Educate Together has won the right to establish and run second-level schools

Delirium

Some good news regarding second level education.

Educate Together, the multidenominational schools group, has won the right to establish and run second-level schools after a lengthy campaign.

In a highly significant move, Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn will today announce the Department of Education will grant recognition to the group at its agm in Wexford.

The decision means parents will have a new choice of school at second level. At present, most second-level schools are run by Catholic religious orders. The alternative is mainly vocational schools and community and comprehensive schools.

Educate Together currently controls 58 schools at primary level, 27 of which are in the greater Dublin Area. The group has seen spectacular growth in recent years. It has also played a pivotal role in reaching out to immigrant communities in Dublin.

Until now, the group has been unable to respond to the huge demand among parents for the same kind of multidenominational education at second level. Parent and community groups have been actively campaigning for Educate Together second-level schools for years.

Last year, the Department of Education awarded the patronage of a new second-level school in Gorey to Wexford VEC after a poll among parents. More than 950 parents in Gorey voted for the Educate Together option.

The move was seen as a reversal for Educate Together, but its campaign for second-level recognition has gained momentum since the change of government, as Labour has long backed the move.

Parent groups in several areas including Gorey, Wicklow/south Dublin, Lucan in Co Dublin, north Dublin, Cork and Limerick have been active in campaigning for the second-level schools.

Last year, a TCD research study found 90 per cent of parents with children in Educate Together schools would send their children to second-level schools run by the multidenominational group.

Educate Together has stressed it wants to deliver a new model of second-level education within a more child-friendly environment. It has been critical of the dominance of the CAO points system and rote learning within the current senior cycle.

According to last year’s survey, parents in Educate Together schools say their main priority is social and emotional development of pupils, rather than high academic achievement. Only 35 per cent of parents with children in Educate Together schools believe academic results are the best indication of a “good” school.

Educate Together promises its second-level schools will “nurture critical and creative thinkers, problem-solvers, effective communicators and innovators. Our schools will operate as truly democratic learning communities, empowering students, teachers and parents to work together towards educational aims in an atmosphere of equality and respect.’’

Educate Together opened its first school, the Dalkey school project, in 1978. The core principles of Educate Together are that schools are multidenominational, co-educational, learner-centred and democratically run.

Its campaign for second-level recognition has been backed by several leading education figures including Prof Áine Hyland, former professor of education at UCC; Prof Sheelagh Drudy, chair of education, UCD; Rose Tully, and the National Parents Council (post-primary). Board members of Educate Together include former education minister Mary O’Rourke and former DCU president Ferdinand von Prondzynski.

Emer Nowlan, head of education and network development at Educate Together, has said parents at the schools “are used to an environment where everyone’s background is equally respected, and where pupils, parents and teachers all participate in every aspect of school life”.

Irish Times

stimpson

Good news indeed.

Mistress 69

That is great news.

Colibri

Fantastic!

CerebralCortex

This is great!!!

Zillah

*clunk clunk clunk*

That's the sound of another nail being hammered into the coffin of Catholic dominance.

great news

J C

Excellent News

AhSureTisGrand

J C wrote: »

Excellent News

You know these schools are a breeding ground for Materialist Atheism right?

J C

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

You know these schools are a breeding ground for Materialist Atheism right?

I don't know any such thing ... most of the Atheists I know attended church schools ... and many of the Christians I know attended state school.

Dave!

Thanks whore!

Great news though

dead one

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

You know these schools are a breeding ground for Materialist Atheism right?

You know, How many truths have been sacrificed at altar of materialism to make these school a breeding ground.....
Scientists say....... that the material matter is made up of 99.99 % of nothingness and the .01% is not even material..........hypnotized by an illusion, a Great cosmic joke to laugh:)

Zillah

dead one wrote: »

that the material matter is made up of 99.99 % of nothingness and the .01% is not even material..........hypnotized by an illusion, a Great cosmic joke to laugh

Step 1: Fail to understand something.
Step 2: Assume that thing supports your supernatural world view.

stimpson

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

You know these schools are a breeding ground for Materialist Atheism right?

I for one welcome our new Materialistic Atheist overlords.

Dave!

Whoever posted this news story was gonna be inundated with thanks, cos it's awesome news

Dades

Great news.

Crap thread.

J C

Dave! wrote: »

Whoever posted this news story was gonna be inundated with thanks, cos it's awesome news

I think it's awesome ... as well !!!!

... next topic ... please!!!!

strobe

Zillah wrote: »

Step 1: Fail to understand something.
Step 2: Assume that thing supports your supernatural world view.

Aww, I'm really starting to like Dead One's posts. They are like psychedelic surrealist haikus.

dead one wrote: »

The truth.... whose smoke has been dimmed...

Discrimination is a hellhound

Zillah

Dead One is about as crazy as, but a lot less irritating than, J C. And he's Muslim, which we don't exactly have in huge numbers.

dead one

Zillah wrote: »

Step 1: Fail to understand something.

Step a:Fail to give evidence....
Step b:supporting theories with theories......
Step c: Ignore Your Prejudices for Better Decision-Making

Zillah wrote: »

Step 2: Assume that thing supports your supernatural world view.

Step nothing----:Assume that thing supports your materialistic view.....
nothing----Every thing came out of nothing......;)

strobe wrote: »

Aww, I'm really starting to like Dead One's posts. They are like psychedelic surrealist haikus.

“Prejudice cannot see the things that are because it is always looking for things that aren't”

Zillah wrote: »

Dead One is about as crazy as, but a lot less irritating than, J C. And he's Muslim, which we don't exactly have in huge numbers.

Here is an advice for you...
'A sarcastic person has a superiority complex that can be cured only by the honesty of humility.'

Dades

Fun over.

Next post on this thread unrelated to second-level ET schools gets a card.

Mistress 69

Actually posting when I saw the above so not doing so

robindch

JC-related soapboxing posts moved to specious nonsense thread.

Galvasean

robindch wrote: »

JC-related soapboxing posts moved to specious nonsense thread.

mikhail

I presume this is important for Quinn's patronage plans - are Educate Together going to be the obvious group to transfer those schools to? The article mentioned vocational schools and community schools. I went to a CBS, so I don't know how those work. Do any of them have a network, or are they all one-off locally run schools?

Mistress 69

Dave! wrote: »

Thanks whore!

Great news though

Yes it is great news, and as I said in a previous posting there is a local ET in my area which everybody is impressed with, unlike my view of the mods recent post!:p

expectationlost

mikhail wrote: »

I presume this is important for Quinn's patronage plans - are Educate Together going to be the obvious group to transfer those schools to? The article mentioned vocational schools and community schools. I went to a CBS, so I don't know how those work. Do any of them have a network, or are they all one-off locally run schools?

no ffs the schools will be transferred to the vec.

Dades

^^ Why so testy? Relax.

mikhail

expectationlost wrote: »

no ffs the schools will be transferred to the vec.

I already made it clear that I don't know what the VEC is. Do they teach in lower case there?

J C

mikhail wrote: »

I already made it clear that I don't know what the VEC is. Do they teach in lower case there?

VEC stands for Vocational Education Committee ... and they are a Committee appointed by the Local Authority in each county to run the second level state school system in Ireland ... which conists of Vocational Schools and Community Colleges (some of the latter were formed by the merger of a secondary church school and a vocational school within the same locality).
I went to a state school myself and my children go to a state school ... and all religions co-exist happily together in mutual respect within the school community. Clergy from all denominations are involved at every level within these schools and Biblical Christianity is freely discussed and respected.

It's a very different situation in American Public Schools where agressive Materialism rules supreme ... and nobody is even allowed to mention God ... quite ironic really, in an otherwise overtly Christian country that even writes 'In God We Trust' ... on it's Dollar Bills ... and has freedom of speech enshrined in it's Constitution!!!
The joke apparently is that American teachers are only allowed to trust in God when their salary cheques arrive!!!:)

I understand that Educate Together is a multi-denominational school system ... so I'm sure that they respect and value the beliefs of all of the parents and children attending their schools ... and especially minority religions, just like the situation which currently exists within the state system in Ireland.

liamw

Do Educate Together schools have a generic religion class to teach kids about the different religions around the world and their history?

J C

liamw wrote: »

Do Educate Together schools have a generic religion class to teach kids about the different religions around the world and their history?

Educate Together don't have any second level schools yet.
The new RE programme is a mandatory subject in the Junior Certificate in our local state school ... it covers the beliefs of all of the major religions ... and it even has a section on Atheism and Materialism.

I understand that the 'science and religion' module is particularly interesting ... and it has led to many very healthy debates on the 'origins issue' ... as well as in Biology class!!!!

... all part and parcel of a good liberal education.

AhSureTisGrand

J C wrote: »

The new RE programme is a mandatory subject in the Junior Certificate in our local state school ... it covers the beliefs of all of the major religions ... and it even has a section on Atheism and Materialism.

Mandatory in that particular school, but not by law

I understand that the 'science and religion' module is particularly interesting ... and it has led to many very healthy debates!!!!

... all part and parcel of a good liberal education.

Having suffered through the course myself, I must say that I feel it was a highly frustrating waste of time. 4-5 classes a week of what was at best vague, pseudo-philosophical bullish*t. Perhaps it's taught better in other schools, but I would have got a much better education were it not for the imposition of the RE course upon me in the name of a "good liberal" education

liamw

J C wrote: »

The new RE programme is a mandatory subject in the Junior Certificate in our local state school ... it covers the beliefs of all of the major religions ... and it even has a section on Atheism and Materialism.

Considering atheism isn't a religion or belief system, I imagine you mean it covers the fact that some people reject or do not subscribe to religious belief.

J C

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Mandatory in that particular school, but not by law.

I'm not sure ... nobody has tested it by trying to take their children out of class ... we are all a pretty liberal and enlightened bunch of people, I guess!!!

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Having suffered through the course myself, I must say that I feel it was a highly frustrating waste of time. 4-5 classes a week of what was at best vague, pseudo-philosophical bullish*t. Perhaps it's taught better in other schools, but I would have got a much better education were it not for the imposition of the RE course upon me in the name of a "good liberal" education

... it has a bit too much relativism, for my tastes ... but it's probably a reasonable compromise.
... and it certainly opens children's minds up to the real world ... and teaches them to cherish and respect differences of opinion ... something that some adults could also do with learning!!!:eek:

J C

liamw wrote: »

Considering atheism isn't a religion or belief system, I imagine you mean it covers the fact that some people reject or do not subscribe to religious belief.

... we have been over this argument ad nauseum on the 'other' thread ... and suffices to say ... that it is not only the Schools RE programme that classifies Atheistic Humanism as a belief system!!!

AhSureTisGrand

J C wrote: »

I'm not sure ... nobody has tested it by trying to take their children out of class ... we are all a pretty liberal and enlightened bunch of people, I guess!!!

I'm pretty sure schools are allowed force otherwise non-mandatory subjects on students

J C

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

I'm pretty sure schools are allowed force otherwise non-mandatory subjects on students

Force probably isn't the right word ... but any curriculum tends have a degree of coercion about it.

Nobody really minds, once everyone is treated with respect ... as Ali-G might say!!!:)

Was RE mandatory in your school ?

FinnLizzy

I went to an ET primary school. The case with religion was that it was an all or nothing scenario.
I remember our class doing a presentation on the month of Ramadan, and our class only had 1 muslim in it. It was interesting, and I didn't think to much into it. If the Daily Mail heard news of such filth, by golly!

RE is replaced with 'core cirriculum', which is basically religion without the praying.

J C

FinnLizzy wrote: »

I went to an ET primary school. The case with religion was that it was an all or nothing scenario.
I remember our class doing a presentation on the month of Ramadan, and our class only had 1 muslim in it. It was interesting, and I didn't think to much into it. If the Daily Mail heard news of such filth, by golly!

RE is replaced with 'core cirriculum', which is basically religion without the praying.

... so does that mean that they would do a presentation on Creation Science ... if there was one Biblical Creationist child in the class?
... or is equality of esteem achieved by doing presentations on all of the main world religions, irrespective of whether there is a child belonging to each religion in a particular class?

Rev Hellfire

The educate together having the right to establish and run second-level schools is a complete non-event imho.

meh.

Newaglish

J C wrote: »

... so does that mean that they would do a presentation on Creation Science ... if there was one Biblical Creationist child in the class?
... or is equality of esteem achieved by doing presentations on all of the main world religions, irrespective of whether there is a child belonging to each religion in a particular class?

I understood and agreed with one of J C's posts. Yikes.

Dave!

FYI - Ruairi Quinn will be interviewed tonight at 10 on Newstalk. Dunno what time exactly, but during whatever show is on then. Coleman At Large?

goose2005

Think it's a bad idea - it legitimises the ridiculous idea of schools having a "patron". The only patron of state-funded schools should be the state.

Dave!

Jayzus that Coleman fella is a total cvnt. He's worse than Vincent poxy Browne.

pH

goose2005 wrote: »

Think it's a bad idea - it legitimises the ridiculous idea of schools having a "patron". The only patron of state-funded schools should be the state.

Have to agree, as much as I'd prefer something like educate together rather than a religious patron, I fail to see the need for either.

We don't need non-state companies to wedge themselves into social security system, to be "patrons" of dole offices, nor in fire-stations, why can't the state just set out a curriculum, organise the teaching of it and get on with it.

Sure, parents and interested parties could have a small role to play on a school board, around peripheral issues such as uniforms, sports etc. but why is there a need for an organisation like educate together to take our money and provide schools with it?

strobe

Dave! wrote: »

Jayzus that Coleman fella is a total cvnt. He's worse than Vincent poxy Browne.

Any use Dave? Missed it, is it worth listening to when it shows up on the site?

recedite

J C wrote: »

VEC stands for Vocational Education Committee ... Clergy from all denominations are involved at every level within these schools and Biblical Christianity is freely discussed and respected.

It's a very different situation in American Public Schools where agressive Materialism rules supreme ... .

I agree. In our local VEC school they call in two priests to give their blessings and conduct prayers at the various special events to which parents are invited. One is RC, one is a Prod. It's to prove how neutral the school is. Unfortunately, it just means twice as much time sitting through the verbose prattling of self important men who are well aware they are making a sales pitch to the lapsed members of their respective communities.

There is also a "meditation room" in the school. It's basically a spare room, looks like any other, and nobody can quite make up their mind what to do with it.

J C wrote: »

I understand that Educate Together is a multi-denominational school system ... so I'm sure that they respect and value the beliefs of all of the parents and children attending their schools ... and especially minority religions, just like the situation which currently exists within the state system in Ireland.

Yeah, there is some sectarian labelling done by theists, differentiating between multi denominational and non denominational. I never really understood it though.

AhSureTisGrand wrote: »

Having suffered through the course myself, I must say that I feel it was a highly frustrating waste of time. 4-5 classes a week of what was at best vague, pseudo-philosophical bullish*t. Perhaps it's taught better in other schools, but I would have got a much better education were it not for the imposition of the RE course upon me in the name of a "good liberal" education

That's pretty much it. They have removed the local bishops from "control" of the schools, but instead of filling the void with useful stuff, like maths, or science or languages, they have filled it with some kind of wishy-washy generic neutral "Politically Correct Religion". I have to say though, that many people are happy enough with that. I seemed to be in a minority when I refused to chant along with the prayer responses. An Irish solution to an Irish problem I suppose.
LOL have I just answered my own question? Is that what "multi -denominational" means?

goose2005 wrote: »

Think it's a bad idea - it legitimises the ridiculous idea of schools having a "patron". The only patron of state-funded schools should be the state.

Interesting point. On the other hand, maybe there is room for having a choice of schools, each with a different brand or ethos. A monopoly is rarely good for the consumer.

Galvasean

recedite wrote: »

There is also a "meditation room" in the school. It's basically a spare room, looks like any other, and nobody can quite make up their mind what to do with it.

We used to have one of those. never seen anyone use it. the key was always getting lost. Had some nice looking cushions in it. Wonder how they felt...

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

pH wrote: »

We don't need non-state companies to wedge themselves into social security system, to be "patrons" of dole offices, nor in fire-stations, why can't the state just set out a curriculum, organise the teaching of it and get on with it.

Having dole office patrons would be fairly hilarious. 'Unemployed Together' would challenge the contemporary practice of handing out dole cheques at mass.

goose2005

recedite wrote: »

Interesting point. On the other hand, maybe there is room for having a choice of schools, each with a different brand or ethos. A monopoly is rarely good for the consumer.

But if there is choice it could be in teaching methods - Montessori schools, standard teaching, high-discipline schools for "problem" children, special schools for the most talented, etc.

i.e. a diversity of schools that caters for the needs of children rather than the bigotries and superstitions of their parents.