I am fuming!!

dark crystal

I got a call from my daughter's principle a few hours back, asking me to come and collect my daughter from school, as she was 'black with the dirt' and I would need to take her home and 'put her in the shower'.

Shocked, I asked where this dirt was, and she said her hands and elbows were dirty.

Now, my daughter was staying in her nanny's house last night and I rang her to ask if she had been doing anything particularly messy yesterday evening. She said they had been out in the garden for a while, but she had washed her hands before she went to bed.

Anyway, I went in to the school - mortified - and when I went into the principle's office, she was sitting there quite upset. I went over to give her a hug and asked the principle where this dirt was. My daughter held out her hands and there was a little bit of dirt under her fingernails and a smudge of dried in earth or soil on one of her elbows. Nothing on her actual hands.

I aked the principle, why she didn't just ask her to wash her hands in the bathroom with soap, if it was such a big problem and she said 'sure I'd be here all day'

The poor child is so embarrassed and I don't blame her.

Do you think this sounds reasonable, because I'm racking my brain to think why she would need to be pulled out of school and told to take a shower just because of some residual dirt under her fingernails. She is always clean and tidy, has a freshly laundered uniform and the only problem this woman seems to have is the fingernails and elbow.

Right now, I'm fuming and don't know how to handle the situation. Was the priciple right in her actions - am I overreacting?

RedXIV

Maybe its because I'm a guy and the principal was female but to me, a bit of dirt is nothing to get excited about?

I'd be throwing serious questions about this and asking about it at PTA meetings.

Like you, I think it's a bit unreasonable to take someone out of class because they are "dirty"

dark crystal

RedXIV wrote: »

Maybe its because I'm a guy and the principal was female but to me, a bit of dirt is nothing to get excited about?

I'd be throwing serious questions about this and asking about it at PTA meetings.

Like you, I think it's a bit unreasonable to take someone out of class because they are "dirty"

The more I think about it, the angrier I'm getting.

I'm actually thinking of switching schools in Spetember. There have been numerous stories about this particular principle and her OCD issues, it just seems my daughter was the poor sap who got picked on today.

I'm wondering how hard it would be to get her a place in another primary school over the summer.....

Diddler1977

dark crystal wrote: »

I got a call from my daughter's principle a few hours back, asking me to come and collect my daughter from school, as she was 'black with the dirt' and I would need to take her home and 'put her in the shower'.

Shocked, I asked where this dirt was, and she said her hands and elbows were dirty.

Now, my daughter was staying in her nanny's house last night and I rang her to ask if she had been doing anything particularly messy yesterday evening. She said they had been out in the garden for a while, but she had washed her hands before she went to bed.

Anyway, I went in to the school - mortified - and when I went into the principle's office, she was sitting there quite upset. I went over to give her a hug and asked the principle where this dirt was. My daughter held out her hands and there was a little bit of dirt under her fingernails and a smudge of dried in earth or soil on one of her elbows. Nothing on her actual hands.

I aked the principle, why she didn't just ask her to wash her hands in the bathroom with soap, if it was such a big problem and she said 'sure I'd be here all day'

The poor child is so embarrassed and I don't blame her.

Do you think this sounds reasonable, because I'm racking my brain to think why she would need to be pulled out of school and told to take a shower just because of some residual dirt under her fingernails. She is always clean and tidy, has a freshly laundered uniform and the only problem this woman seems to have is the fingernails and elbow.

Right now, I'm fuming and don't know how to handle the situation. Was the priciple right in her actions - am I overreacting?

That is a disgrace. A bit of dirt isn't going to cause disruption to your daughter or any other childs learning in the school. That is only reason a child should be taken out of the class.

You daughter should have just been sent to wash her hands in the bathroom. It should have been a non issue for the school.

I would be very annoyed. A complete waste of time for you to have to go to the school.

Dee42

By my understanding of the situation as you have outlined it the principle has dealt with the situation appallingly. If there was an issue about your daughters hygiene it should have been dealt with in a sensitive and discreet manner. As it was a case of her having some dirt under her nails and some dirt on her elbow how did such a trivial matter come to the attention of the principle? Surely if she was in class and the teacher noticed she would have quietly advised her to go into the bathrooms and wash her hands?
I can totally understand why you are fuming

reeta

Please dont let this go... I remeber when I was 8 my teacher brought me into every class to show them my dirty hands. It is something I have never forgotten. You are right to be angry !!

Dee42

BTW I would also write a strong letter of complaint to the board of management of the school

padr81

have to say i'd report this woman, there has to be some person over her. Thats a disgrace. Its a pity you didn't get photos of this "dirt" on your phone or something and than report her. Idiots like this have no place running schools.

smelltheglove

I agree with all above, disgraceful. The poor child would have been mortified, and for dirty fingernails. Im not being bad but kids get dirty fingernails all the time, I could send mine to school with clean hands and they can come home manky, clothes and all, kids will be kids. I would definitely bring it up with both the parents association and superiors, be it the hse or whoever would be above the prinicpal. This is over dramatic, even if the child was in a terrible state with un brushed hair and dirty clothes for a first time this is waaaay over the top.

Mothman

I second writing the letter.

You are not over reacting.

You should see my nails now :eek:

Diddler1977

smelltheglove wrote: »

I agree with all above, disgraceful. The poor child would have been mortified, and for dirty fingernails. Im not being bad but kids get dirty fingernails all the time, I could send mine to school with clean hands and they can come home manky, clothes and all, kids will be kids. I would definitely bring it up with both the parents association and superiors, be it the hse or whoever would be above the prinicpal. This is over dramatic, even if the child was in a terrible state with un brushed hair and dirty clothes for a first time this is waaaay over the top.

Agree with all of above.

Possibly the only thing in relation to hygiene that the teacher should have a major issue with is if a child has lice and the teacher sees this.

A bit of dirt never harmed anyone.

And surely the teacher could have turned it in to a learning exercise for all of the children being taught how to clean their hands properly and not just the OP's little girl being singled out.

omen80

The principal sounds like a complete ar*ehole. Children are supposed to get dirty, it's all part of being a child. Surely there's someone you can report this to? Department of Education?

vicwatson

The heartless aul cow !

There have been numerous stories about this particular principle and her OCD issues

Time to go to the Board of management ?

dark crystal

padr81 wrote: »

have to say i'd report this woman, there has to be some person over her. Thats a disgrace. Its a pity you didn't get photos of this "dirt" on your phone or something and than report her. Idiots like this have no place running schools.

She's come home and had a bath now and scrubbed her little nails clean, as she didn't want to get into trouble tommorrow, bless her, although I wish I had taken photo's now.

I remember during the school play earlier this year, some poor little mite vomited with nerves during a song and the principle kept bring up 'the smell of puke' behind the curtains in front of the crowd of parents. As if the girl wasn't mortified enough!

The woman must have issues about hygene that extend beyond the matter of a little dirt under the fingernails. My daughter doesn't even want to go on her school tour tommorrow, she's so embarrassed.

Diddler1977

dark crystal wrote: »

My daughter doesn't even want to go on her school tour tommorrow, she's so embarrassed.

Ah the poor little thing

dark crystal

reeta wrote: »

Please dont let this go... I remeber when I was 8 my teacher brought me into every class to show them my dirty hands. It is something I have never forgotten. You are right to be angry !!

Aw, that's awful!!

My daughter's teacher didn't say a word, though. My daughter was just bringing down her school tour money to the office when the principal spotted it.

I wonder would the education board do anything, given I have no proof how clean or dirty she was at the time - my word against hers and all?

CJhaughey

She sounds like she is out of order.
Schools are like any other place of work, they aren't clinically clean surgeries!
Does that school ever do anything like gardening or outdoor activities?
How do they manage that kind of situation where people actually get their hands dirty?
Write a calm reasoned letter to the Board of Management and ask them to clarify what exactly is the school policy on hygiene. If this isn't an isolated case then maybe you should contact some other parents and find out if they have had issues with the Principal.

paperclip2

The poor little pet, no child deserves to be shamed like that. :mad:

The next step in the food chain would be the Board of Management chairperson. If its a catholic school then thats probably the parish priest. I'd think about sending a letter to the chair & sec of the BOM with a copy sent to the principal. It would be important to have the episode documented as although it seems to take an act god to have a teacher, especially a head teacher, reprimanded its more likely to happen if theres an official complaint made.

Would there be any point in seeking a meeting with the principal without your daughter to let her know how you feel about her handling of the issue? Although, from your post she doesn't seem like the type to take perceived criticism on board.

Hope your little one gets over it soon OP.


EDIT: If your daughter is generally clean and tidy OP, her class teacher would be able to clarify that surely. Its a massive overreaction to a very minor thing on the part of the principal.

slarkin123

Sounds like shes pushing her ocd onto the kids. I would definitely be writing to the board. The woman would pass out if she seen my son. Walking from the car to the gate, he managed to get scruffy. She's over reacting and i feel sorry for any child who comes into contact with her.

tmc86

I don't understand how the headteacher could respond with "sure we'd be here all day" when asked why they didn't just wash her hands in the bathroom.

Surely it is more time consuming to contact the parent, mind the child while they wait for the parent to arrive and then explain to the parent?

I think that the headteacher has abused her position of power here and totally blown it out of proportion. She should be concentrating on running the school and not bits of dirt under fingernails - something that is pretty much expected from young children.

Send a letter voicing your opinion on the matter, let her know how inconsiderate it was to both you and your daughter.

Pete67

Definitely write a calm letter to the Board of Management outlining your concerns. Request a written apology and show it to your daughter so she knows she has done nothing wrong.

dark crystal

Yeah, I think I'll call her this afternoon and ask her why she felt the need to go so overboard and explain how embarrassed my daughter is.

I'm glad to see so many others agree that it was an overreaction on her part, as I was really upset and wondering if this type of school policy advocating sending a child home for such a minor hygene issue, was normal procedure.

Carpenter

Tell the headteacher to come here and see how popular she is now.
It might teach her a thing or two about life.

Dudess

Humiliation is a terrible thing to put a child through - many of us experienced it in school ourselves and know the effect it can have, but would changing schools be a bit drastic? Has she friends there? Definitely flag the principal's unreasonable and unprofessional behaviour, but would changing school be a bridge too far?

Sleepy

I'd go a lot further than a complaint. I'd ask for her resignation.

Any adult who'll make such a mountain out of a molehill and treat a child in such a degrading fashion shouldn't be anywhere near a school. She's clearly unfit to work with children.

dan_d

Not a parent, but does she treat kids who get pen/marker on their fingers, or paint from Art on their hands and clothes, or food from their lunch on themselves in the same manner?

Seems very,very strange. Anyone who knows anything about kids knows that cleanliness is not top of their list of important things and that's totally ok. And she should know that better than anyone.

CJhaughey

dark crystal wrote: »

Yeah, I think I'll call her this afternoon and ask her why she felt the need to go so overboard and explain how embarrassed my daughter is.

Don't call her, write a letter.
She could very well twist your call to say that you rang and verbally abused her.
A letter is documentation and tends to get better results IMO.

Babooshka

CJhaughey wrote: »

Don't call her, write a letter.
She could very well twist your call to say that you rang and verbally abused her.
A letter is documentation and tends to get better results IMO.

Yes but I would call her anyway to make her aware that you're sending a letter. I'd call and keep it very formal, not aggressive, just formal but polite, ask her who she answers to and tell her they'll be hearing from you in writing.

Jeez, there used to be kids in my school with lice jumping out of their heads in the 70's and the teachers were too scared to call their parents (they knew what their parents were like).
A bit of dirt on a child's hands is no reason to call you and I'd say she needs a wake up call.

Noo

Yoghurts were the worst. Monday lunchtime a spillage down my jumper would be guaranteed, then it'd have to stay there all week because my mam didint have enough time to clean and dry my uniform for the next day, and dont get me started on wiping my nose with my sleeves, crunchy sleeves by the end of the week, goodtimes!

OCD much? that one would have suspended me!

Jelly2

Noo wrote: »

Yoghurts were the worst. Monday lunchtime a spillage down my jumper would be guaranteed, then it'd have to stay there all week because my mam didint have enough time to clean and dry my uniform for the next day, and dont get me started on wiping my nose with my sleeves, crunchy sleeves by the end of the week, goodtimes!

OCD much? that one would have suspended me!

Ah, the good old days! When we wore the same clothes, bar underwear, for three days, and then our second outfit for the last two... All handmedowns from older sisters...:)
And then our one good outfit for mass on Sunday.

dark crystal

Well I rang her and questioned why she did what she did and she said she rang because she didn't want the other kids in the class to be saying 'oh look at the dirty child'....absolute bullsh!t.

I asked her why she didn't just ask her to wash her hands in the bathroom and she said it wasn't her responsibility to keep the children clean, or else she would be there all day cleaning them!!

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that I told her I was not happy about how she handled the situation and that I believed she totally overreacted, leading to my daughter feeling embarrassed over something completely harmless. She apologised if that's how I felt, but seemed to be doing it just to appease me, not because she was in any way contrite.

I think this woman must come from the cleanliness is next to godliness type brigade and honestly feels she was justified in doing what she did.

I will write a letter to the board of management, just to query the incident and clarify their policies on such issues, but I don't want to make a bigger issue of it in case she takes it out on my daughter in some way. I can see her exaggerating the incident to favour her side of things and then it becomes my word against hers at that stage.

I'll have a chat with my daughter later and see if she's comfortable staying at the school after the summer. There's a good school closer by and she's expressed interest in going there before, so it might be the impetus we need to change.

Dades

Writing a letter will at least "officialise" the incident.

Who knows, maybe there will have been other parents who have taken the time to write to the board about this woman and this might flag something further up the food chain.

vicwatson

but I don't want to make a bigger issue of it in case she takes it out on my daughter in some way

If she does that then bash her !:rolleyes:

Sleepy

Of if she's genuinely OCD, request a meeting with her for a LONG chat some Monday when you've spent the weekend gardening and haven't showered in 2 days

Daisy M

This woman sounds like a bit of a nutter to be honest, Have a word with other parents and see what the general concensus is, could be possible she is having an off day but you need to be sure there is no way you want your child attending a school where the person in charge has such poor judgement.
It doesnt say a lot about her and her personality if she wouldnt even help a little girl wash her hands. My kids have often came home from school with tales of the junior teacher having to clean up a child because they were sick or had an accident, this is something that any decent human being would do for a child .

meg3178

I once had a problem with a headteacher when my children were young. Like you, I was unhappy with his response, even though he mumbled a half hearted apology. I wrote to the board of management and also sent copies of my complaint to the headteacher and the DOE and requested a written apology and assurance that my child would not be treated unfairly again.
well, he had such a turnaround! I received a written apology and my child was never treated unfairly again.

If you don't think your child was treated with respect, then stand up for her. We live in a different Ireland to 20 years ago, although there are still some teachers who would love to go back to the old days!
Your child has the right to a happy time at school and your have the right to feel comfortable in the knowledge she is in great hands. If this incident has caused you both to feel otherwise, then it needs to be addressed in writing. Remember, you are the parent and it is your right to question the people you entrust your daughter to.

chirogirl

How awful!!! ....just for a tiny bit of dirt.

I remember when I was at primary school, you'd get the odd unkempt kid but they were never singled out of the classroom by the teacher / principal.

CrazyRabbit

Bordering bullying of a child by a teacher, and should be reported to the board of management for the school.

tfitzgerald

Dee42 wrote: »

BTW I would also write a strong letter of complaint to the board of management of the school

This is your only road . Write a strong worded but polite letter to the BOM and tell them you expect a reply

planetX

Crazy behaviour. I count it as a good day at school when my child comes home covered in mud and generally filthy. Do they not do outdoor sports in this school?- 100% of the class will have dirty nails after that. Playing outside at lunch, more dirt - who cares?

Besides I thought after the swine flu hysteria that all kids were supposed to be encouraged to frequently wash hands themselves. Sending someone home to wash their hands is just stupid.

The Princess Bride

Hi OP
As a mother with a heart,I was horrified that an adult would treat a child like this-that this adult is in a position of authority begs serious questions.
I would not discuss this event any further in front of your daughter,she may develop a complex.
Only a few weeks left until summer holidays,so each evening when she comes home from school,just ask casually how was her day,and tell her how yours was (eg: one good thing that happened/one not so good thing)
I personally would not be discussing issue with other parents,as people talk,and other children talk and within days the story will have been multiplied and altered.

Write everything down as it happened and, yes,seriously consider consulting the Board of Management- bearing in mind the Principal may be on the board.

As to changing your child to another school, you'll have to ask yourself why you sent her there in the first place, sometimes it makes a difficult situation worse by having to start a child in new school,where friendships are already established.
Lastly, contact the National Parents Council for advice,number on internet.
Best of luck,it's not easy being a parent sometimes,as others rattle our
cages- enjoy your daughter,she's lucky you care

Tayla

I am very rarely shocked but oh my god :eek:

That is a disgrace, your poor child.

You definitely need to report that as that is an appalling way for her to react.
She had no right to react like that....none whatsoever.

It sounds like the way the nuns would have reacted back in the day of Magdelane homes....

Poor you, my blood is actually boiling on your behalf :mad:

smileyeyes

OMG...... is all I can say... I am in total and utter shock!!!!:eek:

This is absolutely disgraceful!! A bit of dirt never harmed anyone! I agree with previous posters that the principal totally over-reacted and was out of order!

Your poor daughter...I can understand why you would be so upset for her!

I would not let this matter go without an official apology! And, I probably would change schools also and let the principal and teacher know exactly why you are changing schools!!!

Let us know how is it going! I wish you and your daughter all the very best of luck!!! xxxx

amen

a bit off post but

Possibly the only thing in relation to hygiene that the teacher should have a major issue with is if a child has lice and the teacher sees this

Lice generally favour children/people with good hygiene and clean hair.

dark crystal

Quick update:

I kept my daughter off school the next day, because she was genuinely upset and didn't want to go in.

Cue 3 O'clock and my elder daughter arrives home and tells me the principal had called her out of class to the office to enquire as to why my younger daughter hadn't gone on her school tour. She said she was out because she was feeling ill (I told her this was the reason, because my younger daughter was too embarrassed to tell her the real reason), to which the principal apparantly snorted and said that wasn't the reason at all, sure wasn't it because she had sent her home the previous day to have a shower because she looked like she had been "dragged up and down a chimney".

I saw red at that point, picked up the phone and proceeded to tell the principal in no uncertain terms how dare she a) get my other daughter involved and b) use such offensive and untrue language to describe the incident.
I told her she had not only acted unprofessionally, but had caused distress to my daughter. She was also informed that I would be taking the matter to the Board of Management and removing my daughter from the school after the summer. I also told her not to discuss the matter any further with any of my children, or I would report her to the Board of Education for misconduct.

I am completely at a loss as to why she has decided to exaggerate and exascerbate the incident to such a degree. The woman comes across as a vicious shrew with some axe to grind at this stage - I was so upset yesterday, I shut myself in my bedroom and cried for 20 minutes.

anyway, I have contacted another school and they are sending me out an application form to go on a waiting list for September. I'm hoping the fact she lives so nearby will swing it and she'll be enrolled there, or else I'm at a loss! I'll be damned if I ever let her set foot in that school come September.

Honestly, I haven't been this angry in a long, long time.

LadyMayBelle

Apalling behaviour from her. This shouldn't lie. Good on you.

smileyeyes

Well Done DarkCrystal!!

I am still so gobsmacked at the principal's unprofessional and quite frankly disgusting behaviour!! How dare she!:mad:

Daisy M

I am so shocked, I think regardless of weather you move your child or not this woman needs to be reported immediately she is clearly not suited to her position and is coming across as unhinged, is she new to teaching?

kaa

dark crystal wrote: »

The more I think about it, the angrier I'm getting.

I'm actually thinking of switching schools in Spetember. There have been numerous stories about this particular principle and her OCD issues, it just seems my daughter was the poor sap who got picked on today.

I'm wondering how hard it would be to get her a place in another primary school over the summer.....

o i would be fuming aswell girl. i mean come on abit of dirt under the nails. they are kids like...its there job to get dirty.
i dont think you are over reacting at all.

well i dont know how hard it would to get her changed like.
but i think you should complain about the principle and get the other parents of kids she had picked on too....and you might be surprised how many other parents she has offended over the years.

angelfire9

As I always tell my mother when my eldest comes in from the garden covered from head to toe in muck..... A mucky child is a happy child"

dark crystal

angelfire9 wrote: »

As I always tell my mother when my eldest comes in from the garden covered from head to toe in muck..... A mucky child is a happy child"

Ha ha, that's it!

My daughter is such a tomboy - two of her best friends are boys - and she'd have a fit if I tried to put her in summer dress and sandals!

She's the type of child that you have to drag the jogging pants off her to put them in the wash and I actually have to time her in the shower, to make sure she has a proper wash!

Dirty nails are a fact of life with this one, but she's very clean, other the hands, which she uses to climb walls, play in the garden etc., always has a clean uniform/hair/shoes, so that's why this principal has really got me angry by claiming she needed a shower. She was perfectly clean and tidy, except for the fingernails and elbows that one morning, which could have been taken care of with a bit of soap and water in the bathroom.

Ah well, I'm sure she'll have a great summer, getting as mucky as she likes and then hopefully, this new school will be a new start for her.