RISE nominated fror PR award

TippFan77

I see RISE has been nominated for major PR award. Those who disapprove of hunting are objecting as indicated by the following item:

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99880

homerhop

indymedia.....says it all really

ghostmantra

ICABS has suggested that RISE could be replaced on the shortlist with the successful, positive, public relations campaigns by animal welfare groups which were instrumental in securing a historic ban on carted deer hunting.
i found that paragraph very entertaining:rolleyes:

doctor evil

Some antis are just unreal!

What award ceremony is this

Grizzly 45

ghostmantra wrote: »

ICABS has suggested that RISE could be replaced on the shortlist with the successful, positive, public relations campaigns by animal welfare groups which were instrumental in securing a historic ban on carted deer hunting.
i found that paragraph very entertaining:rolleyes:

Pettiness from a petty little group thats on the back foot and knows it !:rolleyes:

Sparks

True....
...of course, on the other hand, as we've said here many times before, they succeed in getting all that PR space because shooters don't get off their hind legs and write in to newspapers, while the ICABS nutters write all the time. When the editor finds he has white space that needs filling, their stuff is there and ours isn't. Which is a major reason why we've always had such problems with the PTB and licencing issues.

Grizzly 45

For pig iron...I'd love to see if anyone here can write a reply on Indymedia refuting their anti arguement that stays up longer than 24 hours!!:rolleyes:
Tried twice,and it was taken down...
I would also belive that certain papers also have a anti fieldsports policy in their editorial and letters pages.There always seems to be a larger anti side than pro side.Even when two or mor pro write in,only one gets published,and if it is anti two or more gets published..

Sparks

Grizzly, when 10,000 people write letters to your newspaper, they get published. Policy doesn't outweigh Advertising. So saying there's an anti-shooting bias is a cop-out; the problem is that we don't write in in the kind of numbers ICABS do. They have maybe 20 members; we have 200,000 or so.
Kindof speaks for itself, that...

Dusty87

Sparks wrote: »

Grizzly, when 10,000 people write letters to your newspaper, they get published. Policy doesn't outweigh Advertising. So saying there's an anti-shooting bias is a cop-out; the problem is that we don't write in in the kind of numbers ICABS do. They have maybe 20 members; we have 200,000 or so.
Kindof speaks for itself, that...

in simpler terms, when ten anti's write in, to one hunter, the newspaper will publish what they think the majority wants to read. Its like the article on cricket when they were doing well, there was pages and pages, and one slating that 'minority sports' like shooting got more funding.

round tower huntsman

Sparks wrote: »

True....
...of course, on the other hand, as we've said here many times before, they succeed in getting all that PR space because shooters don't get off their hind legs and write in to newspapers, while the ICABS nutters write all the time. When the editor finds he has white space that needs filling, their stuff is there and ours isn't. Which is a major reason why we've always had such problems with the PTB and licencing issues.

a friend was talking to a fg politician recently. he told him that since the new government was formed he has been inundated with emails from antis,inc graphic pics etc....., he said he didnt get one from any pro hunting people or assoc's.
tbh i've written loads of letter to media, only an odd got through. the letters from callan co kilkenny get through all the time.....must have better email service in callan:rolleyes:

Sparks

Yup, that's exactly what I mean. We've had threads on here asking which way the new Minister will lean...
...and meanwhile, they're writing in to him, being seen and being active and when it comes time for him to try to figure out where the larger bloc of votes is when making a policy decision...
...well, we've all seen how that one goes, haven't we?


Maybe we ought to be writing in more often. It's not like emails cost that much money...

Traumadoc

Actually I think they got the message pretty clear last time, it was interesting to see the city based medias incredulity when FG included a promise to overturn the ban on Stag hunting.

Worked very well in Meath.

Also the overturning of the sinn fein proposition to ban hunting was also dropped when they realised the consequences.

Sparks

Traumadoc wrote: »

Actually I think they got the message pretty clear last time

Completely wrong mindset.

Now that they're elected, you don't want them forgetting how large a demographic the shooting community is (well, at least compared to the anti-gun demographic. At 200,000, we're not big enough to go about demanding stuff, but we can at least seem bigger than the 20 people in ICABS...).

It's when we're quiet and hidden away that things like the 2006 Act come up and stomp on our throat, or unscrupulous gits like Deasy, Mitchell and De Burca can try rabble-rousing to ban our sports.

Meanwhile, the PETA-mob are always, always writing in, keeping their PR image alive, and as a result, they get invites to dinners in Leinster house, and nobody asks too many questions about links from them to the Hunt Sabs (if any of our NGBs had a history like that, there would be files sent to the DPP by the Gardai in short order).

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Completely wrong mindset.

It's when we're quiet and hidden away that things like the 2006 Act come up and stomp on our throat, or unscrupulous gits like Deasy, Mitchell and De Burca can try rabble-rousing to ban our sports.

Meanwhile, the PETA-mob are always, always writing in, keeping their PR image alive, and as a result, they get invites to dinners in Leinster house, and nobody asks too many questions about links from them to the Hunt Sabs (if any of our NGBs had a history like that, there would be files sent to the DPP by the Gardai in short order).

OTOH ..there is also OVER stating your demands too! Which is what ICABS did with Gormless.They must have used up a rainforest in letters to him.Every little thing they were "Write a letter to Mr Gormley.." when he was in power.In the end he must have said too "FFS with friends like this!!"As for the radicals..I reckon that is why the GP changed its membership requirements in 09 when the fanatics started to call the shots with the stag hunting ban.
Since the Anti side have lost any sort of political clout in the Dail,they have to work double time so that their shrill bleating is heard or even paid attention to,and they know it!!At the moment everyone is half past give a F**k about foxes and hares and stags and their precived "rights"..We are more concerned about paying a big bill to Europe,keeping a roof over our heads,and feeding ourselves.This kind of rubbish is for well off affluent societies like in the Celtic Tiger,when we could afford organic veggies in D4 or fair trade crappy tasting coffee.Anyone trying to push this sort of agenda to the fore in a Depression is going to look like they have no grip on reality whatsoever.

I once had a discussion with one of the ICABS crowd at their stall in Limerick in the early 1990s.He had an intresting complaint that the PRO side were getting more letters into the papers than the antis!!!How were we doing this??In the days before the interweb it was as I told him stamps,pen and ink and send it to the editor as they did..They wouldnt/could not belive it ...So maybe they have the same trouble as we have??

As well as that it looks as predictable ranting.."Ah its just John Fitzgerald sounding off again about foxhunting"[although he has branched out abit into social commentary on the current events:rolleyes:.]
So when one of our letters does get thru,it actually looks good and well thought out answer to a particular accusation.They have managed to get a few others of their 20 people to publish letters in the national press too.

Thats not to say,that we should rest on our laurels either...But dont over do it either for every last little thing either..

As for media bias..I remember Sparks when you suggested to the Irish Times when they were looking for minority sports coverage,you laudably suggested shooting..What were the comments about it from the IT??"we wont cover murderers " or somthing to that effect?? I also know that the Boul Bernie Wright's husband works[ed] in the Indo too in somthing on editorial staff...
Fair and open media??????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

OTOH ..there is also OVER stating your demands too!

Indeed. And in about ten thousand letters, we might be reaching that point...

Anyone trying to push this sort of agenda to the fore in a Depression is going to look like they have no grip on reality whatsoever.

Indeed. On the other hand, anyone pushing a guns-means-crime agenda, as Deasy and Mitchell and De Burca did, won't look like that because we're so absent from the PR scene.

Thats not to say,that we should rest on our laurels either...But dont over do it either for every last little thing either..

I'm not talking about letters demanding things here Grizzly, I'm talking about letters congratulating teams when they win major events, I'm talking about letters with a positive spin to them.

As for media bias..I remember Sparks when you suggested to the Irish Times when they were looking for minority sports coverage,you laudably suggested shooting..What were the comments about it from the IT??"we wont cover murderers " or somthing to that effect??

It was the sports editor, and the comment was "We don't cover guns". And since they never heard from our demographic, they figure "feck it, not worth printing, no ad money in this" except around the Olympic games when they covered Derek Burnett for a while.

Fair and open media??????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Commercial media.
Which means, if one in every 20 shooters wrote in one letter to the times, even one email, we'd get coverage. But, we don't do that, so we get nothing, while the ICABS mob walks away with it for the asking. And then we get hammered by legislation as an easy target, and wind up where we are now.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Indeed. And in about ten thousand letters, we might be reaching that point...

In another parallel universe maybe..:rolleyes:

Indeed. On the other hand, anyone pushing a guns-means-crime agenda, as Deasy and Mitchell and De Burca did, won't look like that because we're so absent from the PR scene.

Yeah,and when we did reply to them,poor old Austin couldnt handle the letters from the nasty shooters and hid under his kitchen table crying for his Mummy and to the media that he was being intimidated and threatened!!And got more publicity from it..Somone should remind him that he isnt above the law either..Like when it says NO SMOKING in a public place that includes the Dail bar!!:) De Burca,well she wasnt even a genuine politican,just a Senator,which are either wannbes,has beens, also rans and Gombeens!And Green as well..Where is she now,not to mind she was as mad as a bag of hammers.:rolleyes:

I'm not talking about letters demanding things here Grizzly, I'm talking about letters congratulating teams when they win major events, I'm talking about letters with a positive spin to them.

Didnt really come across clearly your point on this..If we were comparing like and like,we would have wasted a load of bandwidth and stamps on Aherne.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yeah,and when we did reply to them,poor old Austin couldnt handle the letters from the nasty shooters and hid under his kitchen table crying for his Mummy and to the media that he was being intimidated and threatened!!And got more publicity from it..Somone should remind him that he isnt above the law either..Like when it says NO SMOKING in a public place that includes the Dail bar!!:) De Burca,well she wasnt even a genuine politican,just a Senator,which are either wannbes,has beens, also rans and Gombeens!And Green as well..Where is she now,not to mind she was as mad as a bag of hammers.:rolleyes:

Yes, yes, they're all mad.

Thing is Grizz, I want to shoot, not bitch about things over a pint.

Didnt really come across clearly your point on this..If we were comparing like and like,we would have wasted a load of bandwidth and stamps on Aherne.

Would we? The man didn't care one way or the other about guns, he cared about votes and nothing more. If he'd thought we were a larger demographic, maybe he'd have paused before reacting to Deasy&co.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, yes, they're all mad.

Thing is Grizz, I want to shoot, not bitch about things over a pint.



Would we? The man didn't care one way or the other about guns, he cared about votes and nothing more. If he'd thought we were a larger demographic, maybe he'd have paused before reacting to Deasy&co.

So do I Sparks,but what I am saying is;do we have to waste time and resources replying to people who should be in a funny farm.Or should we be putting in the effort with viable replies and arguements with the people who count?
Personally I dont think Aherne was for changing anyway..He was on a very personal crusade to make Ireland a better place:rolleyes::rolleyes: and gun free,due to somthing in his past re firearms[unconfirmed sofar]and to loot as much taxpayers money in pensions and perks as possible.
Its like arguing with Bin Ladin that actually Obama is quite a nice bloke...

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So do I Sparks,but what I am saying is;do we have to waste time and resources replying to people who should be in a funny farm.Or should we be putting in the effort with viable replies and arguements with the people who count?

No, you're missing the idea completely. You don't reply to people like ICABS, you talk to the vast undecided majority instead.

You don't engage with ICABS or you legitimise them. Instead you write in about your stuff. You never mention ICABS, you only give them free advertising when you do that, and in the same go, you elevate their crackpot whinging from "crackpot looney-tune fringe group whinging" to "stuff that the shooting community takes so seriously that they engage in debate in the national media about".

Instead you write in:

• asking why the ISC isn't funding target shooting more despite our great record in international competition;
• asking why the FCP is being wound down despite a long successful track record in bringing the DoJ, AGS, NGBs and others to the one table;
• talking about the great match you just had this weekend
• encouraging others to try your sport;
• talking about your upcoming club events or the results from when club members win national matches (local papers eat this up);

and in doing so, you raise awareness about our sports without giving the ICABS looneys any traction or advertising.

Personally I dont think Aherne was for changing anyway. He was on a very personal crusade to make Ireland a better place:rolleyes::rolleyes: and gun free

Bullcrap. Specifically, the PR bullcrap that Ahern fed anyone who'd listen. The man cared about votes and nothing more. If he'd been on a personal anti-gun crusade, then banning guns would have been on his campaign promises and part of his programme for government, and he'd have started the axe swinging on day one.

The truth is that he didn't give a fiddler's about guns, at all. It wasn't until Deasy and his ilk thought they could get some PR out of scaremongering that the whole thing kicked off; and we could have stopped that, if we'd been doing what we've been saying we should be doing since 1999 - ie. more PR and more pushing the sport in the media. We didn't and we lost out as a result.

And then to add salt to the wound, when the only branch of our sports that did push the PR boat out were mentioned by the PTB in meetings, we turned on each other in a heartbeat like a true Irish begrudgery stereotype.

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=Sparks;72495911]No, you're missing the idea completely. You don't reply to people like ICABS, you talk to the vast undecided majority instead.

But you have to have a medium to do this first...IE Press &TV..If they aint giving you the colum inches or airtime..You dont engage the majority....Ever wonder why in the US the Right took over the radio waves with talk radio,or the NRA has its own TV channel??
Unless we get somthing like this over here..we might get the odd few inches after the obituaries or in the gutter [Centre left page,closest to the fold.Best place for an article is top right of a page]when we win an Olympic gold.

You don't engage with ICABS or you legitimise them. Instead you write in about your stuff. You never mention ICABS, you only give them free advertising when you do that, and in the same go, you elevate their crackpot whinging from "crackpot looney-tune fringe group whinging" to "stuff that the shooting community takes so seriously that they engage in debate in the national media about".

A Given....However there really some things you cannot just let lie...Remember Tierney comparing a murder over a land dispute to potential gun violence in rural areas,because a gun was used??? Or the other myth that if you were a hunter you were more likely to abuse kiddies and animals???

Instead you write in:

• asking why the ISC isn't funding target shooting more despite our great record in international competition;
• asking why the FCP is being wound down despite a long successful track record in bringing the DoJ, AGS, NGBs and others to the one table;
• talking about the great match you just had this weekend
• encouraging others to try your sport;
• talking about your upcoming club events or the results from when club members win national matches (local papers eat this up)

and in doing so, you raise awareness about our sports without giving the ICABS looneys any traction or advertising.

Sparks,my man..Nobody is disagreeing with you WHAT the content should be of these letters or articles..Our problem is HOW do we get it in the papers or TV consistently???You say,write,write,write.We do[at least I do],and there seem to be others that do as well.So lets take an average of possibly 3replies to one anti letter in a national paper,which would be a possible ratio.If there is unbaisedness in the editorial staff,and it is a average news day there should be at least one counter reply within 24/48 hours so that the right to reply is coverd..How many times do we see that happen here.Or if there is one pro letter,there is a sudden reverse of 4to6 anti refutes within 24 hours!!And at least 3 plus over a 72 hour period...
Logicaly,this means that the unbiasdness and right of reply is not there anymore.
Simply put,if we dont have an level playing field with traditional media access on par with the antis,we can write and burn bandwidth to the media until our fingers are raw.
So INMHO,as print media becomes more valueable and expensive,the online blog and daily updated website will be the future for getting out our message,not just nationwide,but worldwide.What is somone under 21 going to read quicker ?A blog or a newspaper?

Bullcrap. Specifically, the PR bullcrap that Ahern fed anyone who'd listen. The man cared about votes and nothing more. If he'd been on a personal anti-gun crusade, then banning guns would have been on his campaign promises and part of his programme for government, and he'd have started the axe swinging on day one.

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH MAN!!!:mad:I dont know HOW many more times I HAVE to point this out....He stated quite clearly at the GS&I conference in May [appx 2years into the term]..2008 that his intent was to "reduce the numbers of firearms and especially handguns in Ireland within the next few years!"Now,if that isnt clear enough for anyone I dont know what is!!!

I posted that here then and warned that this was coming..And it was pooh poohd as just political rehrotic,and there were more important things like "arse falls out of economy" on that day as somone suggested..Cassandra eat your heart out!!:rolleyes:

Fast forward to Limerick Nov 2008,he cynically used a murder to hang this legislation up in the Dail,and even admitted [after it was discussed here in depth coincidentially] that it wouldnt reduce guncrime,but prevent a "US style gun culture" in Ireland.
It that isnt using like Hitler did,the burning of the Reichstag,to introduce antigun legislation in the forwarding of a personal agenda,I dont know what is..

The truth is that he didn't give a fiddler's about guns, at all. It wasn't until Deasy and his ilk thought they could get some PR out of scaremongering that the whole thing kicked off;

Part of the problem,but NOT the full story..Anyway whats the point of going back into history??It's done we have to live with the mistakes and get on with it..


and we could have stopped that, if we'd been doing what we've been saying we should be doing since 1999 - ie. more PR and more pushing the sport in the media. We didn't and we lost out as a result.

And then to add salt to the wound, when the only branch of our sports that did push the PR boat out were mentioned by the PTB in meetings, we turned on each other in a heartbeat like a true Irish begrudgery stereotype.

Yeah ..whats new..Anyone learn from this???Anything change??:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But you have to have a medium to do this first.

The medium follows the money. They think 200,000 people will buy their paper, you get the medium. They never hear from you, you don't. It's that simple, and it's no secret. ICABS do this, we don't. That's why we are where we are.

Ever wonder why in the US the Right took over the radio waves

Nope. Because it's not a mystery. They took over talk radio because it's incredibly easy to do that when you aim at the lowest common denominator. We can't do that here. The PR line doesn't work - it's too easy for Joe Duffy to say "IRA".

A Given....However there really some things you cannot just let lie

And how exactly would you stop those things?
You have no legal recourse unless they name someone specifically, and we have a long, long history of only pursuing our own through the courts, and never those where there might be some purpose to such a pursuit.

Our problem is HOW do we get it in the papers or TV consistently?

By writing consistently. That's all that ICABS do. There's no great secret or mystery here.

lets take an average of possibly 3replies

Replies are not what we need.
Replies don't, in fact, do us any good.
What's needed are not letters which advertise ICABS and use our names to legitimise them, what's needed are letters which promote us on our issues.

What is somone under 21 going to read quicker ?A blog or a newspaper?

And where are our blogs?
I can count on the fingers of one hand how many blogs are kept even partially up to date by Irish shooters, and still use chopsticks afterwards.

The problem is plain and simple Grizzly. It's not some conspiracy. It's not some professional PR job. It's not in any way complicated.

It's that we simply don't write stuff and send it in consistently.

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH MAN!

And yet...

2years into the term

2 years. Not 2 days.
At a PR event.

I'm telling you, we were not big enough to be a target. Hell, we weren't even the real target when the ban came in, we were just kicked so he could get at Deasy. And if we'd looked after our PR in the decade before that (instead of fighting efforts to promote our sport), we'd have had some chance.

It that isnt using like Hitler did,the burning of the Reichstag,to introduce antigun legislation in the forwarding of a personal agenda,I dont know what is.

Then you don't know what is.

whats the point of going back into history?

Hitler... reichstag?

The point of going back into history is to avoid repeating mistakes.

Yeah ..whats new..Anyone learn from this?

Yes. But not, it seems, the ones who were shouting and banging on tables prior to '04.

pedroeibar1

This is sooooo last year.:rolleyes:
See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055963999&page=4
Sparks response there to my post (#49) at least shows that I was right about RISE, despite what others were saying.:P

P.

Sparks

I think post #53 is a better one from that thread pedro...

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

The medium follows the money. They think 200,000 people will buy their paper, you get the medium. They never hear from you, you don't. It's that simple, and it's no secret. ICABS do this, we don't. That's why we are where we are.

Sparks,Remember the donedeal.ie story???While not a paper per se..It just shows how an anti editorial staff will work .Even if it means a loss of busisness.

Nope. Because it's not a mystery. They took over talk radio because it's incredibly easy to do that when you aim at the lowest common denominator. We can't do that here. The PR line doesn't work - it's too easy for Joe Duffy to say "IRA".

FACEPALM! I was speaking in the US context here!And while the "lowest common denominator" over there is over 250 million people with appx 800 million guns.They also realised that the established media would never give them a fair hearing.
Joe Fluffy wouldnt rate as janitor never mind shock jock over there.Even on a mainstream station.Point is;we diont get acess,we dont count...No matter if you write a million letters a day to them.

And how exactly would you stop those things?
You have no legal recourse unless they name someone specifically, and we have a long, long history of only pursuing our own through the courts, and never those where there might be some purpose to such a pursuit.

You cant and dont,you reply to them..

By writing consistently. That's all that ICABS do. There's no great secret or mystery here.

And have sympathetic editorial staff to your cause...END OF!

Replies are not what we need.
Replies don't, in fact, do us any good.
What's needed are not letters which advertise ICABS and use our names to legitimise them, what's needed are letters which promote us on our issues.

And where are our blogs?
I can count on the fingers of one hand how many blogs are kept even partially up to date by Irish shooters, and still use chopsticks afterwards

Exactly..WHERE are they!!!. More importantly WHY arent they there??

The problem is plain and simple Grizzly. It's not some conspiracy. It's not some professional PR job. It's not in any way complicated.

Said the man who bemoans the fact many times that the Irish shooting bodies should have and dont have professional PR workers!:)

It's that we simply don't write stuff and send it in consistently.

TBH, I think people do write,but get discouraged when it is not printed and/or it is dumped because of just bad writing or spelling or grammer.Alot of people can express themselves well in words and bad on paper and vice versa.It's why ICABS have their sample letters,so that an illiterate 10 year old can copy it and sign it.Maybe we should do the same??

And yet...

2 years. Not 2 days

.
UH huh..and what was he doing for the two years previously??Waiting for the CJB to work its way slowly thru to a point he could add on a few bits and then blame it on Mc Dowell,and he looked the golden boy.Remember he made the comments in Ma08... Deasy & Co started theirs Oct 08!!
Ban comes in in Nov!!

At a PR event.

So the ASSoc of Garda Sgts and Inspectors AGM is a PR event???BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Thats honestly a good one Sparks!!!

I'm telling you, we were not big enough to be a target. Hell, we weren't even the real target when the ban came in, we were just kicked so he could get at Deasy.

See above time frame..:) He outlines what he will do in May,Deasy sounds off in Oct,ban in Nov..
Of course we were a handy target..It happens every day in life the bigger pick on the smaller,and they thought because of justifiable infighting and general chaotic organisations we would be a pushover,and roll over.

And if we'd looked after our PR in the decade before that (instead of fighting efforts to promote our sport), we'd have had some chance

.

Again history...Are we doing it more importantly NOW??

Then you don't know what is.

None so blind as will not see!

Hitler... reichstag?

Touche! But I couldnt think of a more up todate example of using a crisis to bring in oppressive legislation at 0230:D

The point of going back into history is to avoid repeating mistakes.

Very true,but then again us Irish are very big on history,and ignoring the present and future threats..As you say yourself ..how far back do we have to go??

Yes. But not, it seems, the ones who were shouting and banging on tables prior to '04.

So yesterdays men are still leading???Not much changed then,or was learned was it??

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sparks,Remember the donedeal.ie story?

Yes. They're not a paper, they're going to lose a lot of business if they're boycotted (and they're not being boycotted, don't forget because we keeps seeing ads for firearms and gundogs there), and they'll turn on a dime when they can see and realise that. Or they'll go under. Either way, crying about how their political or other leanings is a complete waste of our time, we'd be far better off actually doing something quietly and just getting on with it.

They also realised that the established media would never give them a fair hearing.

Oh please. Fox is the single largest network there, and it's completely right-wing, to a ridiculous degree.

Joe Fluffy wouldnt rate as janitor never mind shock jock over there.

But here, he and Hook and Tubridy are the largest (by listeners) radio names around.
And it's far far easier for them to say "IRA" or "criminals" and get more listeners than to be on our side. And since they don't care either way, but just talk to whatever line gives them more listeners (hell, they'll argue both sides of any point on the same show if it keeps the outrage levels up and the phones calls coming in and the ad revenue flowing), they cease to become an editorial-based channel and become a revenue-driven channel.

Which has the advantage that it's not some secret handshake to get on the show; it's just plain numbers. And we've enough to do that, if we'd just do more PR, more consistently.

You cant and dont,you reply to them..

And the moment you do, you legitimise them. It goes from "crackpot whinging" to "they're replying to them, so they're taking them seriously, and there's no smoke without fire!"

And have sympathetic editorial staff to your cause...END OF!

If that was what it took, we'd never get any press. Instead, we do; we just get the amount that you'd expect for a demographic that never bothers to ask for more.

Exactly..WHERE are they!!!. More importantly WHY arent they there??

BECAUSE WE'RE NOT WRITING THEM.
FFS.
You saw this yourself Grizzly, after the hatchet job that Prime Time did on shooters. Everyone outraged, and yet less than a dozen ever put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard. Instead, 2% did some work, and 98% bitched and moaned (and ironically, wrote more on here by an order of magnitude than was ever sent into any media source).
But you've also seen what happens when shooters do work - remember the licence fee hike from a while back? Then the 98% did something; and next thing you know, we've gotten one of the very very few rollbacks that that government gave out.

Said the man who bemoans the fact many times that the Irish shooting bodies should have and dont have professional PR workers!:)

I do so because they should have and they don't. But the NGB's aren't the ones who have to write to the papers and the politicians - that's down to the shooters. The NGBs can do the detail work afterwards, when the decision to do something is made; but the push, the motive, the projected payoff for the media/politicians in papers sold/votes obtained, that has to come from the shooters. NGBs can't do it effectively. NARGC walks in, says "we represent 30,000 people who'll all vote for you if you back us", and the person on the far side of the desk thinks "if you had that many, I'd be buried in emails and letters and phone calls by now -- therefore, you're bull****ting me and I'm not bothered".

Maybe we should do the same??

Go for it.
Seriously.
Start a thread, post some content, urge folks to print and post. Consider that a mod's blessing if it's of any use to you.

UH huh..and what was he doing for the two years previously?

Nothing. Never even met the firearms side from what I understand of things. He hadn't any interest in it. Far more concerned with looking bad because of the rising crime levels.

So the ASSoc of Garda Sgts and Inspectors AGM is a PR event?

Yup. Always has been. Hence the non-invites and well-circulated-but-never-read speeches; because the press pays attention when the Minister and the Gardai are at loggerheads, and the Commissioner's not free to be at loggerheads with the Minister, but the AGSI isn't so tightly bound by that (they're still bound in theory, but they've more leeway in practice, and the press thinks this is great craic).

See above time frame..:) He outlines what he will do in May,Deasy sounds off in Oct,ban in Nov..

No, he makes a PR statement in May, Deasy sees an opportunity when gun crime levels rise and starts rattling about later that year, and eventually gets enough media attention that Ahern steps on it in November.

The whole thing was PR from start to finish. Had nothing to do with actual crime-fighting, nothing to do with personal ideologies (at least not in the Dail - the AGS are another matter) or personal crusades. They just didn't care enough about us for that.

Again history...Are we doing it more importantly NOW??

Some of us are. Some of us aren't.

Those who aren't, are going to rue that fact, sooner or later (and for some, it's going to be much sooner, I strongly suspect).

Touche! But I couldnt think of a more up todate example of using a crisis to bring in oppressive legislation at 0230:D

But you see my point about history there, right?

Very true,but then again us Irish are very big on history,and ignoring the present and future threats..As you say yourself ..how far back do we have to go??

Right now, I'd say our present and future threats are highly similar to our recent historical threats. And by highly similar, I pretty much mean "exactly the same".

So yesterdays men are still leading???Not much changed then,or was learned was it??

Depends on what section you look at. Some troublemakers have been sidelined and are basicly gone. Others take their places, but the situation today is far better than it was ten years ago (and you need to be comparing with the situation that far back because as far as the PTB are concerned, 2004-2011 hasn't been seven years, it's been three Acts, three and a half Ministers, and a few court cases - a very short timespan indeed in their frame of reference.

Hell, ten years ago, do you think half the strokes attempted would have stayed secret for a week had this place been around?

pedroeibar1

Sparks wrote: »

I think post #53 is a better one from that thread pedro...

That choice is open to you, Sparks, but it is not the point I was making, which was that RISE had done a very effective job in the teeth of huge opposition. Yes, they did not win, but they got people talking, got people motivated and certainly filled many column inches and TV hours. They have laid a very good foundation.
Factually, despite all those who had hissyfits over my comments last year, the Press Cuttings page is bereft of pro -gunowner comment/activity. There is the Lazy Dog article in May. Before that there were two mentions/quotes from Des Crofton since the New Year. We now are FIVE months into 2011. And in fairness to Grizz, he is one who consistently draws attention to media coverage (even if I don’t always agree with what he says:p:D )
Rs
P.

Grizzly 45

And writing on a PROactive side..Nice one from Sparks in todays IT.;)

Go for it.
Seriously.
Start a thread, post some content, urge folks to print and post. Consider that a mod's blessing if it's of any use to you.




Madam, – How can we justify spending €2.5 million on what amounts to a fancy hanging baskets for some potted plants – which frankly does little for Irish tourism but large amounts for the Chelsea Flower Show – while at the same time failing to pass on any funding to sports events like the upcoming Creedmoor match?
In contrast, it will be the highlight of the shooting year and will bring in tourism from the US, UK, and further afield, and which, unlike the hanging gardens of Ballincollig, can become a recurring, regular event? – Yours, etc,
MARK DENNEHY.

Thats one letter...ASPU mine didnt make it,never get anything published anyway by the IT...:rolleyes:..Any other attempts by anyone??

Sparks

Well, if the cat's out of the bag...

Letter-writing experiment.

(66% success rate on the nationals on day one Grizz - the Indo is the only one that didn't carry the letter. Think that proves that this can work)

Might be more in the Saturday editions.

Grizzly 45

Reckon it's a 4day cycle.I wrote one on a different subject from shooting on Tuseday,so unless it makes Saturdays'..It's a dead letter.

Sparks

Longest I've ever seen between submission and publication is about four days alright Grizz. No reason you can't resubmit though, I've seen that work before...

TippFan77

Sparks wrote: »

True....
...of course, on the other hand, as we've said here many times before, they succeed in getting all that PR space because shooters don't get off their hind legs and write in to newspapers, while the ICABS nutters write all the time. When the editor finds he has white space that needs filling, their stuff is there and ours isn't. Which is a major reason why we've always had such problems with the PTB and licencing issues.

I don't think it works quite that way Sparks. Editors will publish what the deem the best or most relevant letters, from either pro or anti fieldsports.

Yes, there may be a bit of what you describe: including a particular letter just to fill up space, but generally the well-written ones get in. A lot of the NARGC ones are good, but you have to give credit to "antis" for letter-wrting prowess too!