Poor 1MB DSL vs Satellite ?

long_b

Have a "just about" DSL connection that's syncs at anything from 300 to 700 kbps
Would people stick with this or go for Tooway satellite?
Had a guy around yesterday from a fixed wireless provider (fecking trees ) - he reckons satellite only gets about 1.5 Mbps usually?

Sponge Bob

bad as that is it probably beats peak hours satellite. How far are you from the exchange, those metrics indicate 4 miles or so.

lucernarian

Are the trees a problem that can be dealt with using a chainsaw? It's an awful shame to miss out on proper fixed wireless broadband for the sake of a few branches;)

If your line is struggling to meet 1 mbps, you should get in touch with eircom or especially a linesman working in the area or someone you know who works in eircom and get a filtered master socket fitted. They're called NTE5 sockets in the UK and can help connection speeds in marginal conditions.

Satellite has big issues with usage limits. There'll be little room for even regular youtube viewing when there is a limit of 4GB/month or less on many of the affordable subscriptions...

long_b

Sponge Bob wrote: »

bad as that is it probably beats peak hours satellite. How far are you from the exchange, those metrics indicate 4 miles or so.

3.1 miles by road to the Exchange

Unfortunately the trees aren't on my property - they'd be long gone otherwise
The rolling caps on the satellite are off putting alright.

galait

Sorry Just hijacking this thread ,

I have had a trouble free 1 Mb DSL connection for 2 yrs , I Live 2.6 miles from the exchange in a rural area ,

Since last weekend my Broadband has becom progressively slower , To-day it is only syncing at 160kb , I have changed DSL Modem/Router , Cable , Splitter etc and no change ,

Vodafone logged a call with Eircom who say everything checks out ,

I cant survive with basically an ISDN connection ,

Any advice on how to proceed

lucernarian

If they say everything checks out, complain again and say your speed's been restricted to 160 kbps and it's unacceptable. If Vodafone still don't do anything, complain officially and tell ComReg that eircom are apparently unwilling to fix your line on behalf of Vodafone.

Can you give the DSL line statistics from the modem please?

Sponge Bob

160k is eircom test mode, tell them to take you out of test mode for starters.

Sponge Bob

Plenty get 2mbits at 3.1 miles line length, especially if it is overhead line. Things to do at home are disconnect everything like a sky box and dect phone( turn that off ) and even turn off wireless for a while and use network cable only and any video senders/security cameras.

Do any of these make a difference ??

long_b

We don't have anything plugged in (phones etc) but there's an extra ringer somewhere in the attic .. Would that be worth chasing up ?
From looking at the stats I know one of the figures is 63 db on the download but much less on the upload - is that normal ?

lucernarian

The attenuation value being reported by the modem is maxed out at 63.5dB. I expect the modem is reporting upstream attenuation as 31.5dB which is also the maximum the modem will report for upstream.

That extra ringer in the attic must plug into the line somewhere. Anywhere there's a possible joint or connection once the line enters the house should be looked at. What you want is an unbroken single cable coming from the outside probably along with a junction box where the outside wiring meets an ordinary internal phone wire. There should only be one wire going from this junction box to the main socket, normally in the hallway. Anything else can cause problems. If you have disconnected everything beyond the main socket (like any extension sockets connected to the main socket) then eircom need to send out a linesman to check what's happening with the line.


Could you post the rest of the DSL statistics from the modem? I.e. the signal margin numbers? There is something wrong with the line beyond the 160k mode, assuming it is indeed set by eircom in troubleshoot mode and not coincidentally the rate that the modem can work at with this line fault.

long_b

Here she is

Line Mode G.DMT Line State Show Time
Latency Type Interleave Line Up Time 00:04:24:23
Line Coding Trellis On Line Up Count 2

Statistics Downstream Upstream
Line Rate 768 Kbps 128 Kbps
Noise Margin 7.1 dB 18.0 dB
Line Attenuation 63.5 dB 31.5 dB
Output Power 15.5 dBm 6.0 dBm

Thanks you guys !

lucernarian

Yeah I was thinking eircom haven't actually switched on that 160kbps mode yet.

It's as simple as this, there is a fault affecting this line and if Vodafone don't insist that eircom do something about it then I would be off to ComReg about this issue.

long_b

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking eircom haven't actually switched on that 160kbps mode yet.

It's as simple as this, there is a fault affecting this line and if Vodafone don't insist that eircom do something about it then I would be off to ComReg about this issue.

I reckon the thread jumper has confused things ... I'm the OP with the 0.5 Mb, he/she's the Vodafone customer with the 130 kpbs

lucernarian

long_b wrote: »

I reckon the thread jumper has confused things ... I'm the OP with the 0.5 Mb, he/she's the Vodafone customer with the 130 kpbs

Indeed I am confusing the two of ye! Apologies. But my troubleshooting steps still apply:D

You should report a fault with the line and see what can be done with improving the line. Those filtered master sockets can help quite a lot. The extra ringer in the attic won't be helping the signal and if it was disconnected from where it meets the line, it would be better. It's eircom's responsibility to maintain the line as far as the master socket anyway.

My folks' line is 4 miles long and still gets a solid 1 mbps. I got a filtered socket off a linesman and that did improve the signal margin by a couple of dB but the line is more than able to handle the 1 mbit anyway. Eircom and the resellers refuse to provide 2 mbps on it.

Sponge Bob

The internal wiring should be in series not in parallel. Each socket should lead to the next, they should not branch off in parallel to each other.

What you do first is ensure a direct cable from the outside to the first socket which should be the eircom one and with no branching off before then. If necessary disconnect all internal wiring from that first socket and revisit that later.

Plug modem straight into that with NO filters and see if the DB levels drop off the ceilings of 63 down and 31 up.

Specs and diagrams here

http://www.reci.ie/Portals/0/RECIDocuments/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf

Remember that eircom must provide a working line to this single point at their socket , the external wiring terminates IN this box. The internal wiring starting from here is your problem. Filtered master sockets are new.

Crackling, echos and funny noises on the line are an eircom problem and should be reported and repaired.

lucernarian

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The internal wiring should be in series not in parallel. Each socket should lead to the next, they should not branch off in parallel to each other.

What you do first is ensure a direct cable from the outside to the first socket which should be the eircom one and with no branching off before then. If necessary disconnect all internal wiring from that first socket and revisit that later.

Plug modem straight into that with NO filters and see if the DB levels drop off the ceilings of 63 down and 31 up.

Specs and diagrams here

http://www.reci.ie/Portals/0/RECIDocuments/technicalinfo/eircominterface.pdf

Remember that eircom must provide a working line to this single point at their socket , the external wiring terminates IN this box. The internal wiring starting from here is your problem. Filtered master sockets are new.

Crackling, echos and funny noises on the line are an eircom problem and should be reported and repaired.

SB has put it much better than myself. Making sure there are no extension wires or branches off to ringers etc before the main socket is crucial in all of this. Junctions are the plague on good, reliable internal wiring.

Sponge Bob

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Junctions are the plague on good, reliable internal wiring.

Exactly, and junctions at a distance from the exchange an even greater plague...and a spider nesting in a junction box is a curse

bigpaddy2004

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Exactly, and junctions at a distance from the exchange an even greater plague...and a spider nesting in a junction box is a curse

Tooway Satellite are about to bump up their speeds up to 10Mb in the coming weeks with larger caps.

roast

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

Tooway Satellite are about to bump up their speeds up to 10Mb in the coming weeks with larger caps.

Good to know. Shame the latency will still be lacking.

long_b

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

Tooway Satellite are about to bump up their speeds up to 10Mb in the coming weeks with larger caps.

Hmmm interesting ... Any details on the caps ?

roast

long_b wrote: »

Hmmm interesting ... Any details on the caps ?

Tooway don't specify - its all down to an FUP, which they don't give details for (at least, publicly, its not on the website FAQ).
If its exceeded, then you're throttled.

long_b

roast wrote: »

Tooway don't specify - its all down to an FUP, which they don't give details for (at least, publicly, its not on the website FAQ).
If its exceeded, then you're throttled.

And how bad is the throttled speed ?
Hate to have it cut out in the middle of a working day

roast

long_b wrote: »

And how bad is the throttled speed ?
Hate to have it cut out in the middle of a working day

Not sure! It doesn't seem to be specified on their website either.
I doubt they would cut the connection completely, I reckon they would just throttle the sh!t out of it.

long_b

roast wrote: »

Not sure! It doesn't seem to be specified on their website either.
I doubt they would cut the connection completely, I reckon they would just throttle the sh!t out of it.

Jaysus - here are the usage limits from a UK site
http://www.bentley-walker.com/tooway/pop_tooway5.html

roast

long_b wrote: »

Jaysus - here are the usage limits from a UK site
http://www.bentley-walker.com/tooway/pop_tooway5.html

ugh.....

Sponge Bob

bigpaddy2004 wrote: »

Tooway Satellite are about to bump up their speeds up to 10Mb in the coming weeks with larger caps.

Only off the Ka Sat Paddy and for NEW customers or realigned ones. They have no transponder space elsewhere...eg 23E

And they will still have hourly / daily / weekly step throttles that their greaseball cnut resellers in Ireland often fail to disclose.

long_b

I have to run the cable from the master socket and about 15 feet to the Dsl router - should I be using a specific type of cable? ATM I'm just using a generic cheap telephone extension cord

roast

long_b wrote: »

I have to run the cable from the master socket and about 15 feet to the Dsl router - should I be using a specific type of cable? ATM I'm just using a generic cheap telephone extension cord

An El Cheapo cable could possibly cause some issues.
The shorter the cable, the better, to reduce interference.

Do you have a spare, short cable that you can test with?

burrentech

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Are the trees a problem that can be dealt with using a chainsaw? It's an awful shame to miss out on proper fixed wireless broadband for the sake of a few branches;)

If your line is struggling to meet 1 mbps, you should get in touch with eircom or especially a linesman working in the area or someone you know who works in eircom and get a filtered master socket fitted. They're called NTE5 sockets in the UK and can help connection speeds in marginal conditions.

Satellite has big issues with usage limits. There'll be little room for even regular youtube viewing when there is a limit of 4GB/month or less on many of the affordable subscriptions...

You can buy these at B&Q, they come with two sockets, one for the DSL, and one for the phone. The only downside is that the phone socket is the UK format, so renders the phone socket unusable, unless you can make up a special adapter yourself. All I did was add another standard Irish socket next to it to handle the phone connection.

All the socket does is remove the need for the plug in filter that comes with your 'free' DSL modem.

long_b

Unfortunately there's no power where the master socket is and with kids I can't leave the router defenseless in the hall. I have another long lead I can try.

I was going to get this - would that be sturdier than a telephone cable ?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/broadband-adsl-modem-cable-36282

I may have a look in B&Q but Argos and Maplins are closer.

burrentech

long_b wrote: »

Unfortunately there's no power where the master socket is and with kids I can't leave the router defenseless in the hall. I have another long lead I can try.

I was going to get this - would that be sturdier than a telephone cable ?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/broadband-adsl-modem-cable-36282

I may have a look in B&Q but Argos and Maplins are closer.

LOL, Maplin also do the Master Filtered socket, and will probably about the same price as B&Q's one. That's not a bad price for the cable.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

lucernarian

burrentech wrote: »

You can buy these at B&Q, they come with two sockets, one for the DSL, and one for the phone. The only downside is that the phone socket is the UK format, so renders the phone socket unusable, unless you can make up a special adapter yourself. All I did was add another standard Irish socket next to it to handle the phone connection.

All the socket does is remove the need for the plug in filter that comes with your 'free' DSL modem.

The second point is incorrect. Also, the sockets eircom and eircom phonewatch use have two RJ11 ports as normally used in Ireland, no adapter needed.

The socket allows for alarms to be filtered along with the various phones and faxes in use. The alarm must be wired permanently to the line so it's not as easy as just sticking a filter to the alarm line though there are guides on the net to do that. Those workarounds could invalidate your home insurance if the insurer found out however.

In this case, the socket with built in filter also filters almost all the internal wiring in the house along with the phone. Using just microfilters means that the wires to the extension sockets themselves can interfere with the DSL modem even if it's plugged into its own socket. The filter gives guaranteed separation from all the rest of the house wiring which can and does pick up all sorts of interference.

OP, using a better cable to the socket will give a very slight improvement and may not even be noticed at all. The instability in your connection unfortunately would need more drastic work than that. Getting an eircom linesman to take a look at what's going on could give some real dividends and he might be able to alter the wiring so that the socket with your modem would be the main filtered socket and all the other sockets could then be isolated. Or else a problem lies outside the house and he'd be equipped to solve that too.

DSL can give you predictable and cheap broadband in a way that Satellite can't. As Ka-Sat gets taken up by more companies, satellite internet costs will drop. If you don't want to go down the route of logging a fault and have eircom investigate then I'd wait for one of the improved satellite offerings to reach the market.

long_b

Condi wrote: »

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A wonder line ! I've asked UTV in the past should I try going to 3 MB but they always advised against it. Inspired by your example I might just plough on and get them to upgrade me
Here's tonight's pingtest

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We're one of only two houses down the lane that can get DSL at all. The other house shows as marginal on line checkers too. Looks like the oldest two houses got the best lines - the poles around here are covered in splitter boxes

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I'd be using Citrix over the web to remote desktop to my work PC.
Would it be a case of type ... pause .. type .. pause ?

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Just metres outside it - I'm on the list for the Rural Broadband Scheme though.

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

Getting an eircom linesman to take a look at what's going on could give some real dividends and he might be able to alter the wiring so that the socket with your modem would be the main filtered socket and all the other sockets could then be isolated. Or else a problem lies outside the house and he'd be equipped to solve that too.

UTV have identified a likely external fault so Eircom engineer on the way.
ATM I've got no dial tone from the main socket but it's syncing at 864

If you don't want to go down the route of logging a fault and have eircom investigate then I'd wait for one of the improved satellite offerings to reach the market.

Can I ask the Eircom guy to check it all the way to the exchange ? In the past they've just shrugged and said I was lucky to be on DSL at all at this distance.

lucernarian

When the eircom linesman comes around and gives you any guff, just say that your relation in Co. XYZ has a 4 mile long line and it gets the full 1 meg (I'm using that connection right now so it's certainly possible!) and why is your line different etc. Even offer him a few extra quid for his troubles if you want, it may embarass him into doing it or else he'll take it and check the whole line to the exchange!


When were you going to mention you've no dial tone at the main socket?! That's a massive indication of a big fault on your line:D Don't bother with any cables from maplin until this fella looks at the line. Let us know how it goes!

long_b

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

When the eircom linesman comes around and gives you any guff, just say that your relation in Co. XYZ has a 4 mile long line and it gets the full 1 meg (I'm using that connection right now so it's certainly possible!) and why is your line different etc. Even offer him a few extra quid for his troubles if you want, it may embarass him into doing it or else he'll take it and check the whole line to the exchange!


When were you going to mention you've no dial tone at the main socket?! That's a massive indication of a big fault on your line:D Don't bother with any cables from maplin until this fella looks at the line. Let us know how it goes!

We don't use a landline at all - only bought a handset today to appease UTV.
Plugged it in to the master, got a dial tone for a second but then just a very faint buzzing noise.

long_b

Eircom must have fixed the line as the dial tone is back, no discernable buzzing on the line now either.

VERY frustrating 5 minutes on the phone with a different UTV rep that went something like this

I'm not getting the same speeds I used to on my line
Your line is non-standard and too far from the exchange, you can only get the speed you're currently getting
No, I know I've been getting better sync rates than this ...
Your line is non-standard and too far from the exchange, the condition of your line is not good.
That's what I'm saying, the condition of my line has deteriorated
Your line is non-standard and too far from the exchange, you can only get the speed you're currently getting

No joy basically, will try different cables over the next couple of nights.

Is there any point in me asking them to move me to 3 Mb as a test ?

lucernarian

Has there been any improvement in speeds after they fixed the dialtone?

long_b

After about 20 resets I got it to sync at 906
This AM pulling down fairly constant 800, up 100. ping 150-200
Got to be happy with that !
Might as well try the bump to 3Mb, just fir curiosity

lucernarian

They won't give it to you, I forgot to mention. If they say your line is marginal then eircom wholesale themselves won't let any line speed beyond 1 mbps on it. I have banged my head off a brick wall with them about this and I've used lines that were in much better shape than yours!

Seeing as your line won't get the full 1 mbps, you should make a complaint with UTV. If they ignore it or do not give you a complaint reference number (or even if they do) then go on to ComReg and say that they are completely unwilling to do anything to improve your internet connection's stability and will not investigate if there is another reason other than line length for the poor speeds. "Amber lines" as eircom originally called them are no excuse for unstable connections or allowing faults on the line and UTV should know this.

It can take a few phone calls etc but phone companies often are motivated to work better if ComReg do investage. Fingers crossed!

long_b

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

They won't give it to you[\QUOTE]
Nuts

Seeing as your line won't get the full 1 mbps

Not far off this morning ...

you should make a complaint with UTV.

The (very unhelpful) guy yesterday was adamant - they wouldn't do any further investigation. Asked him to get the line checked back to the exchange but he said whatever the Eircom guy did yesterday pretty much covers them.

I'd need more ammunition before I'd do a complaint - will definitely monitor my speeds over the next while.

Thanks very much for all of your help peeps.

bob11

The new Tooway Ka-Sat speeds and caps via digiweb :

http://www.digiweb.ie/home/tooway/packages/index.php

Be online with Digiweb Tooway within 10 days

Download Speed 6Mbps 8Mbps 10Mbps 10Mbps
Upload Speed 1Mbps 2Mbps 2Mbps 4Mbps
4 Weekly Data Included 4GB 8GB 13GB 25GB
Hardware & Installation €249 €249 €249 €249
Price per month €39.95 €59.95 €79.95 €129.95
First 3 Month Price Offer
24 Month Contract Term Appli €19.95 €29.95 €39.95 €64.95

.

long_b

bob11 wrote: »

The new Tooway Ka-Sat speeds and caps via digiweb :

http://www.digiweb.ie/home/tooway/packages/index.php

Be online with Digiweb Tooway within 10 days

Download Speed 6Mbps 8Mbps 10Mbps 10Mbps
Upload Speed 1Mbps 2Mbps 2Mbps 4Mbps
4 Weekly Data Included 4GB 8GB 13GB 25GB
Hardware & Installation €249 €249 €249 €249
Price per month €39.95 €59.95 €79.95 €129.95
First 3 Month Price Offer
24 Month Contract Term Appli €19.95 €29.95 €39.95 €64.95

.

Thanks bob11 - I see they've dropped their installation fee a lot but made up for it by the 24 month contract !!

Hopefully this type package will be available from the RBS next year ?

Here's them rolling caps

Per Hour Per 4 hour Per Week Per 4 Week
Value6 500MB 1GB 2GB 4GB
Plus8 1GB 2GB 4GB 8GB
Extra10 1.5GB 3GB 6GB 13GB
Pro10+ 3GB 4GB 12GB 25GB



Traffic used in access of above will result in system being temporarily slowed until usage comes back in line with agreed fair access policy.

50% Traffic Discount


As traditionally the satellite network is less busy during night time hours, overnight usage volumes are discounted by 50% during Off Peak hours to reward use of the satellite network at times of traditional low usage.
Off Peak Hours are currently defined as between the hours of 10pm to 6am GMT / UT.

In my mind these caps with that great speed would be like having a Ferrari with only a fiver's worth of petrol in it ?

lucernarian

Seeing as their customer care *won't* do anything, you'll have to put up with 906 kbps until the next disconnection. It would nearly be better for you if you let the modem work at a lower speed as if you leave the modem running at 906, they will see a line that usually gets nearly 1 mbps whereas if you let it connect at say only 512 kbps then they may be more obliged to do something. Also the ComReg route is one that has given results on several occasions for other posters here.

Another thing you could do is to move to eircom and eircom support seem to take a more sympathetic approach to DSL speed issues. But then you'll have to go through the same troubleshooting etc.

Perhaps the best way to do something is to find the eircom linesmen who work in your area, they often can be seen at the exchange. Talk to them and they may well help or do a little work here and there or at least suggest what the exact issue is. They're usually nicer and friendlier than your average customer support agent. Mention that you had a line fault recently and they may know if that had any bearing on broadband usage. Around here, I know someone who just asked an eircom man working down the road from him to get his line working for broadband and he just came up to his house and uninstalled the pairgain there, no questions asked! This was near the Collon exchange in Co. Louth.

long_b

Right so ... after extensive testing I've found that Meteor are the best of a bad bunch in my area. Getting 1 to 4 Mb down by standing on one leg with my arm out the window (almost).
Going to get the landline out - unless there's some kind of mad ADSL super ++ that will allow me to get great download speeds on a "marginal" line ?