Should I report this Dole Cheat

LegacyUser

Hi guys.

Want serious advice here.

I know a person, full time employment, (but for a company based in UK) but they are also on the dole here.
They work full time for a company based in UK, they get salary paid to a UK bank account, pay tax in UK, but the actual job they do is based here in Ireland. (Sales Rep)

I know 110% for sure that they never signed off the Dole when they commenced the job last year (late 2010)

The circumstances they are in, house = mortgage relief, married with 4 kids, so the allowances for them, medical cards etc.

The salary they are on is in the region of €45+, now, coupled with dole payments this individual would be on probably 1-1200€ home with them per WEEK, with no mortgage to pay etc etc.

I can barely keep my head above water, working 50+ hours a week, bought pre 2007 house, so my mortgage/salary ratio has gone to the dogs.

What should I do?

I know their is a decent thing to do, and I know their is a 'right' thing to do also.


If I decide that I am morally obliged to report them (looking at my salary slip here, I paid over 868 in tax this month alone!) what will the repercussions be to them? How long a process will it be from the time they get reported, and the repercussions to take effect?

Lastly, this is not a petty revenge, nor jealousy, I feel that paying over 800 a month tax goes to swines like this, so this is why I'm in the dillema to report or not?

MagicMarker

Report the bastard.

Elle Collins

Why did you bother posting this thread at all when you have every intention of reporting them, know full-well what the repercussions for them will be and know you'll just generate a long list of responses like the above?

Korvanica

Report them...<SNIP>

MitchKoobski

Report the cheapskate

LegacyUser

Elle Collins wrote: »

Why did you bother posting this thread at all when you have every intention of reporting them, know full-well what the repercussions for them will be and know you'll just generate a long list of responses like the above?

Firstly, I do not have the slightest idea what will happen them, as I have never been in this situation myself, secondly, I have not already made my mind up. I am asking anonymously as to what I should do.

By repercussions, I mean will they get fined/forced to repay the welfare, or would they be forced out of the job, then be unable to claim dole?


If its the latter, I couldn't live with myself knowing they'd be screwed financially.

Oryx

Ok. I get that the what the consensus is, but I dont want this thread to be one long stream of 'report the <offensive name>'.

So please address the op's other questions.

Ken.

1) Will the person you mentioned know it was you that told on them?.
2) If your having problems yourself contact M.A.B.S

Elle Collins

Whoflungdung wrote: »

By repercussions, I mean will they get fined/forced to repay the welfare, or would they be forced out of the job, then be unable to claim dole?

They won't be sacked for it. Job'll most likely never get to hear about it as it's none of their business. They will certainly be cut off the dole and all other assistance plus they'll be forced to repay every penny and may or may not end up with a jail sentence depending on the scale of the fraud and the mood of the judge.

mikemac

When you started this thread you knew the answers you would get
And this thread will get plenty more one sentence posts, well maybe not now after the mods warning

You know what to do

whoflungdung wrote: »

Lastly, this is not a petty revenge, nor jealousy,

Of course but why are you mentioning your mortgage, it's not relevant at all

Report them. The government is just playing the middle man here; the money you pay in taxes might aswell just go straight into their pockets. Fraud like this is contributing to the economic state we're in at the moment, and the country as a whole would be better off if the dole office got their act together. There are people out there who genuinely need financial help, but can't qualify for it. If people stopped cheating the dole then there'd be far more to go around, and far more people who need help would qualify for it. It's an absolute disgrace.

You should not feel bad. This is both the "right" and "decent" thing to do.

Fittle

Report them - here's the link;


http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

dilallio

There's also another aspect to consider here.

Even if the person is working directly for a UK company, they are based in Ireland and should be paying tax in Ireland. Once they are (domiciled) resident in Ireland for 183 days or more in the year, the UK company is also breaking the law by paying them & taxing them in the UK.

In addition to all the money / allowances you have mentioned, his company and him are also cheating the taxpayer of Income Tax, Employers Tax, Social Contribution Charge, etc.

tinkerbell

Report them. Your tax money could go to better use in hospitals, nursing homes, education, etc. than going into this tax cheat's pocket.

I'm not sure what happens once you report them but that's not your problem - just report him and let the authorities deal with him.

Oh and good for you for reporting him. If more people opted for what you're about to do, maybe we wouldn't have as much social welfare fraud in this country. So fair play to you, you should be very proud of yourself

deisemum

Report him, it's stealing and the money could be going to more deserving people such as the carers that were featured on Frontline last night.

I reported someone last year and you can do it anonymously even though I was prepared to give my name and the Social Welfare fraud section were very thankful for all info passed on.

I am a friend

deisemum wrote: »

Report him, it's stealing and the money could be going to more deserving people such as the carers that were featured on Frontline last night.

I reported someone last year and you can do it anonymously even though I was prepared to give my name and the Social Welfare fraud section were very thankful for all info passed on.

+1000%

This is so true. That's unbelieveable greed on their behalf and taking it out of mouths that need it.

They will def lose the benefits house etc but they deserve to. Shocking

LegacyUser

Report them. Ive reported two people. One was similar situation to yours. None were jailed. I dont regret reporting them either. They knew full well the implications of their actions and had the audacity to cheat the very irish tax payer who helped them out in the first place. In fact one of them had the nerve to even boast about how much they had recieved

paky

whoflungdung wrote: »

Hi guys.

Want serious advice here.

I know a person, full time employment, (but for a company based in UK) but they are also on the dole here.
They work full time for a company based in UK, they get salary paid to a UK bank account, pay tax in UK, but the actual job they do is based here in Ireland. (Sales Rep)

I know 110% for sure that they never signed off the Dole when they commenced the job last year (late 2010)

The circumstances they are in, house = mortgage relief, married with 4 kids, so the allowances for them, medical cards etc.

The salary they are on is in the region of €45+, now, coupled with dole payments this individual would be on probably 1-1200€ home with them per WEEK, with no mortgage to pay etc etc.

I can barely keep my head above water, working 50+ hours a week, bought pre 2007 house, so my mortgage/salary ratio has gone to the dogs.

What should I do?

I know their is a decent thing to do, and I know their is a 'right' thing to do also.


If I decide that I am morally obliged to report them (looking at my salary slip here, I paid over 868 in tax this month alone!) what will the repercussions be to them? How long a process will it be from the time they get reported, and the repercussions to take effect?

Lastly, this is not a petty revenge, nor jealousy, I feel that paying over 800 a month tax goes to swines like this, so this is why I'm in the dillema to report or not?

how do you know the person so well? what relationship have you with him?

LegacyUser

mikemac wrote: »

When you started this thread you knew the answers you would get
And this thread will get plenty more one sentence posts, well maybe not now after the mods warning

You know what to do



Of course but why are you mentioning your mortgage, it's not relevant at all

Its relevant because his mortgage gets paid for him

LegacyUser

While I can see the OP's and the other posters point, I personally would never report them. It just feels too KGB to me. Deep down it just feels like it's none of your business, and if they are managing to cheat the system...well, that's on them. Do you really think your taxed are going to be lowered if you report this one person? That's literally finding a (scumbag-ish) scapegoat for something that is not really caused or solved this way.

LegacyUser

paky wrote: »

how do you know the person so well? what relationship have you with him?

Lets just say THEY (whomever said it was a he or a she?) told me from their own mouth.

I know this person as someone that frequents the same places I do from time to time.

tbh

People who genuinely need that money and have worked hard and played by the rules all their lives are not getting what they need because of people like this. The era of the cute hoor is over. Report them.

Fittle

paky wrote: »

how do you know the person so well? what relationship have you with him?

What difference does that make!! Don't make excuses for these people...they are taking the money that others need!! Report them. Here's the link again - it's very simple

https://www.welfare.ie/EN/Secure/Pages/ReportSuspectFraud.aspx

LegacyUser

I'm on the dole (a regular poster around here) and I frequently hear on the radio and read here and in other places how people on the dole are wasters and cheaters and scum and draining the system. People like this give such a bad name to those of us who are actually in trouble and desperately want a job.

Report them. You can do it anonymously.Just go and do it would you?

LegacyUser

Think back on your own life.
Are you so perfect.
Have you never cheated, scammed, lied, falisfied a document, stole a biro from work, did something dishonest and you knew it was,lied about your earnings to get credit or perhaps a mortgage, claim for something you were not entitled to, know of others perhaps close family/friends who have pulled a fast one sometime in their life.

If you have done none of the above, then by all means report these people.
If you have then stop whinging about what you dont have and grow up

dudara

OP, if you believe that they are defraduing the Social Welfare system, then yes, you should report them.

Part of being a citizen is having this country protect you. The other part of the deal is that you also protect the country. People who knowingly and willingly defraud the country are criminals. I have no sympathy and I would have no guilt (assuming of course that I was 100% certain - definitely wouldn't do it on the basis of a rumour or half story).

I am a friend

devilsavocado wrote: »

While I can see the OP's and the other posters point, I personally would never report them. It just feels too KGB to me. Deep down it just feels like it's none of your business, and if they are managing to cheat the system...well, that's on them. Do you really think your taxed are going to be lowered if you report this one person? That's literally finding a (scumbag-ish) scapegoat for something that is not really caused or solved this way.

I have no problem working day in day out to pay tax to help people who need it at any given time. I am not working to help this lad and his family steal from the state... Also what a terrible example to give his kids.

tinkerbell

devilsavocado wrote: »

While I can see the OP's and the other posters point, I personally would never report them. It just feels too KGB to me. Deep down it just feels like it's none of your business, and if they are managing to cheat the system...well, that's on them. Do you really think your taxed are going to be lowered if you report this one person? That's literally finding a (scumbag-ish) scapegoat for something that is not really caused or solved this way.

It is our business because the money we work hard to earn is getting paid into that cheat's pocket.

LegacyUser

peeppee wrote: »

Think back on your own life.
Are you so perfect.
Have you never cheated, scammed, lied, falisfied a document, stole a biro from work, did something dishonest and you knew it was,lied about your earnings to get credit or perhaps a mortgage, claim for something you were not entitled to, know of others perhaps close family/friends who have pulled a fast one sometime in their life.

If you have done none of the above, then by all means report these people.
If you have then stop whinging about what you dont have and grow up

Firstly, I am not "whinging", nor do I need to "grow up"
Secondly, the answer is no, no I have never lied on credit applications, certainly never falsified a document, nor have I cheated or been dishonest.
I try to live as honest, and straight life as I possibly can. I have a home with 3 children to attend to, and I strive everyday to do my utmost to ensure they have a happy and safe upbringing, and hope that they will continue on in their journey in life hopefully following the examples my other half, and I have set for them.

I do not envy this person because they are cheating the system, but what does annoy me, is that I personally know someone else who was REFUSED welfare, simply because their other half was still earning (a measly salary of 30,000)

Some people.......

If we ALL thought like you, this country would be in a bigger financial mess than it currently is.

mcjagger

op i think your envious of what this person has and your just doing it out of spite. i know people like you and what they're like. i normally avoid them as best i can because you never know when they'll stab you in the back. well if i was in this guys position and i found out someone ratted me out, lets say that would be the last time they'd ever think of doing it again

LegacyUser

mcjagger wrote: »

op i think your envious of what this person has and your just doing it out of spite. i know people like you and what they're like. i normally avoid them as best i can because you never know when they'll stab you in the back. well if i was in this guys position and i found out someone ratted me out, lets say that would be the last time they'd ever think of doing it again

Thanks for that advice mcjagger.

Your 'advice' and even a little 'threat' seems so much real generated from the safety of your computer.

common sense brigade

there is corruption everywhere even in the dole office. i know a girl quite well who works in the dole office. she gets complaints written in about people defrauding the system. they come in online and in the post, some people even walk in and report people. some of the complaints she bins if he feels sorry for them! some she takes serious if its alot of money being defrauded. and she is not the only one doing this either. so it begs the question what is the point if you cant even trust your complaint to be looked at seriously. I would never report anyone I believe in live and let live.

LegacyUser

common sense brigade wrote: »

I would never report anyone I believe in live and let live.

Thats the problem with this country, too much turn a blind eye and now see where thats got us

"evil happens when good people fail to act"

OP if it was me, I'd have reported them without the need to gauge boards opinion

dudara

@mcjagger - Violence, or threats thereof, are not welcome in this foru.

Please take the time to read the charter.

dudara

common sense brigade

I would never report anyone I believe in live and let live

Look im not a bad person because i wouldnt report a dole frauder.
I am have always worked, i claim no form of social assistance nor have i ever .I never been on dole never had medical cards etc. My husband is the same. we built our own home. we have a child and we pay for childcare so we can both work full time. I give 50 euro from my childrens allowance to St Vincent De Paul every month without fail. I consider myself to be a decent human being.
I know at least 4-5 people defrauding the system. either claiming to be lone parent. or rent allowance scam. or working off the books.
Im dont get involved because its none of my business and im busy enough with my own life not to be spying on neighbours and friends and turning them in.
The whole country is being taken by a ride by the banks daily here and over taxed to the hilt. corruption is everywhere. thats all im saying.

Fittle

common sense brigade wrote: »

Look im not a bad person because i wouldnt report a dole frauder.
I am have always worked, i claim no form of social assistance nor have i ever .I never been on dole never had medical cards etc. My husband is the same. we built our own home. we have a child and we pay for childcare so we can both work full time. I give 50 euro from my childrens allowance to St Vincent De Paul every month without fail. I consider myself to be a decent human being.
I know at least 4-5 people defrauding the system. either claiming to be lone parent. or rent allowance scam. or working off the books.
Im dont get involved because its none of my business and im busy enough with my own life not to be spying on neighbours and friends and turning them in.
The whole country is being taken by a ride by the banks daily here and over taxed to the hilt. corruption is everywhere. thats all im saying.

What a cop-out! Just because 'corruption is everywhere' does not make social welfare fraud OK!!!!!!!!

It's yours and my responsibility to report fraudsters - this country is in the state it's in because people have the above attitude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tinkerbell

OP, you're doing the right thing. This person is screwing you, me and every other tax payer in this country. So stick to your guns.

And as for that person who works in the welfare office who doesn't take things seriously well I'd write a letter complaining that the complaint letters re. fraud aren't being taken seriously.

common sense brigade

What a cop-out! Just because 'corruption is everywhere' does not make social welfare fraud OK!!!!!!!!

It's yours and my responsibility to report fraudsters - this country is in the state it's in because people have the above attitude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok fittle how many people have you yourself reported? ....

keithclancy

dilallio wrote: »

There's also another aspect to consider here.

Even if the person is working directly for a UK company, they are based in Ireland and should be paying tax in Ireland. Once they are (domiciled) resident in Ireland for 183 days or more in the year, the UK company is also breaking the law by paying them & taxing them in the UK.

In addition to all the money / allowances you have mentioned, his company and him are also cheating the taxpayer of Income Tax, Employers Tax, Social Contribution Charge, etc.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong

You pay income tax where you work.

I.E. You can work in Ireland for upto 183 days without paying income tax, you can live anywhere you damn please.

If you had to pay tax where you live it it would be insane.
Worst you'd have to do is declare your income, but in effect working in a different country you have no income as such to tax.

Ickle Magoo

common sense brigade wrote: »

ok fittle how many people have you yourself reported? ....

Stop asking other posters personal questions and carrying on petty arguments - if you cannot help but breach the forum rules you will have your posting rights revoked.

Folks,

This is an advice forum - please keep replies on topic and helpful to the OP.
Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

common sense brigade

ok i will rephrase apologies ickle magoo. I only asked the one question to one poster not posters'. You seem to be unduly hard on me here?
I just think it would be interesting to see how many people on here have actually reported somebody.
of all the people telling the OP to do her civic duty how many of them have done the same. Or perhaps have none of them ever reported anyone and never would but just like to sit back and watch drama at other peoples expense.
I think its a relevant question and would be of interest to the OP . OP if your not interested then apologies

Ickle Magoo

This thread is not the appropriate place for posters to attempt to bolster their arguments by trying garner the numbers of other people doing anything - it's to give the OP advice. If you wish to know how other posters behave, ask the question in the relevant forum.

metrovelvet

I have never ever reported anyone for anything, tv license, getting a few bob off the black economy, tax evasion, ever. It would take an awful lot for me to do it.

This specific case makes it tempting because it does seem grossly unjust, but if you do report this person, it kind of makes you obliged to report anyone and everyone you know in the future for every mishap, including your own family if they ever skip the tv license, dont fully disclose all their income to revenue, tax discs on cars.

Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

common sense brigade

This specific case makes it tempting because it does seem grossly unjust, but if you do report this person, it kind of makes you obliged to report anyone and everyone you know in the future for every mishap, including your own family if they ever skip the tv license, dont fully disclose all their income to revenue, tax discs on cars

couldnt agree more OP. If you do this be prepared to do it on family and closer friends too. how justify it otherwise.. and same to everyone else on here saying report the person. hope yous all get reporting your friends and neighbours tonight

Fittle

metrovelvet wrote: »

I have never ever reported anyone for anything, tv license, getting a few bob off the black economy, tax evasion, ever. It would take an awful lot for me to do it.

This specific case makes it tempting because it does seem grossly unjust, but if you do report this person, it kind of makes you obliged to report anyone and everyone you know in the future for every mishap, including your own family if they ever skip the tv license, dont fully disclose all their income to revenue, tax discs on cars.

Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

Why?
Why should the OP report anyone and everyone just because they decide to report this one person?
The fact that you have never reported anyone is NOT something to be proud of! If you know of people who are scamming the system, it's your duty to report them. Do you not get that?

common sense brigade

Why should the OP report anyone and everyone just because they decide to report this one person?

but if you report one person why not report the next person you know committing fraud. i dont understand sorry!

Fittle

common sense brigade wrote: »

but if you report one person why not report the next person you know committing fraud. i dont understand sorry!

Why use 'if I report one person I have to report the next person' as an EXCUSE not to report someone?

metrovelvet

Fittle wrote: »

Why?
Why should the OP report anyone and everyone just because they decide to report this one person?
The fact that you have never reported anyone is NOT something to be proud of! If you know of people who are scamming the system, it's your duty to report them. Do you not get that?

Because its not fair to report one and not report the other. If you report one person and are going to get all ethica high and mighty, then you have to report everyone you SUSPECT without knowlege.

Im not going to call up An Post and report everyone I suspect doesn't have a tv license. I pay it myself but it is an unjust tax, much as a lot of double taxes are in this country, and Im not going to rat people out for the tv license sorry. And no its not my duty. That's bull****. Im not the tv police.

Plus without hard proof, all it is is nasty gossip and there are people abusing the tattle system for personal gripes when they have no evidence. There is a huge difference between knowlege and suspicion.

Penn

common sense brigade wrote: »

but if you report one person why not report the next person you know committing fraud. i dont understand sorry!

Because degree matters. If someone waits one month to get a TV licence because they were stuck for cash that month, it's understandable. Still not right, but so long as they aren't doing it regularly and only in dire circumstances, I'd let it slide. It isn't always black and white. There is some grey. But this case isn't grey. Someone is purposefully scamming the system to get more money even though they could easily survive without it, that's not on.

Degree matters.

metrovelvet

sunflower27 wrote: »

I can't believe anyone thinks delaying paying a TV license is on the same level as scamming the guts of 800e a month etc etc every month through social welfare.

I despair. :rolleyes:

The scammer knows the risks he is taking, his luck has run out and about time.

Delaying is not the same thing as not not paying it for years and years. One shows intent and the other does not.

The point is that if you are going to tattle for one thing it is unjust not to tattle on everyone else you SUSPECT without knowlege.

Oryx

This argument about tittle tattle and whether you shop everyone is completely off topic and not needed here. Do not continue it further.