Boards 2012... How do you want yours?

Firekitten

Right, well, to see in the Apocalypse and all that jazz, and taking into account the recent warblings, and squelchings from the assembled bodies, I think its time for an objective look at what we have here...

Boards Airsoft... we see downsides, and we see upsides. What do we want exactly?

Place to discuss retailers, events, technical mumbojumbo, off topic natter... adverts.... Ok, well, Lets take a look at how we want that eh?

First off... ground rules.

1. No spitting, bombing, or peeing in the shallow end.
2. Respect other posters. If you want to fight, the mods will castrate you, and use them to decorate the boards christmas party tree.
3. Senisble posts only please.
4. The past is past. This topic is not about moderators, and this topic is not about posters. We are discussing what we'd like boards to do, for us, anmd how we think it can be improved, within the airsoft subforum, to better cater for the users.
5. Important rule... forgotten what it was.
6. Cake.


My view?

I think we could do from a shakeup. Not a total whipe and start again... a tad drastic. My idea, would be to amalgamate and change certain topics and areas, and expand others.

Adverts... a must. We all like to buy and sell our shineys.

Technical... Perhaps sub forums for gas, spring, and aeg issues within the sub forum to clear things up for readers.

Gear... A sub forum for discussing loadouts, including topics like Puddings for Russian fetishes, and everyones favourite molle encrusted world police. (this can have the mil photos thread, the pictures threads etc. however less of this crap of separating photo and discussion for say loadouts or gear... its insanity to read. For mil photos... fair, when one is blatently photos only... but kit discussion is difficult spread out that way. Reviews too.

Off topic section: for posting off topic naff, Any topic you like in there, within reason.
(No insulting members, no racism, biggotry, tickling ferrets, or jokes about Dex's taste in gun colours.)
Basically a place to chat, bring the community aspect back to boards... if we have more space for off topic nonsense, people will come, and socialise more. What we need Imo.

Questions.... Gas, Aeg, Spring, and '42' (a section for misalaneous 'what is the meaning of airsoft life?' and such)
Existing retailer, and events, and review sections as they are.

This should cut down crap in the main forum, and make things easier to navigate, create more diversity, and provide a basis for growth.

In my eyes, boards is too simplistic. its stifling growth, by being too simple a basis. Create a wider framework, and it will be able to grow into it.
We need to grow up, and develop. If we sit here cursing eachother, nothing will happen. Proactive change will save boards, and we need to look at it objectively.

The above, is my own view. That of me, myself, and I only. I'd love others to post here too, and give thier views. I know the moderators will take notice of what is said, and work with the users, to create a better boards. Lets make something happen.

Airsoft Reloded

What you said and retailers/sites/event organisers should be able to mod their own threads but they should be kept seperate to ensure each user gets value for money. I also think that €30 is a bit much and what about those that constantly run "events" using that area for free? That sections probably gets as many views as the rest of the board.

Make all areas clearly marked so noobs don't post stuff in the wrong place and make the main section "airsoft" the noob section so those that are annoyed by the constant repeating of questions don't have to see it (it doesn't bother me but all you get is locked and moved threads anyway).

Other than that mod the shi* out of the place but allow the off topic to go where it wants within reason as you said.

Firekitten

I agree with that, but the subscription fees is a boards.ie thing... take that up with them. Its not something airsoft can change internally....

Individually modded subforums within a 'retailer' subforum might work, but its clutterable?

ronan keane

There should be a sub-forum for teams too not just a thread

Airsoft Reloded

Firekitten wrote: »

I agree with that, but the subscription fees is a boards.ie thing... take that up with them. Its not something airsoft can change internally....

Individually modded subforums within a 'retailer' subforum might work, but its clutterable?

True but only when you go into that sub-forum so its not an issue to anybody else.

MagicIRL

Lifted this from the Retailers closing thread, as it is suited more here.

To be honest, the way I see it the Airsoft forum needs a complete overhaul.

This is all personal opinion of course.

Wipe every forum/sub forum clean (Retain the valuable stickies, and other threads deemed important for newcomers and oldies alike) and start again. We've learned what went wrong this time, start it over and try again. That way, the "useless thread" brigade will be pleased and we can add more valuable topics to the forum and keep it organised and clean.

The forum should be divided into the following. AIRSOFT -> Adverts, Events (Restricted forum, threads can only be posted by members who have requested permission from Mods to use the forum for an upcoming event), Retailers and Sites (As one subforum), Airsoft Chat and finally Airsoft Tech/Questions.

I would have a sub forum just for the airsoft chat and banter. This would be an area more lax on rules and such. This would be the place for any and all random threads (akin to After Hours) that are Airsoft related. That way, those who find these genre of thread to be annoying, will not have to visit that subforum.

I would allow retailers to be spoken about freely in other threads if a user has a question, presumming it is advertising on the sites behalf is baffling.

In relation to the locking of threads, sniping posts and such, I think it is way out of hand. By all means uphold the rules, but locking a thread because the discussion has evolved is stupid.

My 2c.

Airsoft Reloded

Also certain mods should go as they obviously favour certain sites and such. I know the past is the past but it will all repeat itself if its not sorted. All sites can mod that section, all retailers that one and event organisers (paid up event organisers since we all have to pay) can mod that one.

Other than that sure you only need one or two.

Firekitten

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Also certain mods should go as they obviously favour certain sites and such. I know the past is the past but it will all repeat itself if its not sorted. All sites can mod that section, all retailers that one and event organisers (paid up event organisers since we all have to pay) can mod that one.

Other than that sure you only need one or two.

Not for this topic.... Greavances with mods should be dealt with in the feedback forum. Not this topic.

ronan keane

Have two airsoft review sub-forums one for written reviews and one for videos but they have to be strictly yours i.e i cant post an oddysairsoft video......etc

Firekitten

I think that could clutter things overly... but its possible. Too many subforums is a concern too remember. It makes navigation harder. Theres a fine line between 'more function and better organised' and 'overly compartmentalised'

horgan_p

This is what I think :

1) There's plenty enough sub fora already - if not too many.
2) The problem with the mods seems to be consistency - in fairness to a previous airsoft adverts mod , he was a pr**k when it came to modding that forum , but he was an equal opportunities p**ck. you knew what you were getting , but everyone got the same.
3) Retailers are not gods - €30 per month does not get you more of a say in how this place is run than the average user.
4) If a site is opening , its news. If a new shop opens , its news. Therefore it gets posted in news as a statement. No discussion on it.If you want discussion take it up with the site owner who can pay his €30.
5) The mods moderate.End of.Dont make excuses for doing your job , dont justify yourselves to anyone in the forum or in the thread.If people have a problem , take it to feedback.If a mod has screwed up thats where he get his ass kicked.Nowhere else.
6) This is a game.Its about fun.This is a portal for that community, and it reflects the community.At the moment if I look here its a community so wrapped up in bitching and sniping (not that kind) that other things are being overlooked.

Case in point - the thread about young lads plugging passers by with springers.These are the important threads.How we deal with things when they go wrong are what defines us , not what we do when things are hunky dory.


God love me for having one , but that's my opinion.

Airsoft Reloded

Allowing retailers e.t.c to mod their own threads cuts down on the need for mods and so saves boards hastle and leaves no room for them to argue with the mods (though I'm sure other reasons will be found).

The fact that you are paying obviously makes a difference, why would you pay for something to have the same entitlemens as everyone else? You can't make the "everyone should contribute something" argument and at the same time say they are no different cause then everyone should contribute something.

A few sub fora would do no harm at all, navigation wise you'd be in the area you want to be in and people only really frequent the ones that interest them anyway and if you made the main section the noob section that there would be no confusion because everything could be explained there.

I agree on the rest though

cobra 08

At the end of the day I don't think there is anything wrong with the layout of the forum. There us defiantly enough sub forums already a few which could do with been placed together.

As for mods I would think the attitudes of the posters would be a bigger issue. Anytime an interesting thread starts here it always end up been handbags at noon between 2-3 posters and completely clogs up the thread with pointless crap and then a mod comes along and shuts it down. If anything I would ask mods to delete the crap keep the thread and ban the users who offend repeatly.
As an example
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056268075

This was a useful thread with some good input from both sides of the fence retailers/consumers. Fair enough the title could've been changed but the thread itself was pretty good for both new and experienced players. A mid could've changed the title removed all the personal crap and left to grow but the users ruined it airing there dirty laundry.

Rant over!

Captain Commie

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Also certain mods should go as they obviously favour certain sites and such. I know the past is the past but it will all repeat itself if its not sorted. All sites can mod that section, all retailers that one and event organisers (paid up event organisers since we all have to pay) can mod that one.

Other than that sure you only need one or two.

from reading several of your posts you obviously have an issue with mod/s on this forum, might i suggest that you do not post about it in public like this and actually talk to the mods.

I enjoy reading the airsoft fora but seeing posts like this in most threads is just getting annoying

Airsoft Reloded

Axis Cometo wrote: »

from reading several of your posts you obviously have an issue with mod/s on this forum, might i suggest that you do not post about it in public like this and actually talk to the mods.

I enjoy reading the airsoft fora but seeing posts like this in most threads is just getting annoying

Check out the name of this thread; Boards 2012... How do you want yours?, guess what I want? If you have read all posts relating to this thread you would see that it is the problem with marshalling that has caused it and the fact that speaking to mods clearly doesn't help means speaking to the community is the only option.

Captain Commie

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Check out the name of this thread; Boards 2012... How do you want yours?, guess what I want? If you have read all posts relating to this thread you would see that it is the problem with marshalling that has caused it and the fact that speaking to mods clearly doesn't help means speaking to the community is the only option.

be that as it may, it clearly states in the charter

If you have a problem with an action of the moderators, PM them or take it up on the Admin forum.

if you feel that the mods are not being fair and that talking to them is doing no good then you need to take it higher within the boards hierarchy and not onto the main airsoft forum, incase you dont know how to do this, you can simply post a new thread here and some of the higher-ups will have a look at it.

Whilst i acknowledge that sometimes the mods may be a lil heavy handed, there are procedures to follow as with any community so best follow them.

Firekitten

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Check out the name of this thread; Boards 2012... How do you want yours?, guess what I want? If you have read all posts relating to this thread you would see that it is the problem with marshalling that has caused it and the fact that speaking to mods clearly doesn't help means speaking to the community is the only option.

First off... ground rules.

1. No spitting, bombing, or peeing in the shallow end.
2. Respect other posters. If you want to fight, the mods will castrate you, and use them to decorate the boards christmas party tree.
3. Senisble posts only please.
4. The past is past. This topic is not about moderators, and this topic is not about posters. We are discussing what we'd like boards to do, for us, and how we think it can be improved, within the airsoft subforum, to better cater for the users.
5. Important rule... forgotten what it was.
6. Cake.

As much as they are valid concerns AR, and concerns that as part of a process, should be adressed, this isnt the place for it. I specifically wanted the mod subject to remain out of this, because at the end of the day, good intentions included, its going to turn into a rant fest and this topic will go down the drain like each and every other before it.

Airsoft Reloded

Axis Cometo wrote: »

be that as it may, it clearly states in the charter
if you feel that the mods are not being fair and that talking to them is doing no good then you need to take it higher within the boards hierarchy and not onto the main airsoft forum, incase you dont know how to do this, you can simply post a new thread here and some of the higher-ups will have a look at it.

Whilst i acknowledge that sometimes the mods may be a lil heavy handed, there are procedures to follow as with any community so best follow them.

Firekitten wrote: »

As much as they are valid concerns AR, and concerns that as part of a process, should be adressed, this isnt the place for it. I specifically wanted the mod subject to remain out of this, because at the end of the day, good intentions included, its going to turn into a rant fest and this topic will go down the drain like each and every other before it.

Fair enough, sorry your right

TheDoc

Cut away most of the sub forums.
When you have little traffic and loads of sub forums it cuts the flow that the forum is actually busy and threads get lost.

There is way too much sub fora, cut it and narrow it done to like

Commerical entities
Adverts
Technical questions advice

Have the pictures threads etc back as stickies on main forum and let the main page blossum again.

---

Eradicate the rubbish decision making that you cant talk about retailers or sites in threads. If its shilling then yeah, get on top of it. If its someone posting pics from a days gaming, starting a discussion about a gun they saw in someones shop, get a grip and let the topic flow.

If its someone asking for site directions, redirect them to the correct thread and be helpful

---

Stop locking threads willy nilly. The only forum i see locks on in abundance is here. If a thread ahs run its course, let it fizzle to the back pages, but stop locking threads cause you think its over.

If a thread is getting heated make a warning, if it gets ridic lock for review then reopen. Stop using it as a tool to shortcut moderation.

Actually you know what, this is just going to turn into a big " Here is how to moderate". Maybe as a moderator myself on a number of forums I'm just used to different methods and get the hump when I see bad modding.

But yah...I'm sure people will post here with actual valid things.

In fairness its only May, I'm sure there will be a world of **** to appear by the end of the year that makes this thread irrelevant

Stercus Accidit

Boards.ie as a whole is a mess, we need less of the nerd sh!t and more community contribution. The mods need to be original here, the other forums don't deal with real people like we do.

I really just want to see accountability from our mod team to us, not boards. Involve us in the policy making and even make the mod appointment system more open to us, less cloak and dagger.

In recent months things have seemed to be ok, I'm glad to see that and thanks to the mods facilitating that. It may also be I've been on here less and less, either way I feel I'm better off than before!

Community spirit, less ego clashing and more of a shared sense of the quality of the forum would be my suggestion. This forum could be what we make of it, for now though, I'm pretty much gone.

Bemused

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Community spirit, less ego clashing and more of a shared sense of the quality of the forum would be my suggestion. This forum could be what we make of it, for now though, I'm pretty much gone.

This. I'm relatively new to airsoft and find boards very useful despite the constant referral to how much it has gone downhill etc. When I ask questions they are well answered and people go out of their way in pms to offer detailed advice. I'm very appreciative of the time they give.

Perhaps the airsoft forums are not what they once were and perhaps long-term members find it less relevant but they are not the whole community although they are no doubt very vocal (and often giving as noted above). They should not assume however that their experiences are reflective of others experiences, especially those just starting out.

Firekitten

I agree bemused, to be honest, it may be quieter on the forum, but it seems more people PM for advice. I get 3-4 pms a week seeking advice...



Those of you beefing with the mods... take it elsewhere. This isnt the topic for it. Mention its a part of change thats needed if you feel that way. but keep the topic, and such away from this. I said it in the opening rules. Lets keep this polite, friendly, and constructive.

sharpy2010

I am perfectly happy with how boards is it just needs a spring clean on the threads alot of them need deletion at this stage other than that its fine:D

The_ChiefDUB

Deleting threads is the last thing that should be done. The archive of useful threads here is one of the greatest resources for Irish airsoft that exists. Whatever we think of the current direction of things here no one can deny the value of the collected knowledge here. Although there is also an enormous archive of collected idiocy mixed in there too :-)

sharpy2010

sorry should have specified with the airsoft adverts and such as in the useless ones!!!!:D:D

The_ChiefDUB

Ah, understood. Altthough, to be honest I wouldn't agree with that either. I often look through older adverts to judge the prices of items that are currently on sale.

sharpy2010

ok go to the home page and you will find a thread about importing from the US last post i think feb 2005.
as it is I think we cant import from outside europe unless its under 1 joule if you know more please educate me;) but at least it will stop a thread being started every now and then about I wanna get this what do I do? kinda stuff.

The_ChiefDUB

You can import from anywhere so long as it is under 1 joule.

Firekitten

Keeping old adverts is a definate requirement. Lets people see past dealings with people they may buy from, and potential bad stories... if anywhere needed the archived topics, its there.

sharpy2010

isnt that what the feedback thread is for?

Inari

sharpy2010 wrote: »

isnt that what the feedback thread is for?

Not really as feedback is opinion, perception and interpretation...the thread is the facts, or at least as factual as you can get. Where money is involved, an archive is essential.

sharpy2010

and then people still wonder is something is still for sale and then its dragging up a necro thread. This whole thread started as what would you like and thats all i wanted

Firekitten

This is why people post 'sold' and can change it to 'sold' in red text over the topic to show its sold. I understand thats what you want, but the system clearly shows when something is sold.

Harveey

I agree with not deleting old adverts, I know myself and a few people I talk to about buying on boards all do a search on the user, specificly looking at their old threads what there selling to get a good suss on the person And as mentioned aswell, comparing prices. Like everything else keeping it there is useful, same with other threads like the ones in the question section, technical section. At some point in time someone will search for something that already has a thread and if not if they post a thread asking for something we can easily search and link them to it

ronan keane

Going on what Sharpy said if a item is withdrawn or sold it should be deleted too many times I have gone into a thread see a gun I want to buy and it was sold a few days ago or it was withdrawn a week ago.....etc

The_ChiefDUB

ronan keane wrote: »

Going on what Sharpy said if a item is withdrawn or sold it should be deleted too many times I have gone into a thread see a gun I want to buy and it was sold a few days ago or it was withdrawn a week ago.....etc

And the slight inconvenience of that is FAR outweighed by the benefits of having all of these threads archived.

Firekitten

ronan keane wrote: »

Going on what Sharpy said if a item is withdrawn or sold it should be deleted too many times I have gone into a thread see a gun I want to buy and it was sold a few days ago or it was withdrawn a week ago.....etc

I'm afraid thats part of using a for sale forum... Sometimes you miss a deal... its no biggie really.

All of the big forums in the uk with thousands of members dont delete threads in the sale forums... I can't see why the traffic level of boards makes it a requirement... it just seems like lazyness or convinience (no offense intended)

Lemming

Speaking as original adverts mod - and indeed as category mod for the old 'For Sale' section before adverts.ie was established - adverts were never locked or deleted because of a sale/trade/whatever.

Why?

People do sometimes come back to trades to resolve issues (primarily). And the most logical place to do so publically - is on the original thread. On top of that, the rules were such that buyer/seller were encouraged to make it blindingly obvious what was going on; hence the requirement for decisive offers (i.e. "Offer 'n' amount", not "I'm interested") and acceptance. Further to that, it was considered good etiquette for the OP to simply state items as sold/gone/whatever. so that anyone who wanders in and doesn't bother reading the thread doesn't make an offer and then get the hump because what they're after hasn't been available for over a year.

Not deleting threads also leaves archives for both user & moderator to search through as well and is very useful.

Bottom line; the fact that somone doesn't bother with reading an adverts thread before jumping in with an offer is their problem, not a problem with how adverts are run/structured, nor is it a problem with anyone else.

Zen 2nd

ronan keane wrote: »

Going on what Sharpy said if a item is withdrawn or sold it should be deleted too many times I have gone into a thread see a gun I want to buy and it was sold a few days ago or it was withdrawn a week ago.....etc

If you're making a mod go through the adverts forum you may as well get them to mark the thread name as sold or withdrawn rather than deleting the thread.

I'd think it would be a waste of mod time though.

Lemming

Zen 2nd wrote: »

If you're making a mod go through the adverts forum you may as well get them to mark the thread name as sold or withdrawn rather than deleting the thread.

I'd think it would be a waste of mod time though.

As I've said before elsewhere, although neglected to mention it in my above post (my bad); threads will disappear gracefully when not active. So that advert that is done and dusted with will simply fall off the back pages over time and you'll need to actually go search for it to find it.

Job done. Simple as.

Firekitten

I vote we bring back Lemming as Adverts Mod... (No, im not saying this because hes my fella)

the era of equal oportunities abuse was possibly the best ive seen adverts operate, and the most stringently regulated time its ever had. Some may disagree, but he made sure where money was concerned, it was all above board, and out in the open.

Airsoft Reloded

Firekitten wrote: »

I vote we bring back Lemming as Adverts Mod... (No, im not saying this because hes my fella)

the era of equal oportunities abuse was possibly the best ive seen adverts operate, and the most stringently regulated time its ever had. Some may disagree, but he made sure where money was concerned, it was all above board, and out in the open.

Lemming and O1s1n were epic mods though at the time I hated them for doing a great job, lol I guess it really is a thankless catch 22 situation.

TheDoc

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Lemming and O1s1n were epic mods though at the time I hated them for doing a great job, lol I guess it really is a thankless catch 22 situation.

And there is hundreds of readers of this forum, I'm sure there is a ****load of potentially epic mods knocking about

Firekitten

Gerrout?

MagicIRL

I have a feeling that the "new breed" of mods will be found in the newer posters, not those who seem to included within the "in circle" of boards.ie.

I'm sure many a user has been a mod or admin on one forum of another, but just does not get involved in the abolsute **** that goes on here.

To sum up; With all due respect, lemming and O1sin had their moments of glory, move on and let a new breed take the helm. Offer the position of Moderator as an application basis so that you can apply as opposed to being chosen randomly. That way a wider variety of Mod will be avilable.

Again, my 2c.

Firekitten

One hypothetical concern with recruiting newer members could be experience... forum moderation is one thing, but moderating airsoft does sometimes require a mod experienced in the game itself. Especially Adverts... catching bs fps claims, or recognising dodgy issues... as an example, more than once, lemming caught a co2 gun being sold that can no way come in under 1j, and has called the seller on it. Or a fake sale... In the main forum its less of an issue I'd suspect, as rules are rules.

MagicIRL

I agree that Adverts needs more attention to detail. Saying that though, I'm sure a dedicated new mod could learn all that needs to be known about airsoft downgrading. Or bring back Lemming:pac:

In regards to the rest of the forum, Allowing people to apply- new or not- could be the answer to peoples prayers.

TheDoc

MagicIRL wrote: »

I have a feeling that the "new breed" of mods will be found in the newer posters, not those who seem to included within the "in circle" of boards.ie.

I'm sure many a user has been a mod or admin on one forum of another, but just does not get involved in the abolsute **** that goes on here.

To sum up; With all due respect, lemming and O1sin had their moments of glory, move on and let a new breed take the helm. Offer the position of Moderator as an application basis so that you can apply as opposed to being chosen randomly. That way a wider variety of Mod will be avilable.

Again, my 2c.

The process of boards.ie doesnt work like that.

Mods are chosen by current mods, so there is no application process or no voting etc. Works in most forums because there isnt a community as such that physically meets up on a regluar basis, well not most forums.

The process has been queried before and we were kindly informed of the process and it wouldnt be subject to change.

Firekitten

Thats our main problem.




Popularity.


The best people for the job, may not be liked by groups, and thus tactical voting would ensue.... Naturally, those groups scream now, and play holy hell with mods they dont like, or that don't let them do x y or z, or even a mod they dont get on with on th skirmish field.

The current system is neutral of personal player bias, and group influence. its the only way really.

MagicIRL

Firekitten wrote: »

Thats our main problem.




Popularity.


The best people for the job, may not be liked by groups, and thus tactical voting would ensue.... Naturally, those groups scream now, and play holy hell with mods they dont like, or that don't let them do x y or z, or even a mod they dont get on with on th skirmish field.

The current system is neutral of personal player bias, and group influence. its the only way really.

That is only if public voting was allowed. The system, that I would prefare for Airsoft at least, would be that as user can apply to become a mod. i.e. I fill out some app. form and the current mod team reviews it. If all goes well, you are trialed and then either accepted or rejected.

The community does not have a say in who gets to be a mod or not, but they can put themselves foward if they feel they have something to contribute.

Shiva

MagicIRL wrote: »

That is only if public voting was allowed. The system, that I would prefare for Airsoft at least, would be that as user can apply to become a mod. i.e. I fill out some app. form and the current mod team reviews it. If all goes well, you are trialed and then either accepted or rejected.

The community does not have a say in who gets to be a mod or not, but they can put themselves foward if they feel they have something to contribute.

The last person who should be a mod is someone who wants to be a mod