If petrol was €2 a litre, would you ditch the car?

yer man!

Just wondering if the price of fuel got to €2 a litre, would you get the bus/train/cycle/walk instead? with more passengers on public transport it would be able to develop and actually be usable. would you agree?

dlofnep

I find myself driving much less lately. Just can't afford the petrol as it is. I think at 2 a litre, I'd probably only use the car when it's pissing raining out.

mink_man

wouldn't be financially viable so yes.

longhalloween

Id stop at every bus stop on the way to work and offer a lifts for petrol money.

L1011

Company car - so, no.

My job is physically impossible to do without one and I've unlimited personal use of it as part of my contract too.

hi.im.fred

2litre petrol.. so yes..

n97 mini

Was in the paper recently that people have cut down on their driving a lot due to the price of fuel. So it's already happening.

PcAngel

I have no choice but to use the car,so no.

Atlantic Dawn

When we leave the Euro in August 2012 I will worry about it as inflation will be massive, before then as I keep my job I couldn't give a flying fcuk and when we hit that date all my cash will be in sterling or euro so it won't bother me as much as the half wits who think we are invincible.

vibe666

couldn't get to work without it, so no.

public transport is a joke and without a car it would take me longer just to walk to the nearest bus stop (30 minutes) than it does to drive to work (20 minutes). then add about 45 minutes on the bus journey and another 30 minute walk the other end and more in bus fares than it costs me to drive in the first place (even driving a thirsty diesel jeep AND at €2 a litre AND the toll). then do the whole thing all over again in reverse to get home?

no thanks, i'd rather pay for the fuel and get there in speed and comfort without getting drenched on the way.

AlekSmart

yer man! wrote: »

Just wondering if the price of fuel got to €2 a litre, would you get the bus/train/cycle/walk instead? with more passengers on public transport it would be able to develop and actually be usable. would you agree?

As MYOB's post illustrates,there will always be a number of car users who for various reasons will NOT give up it's use.

However,what I feel is rapidly developing here is a forced return to perhaps 1970's car ownership/usership figures.

We are,very shortly now,going to see a rebalancing of the Motor Taxation system due,it is said,to too many people opting for new,fuel efficient and low emission vehicles and therefore depriving the Authorities of cash-flow.

Road Tolling is being expanded and subject to increases.

Fuel costs are highly volatile with no Government committment to reducing it's tax-take.

Insurance premia are also on an upward track,as will be the cost of NCT and Driver Licencing.

All taken to gether this means the cost of accquiring,owning and maintaining a private car is approaching a level which is unsustainable to people in a situation where household incomes are falling rapidly.

What should be worrying people is the apparent Government Policy to allow Public Transport to stagnate and even retreat from current levels......The country really does need to accept and plan for a totally different dynamic in how it moves around.....chances of that...?...... Zero..?? :rolleyes:

vibe666

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When we leave the Euro in August 2012

saywhatnow? when did this happen?

i wouldn't worry too much about that tho, the world is going to end anyway (again) in december 2012 isn't it?

Atlantic Dawn

vibe666 wrote: »

saywhatnow? when did this happen?

i wouldn't worry too much about that tho, the world is going to end anyway (again) in december 2012 isn't it?

I apologise for documenting my trips to the future but at some stages I feel I must inform the others .

Wolfe Tone

But people will still spend a fiver on a pint or 1:50 for half a litre of water... Wouldn't make much difference, the cars wouldnt be ditched.

Aard

yer man! wrote: »

Just wondering if the price of fuel got to €2 a litre, would you get the bus/train/cycle/walk instead? with more passengers on public transport it would be able to develop and actually be usable. would you agree?

Less car use, more demand for busses, better bus service... the cycle continues.

robinph

dlofnep wrote: »

I find myself driving much less lately. Just can't afford the petrol as it is. I think at 2 a litre, I'd probably only use the car when it's pissing raining out.

You could buy a coat for when it's raining?

TCP/IP

Nope no way would I ditch the car. Dont care about the price of fuel love driving to much.
And this is coming from somebody with a 3litre twin turbo and do around 30k a year

Crasp

thankfully my motorbike is both faster and more economical than a car! easier to get parking too.

parsi

Unlike a lot of the regular posters in this forum I don't have a free travel pass from social welfare so I would still use the car but would try and balance it.

For example if we (as a family) took the bus to town it would cost around 6.40 each way. If we drive to the park and ride it'll cost €5 plus petrol (around 2km in total).

doolox

I was in the position of having a job in the city centre 18 months ago and I was under the impression that parking wasn't available at the time and did 3 months using the bus to and from work. Once I got permission to park in the company car park ( boss wanted earlier starts than busses run...) and not having to worry about jams due to early start early leave i never went near busses again. A 1 HOUR trip on bus + a walk down Pearse St through inumerable junctions and lights became a half hour trip by car and made the job much more doable.

Public transport + long walks to access it are not doable for most of the year in out climate. I must have Mediterranean ancestry as our inclement, wet climate doesn't seem to affect most Irish people as much as it affects me......

AlekSmart

parsi wrote: »

Unlike a lot of the regular posters in this forum I don't have a free travel pass from social welfare so I would still use the car but would try and balance it.

For example if we (as a family) took the bus to town it would cost around 6.40 each way. If we drive to the park and ride it'll cost €5 plus petrol (around 2km in total).

The nub of the question......That price differential does not equate in any way,shape or form,to an effective means of attracting users to the Public Bus Service.

That €6.40 figure would need to be reduced by at least 25% if the thing is to stack-up at all.

The major problem now is that nobody,NTA included,appears to have the remotest appreciation of what can be achieved with a little inventive appreciation of the abilities of the Bus Service.

Instead,as Private Motoring costs escalate rapidly,the only NTA response has been to sanction significant Fare increases even to pre-paid tickets and then to accept cost-cutting service reductions in tandem.... is there any logic on display here...?

If this lack of policy is maintained,the old photographs of hordes of Dubliners in top-coats pedalling furiously across O Connell Bridge on an All-Steel Raleigh will assume relevance once again....except this time the poor buggers will have cycled in from Drogheda,Gorey or Portlaoise.......:)

corktina

petrol is cheap...compare the basic pre tax price to a bottle of milk... or a glass of coca cola

CiaranC

corktina wrote: »

petrol is cheap...compare the basic pre tax price to a bottle of milk... or a glass of coca cola

How many litres of Coca Cola do you buy a week?

I already ditched the car. Its very doable if you move along the luas/dart lines. Saves me an absolute fortune. A lot of lads on here are car entusiasts though, dont see them giving up their motors at any price.

professore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

When we leave the Euro in August 2012 I will worry about it as inflation will be massive, before then as I keep my job I couldn't give a flying fcuk and when we hit that date all my cash will be in sterling or euro so it won't bother me as much as the half wits who think we are invincible.

I remember a similar prediction for the IMF coming in at the end of March of this year and remember thinking it was very pessimistic ....

corktina

CiaranC wrote: »

How many litres of Coca Cola do you buy a week?

.

not many, too dear...:p

professore

Thing is that buses will get more expensive too if the price of diesel keeps going north. Of course it's still way more expensive owning a car than using buses and lots of taxis.

KindOfIrish

I've seen a statistic somewhere, that an average Irish car drives twice mileage per year comparing to a continental european car and 50% more miles to UK car. Irish drive around the clock like crazy. Where are are you always driving to, I wonder?:eek:

Stonewolf

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I've seen a statistic somewhere, that an average Irish car drives twice mileage per year comparing to a continental european car and 50% more miles to UK car. Irish drive around the clock like crazy. Where are are you always driving, I wonder?:eek:

Into Dublin from its suburbs on the West coast.

CiaranC

KindOfIrish wrote: »

I've seen a statistic somewhere, that an average Irish car drives twice mileage per year comparing to a continental european car and 50% more miles to UK car. Irish drive around the clock like crazy. Where are are you always driving to, I wonder?:eek:

Thanks to our property bubble, everyone thought it would be brilliant to buy a gaff in Cavan and commute to Dublin. Sure they could always trade up to somewhere where they'd actually want to live later. Now they are trapped in their cars because, surprise surprise, good public transport is only really viable in centres of population.

3ndahalfof6

There will be plenty of alternatives in the future, I will be getting a solar panel with wheels and a hover board.

robd

Would still stick with car.

2.0L Petrol. Currently put €80-85 in every 2 weeks, so only approx €175 per month @ 1.50-155 per litre. Would only be approx €240 at 2.00 per litre which is still cheap to me.

Car takes 20-25 mins at 8.30-9.00am. Would have to take 2 buses with trip in and out of Dublin City Centre which would prob take 1 hr to 1 hr 30 mins. That's up to 2 hrs extra per day wasted which is of greater value to me.

Wife in similar position travel wise but her 1.1l only uses €40-45 every 2 weeks so she would stick with it too.

Will be interesting to see how the welfare classes adopt to higher petrol prices. 10 years or so ago cheap cars with cheap petrol opened up private transport to all. That's why public transport is struggling today. Could see a big shift back to it.

Also, suspect some B CO2 cars at high end of band (such as BMW 320d/520d and Audi A4/A6 2.0tdi) could see a 100% increase in motor tax in next budget from €156 to €300.

End of the day people look at it from a value to them perspective.

Losty Dublin

I've pretty much ditched the car in favour of mainly buses over the last six months. I bought one of the DB 12 month tickets, which is working out a little under €20 per week all in. The car still gets out for the household shopping, my second job (Needs equipment), trips to awkward places etc but it's getting silly the cost of fuel. My tank takes 65 litres to fill; that's €100 a go :eek: and as I have public transport options at hand, for me my hand has been played.

flyingsnail

nope I would keep the car. I would probably go to public transport for some journeys but I regularly make journeys where there would be no public transport options. Early mornings, late night (not that it has to be that late for there to be no public transport) or just none at all.

spank_inferno

If Petrol was €3 a litre I still would not give up the car.

Reason being is that the bus also uses fuel and that increased cost would be passed to me as the paying passenger.

So one way or another I pay for higher fuel costs.

As things stand at the moment its much cheaper for my wife & I to commute via car than via public transport

Aard

It all depends on where people live. Those living in commuter towns would of course prefer the car, but those closer in would probably move to PT.

holidaygirl

Not really an option for me or most other's where we live. There are no public transport options, the nearest buses would be 7 miles away and the nearest train station 10 miles, and they still wouldn't get a lot of people near where they need to be.

There are no home delivery options for groceries either. I will have a 20 mile return journey daily to work when I head back after maternity leave and this is not including dropping ds off to be minded!

D'Peoples Voice

I probably wouldn't have a choice but to ditch the car.
I live in Dublin 6, so if diesel hits €2 a litre,
I'd have scumbags siffling my tank ever time I fill it.
I'd never be able to afford to keep diesel in it unless i get a vicious guard dog.

The good thing is though that fewer car users would see a more efficient public transport as there would be less traffic on the roads.

Sofiztikated

Not a mission. Couldn't do without it.

Get to work? Walk? Country roads, not a fear of it. Cycle? No thanks. Again, country roads. Also, public facing job, last thing I need is to be going in all windswept and soaking wet.

I only live 10km from work, and herself works in the same place. However, due to nature of hotel work, we start and finish at different times each day. And shopping? Unless I shop in the local Centra?

Have stopped going to Dublin as much, used to go and visit friends once or twice a month. Now? Maybe 6 months.

stimpson

I live inside the M50 and work in the city centre. I worked out that I use about a litre of diesel each way which equates to 3 euro a day. The bus would cost me 1.85 each way. I need to keep the car so tax and insurance would be paid anyway.

To top it all, I can get into the office in 15 minutes in the car. It approaches an hour on the bus including walking to stops and waiting for a bus. Even with 4 euro diesel it would be worth every penny as I wouldn't have to travel with the great unwashed.

Cuddlesworth

I used to live on one of the main QBC bus routes into the city(N11) and now live a 3 minute walk away from the Killiney dart station. I work in Stephens Green. At 20 Euros a week in petrol and a 40 minute commute compared to 20 Euros a week for the bus and a 2 hour commute I know what I'm sticking with.

AlekSmart

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I used to live on one of the main QBC bus routes into the city(N11) and now live a 3 minute walk away from the Killiney dart station. I work in Stephens Green. At 20 Euros a week in petrol and a 40 minute commute compared to 20 Euros a week for the bus and a 2 hour commute I know what I'm sticking with.

And herein lies the point I keep attempting to make.

If,and its a big IF,Government and it's agencies such as the NTA,DTO or whatever are actually serious about this Public Transport "Thang" then they will need to address this comparative disadvantage.

Apart from premium rated services such as the Swords Express (the key is in the second part of it's name),Aircoach
and a few others,the authorities appear unaware of the requirement to sex-up the basic public transport service to attract the car-driver.

It,s probably music to any Finance Ministers ears also to read of folks willin to pay €4 per litre for their diesel...plenty of elasticity there so ?

vibe666

also, at 6'5" i practically have to snap my legs to fit in a cramped bus/coach seat.

Absurdum

No. I spend ~€90 a week on petrol, another €30 isn't the end of the world. It may influence my future car choice though.

CiaranC

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I used to live on one of the main QBC bus routes into the city(N11) and now live a 3 minute walk away from the Killiney dart station. I work in Stephens Green. At 20 Euros a week in petrol and a 40 minute commute compared to 20 Euros a week for the bus and a 2 hour commute I know what I'm sticking with.

You need to factor in initial outlay for buying the car, parking fees, tax, insurance, NCT, parts and maintenance as well.

Why does it take you two hours to get from Killiney DART station to Stephens Green btw? Are you going via Howth?

-Chris-

AlekSmart wrote: »

the authorities appear unaware of the requirement to sex-up the basic public transport service to attract the car-driver.

But, but, but... they had that amaaaazing "Cheat On Your Car" ad campaign. Surely that is an adequate amount of sexing?

Stonewolf

CiaranC wrote: »

You need to factor in initial outlay for buying the car, parking fees, tax, insurance, NCT, parts and maintenance as well.

Most of which most of these people will be paying anyway because while they may switch to PT for commutes they'd be fools to abandon the car completely. Many companies also provide free parking to employees (largely dependant on location admittedly).

CiaranC

Stonewolf wrote: »

Most of which most of these people will be paying anyway because while they may switch to PT for commutes they'd be fools to abandon the car completely.

Either give up the car or dont, whats the point in paying thousands for a car and not using it. Makes no sense.

Many companies also provide free parking to employees (largely dependant on location admittedly).

This is less prevalent where PT is actually a viable alternative to driving - e.g. in Dublin City where space is at a premum.

LXFlyer

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I used to live on one of the main QBC bus routes into the city(N11) and now live a 3 minute walk away from the Killiney dart station. I work in Stephens Green. At 20 Euros a week in petrol and a 40 minute commute compared to 20 Euros a week for the bus and a 2 hour commute I know what I'm sticking with.

Killiney-Pearse is 31 minutes on the DART - add 10-15 minutes to walk to SSG - that is 50 minutes - hardly 2 hours!!

robd

CiaranC wrote: »

Either give up the car or dont, whats the point in paying thousands for a car and not using it. Makes no sense.


This is less prevalent where PT is actually a viable alternative to driving - e.g. in Dublin City where space is at a premum.

There's one very big point. Weekends. Dublin is crap for public transport unless you're going to/from An Lar. Most big shopping centres and supermarkets are built around M50 which require car to get to. Kids activities require car to get them to/from also.

You'd have a hard job convincing families to downsize to 1 car let alone give up car entirely. No car suits some U25's only.

That's the culture/society we built during the property boom. Sad but true.

bk

I think the biggest block to public transport working is the way cars are taxed.

Most people own a car and pay very high taxes to purchase it (VAT, VRT, etc.), so once you already own a car, the cost of running it isn't that much more then using public transport.

In an ideal world, there would be no taxes on buying a car. All VAT, VRT, road tax, insurance, etc. would instead be put on the price of petrol (in a revenue neutral manner).

This would put a much bigger gap between the price of using a car versus public transport. It would make it more likely people would leave their car at home for their daily commute and only use it for special occasions.

There are however three difficult problems to overcome to get to this ideal situation:

1) Northern Ireland needs to do the same, or everyone just goes north to buy their petrol.

2) How do you bring it in without penalising people who have already paid their VAT, VRT, etc. on their car.

3) If people switch to pt in large numbers, pt speeds become much better, but the government lose a large source of income while having increased pt costs.

markpb

robd wrote: »

There's one very big point. Weekends. Dublin is crap for public transport unless you're going to/from An Lar. Most big shopping centres and supermarkets are built around M50 which require car to get to

I don't buy this. I used to live between Santry and Coolock and had three shopping centres all within walking distance (Northside, Omni and Artane). I was also on a direct bus route to Blanchardstown. If I was buying too much shopping to carry on a bus, a taxi to/from the first three of those places was about €5 which is less than people pay for parking in Dundrum (although I accept that most offer free parking).

In any event:

Blachardstown is served by several arterial bus routes, some local bus routes and two orbital bus routes.

Dundrum is served by four arterial routes, one orbital route and the Luas.

Liffey Valley is served by plenty of arterial routes and one local route.

No, they're not perfect routes and yes, there are people who live in places that aren't linked to their local shopping centre but they have far from the dearth of public transport you allude to.