, so you can keep on other hobbies/pursuits etc.

I_ate_pizza

I still liked the thought of the earth scientist analysing some dirt

But I always wanted to learn some more physics, especially with some proper maths, so I'll do it. I would probably regret it in some point of my life if I haven't at least tried it.

I_ate_pizza

I have another question about deferring my entry (in case I get in that is)
I would like to take a Gap Year as I wanted to travel a bit and save up some money, I'm just worried that tcd doesn't like to see these kind of requests..
Also I am worried that I might be disadvantaged or struggeling alot in TP as I might have forgotten alot..
This is kind of freaking me out to be honest..
And if they deny my request I could aswell just apply next year again couldn't I ? I just thought that the minimum entry points might rise alot more next year due to more english people applying, ofcourse this is just a speculation

srsly78

TP is best course in the entire country, bar none. After graduation you can take your pick of any job out there, including well paying jobs in finance (may need some post grad study). Be warned that about 50% of class wipe out each year.

Lisandro

OK, I've a lot of things to say here.

I do Theoretical Physics myself, and it fits like a glove - it's challenging but interesting and fully worth it. The material you study requires a very pure, self-driven understanding of texts that are written for the sake of maths and physics, not for the sake of getting people through university. It's one where your own initiative becomes rewarding from an early stage, because what it helps you understand is very real, and becomes the foundation for everything you do after.

It is not, however, a hermit course where everyone has nothing better to do than solve maths equations all day. Admittedly, I take the course quite seriously, but I do this out of passion and personal interest. You do not have to do this, but it helps. Most of my coursemates have plenty of spare time and balance work with socialising. I spend a fair bit of time at both ends of the college, because anyone in Mathematics or Theoretical Physics hangs around the Mathsoc Room and I'm involved with the Phil and the Hist, the two debating societies at the other end. You meet more artsy people down there, but you'll occasionally be joined by a few science/mathematics/medicine students.

Theoretical Physics does, however, take a markedly different path from the Leaving Cert. Leaving Cert Maths was a relatively well laid-out and balanced curriculum until the department decided to meddle with this project maths nonsense, but considering you're in 6th year, you still take the same old course I took last year. If you understand Leaving Cert Maths well, then you have a good preparation for the mathematical end of the course. Mechanics is confusing for a while if you haven't done Applied Maths (I rank it with Classical Studies as two of the only subjects that haven't been neutered by the department in recent years), however the book the lecturer recommends (An Introduction to Mechanics by Kleppner and Kolenkow) is very, very good, things make a lot of sense after reading it.

Leaving Cert Physics, unfortunately, gives a poor preparation for college physics, but it's better than no preparation. You won't really feel the effect of this because physics lectures aren't streamed, you'll share lectures with people who have never done physics before (except in Special Relativity). I don't like this approach, I think the lectures should be streamed, but from what I've heard, physics really picks up in 2nd year. Back to Leaving Cert Physics, what you get is very watered down stuff, it's been sterilised of all the mathematics that makes it beautiful and it's been turned into just another subject you can rote-learn and get an A1 in it without knowing anything about calculus or non-trivial vector arguments. In essence, you'll be starting all over, but this time with mathematics, and lots of it.

I definitely recommend Theoretical Physics, all my friends from the more artsy quarters hate the thought of doing my coursework, but the reality is I wouldn't have it any other way - what theoretical physics provides is a course where you can pursue mathematics and physics, both classical and modern in an independent and unbounded way. I'd take that over a BESS degree anyday!

(Sorry, BESSheads)

PurpleFistMixer

srsly78 wrote: »

Be warned that about 50% of class wipe out each year.

Not true. My class started with about 40 in first year, we had, I would estimate, about 30 by the end of third year. The largest contribution to a diminishing class size is people transferring into maths (or less frequently physics), so they're not even dropping out.

Lisandro wrote: »

You won't really feel the effect of this because physics lectures aren't streamed, you'll share lectures with people who have never done physics before (except in Special Relativity). I don't like this approach, I think the lectures should be streamed, but from what I've heard, physics really picks up in 2nd year.

I don't wish to put you off in any sense, but it was only in third year that I personally felt that the physics "caught up" with the maths, as it were. Probably because the people doing physics via science have at that point decided on their specialisation, so the physics department aren't afraid to do more hardcore stuff with them.

I_ate_pizza

Lisandro wrote: »

Theoretical Physics does, however, take a markedly different path from the Leaving Cert.

I have no clue what Leaving Cert is like as I go to school in Germany but I assume that the Maths is quite similar, might be even harder in Leaving Cert as they cut down quite alot here, but I'm actually not too worried about the maths but more about the Physics (ironically).
No, I am worried about the maths as everyone is pointing out how much different it is to the school level and I have no clue what to expect.

Lisandro wrote: »

Leaving Cert Physics, unfortunately, gives a poor preparation for college physics, but it's better than no preparation.

Same apllies here, I have no clue what Physics is like at Leaving Cert but I have to admit that I am struggling a bit more with Physics than with maths, alright I still understand things etc, but I don't get straigt A's.
Also I have to admit that I didn't find the physics at school that interesting, well it kind of was sometimes I got the :eek: feeling and absolutley loved it, but the majority of times I wasn't too interested..
I enjoy the mathematical bits of the physics alot, but not the practical ones.
This is why I am going for TP I hope it will kind of fit with what I expect it to be but from what I have read on here it should be kind of like that.

I assume the wisest thing is to give it a try.

Maybe_Memories

I_ate_pizza wrote: »

I have no clue what Leaving Cert is like as I go to school in Germany but I assume that the Maths is quite similar, might be even harder in Leaving Cert as they cut down quite alot here, but I'm actually not too worried about the maths but more about the Physics (ironically).
No, I am worried about the maths as everyone is pointing out how much different it is to the school level and I have no clue what to expect.

This complicated things slightly...

Do you know what differentiation and integration (sometimes called anti-differentiation) are?
You might not be familiar with the english terminology.
An example, is this familiar?
y = x^2 + 5x + 6
dy/dx = 2x +5

Or this?
f(x) = x^2 + 5x + 6
f'(x) = 2x + 5

If this doesn't make sense then you'll really be thrown into the deep end.


Also, as Lisandro said, the Mechanics book is very good. Actually very similar in style to the predominant Leaving Cert Applied Maths book.


I'm in Maths, not TP, so I can't comment on the Physics aspect, but the mathematics you learn in first year TP is quite easy.
It would slightly depend on your way of learning maths though; are you the kind of person who is shown a topic, you say "Okay, cool", practice it a few times and then you're good with that topic, or, are the the kind of person who needs to understand every single step in a proof before understanding the topic?
Personally I'm the former

I_ate_pizza

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

This complicated things slightly...

Do you know what differentiation and integration (sometimes called anti-differentiation) are?
You might not be familiar with the english terminology.
An example, is this familiar?
y = x^2 + 5x + 6
dy/dx = 2x +5

Or this?
f(x) = x^2 + 5x + 6
f'(x) = 2x + 5

If this doesn't make sense then you'll really be thrown into the deep end.


Also, as Lisandro said, the Mechanics book is very good. Actually very similar in style to the predominant Leaving Cert Applied Maths book.


I'm in Maths, not TP, so I can't comment on the Physics aspect, but the mathematics you learn in first year TP is quite easy.
It would slightly depend on your way of learning maths though; are you the kind of person who is shown a topic, you say "Okay, cool", practice it a few times and then you're good with that topic, or, are the the kind of person who needs to understand every single step in a proof before understanding the topic?
Personally I'm the former

Thankfully I am the former aswell and hope I hope it stay's like that.
Yep I do know differentiation and Integration,
We didbasic Analysis at school, vector calculations (no matrixes though) and probability stuff.
In analysis we did learn the differentiation rules (chain rule etc) but only learnt the basic integrations, so I don't know how to integrate
f(x) =x^3* 2x*4

But my maths teacher kept on saying how she has no clue how we are supposed to cope at university as they expect us to know stuff that we are not taught anymore.

user1842

I thing the need to look at why you want to do TP.

The only jobs you can get with TP in Ireland are finance and you will need probably to do a bridge course.

You will not find non uni physics work in Ireland so what's the point in doing the course.

You would be better doing an accountancy degree and read physics books as a hobby. Your going to end up in finance anyway.

Sorry a bit negative there but out of a class of 40 not one has stayed in physics. The majority are now working in accountancy and had to do more courses.

PurpleFistMixer

dmclean1842 wrote: »

I thing the need to look at why you want to do TP.

The only jobs you can get with TP in Ireland are finance and you will need probably to do a bridge course.

You will not find non uni physics work in Ireland so what's the point in doing the course.

You would be better doing an accountancy degree and read physics books as a hobby. Your going to end up in Finance anyway.

Sorry a bit negative there but out of a class of 40 not one has stayed in physics. The majority are now doing accountancy masters/degrees.

lol

I have 0 intention of going into finance. Not everyone wants to stay in Ireland, either.

Also: to OP, I wouldn't worry about the maths. You can pick up anything you need to know as you go along (also, first year is a lot of basics anyway), and there are support services available if you are struggling at any point.

user1842

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

lol

I have 0 intention of going into finance. Not everyone wants to stay in Ireland, either.

I said the exact same thing 8 years ago. The world will beat the optimism out of you

Maybe_Memories

dmclean1842 wrote: »

I said the exact same thing 8 years ago. The world will beat the optimism out of you

If you let the world beat the optimism out of you, what's the point of even living?

Perfect moment for "Butterflies and Hurricanes" by Muse to start playing.

KiLLeR CoUCh

I just finished SS physics so from what I can see TP is a good degree. More maths than physics based, a significant number of them seem to transfer into either maths or physics by third year. I wouldn't be too worried about physics. A couple of lecturers have said to me students coming from France and Germany generally are more analytical and have an easier time with the earlier years of the course than Irish students do. You can blame the leaving cert for that but that's a topic for another day.

I can see how Earth science on the face of it looks interesting but beware that it's a new course. The impression I get from some people doing it is that it's a little thrown together at the moment, with a module here and a module there on a range of things. I'm sure by the time you start it'll be more organised however.

Podge_irl

dmclean1842 wrote: »

The only jobs you can get with TP in Ireland are finance and you will need probably to do a bridge course.

You will not find non uni physics work in Ireland so what's the point in doing the course.
.

I graduated three years ago and am neither in finance nor in Ireland.

user1842

Podge_irl wrote: »

I graduated three years ago and am neither in finance nor in Ireland.

Thanks for proving my point.

Aoibheann

To be fair, completely disregarding all other possible careers, there are certainly TP/maths graduates in working in meteorology in this country!

OP, I just wanted to reassure you that taking a year out really won't make you forget everything! I did a year of an entirely different course then took a year out prior to starting TP here a couple of years ago, and I've managed reasonably well thus far - laziness is the only thing preventing me from doing better! :P

You also said that you preferred the more mathematical side of physics, as opposed to the practical side. If that's the case, you may want to have a look at the syllabus for the pure Maths degree (not trying to sway you even though I've transferred to maths myself! :pac:). There are plenty of modules in the Mathematics degree that I know have been regarded as physics courses elsewhere. The maths dept are the ones who offer the mechanics courses from classical through to quantum, statistical physics, QFT, etc. So, if that's what you're interested in as opposed to physics, you may want to consider that. You would of course do those modules in the TP degree, but if have a strong interest in maths, you may want to do both these and other modules the maths dept have to offer. It does all depend on what you're interested in, I personally decided that I would benefit more from the choices that the Maths degree would offer over TP, but the TP degree gives you some excellent skills in terms of labs, report writing (which is very useful!), computation (which you can do as an option in JS if I recall correctly) and you get to do modules in some pretty interesting areas of physics, particularly so in the final two years of the course.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the TP and Maths students here are some of the most active students I know in terms of societies/students' union. So you'll have time - we don't spend all our time at home solving equations or constructing proofs!

I_ate_pizza

hey everyone thanks again for all this information I put TP now as my first choice.

Today I got my final exam results back and it turned out that physics was alot worse than expected. I was certain that I will get an A and anded up with a C, I had a lookt at my work and it turned out I lost all my marks on silly mistakes and this to such an extent, it's kind of unbelievable.

My physics teacher came and had a talk with me about this, as she knows about my plans on studying TP.
She said that I might want to reconsider it, not because she doesn't think I'm not good at physics she knows that I am good, actually one of her best students in class, but my exams are horrible and those silly mistakes are just too much.
She meant that this is the last thing needed in TP and that I won't get far if this doesn't improve.
I doubt it will ever improve though.
I am kind of down now as it looks like physics is not the right thing for me and it's something I wanted to do for six years now

PurpleFistMixer

I don't know why you say it won't improve. Silly mistakes are one of the easiest things to fix, in my opinion. It just requires more care and concentration. The only thing which, in my opinion, could suggest that you really aren't destined to do TP is if you find the maths/physics very conceptually difficult (and even then, if it's what you really want to do I would still suggest giving it a go).

Justin1982

If you do Theoretical Physics you probably wont regret it. You do need to do a lot of study and for me it was tough. The step up from Leaving Cert maths (where I got an A1) to first year in TP was incredible.....Bit of a quantum leap, if you'll pardon the pun

I got a II-1 in 1st, 2nd and 3rd year. Got a II-2 in 4th year due to buckling a bit under the pressure of 4 of the toughest years of my life.
Some exams were very predictable. Some were tough as hell and you really needed to know your ****.
Some graduates didnt put in much work for first 3 years but still got by and then studied their asses off in 4th year to get II-1's.
Others like myself busted their asses for 4 years and didnt do as well.

To do this course you do need to be dedicated to it to a certain degree but intelligence is more important than work effort. It does have a large dropout rate (not sure if its more than any other course though) but thats mainly due to complete wasters who have lost interest or couldnt be bothered working at all.

We used to have a joke in our class that after graduating, we'd all end up working in McDonalds. The truth is that TP's are very respected and much sought after. TP's have a massive choice of careers to go into. Maths and TP graduates are probably in a position to get the best paid jobs in Financial Industry.

From the first day you will be learning some crazy theories like Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics which made the course a lot more interesting than I ever dreamed it would be.
Dont do Experimantal Physics curse. Its fairly boring and not very ambitious.
If your considering TP then give serious thought to studying Mathematics. Maths students study the same TP courses given by Maths department (where all the interesting stuff is learned). The only difference is that TP's also do most of the EP courses in Physics department as well.
For me the best option is to study TP for first 2 years, then transfer to Maths degree for years 3 and 4. In years 3 and 4 the maths students can do all the TP courses given by maths department but you cant do it if your doing TP. I wanted to do Quantum Computing course for example but couldnt because TP's were only given the choice of something like General Rel or Quantum Computing in 3rd year. I chose General Rel. Maths students could have done both though. The EP courses in 3rd and 4th year are not really that important in my opinion for someone who is really focused on TP and the more mathematical courses.

Also Trinity is the only uni in Ireland to give the Quantum Field Theory course as an option. Which in my opinion is essential studying if you really want to call yourself a TP. Others more interested in easier courses which are easy to get good grades in might disagree. Also, in my 4 years in TP, I never got less than a II-1 in any course until I took the QFT course. Got an F3 in that course in 4th year (miserable fail) :eek: and it cost me a II-1 overall degree and the chance to walk into a paid PHD. So I'm now working in a finance job that I hate but I wouldnt change a thing about the 4 years in TP.
Its the most interesting course in the country by far.

You'll probably turn into a bit of a nerd and possibly become very anti social as a result of this course. Most of the people I studied with in TP were a bit like that anyway.

PurpleFistMixer

Justin1982 wrote: »

For me the best option is to study TP for first 2 years, then transfer to Maths degree for years 3 and 4. In years 3 and 4 the maths students can do all the TP courses given by maths department but you cant do it if your doing TP. I wanted to do Quantum Computing course for example but couldnt because TP's were only given the choice of something like General Rel or Quantum Computing in 3rd year. I chose General Rel. Maths students could have done both though. The EP courses in 3rd and 4th year are not really that important in my opinion for someone who is really focused on TP and the more mathematical courses.

This isn't exactly true (at present, anyway). TPs get to do all the TP courses offered by the maths department between 3rd and 4th year (QM, Statistical Physics, Field Theory both classical and quantum, Differential Geometry/General Relativity... eh, PDEs I guess? it's not really TP exclusive like the others), but miss out on (currently) either Mathematical Neuroscience or Information Theory as TPs can only take these in 4th year and they alternate each year (ie, neuroscience was on this year and it's information theory next year). Otherwise, what TPs miss out on are pure maths courses (like Functional Analysis, Algebraic Geometry/Topology, Abstract Algebra, etc.), statistics courses, or the computer science courses maths students can do.

I believe that this coming year, TPs will be able to choose any sophister maths courses they have the prerequisites for, so in theory you could not do QFT/GR (the 4th year TP maths courses) and instead do pure/statistics/CS maths courses, if you wanted.

And the point about transferring into maths - it's much easier to transfer from TP to maths than vice versa (I personally am only aware of one person to transfer into TP from anything else, and he was a bit of an unusual case), so if you're conflicted between maths and TP, the safer option is to go for the latter and transfer into the former if necessary.

Justin1982

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

This isn't exactly true (at present, anyway). TPs get to do all the TP courses offered by the maths department between 3rd and 4th year (QM, Statistical Physics, Field Theory both classical and quantum, Differential Geometry/General Relativity... eh, PDEs I guess? it's not really TP exclusive like the others), but miss out on (currently) either Mathematical Neuroscience or Information Theory as TPs can only take these in 4th year and they alternate each year (ie, neuroscience was on this year and it's information theory next year). Otherwise, what TPs miss out on are pure maths courses (like Functional Analysis, Algebraic Geometry/Topology, Abstract Algebra, etc.), statistics courses, or the computer science courses maths students can do.

I believe that this coming year, TPs will be able to choose any sophister maths courses they have the prerequisites for, so in theory you could not do QFT/GR (the 4th year TP maths courses) and instead do pure/statistics/CS maths courses, if you wanted.

And the point about transferring into maths - it's much easier to transfer from TP to maths than vice versa (I personally am only aware of one person to transfer into TP from anything else, and he was a bit of an unusual case), so if you're conflicted between maths and TP, the safer option is to go for the latter and transfer into the former if necessary.

Thanks for clarification. Its been a few years since I studied. Cant remember some of the curriculum.
Maybe I could suggest that anyone considering the TP or Maths course in Trinity, go to the www.maths.tcd.ie (i presume thats still good???) website and look at the undergraduate courses available. It will give a prospective student an idea of what Maths vs TP looks like. When I was a student of TP we did a bit of programming in C but it wasnt a major element. I think that programming/computer science is something that a lot of TP's get interested in during their 4 years but maybe dont get as much eposure to as they might like. Maths students can do a lot more of that and I think that gives them an edge when they go looking for jobs or phds. Programing is a major element of a lot of cutting edge phds in TP/Maths/Physics and in finance jobs being able to program gives you a massive edge.

I_ate_pizza

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I don't know why you say it won't improve. Silly mistakes are one of the easiest things to fix, in my opinion. It just requires more care and concentration. The only thing which, in my opinion, could suggest that you really aren't destined to do TP is if you find the maths/physics very conceptually difficult (and even then, if it's what you really want to do I would still suggest giving it a go).

Because I've been trying for years now.
In maths those mistakes aren't as bad. they usualle cost me an A though..
and occasionally I tend to misread something really important which messes up most of my exam..

I was really trying to improve this as this was the last thing I wanted in my finals to happen, so I did my very best to stay calm write carefully and neatly.
But once again it didn't help.

I understand that everyone does silly mistakes to some extent but this is just not normal anymore, it can't be that I end up going the right road calculate + instead of a - and that for about 40 times, I ended up scaling from 0.2 - 0.4 - 0.6 - 1 ...
It really annoyed me and I felt like crying looking at my paper especially because the whole thing cost me alot for my overall grade..

And my teacher telling me that I might want to rethink my future plans is prette demotivational

Podge_irl

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I believe that this coming year, TPs will be able to choose any sophister maths courses they have the prerequisites for, so in theory you could not do QFT/GR (the 4th year TP maths courses) and instead do pure/statistics/CS maths courses, if you wanted.

They're not really doing theoretical physics though then, are they? It was possible for people in TP in my year to not do GR AND QFT (though I think both should be prerequisites) and one guy even managed to get his TP degree without doing either as he had a broad curriculum course or some other such nonsense.

PurpleFistMixer

Podge_irl wrote: »

They're not really doing theoretical physics though then, are they? It was possible for people in TP in my year to not do GR AND QFT (though I think both should be prerequisites) and one guy even managed to get his TP degree without doing either as he had a broad curriculum course or some other such nonsense.

Not really, no. But you can get a degree in Maths while doing almost entirely statistics as well, so who knows any more. Who even knows.

aas

I'd think less of a degree if it didn't have some sort of broad curriculum thing really, especially in Maths where it's comparitively easy to teach yourself new material. Are the GR/QFT courses as maths-based as the abstract algebra ones or would you be required to have some interest in physics to enjoy them?

Justin1982

aas wrote: »

I'd think less of a degree if it didn't have some sort of broad curriculum thing really, especially in Maths where it's comparitively easy to teach yourself new material. Are the GR/QFT courses as maths-based as the abstract algebra ones or would you be required to have some interest in physics to enjoy them?

Any of the TP courses like GR and QFT given by the maths department are very maths based. You spend a large amount of time just doing the foundational maths like tensor algebra before you even begin to look at GR or QFT. QFT is a damn tough subject. Try teaching yourself the subject using just one or two of the top text books and you'll get bogged down pretty quickly. Same with GR I think. GR seemed a lot easier to learn from the lectures than from some of the books.
I think there would have to be something wrong with a person if they didnt enjoy GR and QFT. When you finally work through all the maths and equations and end up with things like Einsteins Field Equation and Feynmans diagrams you'll get quiet a kick from it.

Justin1982

I_ate_pizza wrote: »

Because I've been trying for years now.
In maths those mistakes aren't as bad. they usualle cost me an A though..
and occasionally I tend to misread something really important which messes up most of my exam..

I was really trying to improve this as this was the last thing I wanted in my finals to happen, so I did my very best to stay calm write carefully and neatly.
But once again it didn't help.

I understand that everyone does silly mistakes to some extent but this is just not normal anymore, it can't be that I end up going the right road calculate + instead of a - and that for about 40 times, I ended up scaling from 0.2 - 0.4 - 0.6 - 1 ...
It really annoyed me and I felt like crying looking at my paper especially because the whole thing cost me alot for my overall grade..

And my teacher telling me that I might want to rethink my future plans is prette demotivational

Dont question your ability. **** the Teacher. If you honestly want to do TP in Trinity then put it down as your first choice. If your good enough to get the grades to be acccepted for the course then your good enough to do the course if you put some work in.
Dont worry about mistakes and clottyness. The smartest guy I ever met while doing TP was the most clotty idiot I ever met and I dont know how the hell he graded so well with so little effort cos his work looked as messy and error ridden as can be imagined.
The only thing that I would warn people about when thinking about TP is just to be sure you want to do it. And to do it for 4 years! If your constantly distracted by other things then you might not make it or if you loose interest easily then thats not going to help either.
You have to do some programing, a lot of pure maths, some TP maths and some experimental physics courses. There is no shocks after that.

aas

Justin1982 wrote: »

Any of the TP courses like GR and QFT given by the maths department are very maths based. You spend a large amount of time just doing the foundational maths like tensor algebra before you even begin to look at GR or QFT. QFT is a damn tough subject. Try teaching yourself the subject using just one or two of the top text books and you'll get bogged down pretty quickly. Same with GR I think. GR seemed a lot easier to learn from the lectures than from some of the books.
I think there would have to be something wrong with a person if they didnt enjoy GR and QFT. When you finally work through all the maths and equations and end up with things like Einsteins Field Equation and Feynmans diagrams you'll get quiet a kick from it.

Yeah sorry, I should have put a paragraph between my two sentences. BC is offered in second and third year for maths students; in second year you take it instead of things like Advanced Stats II and in third the Hillary term options are fairly restricted without it. And thanks for the information!

mr_brightside

Justin1982 wrote: »

So I'm now working in a finance job that I hate but I wouldnt change a thing about the 4 years in TP.

You'll probably turn into a bit of a nerd and possibly become very anti social as a result of this course. Most of the people I studied with in TP were a bit like that anyway.

You had me right up untill this... I've Theoretical Physics down myself but have a few questions/concerns.

Has anyone done this course in Maynooth? What's the difference with Maynooth and Trinity, which is 'better'? People are talking about transferring from TP to maths in Trinity, that presumably applies in Maynooth as well?

I suppose what I'm most worried about, on a purely shallow level, is what sort of people I'll be spending the next three years with... While I know that maths people aren't automatically nerds who aren't any fun, can't help but think that they won't be as much fun as the desired college experience... somebody please tell me I'm very wrong...

Another concern, as somebody said here, is that the job options aren't great. what exactly can you do with a TP degree? Without going into finance say. Everyone says research, but what exactly is that like? The way I see it you can teach maths/applied maths/physics, or go into finance, anyone help me on this either?

As you can see I could do with a bit of help here.. answers to any or all of these questions would be much, much appreciated

EuropeanSon

mr_brightside wrote: »

You had me right up untill this... I've Theoretical Physics down myself but have a few questions/concerns.

Has anyone done this course in Maynooth? What's the difference with Maynooth and Trinity, which is 'better'? People are talking about transferring from TP to maths in Trinity, that presumably applies in Maynooth as well?

I suppose what I'm most worried about, on a purely shallow level, is what sort of people I'll be spending the next three years with... While I know that maths people aren't automatically nerds who aren't any fun, can't help but think that they won't be as much fun as the desired college experience... somebody please tell me I'm very wrong...

Sorry, no can do. There are a high proportion of people who don't interact with humans in our class (JF Maths). Besides that 30% or so though, everybody else is pretty normal. Plus, you won't really be spending all your time with them anyway. I spent far more time with the Hist and Trinity Hall people this year than with Maths people.
That said, TPs are orders of magnitude more nerdy than Maths. :P

Another concern, as somebody said here, is that the job options aren't great. what exactly can you do with a TP degree? Without going into finance say. Everyone says research, but what exactly is that like? The way I see it you can teach maths/applied maths/physics, or go into finance, anyone help me on this either?

As you can see I could do with a bit of help here.. answers to any or all of these questions would be much, much appreciated

Only Medicine has a higher graduate employment rate than TP. As Aoibheann said, meteorology is one example, as is any career path that involves good insight and analysis etc. Employers love Maths/TP students for these reasons. there are also computing related things.
Research is generally limited to the very good, as far as I've seen.

Edit: Trinity is better. I imagine the course contents are similar, but TCD's reputation adds a lot of value, especially as we are now in the world top 20 for Mathematics.

Maybe_Memories

EuropeanSon wrote: »

There are a high proportion of people who don't interact with humans in our class (JF Maths).

Really? Only one person comes to mind for me

EuropeanSon

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Really? Only one person comes to mind for me

That's because you haven't been in class enough to notice the others.

PurpleFistMixer

EuropeanSon wrote: »

That said, TPs are orders of magnitude more nerdy than Maths. :P

In only the best of ways.

Also there are plenty of normal TPs.

I was mildly apprehensive about picking maths/TP because I was a bit worried about what sort of people might also be doing it (in retrospect this is a ridiculous concern, given I am probably one of the nerdiest people in my year). Then I realised that I was the sort of person who might be doing it, and that everyone else might also be thinking the same thing. So it'll be grand.

Also, there are far more prospects than teaching/finance, as people have already said. Research is stuff like working in a university (which likely involves incidental lecturing etc.), or a dedicated research institution (ie CERN, DIAS, blah), or for industry (ie Intel, anything that uses physics or maths).

mr_brightside

EuropeanSon wrote: »

Edit: Trinity is better. I imagine the course contents are similar, but TCD's reputation adds a lot of value, especially as we are now in the world top 20 for Mathematics.

Yeah but isn't there supposed to be more to college than the course, the lifestyle and whatnot, seemingly the craic'd be better in Maynooth? also Maynooth'd be way cheaper and even gives a grant if you get over 500 in the leaving, which is a big factor nowadays..

Justin1982

mr_brightside wrote: »

You had me right up untill this... I've Theoretical Physics down myself but have a few questions/concerns.

Has anyone done this course in Maynooth? What's the difference with Maynooth and Trinity, which is 'better'? People are talking about transferring from TP to maths in Trinity, that presumably applies in Maynooth as well?

I suppose what I'm most worried about, on a purely shallow level, is what sort of people I'll be spending the next three years with... While I know that maths people aren't automatically nerds who aren't any fun, can't help but think that they won't be as much fun as the desired college experience... somebody please tell me I'm very wrong...

Another concern, as somebody said here, is that the job options aren't great. what exactly can you do with a TP degree? Without going into finance say. Everyone says research, but what exactly is that like? The way I see it you can teach maths/applied maths/physics, or go into finance, anyone help me on this either?

As you can see I could do with a bit of help here.. answers to any or all of these questions would be much, much appreciated

Dont mind me, there is a lot of very normal people in TP and Maths at the start. I think they usually drop off in years one and two. I definitely met some of the most interesting people when doing TP but I wouldnt consider them to be the cliched normal types. If your sociable at all then you'll definitely meet best friends for life in TP but I did find that the class broke up into groups very quickly and after that the groups didnt mix really. Just dont be expecting too many nut job alcoholic party animals. That usually follows after you graduate

Jobs wise, TP/Maths looks like the least attractive when considering prospective careers afterwards but the reality is far different even during the current recession. Your going to end up having a particular set of useless skills which actually make you very attractive to employers. Hedge funds, Banks, Telecoms, Administration companies, blah blah blah...... all will straight away take a good look at your CV if you have a maths/tp degree.
A lot go into further study to enable to get higher end graduate jobs or just into research if you have a decent degree at the end.
The only thing that TP's are usually weak on at the end of a degree is the interpersonal skills end of things. Thats more personality side of things but seen as TP doesnt really focus on developing that side of the graduate, it can be a flaw when looking for a job.
TP in Maynooth is a well below TP in Trinity. A maynooth TP degree counts for the same as TP in Trinity but as for course content and difficulty, 3rd year TP in Trinity is at the same level as a graduate of TP in Maynooth. Take a look at the Maynooth course content. There is a large range of courses given in Trinity that arent given in Maynooth, professors are more reputable in their fields in Trinity and they seem to give harder courses as a result. Plus from trying to do a Masters in Maynooth in Maths department, I never met such a bunch of wallies. You'd swear they didnt want students in there in the first place Very badly organized. My friend did a masters in physics department and he said the same. Its way too laid back in there. Although that might suit certain students who have no interest in doing really specialized high end courses like QFT in year 4.

EuropeanSon

mr_brightside wrote: »

Yeah but isn't there supposed to be more to college than the course, the lifestyle and whatnot, seemingly the craic'd be better in Maynooth? also Maynooth'd be way cheaper and even gives a grant if you get over 500 in the leaving, which is a big factor nowadays..

Trinity has a much better and more varied student life than Maynooth, I'd imagine. There's all the alcohol fuelled mayhem you could want, you don't have to look for it, this is college, there'll be phenomenal craic wherever you go. There are also more societies, more sports teams, better facilities, more students, more amenities (being in Dublin)... etc. Name it, and Trinity probably has more of it.

Maybe_Memories

Let's not forget the most important point of all...


Trinity has Pete and Colm O'Dunlaing

mr_brightside

On a related note, does anyone know if Theoretical Physics is a course on it's own in UCD, ie not through science... I didn't come across it when i was originally applying but it seems to be there, can anyone clarify this?

mr_brightside

mr_brightside wrote: »

Yeah but isn't there supposed to be more to college than the course, the lifestyle and whatnot, seemingly the craic'd be better in Maynooth? also Maynooth'd be way cheaper and even gives a grant if you get over 500 in the leaving, which is a big factor nowadays..

Maynooth has an open door policy and I found the staff much friendlier and more helpful

Fad

mr_brightside wrote: »

On a related note, does anyone know if Theoretical Physics is a course on it's own in UCD, ie not through science... I didn't come across it when i was originally applying but it seems to be there, can anyone clarify this?

UCD has no denominated science courses anymore, recent were gotten rid of (No idea why....)

EuropeanSon

Fad wrote: »

UCD has no denominated science courses anymore, recent were gotten rid of (No idea why....)

TP is a B.A as far as I know.

Fad

EuropeanSon wrote: »

TP is a B.A as far as I know.

In UCD? No.

TP is done through science, you can do mathematical physics and maths as BA arts subjects (MathPhys might have been gotten rid of, not entirely sure), but I'm almost 100% certain the TP is a B.Sc