Is David Norris Toast?

Zubeneschamali

tayto lover wrote: »

Probably because she believes he is and because she also believes she can back it up. Time will tell.

So what's with your reference to reporting crimes to the guards?

She never suggested that Norris did anything illegal, unless you count that scurrilous but deniable hint about holidays in Thailand.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Am thinking Brasseye's Paedogeddon episode will remain relevant for many decades to come.

Maybe Norris made a political mistake in even mentioning the difference between paedophelia and pederasty, and his own personal experience as a young gay man. Though in a decent society that shouldn't be a mistake.

People need to listen and understand what he actually meant in the context he said it in. Not create strawman arguments about what they think parts of his opinions could imply.

Like earlier in this thread I mentioned in the original interview he remarked penetration of juveniles was wrong and harmful which proves he coudl not have said sex with minors is ok, and people jumped to the conclusion that meant he condoned any non-penetrational intimacy with juveniles. Jesus wept like.

As I mentioned before, I don't think Burke is homophobic, but I have to wonder about the reaction here. The line that's causing most contension is him sayign that as a young gay man he would have liked an older man to introduce him to sexual maturity. This is really no different to the theme of "Stacey's Mom" or a sexually adventurous young woman with a Sugar-Daddy, yet these examples don't seem to ruffle the feathers quite so much.

The fact he's willing to discuss sensitive issues in an intellectual rather than sensationalist way is a good thing, and I hope he continues to do so when he's president.

Zubeneschamali

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

As I mentioned before, I don't think Burke is homophobic,

Given her condemnation of his thinking as "evil and sinful", I think we know exactly where she's coming from.

tayto lover

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So what's with your reference to reporting crimes to the guards?

She never suggested that Norris did anything illegal, unless you count that scurrilous but deniable hint about holidays in Thailand.

I am taking issue with the "only a restaurant critic" bit of that post. If you are telling the truth, as you see it, then it should not matter what you're profession is.
Trying to put her down because of her profession is not fair. Its like saying "he is only a plumber", what would he know or "she is only a waitress". After all Davis Norris is only a politician and look where they got us.

later12

Nodin wrote: »

....though, in the face of remarks about 'holidays to thailand' and other implications, remarkably restrained.

In fairness, Helen Lucy Burke made clear that she meant nothing by mentioning that Norris was going to Thailand - lots of people go to Thailand for very legitimate reasons - she said that she mentioned it in the illustration that she could not send him a hard copy of the interview, and to explain why she read it to him over the telephone.

All that happened then was Joe Jackson and some liveline lunatics came on air and flew off the handle at what they themselves perceived as having a sinister implication or in the case of one male caller, a slur on the character of himself - somehow.


Anyway, the tape should clear a lot of this.

mike65

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The fact he's willing to discuss sensitive issues in an intellectual rather than sensationalist way is a good thing, and I hope he continues to do so when he's president.

This is the root of his troubles, even on Pat Kennys programme this morning his was not connecting with Joe/Josephine Public on his/her terms. Most people do not see any room for philosophical musings about underage relations
that are seen as wrong even though Norris was not intending to offend in my own view. If, when he has dealt with this he should probably think about withdrawing from running for the Park.

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/GTCost/~2kG8v

later12

Anybody know what Morgan Kelly has said yet?? Any press releases from the UCD Economics department at all??

mike65

Constantin Gurdgiev is one of those dangerous foreigners though.

phantom_lord

mike65 wrote: »

This is the root of his troubles, even on Pat Kennys programme this morning his was not connecting with Joe/Josephine Public on his/her terms. Most people do not see any room for philosophical musings about underage relations
that are seen as wrong even though Norris was not intending to offend in my own view. If, when he has dealt with this he should probably think about withdrawing from running for the Park.

I didn't get to listen to todays interview yet myself but looking at the comments on twitter and facebook the vast majority of people disagree with you.

Wolfe Tone

phantom_lord wrote: »

I didn't get to listen to todays interview yet myself but looking at the comments on twitter and facebook the vast majority of people disagree with you.

Ah yes, the census which is twitter.

later12

phantom_lord wrote: »

I didn't get to listen to todays interview yet myself but looking at the comments on twitter and facebook the vast majority of people disagree with you.

That is probably quite true. However those who feel strongly about these issues are more likely to vocalise than those who have a lower noise-level suspicion of the direct quotes.

Also, twitter and boards.ie is certainly not reflective of the electorate - as the boards.ie poll electoral poll demonstrated.

Zubeneschamali

later10 wrote: »

In fairness, Helen Lucy Burke made clear that she meant nothing by mentioning that Norris was going to Thailand

No, HLB claimed that she meant nothing by it, after she was called out for it.

No way was a reference to a holiday in Thailand accidental while painting Norris as a paedophile.

mike65

phantom_lord wrote: »

I didn't get to listen to todays interview yet myself but looking at the comments on twitter and facebook the vast majority of people disagree with you.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Ah yes, the census which is twitter.

later10 wrote: »

That is probably quite true. However those who feel strongly about these issues are more likely to vocalise than those who have a lower noise-level suspicion of the direct quotes.

Also, twitter and boards.ie is certainly not reflective of the electorate - as the boards.ie poll electoral poll demonstrated.

Exactly, the twitterati are on a different planet from so many of the people who will actually cast a vote in October. Some here are so embedded in the online world they forget many are not and never will be part of "this" world with its more youthful and "progressive" profile.

Zubeneschamali

mike65 wrote: »

he should probably think about withdrawing from running

... since if he runs he'll win, and we can't have a poofter in the Park.

Zubeneschamali

mike65 wrote: »

Some here are so embedded in the online world they forget many are not and never will be part of "this" world with its more youthful and "progressive" profile.

Just because we don't see these types online doesn't mean we're not familiar with them. One of my neighbours is a single elderly female pre-vatican 2 Catholic latin-mass false-pope monomaniac, I am well acquainted with the type.

phantom_lord

later10 wrote: »

That is probably quite true. However those who feel strongly about these issues are more likely to vocalise

Surely if Norris really was advocating what you accuse him of the reaction would be against him, not supporting him?

zuroph

mike65 wrote: »

This is the root of his troubles, even on Pat Kennys programme this morning his was not connecting with Joe/Josephine Public on his/her terms. Most people do not see any room for philosophical musings about underage relations

quite the contrary, i'd say most men would gladly muse on being a 15 year old lad and getting intimate with an older lady. we have pop music about it, we have the term MILF, its a fairly standard thing in society...

banquo

A gay protestant in the park? Somewhere there's a really, really old Irish farmer foaming at the mouth.

Pat D. Almighty

Shocking attempt at a smear campaign from a nobody journalist with an agenda. I'm hoping the intelligent citizens of this state will see through it. David Norris is a fine gentleman and will make a great President.

d'Oracle

mike65 wrote: »

Exactly, the twitterati are on a different planet from so many of the people who will actually cast a vote in October. Some here are so embedded in the online world they forget many are not and never will be part of "this" world with its more youthful and "progressive" profile.

Which in itself ignores the people who are part of " "this" world" but don't fit into "its more youthful and "progressive" profile".

zuroph

later10 wrote: »

Also, twitter and boards.ie is certainly not reflective of the electorate - as the boards.ie poll electoral poll demonstrated.

Sadly true. The internet generation are at least capable of debating these things, and not merely taking "fact" from whichever newspaper it is they choose to buy, or whichever priest they have give the homily at Sunday Mass.

d'Oracle

banquo wrote: »

A gay protestant in the park? Somewhere there's a really, really old Irish farmer foaming at the mouth.

Probably more than a few young people in the city too.

d'Oracle

zuroph wrote: »

Sadly true. The internet generation are at least capable of debating these things, and not merely taking "fact" from whichever newspaper it is they choose to buy, or whichever priest they have give the homily at Sunday Mass.

People had valid opinions long before the Internet.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

d'Oracle wrote: »

People had valid opinions long before the Internet.

no, they didn't. everybody over the age of 40 should just be ashamed of themselves and should apologise daily for existing.

Jesus Wept

Ignoring the pederasty comments (I struggle to find a real moral difference between pederasty and paedophilia), little has being said regarding his incest comments which were pretty mind boggling.

20Cent

The-Rigger wrote: »

Ignoring the pederasty comments (I struggle to find a real moral difference between pederasty and paedophilia), little has being said regarding his incest comments which were pretty mind boggling.

Without the tape or a transcript why believe anything anything HLB is saying about it?

later12

zuroph wrote: »

quite the contrary, i'd say most men would gladly muse on being a 15 year old lad and getting intimate with an older lady. we have pop music about it, we have the term MILF, its a fairly standard thing in society...

MILF - Fine. Every adolescent goes through that. SILF is quite another. yYou are defending Norris by suggesting that he was talking about something in the line of going for milkshakes and pacman, when actually he made a direct reference to classical Greek pederasty, which, seen in the light of his views on a permissibility approach of consent and not age, is pretty unacceptable.

My Dad is exactly the same age as David Norris is, he even has the beard and the sense of humour, in my biased opinion. However, if my Dad said what David Norris has said in a heterosexual context, about a mentoring system as Greek pederasty, about consent based on consent and not age, I would, even as his son, be outraged. This is not an issue of homophobia, the comments that Norris made would be inexcusable coming from any adult.

phantom_lord wrote:

Surely if Norris really was advocating what you accuse him of the reaction would be against him, not supporting him?

Read my post. I am saying that even though people might not be outraged, I think many who are silent or do not take a strong interest in Norris might remain suspicious, particularly if a tape is broadcast. They might follow the words of a famous former politician along the lines of if in doubt, leave them out.

Lefticus Loonaticus

I dont know what all this fuss is about. The leader of the catholic church in Ireland, Sean Brady, was caught covering up paedophile rings and was most likely involved in some way aswell.

The Majority of Irish people seem to have no problem allowing this freak to run amuck in one of the highest positions of the land. Yet some gay guy makes a comment about ancient greece and hes suddenly ineligible!!???

later12

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Just because we don't see these types online doesn't mean we're not familiar with them. One of my neighbours is a single elderly female pre-vatican 2 Catholic latin-mass false-pope monomaniac, I am well acquainted with the type.

You seem unable to grasp the notion that people who are fine with gay people, enjoy their company, or might be gay themselves could be concerned about what Norris has said.

I am suspicious of HLBs motives to be honest, and I do think that some homophobic types will use this to attack Norris - but I do not think that your position does your side any favours. It is only likely to alienate, and I sincerely hope that nobody of any importance in the Norris camp goes down this line. I am sure that david Norris and his campaigners are far too intelligent for that, quite frankly.