Eamon Ryan is new leader of the Green Party

later12

One of the more reputable (and I would tentatively suggest, more popular) members of the Green party, Eamon Ryan, was elected as the party's new leader today following the resignation of John Gormley.

http://businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/30371-greens-elect-eamon-ryan-as/

Eamon Ryan will be leading the party in a full time capacity, aims to win one European seat in the next European election, and aims to win "at least" 20 local government seats during the 2014 elections.

Any thoughts on his chances? Anybody know if other members of the party are staying the course with him? Dan Boyle has indicated on twitter that he hopes to stay ''very much to the fore with the Greens'', although he did not specify anything, nor did any of the previously important figures within the Green party contest this leadership vote.

For Forks Sake

later10 wrote: »

Any thoughts on his chances? Anybody know if other members of the party are staying the course with him? Dan Boyle has indicated on twitter that he hopes to stay ''very much to the fore with the Greens'', although he did not specify anything, nor did any of the previously important figures within the Green party contest this leadership vote.

Dan Boyle is only interested in one thing, and that's Dan Boyle. However the electorate have long since seen through his self-publicising bullsh1t.

The greens are finished, their craven behaviour when in government has ensured they will never be let anywhere near any positions of authority for the foreseeable future.

And good riddance to them.

touts

later10 wrote: »

One of the more reputable (and I would tentatively suggest, more popular) members of the Green party, Eamon Ryan, was elected as the party's new leader today following the resignation of John Gormley.

http://businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/30371-greens-elect-eamon-ryan-as/

Eamon Ryan will be leading the party in a full time capacity, aims to win one European seat in the next European election, and aims to win "at least" 20 local government seats during the 2014 elections.

Any thoughts on his chances? Anybody know if other members of the party are staying the course with him? Dan Boyle has indicated on twitter that he hopes to stay ''very much to the fore with the Greens'', although he did not specify anything, nor did any of the previously important figures within the Green party contest this leadership vote.

Pointless. It's like the remaining officers in the lifeboats of the Titanic banding together to decide who was the new captain.

beeftotheheels

I think it depends a lot on what happens with the independents. I doubt that the core Green vote is all that strong, the core candidate vote for someone like TS is a bit different so if they run strong candidates then they may do well, but not in an election such as we have just had with a million and one candidates.

Their major problem is losing both their transfer friendliness, and their status as a benign protest vote. I think they can recover that in time, just not sure that the next local or European elections will be long enough for the voter anger to subside.

Nijmegen

Eamon Ryan is a decent sort of chap, and the Green party is one based at its core around ideals that are far from anything they did in government.

It doesn't excuse their responsibility during this time, but I wish the Green party/movement well in rebuilding on the kind of core issues that are important to them, and many of which are important to us all.

I'd not vote for them, and I'd harbour a lot of resentment - as would many I imagine - to their actions and lack of leadership when in government. But I think they've got their scolding and can now see if they can go back to their roots.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Chucky the tree

I think they should have went with a leader who wasn't part of the Government. The reason the Green party are toxic is because they stood by and propped up FF for so long, they showed no backbone and no support to their core-voters. I fail to see how this Green party will be any different under someone who is in Government allowed this to happen? Are we supposed to believe that Eamonn Ryan and the Green Party have sudenly found a back-bone and if people were to elect them it would somehow be different?

Lefticus Loonaticus

Eamon Ryan is a waffleing pompus pri*k. Id rather have a conversation with Mary Coughlan than him .

The Greens could have pulled out of government at any time during the crisis and left us with a bit more room for maneuver. Instead they decided to leave FF in there like an elephant in a china shop while we all watched on aghast.

People will remember the greens in government longer than they have remembered the civil war.

Wolfe Tone

I really liked the greens until they went into bed with FF after they said they wouldn't. Will take a lot to get me to vote for them again, I don't like being made a fool of.

later12

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Their major problem is losing both their transfer friendliness, and their status as a benign protest vote. I think they can recover that in time, just not sure that the next local or European elections will be long enough for the voter anger to subside.

Yes I would think similarly. I was a bit surprised at the interview Ryan gave on Drivetime this evening where he stipulated a minimum of 20 seats in local election - I think that is extremely ambitious considering that the Green seats in local elections have gone 8/ 18/ 3 in 1999/ 2004/ 2009. To my knowledge they have never had more than 18 seats at the height of their popularity, so if Eamon Ryan is trying to change that now, he certainly has an enormous task ahead of him.

On the issue of transfer friendliness I think the voters have reasonably short memories. Lets not forget that the last time that Joan Burton worked in the department of social welfare, she was put there as a minister of the 1992 Fianna Fail Government. While she and her party paid for that coalition with FF in the short term, they recovered their position thereafter, and it is now rarely mentioned.

It is true that the disaster surrounding FF and the Irish financial crisis is different to the Ireland of 1992, but the role of the greens in that affair has not been established as detrimental, and I think it will be a factor of diminishing importance should a major effort for Green recovery come about.

I should qualify that I am not a supporter of the greens, but I do think that we are better off with Green voices in the Oireachtas than without.

later12

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This is true, and the greens have never really broken the rural ceiling to their growth. Perhaps if Malcolm Noonan, a Green party executive member and a farmer (who by the way, was only beaten narrowly, apparently) succeeded to the role this might have helped change perceptions.

Nevertheless, the greens know that if anywhere their strength is in urban centres, like the Labour party of the 1990s, and I doubt that rural Ireland will be significantly high on their realistic agenda anyway.

beeftotheheels

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I really liked the greens until they went into bed with FF after they said they wouldn't. Will take a lot to get me to vote for them again, I don't like being made a fool of.

Is this the voice of retribution I hear??? Surely not!

I have to say I think they learned that lesson, so much so that I voted for them this time just gone.

In terms of acts of political naivety I can think of few that would surpass that particular ****-up, but I think it was naivety and the consequences of that decision have now been borne.

goat2

i thought i would never again hear of them, and was hoping to never hear of them

Wolfe Tone

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Is this the voice of retribution I hear??? Surely not!

I have to say I think they learned that lesson, so much so that I voted for them this time just gone.

In terms of acts of political naivety I can think of few that would surpass that particular ****-up, but I think it was naivety and the consequences of that decision have now been borne.

Haha, they can't be trusted! While I couldn't vote myself back then I persuaded my parents that the green party was the way to go... Egg on my face.

This time out I didn't even give them a preference. Hopefully they will fix things up and sort themselves out because they have some good ideas.

Nodin

later10 wrote: »

One of the more reputable (and I would tentatively suggest, more popular) members of the Green party, Eamon Ryan, was elected as the party's new leader today following the resignation of John Gormley.

http://businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/30371-greens-elect-eamon-ryan-as/

Eamon Ryan will be leading the party in a full time capacity, aims to win one European seat in the next European election, and aims to win "at least" 20 local government seats during the 2014 elections.

Any thoughts on his chances? Anybody know if other members of the party are staying the course with him? Dan Boyle has indicated on twitter that he hopes to stay ''very much to the fore with the Greens'', although he did not specify anything, nor did any of the previously important figures within the Green party contest this leadership vote.

Unless they actually make the effort to become a party with contacts in the communities most affected by their policies, the best they can hope for is to sneak a seat or two when all other alternatives are deemed unpalatable.

later12

Nodin wrote: »

Unless they actually make the effort to become a party with contacts in the communities most affected by their policies, the best they can hope for is to sneak a seat or two when all other alternatives are deemed unpalatable.

Actually, from an objective standpoint, it makes far more logical sense to seek seats in the constituencies beyond where their policies might cause heartache.

It's the same as how conservative parties traditionally attract middle class votes by claiming to tackle welfare scroungers. They're not actually after the votes of welfare scroungers. There is a large market in the urban vote open to the Green party if they can make use of it.

If I were working with the Greens, I would ignore rural Ireland altogether. Just cut it out. And I'd instead re-establish their immediate strengths. The Greens have, don't forget, been a significant political force based almost totally on urban votes in the past.

Callan57

No chance of avoiding that silly, supercilious smirk then ... I can't abide him. They should have gone back to Trevor he's the only Green with any backbone & the only one who could have saved that Party.

Zimmerframe

On John Gormley's handover to Eamonn Ryan
Leonard's Cohen's lyrics seem apt.

"I'm giving you command."
"Command of what, there's no one here
There's only you and me --
All the rest are dead or in retreat......................

gaffer91

I honestly think the Greens are surplus to requirements in 2011. They have no real "traditional" base, are no longer very transfer friendly, and with no Dail representation it will be very hard for them to get their ideas across. Also all parties are now fully aware of the dangers of environmental damage and climate change and the necessity to find more renewable energy and therefore there is no real need for a party who try and hijack green issues as being solely the concern of their party. All in all, I doubt Ryan will make much difference and I expect them to go the way of the PDs.

beeftotheheels

One important distinction to make (amongst many) in the Greens vs PDs debate is that PD voters tended to come from the more right wing authoritarian camp whereas Green voters would tend to come from the left wing liberal camp.

I think you'll find the latter camp generally tend to be more forgiving than the former.

later12

beeftotheheels wrote: »

One important distinction to make (amongst many) in the Greens vs PDs debate is that PD voters tended to come from the more right wing authoritarian camp whereas Green voters would tend to come from the left wing liberal camp.

I think you'll find the latter camp generally tend to be more forgiving than the former.

That's true. Even beyond these parties' camps, in the same way that Jacques Delors once said that "you can't easily fall in love with the single market", for the general public it is not quite easy to warm to what might be perceived as the 'cold heart of a conservative'.

I always found it very hard to like the PDs, even though I agreed with their policy on almost everything, whereas there is something benign about voting for muesli-eating-sandal-wearing hippies, almost as though just to encourage them.

raymon

Greens were accomplices.

They were propping up FF when they were at their most destructive.

Shame on the greens

Shame on FF

gaffer91

raymon wrote: »

Greens were accomplices.

They were propping up FF when they were at their most destructive.

Shame on the greens

Shame on FF

Honestly, was there any real need to say "shame on FF" there?? Why can't people on boards move on, at least to the point where whey only slag FF off on the threads devoted it to it?? This kind of "shame on FF" stuff is just tedious. (I've been reading boards for a while).

beeftotheheels

raymon wrote: »

Greens were accomplices.

They were propping up FF when they were at their most destructive.

Oh no, that honor belongs solely to the PDs! The Greens may not have helped with the ending, they are due blame in that.

But the bubble was inflated by FF while the PDs were keeping them in power, 2000 to 2004 was when our income as opposed to transactional tax take was cut while public expenditure went through the roof and property tax incentives were supported while capital gains tax was halved. This is when FF were at their most destructive.

raymon

gaffer91 wrote: »

Honestly, was there any real need to say "shame on FF" there?? Why can't people on boards move on, at least to the point where whey only slag FF off on the threads devoted it to it?? This kind of "shame on FF" stuff is just tedious. (I've been reading boards for a while).

I'm sorry but greens should not be given a clean slate .

They share the blame .

gaffer91

raymon wrote: »

I'm sorry but greens should not be given a clean slate .

They share the blame .

I never said they should. My post was entirely about the "shame on FF" comment if you read it again.

Macha

later10 wrote: »

This is true, and the greens have never really broken the rural ceiling to their growth. Perhaps if Malcolm Noonan, a Green party executive member and a farmer (who by the way, was only beaten narrowly, apparently) succeeded to the role this might have helped change perceptions.

Nevertheless, the greens know that if anywhere their strength is in urban centres, like the Labour party of the 1990s, and I doubt that rural Ireland will be significantly high on their realistic agenda anyway.

This is not entirely true. The party has a lot of rural supporters. The problem is the main farming lobby group, ie the IFA is opposed to environmental regulation (and most other forms of regulation) for the same reasons that IBEC is - they think it's bad for business. But the business interests they represent are big agri-business, not the smaller farmer. And the Greens would find a lot more support among those type of farmers than the likes of the Kerry Group.

I can't tell you how many RISE stickers I see on D reg cars parked outside suburban homes in Dublin. The idea that rural people don't support environmental measures is largely a construct of the people who want this to be the case.

later12

Macha wrote: »

I can't tell you how many RISE stickers I see on D reg cars parked outside suburban homes in Dublin. The idea that rural people don't support environmental measures is largely a construct of the people who want this to be the case.

But I am not saying that urban people do not support green initiatives and sound environmental policy. Of course they do. It is in these urban centres that the Green party find their support. Support from the rural ballot boxes is, at best, scant.

Tell me if you see a trend here.

Carlow-Kilkenny,
Dun Laoghaire,
Dublin Mid West,
Dublin South East,
Dublin South
and Dublin North?

Macha

No arguing with you there. Mary White was the 1st Green TD from a rural constituency.

Liam Byrne

Macha wrote: »

This is not entirely true. The party has a lot of rural supporters.

Well I'm not one of them, given that all they want to do is raid my pocket and they refuse point-blank to offer alternatives.

That and the propping up of FF - as well as their two-faced reversed vote on NAMA - mean that I corrected my mistake from giving them a vote in the past at the last election, and that combined with their bigoted approach ensures that they will never get a vote from me again.

later12

Macha wrote: »

No arguing with you there. Mary White was the 1st Green TD from a rural constituency.

A broadly rural constituency with one city and a reasonably important commuter town - and do you know where her ballots came from?

Macha

later10 wrote: »

A broadly rural constituency with one city and a reasonably important commuter town - and do you know where her ballots came from?

Is that a trick question?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Same here in Mayo. They're detested amongst small farmers.

Macha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Sorry but I don't go by anecdotes no one ever wins that one. I know plenty of farmers who like the Greens and who see themselves as stewards of the land. They know you can't take the environment for granted and keep taking, taking taking. That's something a lot of urban dwellers don't have the first clue about.

flutered

not only do i detest them i actually despise them as well, they propped up f.f. while my country was raped, and believe it or not the smirkers first statement after becoming leader is having a go at the goverment for not continueing with green policies, this people shows what and how they think.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

goat2

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

i am rural, i live in ireland,
the greens are green, and they live on another planet,
i think they said a bus pass every ones doors, well the door i live behind is four miles from nearest bus

Macha

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I was demonstrating the pointlessness of it with that anecdote. You have an anecdote that proves A, I have an anecdote that disproves A.

Well, you totally missed the point I was making.

View

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I doubt that either Donegal constituency would be high on the Green's target list of possible seats. I'd say Labour would be surprised if they won a seat there and they are a considerably bigger party than the Greens.

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I won't argue with people's perception but I doubt that many, if any, of those petty regulations and carbon taxes will be repealed now they are in place. In fact, I'd say we'd almost certainly have had them introduced even if the Greens had spent their time in opposition.

later12

Macha wrote: »

Sorry but I don't go by anecdotes no one ever wins that one.

Apart from the fact that you went on to give an anecdote, that's a welcome approach.

So lets base it on what we do know.

Although she is a Carlow resident, Mary White's support at parliamentary level has traditionally come from a green base in Kilkenny city (one of only three councils where the party still holds a seat) and Carlow town. Furthermore, her transfers are significantly urban related - coming from SF and Labour or candidates with very urban bases.

It is frequently Dubliners mentioning Mary White who forget the significant fact that Kilkenny is a city, Carlow is a significant satellite town (or was in the boom) and is a major reason for the White success.

There is another factor to Mary White's success and that is her personality. She has a great local presence as a businesswoman and was well liked - but tellingly, when she dropped out of the council, her vote was annihilated. The greens went from topping the poll to second last. This suggests that much of the green vote in Borris was actually a Mary White vote, and that there was no fundamental green support.

Even if we were to ignore this, what does the fact that Mary White has been the only non Cork/ Dublin TD in the history of of the Green party tell you?

I like the Green party, and I hope that they will return to the Dail, at least for the sake of challenging and demanding effective environmental legislation if nothing else.

But trying to dress up their support base as rural in any real way is just blatantly false. You are right to ignore the anecdotes, the election data is perfectly clear.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Pride Fighter

Where the recovery will come with the Green Party are quite rural constituencies, so I dont buy that they are a urban party, I'd say the Greens are strongest in Louth, largely rural apart from Drogheda/Dundalk, Dublin North, large swathes are rural, Dublin South, about 70% suburbs 30% rural, Carlow Kilkenny, mostly rural with some medium sized towns.

I think Eamon Ryan's goals are easily achievable apart from an MEP seat. Currently the Green's have 16 council seats, 3 county council seats, 10 town council seats and 3 Northern Irish county council seats. They also have an MLA. I know town council seats are minor, but I'd be sure Eamon Ryan is including them. So all the Greens have to do is make 4 gains in 3 years time for his leadership to be dubbed a success. I'd say Seargeant and Ryan would be odds on to claim council seats and added with a surprise here or there 20 is achievable.

I wish the Greens well, the electorate should have returned 20 green TD's not 20 FF crooks. Although I disagreed with a lot of what the Irish Green Party did, we need them, and need them badly, not the same old cronies from FF and FG.

Macha

later10 wrote: »

Apart from the fact that you went on to give an anecdote, that's a welcome approach.

*sigh*, I explained above that I used the anecdote to demonstrate the pointlessness of anecdotes in making a point.

Do you really think my intellect is so poor that I would contradict myself in the same post?

Sponge Bob

The same Rural Ireland who had to listen to years of waffle by Ryan on Broadband only to get 3rd world satellite instead of broadband in the end.

Rural Ireland is not yet aware that Ryan allowed RTE to abandon around 120 television transmitters next year meaning they cannot pick up terrestrial tv any more. In the southern two thirds of the country you can either pick up Digital TV today or you will never be able to get it...except from his old favourite, the satellite.

The Ryan who went to meet the community in Bellinaboy and promised them a bicycle lane around Glengad and the bay...and never even delivered that much.

As for urban areas, all Ryan did was build bicycle lanes and 24 hour bus lanes with no buses in them 95% of the time.

He will finish off the greens as a political for good, thank God.

later12

Macha wrote: »

*sigh*, I explained above that I used the anecdote to demonstrate the pointlessness of anecdotes in making a point.

Do you really think my intellect is so poor that I would contradict myself in the same post?

Straightforward answer is I don't know, I'm not familiar with you. But maybe you would address the point with facts, what factual evidence are you using for suggesting that the party has a lot of rural supporters?

Since you later criticised anecdotal evidence, I presume this was not based on anecdotal evidence.

johnnyskeleton

It was very important that they be seen to make a break from the past and elect a new leader that has no association with the last government. Instead we have probably the most visible Green member of the last government taking over the reigns.

I think that the Fis Nua / Patricia McKenna type of green party has a chance to emerge now and fill the gap. The current Green party has no future that I can see.

johnnyskeleton

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Oh no, that honor belongs solely to the PDs! The Greens may not have helped with the ending, they are due blame in that.

But the bubble was inflated by FF while the PDs were keeping them in power, 2000 to 2004 was when our income as opposed to transactional tax take was cut while public expenditure went through the roof and property tax incentives were supported while capital gains tax was halved. This is when FF were at their most destructive.

I like the way history has absolved the PDs for their part in that, but will not absolve the Greens. Perhaps it is the difference between not disrepecting the dead.

In any event, the PDs are just as culpable than FF because they were hypocrits who said they stood for one thing but then did another. They ballooned public spending in particular the HSE, they spearheaded extreme anti-immigrant policies and they were just as happy, if not more happy, to engage in parish pump politics and let their mercs and perks build up. Des O'Mally came from FF and brought with him all the ideals of that party.

It truly astonishes me that people believe the PDs were actually a modern liberal party and that their only fault was to go into power with FF. At best, they took credit for some of the good decisions implemented by other parties and claimed them as their own e.g. low corporation tax.

Het-Field

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I like the way history has absolved the PDs for their part in that, but will not absolve the Greens. Perhaps it is the difference between not disrepecting the dead.

In any event, the PDs are just as culpable than FF because they were hypocrits who said they stood for one thing but then did another. They ballooned public spending in particular the HSE, they spearheaded extreme anti-immigrant policies and they were just as happy, if not more happy, to engage in parish pump politics and let their mercs and perks build up. Des O'Mally came from FF and brought with him all the ideals of that party.

It truly astonishes me that people believe the PDs were actually a modern liberal party and that their only fault was to go into power with FF. At best, they took credit for some of the good decisions implemented by other parties and claimed them as their own e.g. low corporation tax.

1) The PDs, while complicit in the establishment of the Health Services Executive, were not ministerially responsible for its establishment. Michael Martin was the Minister in charge at the time of the amalagamation of the Health Boards. History was revised in an attempt to heap more blame at the door of Mary Harney.

2) "Spearheaded anti immigrant policies" ? What policies did they proffer which were anti-immigrant ? If you are talking about the 2004 referendum, then I suggest you consider the context of the referendum in the light of the definition of citizenship enshrined in 1998, and the Lobe v Osyande decision of 2003. I cannot imagine how anybody could consider the 2004 referendum "racist".

FWIW, I dont believe a new leader will be enough to revive the Green Party's fortunes. There is a lot more to a party than a leader. Where is the funding going to come from ? How will they operate without any state funding ? Why would private donors invest money in an entity which will wield no executive power for the lifetime of this Government, and enjoys a Workers Party size mandate on the County Councils ? Are they currently employing full time staff ? Has there been a major drop-off in the involvement of interested members ?

They need more than a change of leader.

beeftotheheels

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I like the way history has absolved the PDs for their part in that, but will not absolve the Greens. Perhaps it is the difference between not disrepecting the dead.

I think a lot of people in this country really blame the whole thing on the bank guarantee and think that had we not given that then everything would be okay, in part because to acknowledge that the additional wealth they saw in the years post 2000 was part of the problem, and that every man woman and child of us benefited to a greater or lesser degree from the bubble.

I mean by 2007 the writing was on the wall internationally, Bertie's shenanigans were in the public domain and yet FF were still returned to power albeit with a different coalition partner.

But I'm sure I will be shot down for this in jig time.

MadsL

http://www.shelltosea.com/content/hysterical-attitudes-reflect-unresolved-relationship-power

Double standards like this are not forgotten.

The Greens had their opportunity to 'cross the floor' and choked in the face of standing up for some integrity in politics. Dierdre de Burca threw herself on her sword to try and get them to see that, but the party leaders (and Ryan) were too blinded by their supposed 'power' to see it.

I hope Green politics is not dead, but the Green Party needs radical change. Ryan is not the man to do it.