Expectations for next season

CIARAN_BOYLE

I was just thinking about expectations for the 2011/2012 seasons I typed up some thoughts for each of the provinces and for Ireland




Ulster
Ulster had a good season this year and it will be a big ask to repeat it. Jared Payne and John Afoa are the big name signings for Ulster next season while Botha is the big loss. I think a goal for Ulster next season is to get back to the semi-finals of the Magners League and either reach the Quarter Final of the HEC or the Final of ACC.

The second goal would be to give solid time to Craig Gilroy, Connor Gaston, Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson, and Paddy McAllister.

Danielli is going into the last season of his contract Gilroy should be ready to come in as a starter for all the big games once Danielli is gone. He needs a lot of game time next season.

Hopefully Spence will continue his perform from this season and not suffer second season syndrome.

Likely first XV
1 Court, 2 Best, 3Afoa, 4 Mueller, 5 Tuohy, 6 Ferris, 7 Faloon, 8 Wannenberg, 9 Pienaar, 10 Humphries, 11 Trimble, 12 Wallace, 13 Spence, 14 Danielli, 15 Payne

Munster
Munster had a poor season by their own standards. They are losing a lot players and have only announced two players coming in. Botha's arrival should hopefully shore up the scrum.

If Players like POC and Flanerry can be fit for the season Munster will be hoping to have a big season on the pitch, Munster have to push for a return to HEC knock out rugby and push for the Pro12 or whatever the eventual name for the league will be.

Munsters biggest goal for next season should be to give experience to Sherry, Archer, Nagle, Foley, POM, Butler, TOD, DOCv2.0 Murray, Barnes, and Zebo. Hopefully the new strength and conditioning coach will help some of the forwards who are currently a bit too light. Some of those players need to make a breakthrough to the point where they are starting in the big games in the next season. Especially one of the backrowers. Wallace isn't as young as he was, and Coghlan isn't good enough to be #8 for a top HEC team, the backrow needs rejuventing with one of the young talents breaking through.
Munster could still do with signing a centre before next season comes around.

Likely first XV
1 DuPreez, 2 Flannery, 3 Botha, 4 POC, 5 DOC, 6 Leamy, 7 Wallace, 8 Coghlan, 9 Murray, 10 ROG, 11 Earls, 12 Mafi, 13 Barnes, 14 Howlett, 15 Jones

Connacht
Connacht clawed themselves up the Magners League table this season bringing themselves to finish 9th. Connacht face a big season next year with their HEC debut. I would be satisfied if Connacht can repeat their performance of this season in the Magners.

Connacht are guaranteed facing one of Toulouse, Clermont, or Biarritz next season by the way the pools fall. I'd hope Connacht would be able to put up temporary stands for their home matches and draw a crowd of 9,000 for their three home matches. If Connacht can pull off a win in one of their three home matches before a 9,000 corwd it would be a great thing and lure a lot of the fans who show into coming back more regularly.

If Connacht can win the loyalty of just 1,000 of these occasionals, or non rugby supporters who come in for a big game then they will be in a much better position in terms of their support base.

Finaly with at least 12 new players coming in, although I would expect a few more still to come (especially a centre) I believe the most important thing Eric Elwood can do is make Connacht play as a team.

Likely first XV
1 Wilkinson, 2 Reynecke, 3 Ah You, 4 McCarthy, 5 Browne, 6 Muldoon, 7 O'Connor, 8 Naoupu, 9 O'Donohue, 10 Nikora, 11 Vainikolo, 12 Griffin, 13 Loxton 14 McCrea, 15 Duffy

Leinster
As we approach the end of a sublime season for Leinster we have to wonder what the goal Joe Schmidt will be chasing next season. Obviously Leinster have to chase a HEC and Pro12 double. Leinster is likely to supply a large chunk of Ireland world cup squad with Joe certain to miss at least 12 players at the start of next season. This could rise to 15 or 16 if Kidney makes a couple of surprising calls.
Hines departure leaves a hole in the Leinster pack. It will be a big question to see how well Sykes can fill it, and how long it takes him to bed in to Leinster. One must remember that Strauss did not wow many people during his first season with Leinster
A major goal would be to give experience in a Leinster shirt to players like McGrath, Ruddock, Ryan, Cooney, Madigan, McKinley, D Kearney and Conway. Madigan and McKinley may be facing a situation where one of them is the future number two for Leinster while the other lives on scraps as a third choice, neither will want to face that position. Will anyone new break into the senior squad from the academy?
One thing to wonder about the Leinster squad is the huge depth, will players like Carr, R Kearney, D Kearney, and Conway be content not being first choices next season. Same with Ruddock, D Ryan, and other young options in the backrow.
Is it time for McFadden to force himself into the first team ahead of D’arcy, should he not go to the world cup and perform well for Leinster we could be facing that situation for next season.
Likely first XV
1 Healy, 2 Strauss, 3 Ross, 4 Cullen, 5 Sykes, 6 O’Brien, 7 Jennings, 8 Heaslip, 9 Redden, 10 Sexton, 11 Fitzgerald, 12 McFadden, 13 O’Driscoll, 14 Horgan, 15 Nacewa

Ireland
The big one in a world cup year is of course the national team.
(if fit and the management are convinced they are training well)
Props: Ross, Healy, Court(One or Two more, Buckley is likely to be included). Hookers: Flannery, Best, Cronin (Varley on standby if Flannery is not fit) Locks: POC, DOC, Cullen. Back Row: SOB, Heaslip, Ferris, Wallace, Leamy (Donnacha Ryan or McLaughlin as a back row/lock, and Jennings is also possible)
Scrum-Halfs: Redden, TOL (one of Murray, Boss, Stringer). Out-Halfs: Sexton, O’Gara. Centre: D’arcy, O’Driscoll, Wallace (he covers OH and a third cover there is needed). Back-Three: Earls, Bowe, Trimble, Kearney (one from McFadden, Jones, Horgan, Murphy and Fitzgerald)
The minimum goal in the World Cup is of course to qualify from the group and reach the knock-out stages. A failure to qualify would see Kidney losing his job with Ireland. Success in reaching the quarter-finals would be a minimum showing for a decent world cup.
Going on the win the quarter-final would turn the world cup into a success. Even if Ireland was to then go on and lose the semi-final and the third place play-off it would still be a successful world cup. Needless to say to reach that high goal would require beating either South Africa or Australia at some stage in the competition which is a big ask.

Likely first XV at the RWC
1 Healy, 2 Best, 3 Ross, 4 DOC, 5 POC, 6 SOB, 7 Wallace, 8 Heaslip, 9 Redden, 10 Sexton, 11 Earls, 12 D'arcy, 13 O'Driscoll, 14 Bowe, 15 Kearney

jolley123

Good thread and pretty spot on in terms of expectations etc.

MY thoughts on the Ulster starting team next year.

1.McAllister 2.Best 3.Afoa 4.Mueller 5.Tuohy 6.Ferris 7.Faloon 8.Wannenburg 9.Piennar 10.Humphreys. 11.Trimble. 12.Spence 13.Payne 14.Gilroy 15.D'arcy

I think Payne's most lethal at outside centre and Spence has shown that he's just as effective at inside centre. If I had to choose between Wallace or A.D'arcy to drop, I'd drop Wallace, and I suspect McLaughlin would be of the same mind-set.

I also put Gilroy ahead of Danielli as I feel Gilroy will be taking that jersey next year. He played a huge amount of games this season and with Daniellie possibly going to the WC, he should be getting more.
'
I've also been impressed with McAllister when I've seen him. He's more explosive in the loose than Court and showed himself well in the scrums when given the chance.

irishbucsfan

jolley123 wrote: »

Good thread and pretty spot on in terms of expectations etc.

MY thoughts on the Ulster starting team next year.

1.McAllister 2.Best 3.Afoa 4.Mueller 5.Tuohy 6.Ferris 7.Faloon 8.Wannenburg 9.Piennar 10.Humphreys. 11.Trimble. 12.Spence 13.Payne 14.Gilroy 15.D'arcy

I think Payne's most lethal at outside centre and Spence has shown that he's just as effective at inside centre. If I had to choose between Wallace or A.D'arcy to drop, I'd drop Wallace, and I suspect McLaughlin would be of the same mind-set.

I also put Gilroy ahead of Danielli as I feel Gilroy will be taking that jersey next year. He played a huge amount of games this season and with Daniellie possibly going to the WC, he should be getting more.
'
I've also been impressed with McAllister when I've seen him. He's more explosive in the loose than Court and showed himself well in the scrums when given the chance.

Personally don't think Spence will be moved to 12 with Marshall coming through. Doesn't make sense to crowd him out like that. Payne has been brought in as a 15 from what I've been told.

I think Marshall will play more in the ML next year but Wallace is still one of Ulster's most talented backs. I think Ulster will start the season as

Court, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Ferris, Falloon, Wannenberg;
Pienaar, Humphries, Trimble, Wallace, Spence, Gilroy, Payne

And then if they're lucky, by the end of the year they'll be comfortable starting with:

McAllister, Best, Afoa, Muller, Tuohy, Ferris, Falloon, Wannenberg;
Pienaar, Jackson, Trimble, Marshall, Spence, Gilroy, Payne

The future is bright in Ulster if the cards fall in their favour.

jolley123

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Payne has been brought in as a 15 from what I've been told.

Shame if that's true. Any time he's played 15 for the Blues this year, his talents have been wasted. He less of a counter-attacker and more of an intelligent creator who runs great support lines

Still, I guess developing guys like Marshall is more important.

Disagree with you on Wallace. Pretty anonymous this season, he's an intelligent rugby player and that shows with his ability to play out-half, but I don't rate the guy in terms of HC or international standard. I would have Whitten ahead of him. But that's just my personal opinion.

Quint2010

Just on one thing-Shane Jennings must go to the WC after his second half display on saturday. And I would seriously be trying to get Stephen Ferris game time in the second row as if he gets fit he is too valuable a player to leave out

irishbucsfan

I have this weird masochistic wild side that hopes Leinster get the toughest group possible in next year's H Cup....

Something like:

Leinster, Clermont, Toulon, Harlequins

And then a Quarter against someone like Leicester again and then, the ultimate, an AWAY semi to Toulouse. And then of course a final against Munster.

I'm just a rebel though. I play by noones rules but my own.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

Just on one thing-Shane Jennings must go to the WC after his second half display on saturday. And I would seriously be trying to get Stephen Ferris game time in the second row as if he gets fit he is too valuable a player to leave out

Given the state of Ferris's knee I would not see him ever playing in the second row. The regular jumping that that is required in the second row would be murder on his knees that have had problems for years. A lot of the cartilidge in one his knees is worn away from regular knees

irishbucsfan wrote:

Leinster, Clermont, Toulon, Harlequins

Not possible, Toulon didn't qualify and there will only be one French team per group, also if Leinster gets Clermont they are guaranteed an Italian team

I think the hardest group would be

Leinster Leicster Glouster Racing

Quint2010

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Given the state of Ferris's knee I would not see him ever playing in the second row. The regular jumping that that is required in the second row would be murder on his knees that have had problems for years. A lot of the cartilidge in one his knees is worn away from regular knees

He doesnt have to be a jumper does he? I didnt see Hines win much ball on saturday and I did see SOB.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

He doesnt have to be a jumper does he? I didnt see Hines win much ball on saturday and I did see SOB.

true but I always feel that lineout work is necessary for a lock, like people insist that a hooker throw in in the lineout or an outhalf kicks for the posts. I suppose its just a tradition and he could do a job there.

pappyodaniel

Who's this new guy Sykes?

jolley123

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Who's this new guy Sykes?

Steven Sykes, second-row from Natal Sharks.

CIARAN_BOYLE

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Who's this new guy Sykes?

Sharks starting lock, played every Super rugby match for them this year and last year, can also play 6 and is very similar to Hines in ways. Pretty much a direct replacement for Hines

He signed a three year contract with Leinster and has could become Irish eligible

ambid

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Sharks starting lock, played every Super rugby match for them this year and last year, can also play 6 and is very similar to Hines in ways. Pretty much a direct replacement for Hines

He signed a three year contract with Leinster and has could become Irish eligible

Jeez very forward looking thread!

Has Sykes been called into South Africa squads? I know he hasn't played, but I assume he could be called up for the World Cup?

profitius

I'm glad Munster have only signed 2 players so far. This might rise to 3 or 4 but it's still less than the number leaving.

Theres alot to look forward to next season from a Munster point of view. I think the team will be alot stronger than it has been this season.

The front row will be stronger. Besides Botha coming and Flannery coming back there are some AIL props coming in who are decent prospects. Sherry has also proven that he could be a very good hooker.

The second row will be the same. I'd like to see Nagle put on some weight over the summer.

The backrow will also be better if the right players are selected. TOD, Butler and POM need to be introduced with maybe Dave O'Callaghan too. POM especially needs to be played more and bulk up during the summer.

The halfbacks will be stronger. Murray should now be first choice and he's the best 9 Munster have. ROG is still going strong and Keatley will offer something different at 10. Playing with Munster could improve Keatley too. If he improves like Warwick improved coming from Connacht he'll be a fine player.

At center we'll see improvements next season. There'll be changes with only Mafi surviving from this season. Danny Barnes has now proved he's capable of playing there and he'll get better with more games. A center will also be signed, hopefully a quality one. Also, I'd like to see JJ Hanrahan given some more games. He looks a real quality prospect.

The back 3 is looking healthy. Jones has given Munster an extra dimension and if he can stay fit for the season it'll be a big improvement on last season. Add in Zebo, Earls and Howlett and its clear that Munster have a dangerous backline. More depth is needed though.

Another positive is Axel. Anthony Foley will get Munsters forwards back firing on all cylinders again and hopefully influence the general style of Munster play. If so things will really be looking up.

Risteard

From a Munster perspective I'D be disappointed if at the end of our HC campaign, wherever that may be, that we'll still be relying on Coughlan/Leamy and Wallace especially as our 1st choice BR. Our back row needs new blood and it's one of the areas where we're producing players hopefully POM and Butler can push on along with TOD being given more opportunities. Plenty of room due to the WC.

Would also like to see Nagle push on from this season and challenge for a H spot. Put in some great performances this year but maybe lacking a small bit of power.

Interesting to see the new strength and conditioning coach and what effect he might
have.

Also read elsewhere that Munster are targeting Toeava. Haven't been watching the Super 15 much this season but he's supposed to be playing well by all accounts and is still young.

Overall, I don't expect us to go out and win the HC next year, but I hope we can continue our ML form and hopefully show some improvement in overall play and bringing through players.

profitius

I think that Irish rugby in general will also continue to rise.

The main provinces will be as strong or stronger and Connacht will be in the HEC for the first time which will hopefully attract some new fans and create a buzz out west.

A good world cup for Ireland will be massive for the game too. The good thing is we're well capable of beating Australia. The Aussies are a youngish side who blow hot and cold while Ireland have bags more experience.

Ireland also have a winning mentality now. A genuine winning mentality. Ireland went into the last world cup having won very little. Munster won a HEC the year before and Ulster in 99 along with a few ML titles. This year Munster are going into this world cup with a team who are used to winning and playing on big stages. Also, love him or loath him, Declan Kidney is a winner too having been successful wherever he has been. Leinsters comeback at the weekend was more evidence of the belief Irish players have.

Quint2010

profitius wrote: »

I'm glad Munster have only signed 2 players so far. This might rise to 3 or 4 but it's still less than the number leaving.

Theres alot to look forward to next season from a Munster point of view. I think the team will be alot stronger than it has been this season.

The front row will be stronger. Besides Botha coming and Flannery coming back there are some AIL props coming in who are decent prospects. Sherry has also proven that he could be a very good hooker.

The second row will be the same. I'd like to see Nagle put on some weight over the summer.

The backrow will also be better if the right players are selected. TOD, Butler and POM need to be introduced with maybe Dave O'Callaghan too. POM especially needs to be played more and bulk up during the summer.

The halfbacks will be stronger. Murray should now be first choice and he's the best 9 Munster have. ROG is still going strong and Keatley will offer something different at 10. Playing with Munster could improve Keatley too. If he improves like Warwick improved coming from Connacht he'll be a fine player.

At center we'll see improvements next season. There'll be changes with only Mafi surviving from this season. Danny Barnes has now proved he's capable of playing there and he'll get better with more games. A center will also be signed, hopefully a quality one. Also, I'd like to see JJ Hanrahan given some more games. He looks a real quality prospect.

The back 3 is looking healthy. Jones has given Munster an extra dimension and if he can stay fit for the season it'll be a big improvement on last season. Add in Zebo, Earls and Howlett and its clear that Munster have a dangerous backline. More depth is needed though.

Another positive is Axel. Anthony Foley will get Munsters forwards back firing on all cylinders again and hopefully influence the general style of Munster play. If so things will really be looking up.

I expect a very strong challenge from Munster next season. With Leinsters dominance this season, there is nothing stronger than a wounded Munster with a chip on its shoulder

profitius

I think Connacht are hard to call. They're losing their best players but at the same time they'll have a bigger squad with greater strength in depth which will help them as the season starts to take its toll on players.

The world cup offers them a good opportunity to start with a bang and if they take it and confidence rises it could be a good season.

Also the players they're getting are young and will improve like Carr, Hagan, Cronin and Keatley did. So if next season is hard to call you'd expect a gradual improvement in the coming years.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I play by noones rules but my own.

Including the ERC's I see.


Next season - sure the same again couldn't hurt.

andrewdcs

Just checking, but we only get the extra team if one of them wins a comp right?
We don't lose it on averages, just by not winning the place next year.
ACC or HEC, so some squad (poss Ulster given seedings) getting a tough HEC draw, getting an ACC berth and going on to win, or another epic victory is required.

Ireland should be aiming (as I'd imagine they are) at semi final. We have no reason to doubt that we can't beat any NH and many SH teams, given the day, so quarter would be decent, not getting out of the group (with respect to Italy) would be a disaster of 2007 levels. IFRU kiss of death would be to offer Kidney a 4 year extension just before the world cup, whatever lunatic negotiated that last time around.

pajunior

andrewdcs wrote: »

Just checking, but we only get the extra team if one of them wins a comp right?
We don't lose it on averages, just by not winning the place next year.
ACC or HEC, so some squad (poss Ulster given seedings) getting a tough HEC draw, getting an ACC berth and going on to win, or another epic victory is required.

Ireland should be aiming (as I'd imagine they are) at semi final. We have no reason to doubt that we can't beat any NH and many SH teams, given the day, so quarter would be decent, not getting out of the group (with respect to Italy) would be a disaster of 2007 levels. IFRU kiss of death would be to offer Kidney a 4 year extension just before the world cup, whatever lunatic negotiated that last time around.

Yeah I think a quarter would be a very average WC. We have two cracks at SH teams in Australia and SA. There is no reason why we can't beat one of these. Yes on paper they are very good but so are we.

Teferi

For Ireland - we might have finally gotten the trick of peaking at the right time. With the Magners and Heineken in Ireland we should be aiming to get to the semi-final for a good WC but there is no reason they cannot go the whole way.

GerM

Teferi wrote: »

For Ireland - we might have finally gotten the trick of peaking at the right time. With the Magners and Heineken in Ireland we should be aiming to get to the semi-final for a good WC but there is no reason they cannot go the whole way.

Unless we sharpen up significantly in the tactics and game management department we're not going to go very far. The Heineken Cup and the England game shouldn't cover up the fact that we were very poor against Italy, Scotland and Wales and our discipline and tactics were shocking.

Teferi

Blame it on the coach

You could argue that Ireland learned their mistakes from those games and that is why they played so well against England.

Burgo

Teferi wrote: »

Blame it on the coach

You could argue that Ireland learned their mistakes from those games and that is why they played so well against England.

I hope you're right mate ! I suppose we'll find out if they have learned during the friendlies.

CatFromHue

GerM wrote: »

Unless we sharpen up significantly in the tactics and game management department we're not going to go very far. The Heineken Cup and the England game shouldn't cover up the fact that we were very poor against Italy, Scotland and Wales and our discipline and tactics were shocking.

against italy we should have been home and dry except our centres were doing their best to not score tries.

againts scotland we were well up on the score board but let them back into it through silly penalty's.

against wales if it wasnt for "that" try we would have won.

i think the players and management will have learned alot from the 6 nations.

taking the glass half full view of the tournament we were a missed tackle by one of out best defenders and a major mistake by a touchjudge away from a grand slam.

Jedwardian

With another game to go this season, perhaps it's too early to be looking ahead to my expectations for Leinster next season but here goes anyway.

Win or lose on Saturday, it will be extremely difficult for Leinster to repeat their achievements of this season in 2011/12. Rather that look at winning trophies, more player development is what I'd expect from Leinster next season.

This season we saw Fergus McFadden, Dominic Ryan, Rhys Ruddock, Eoin O'Malley and to a lesser extent Dave Kearney and Ian Madigan take a big step forward. The first four on that list can all step up in a major game and you wouldn't fear for them in the slightest. In 2011/12 I'd like to see Kearney and Madigan further improve and Jack McGrath, Ben Marshall, John Cooney, Ian McKinley, Brendan Macken and Andrew Conway make a step up to being important Magners League players.

GerM

I am playing devil's advocate somewhat, admittedly. However, if we go into a game against Australia with anything but getting it perfect, we'll be punished sorely.

We were a bad call away from beating Wales but that shouldn't disguise that we played a terrible game tactically. We kicked away vast amounts of possession and, when it didn't work, we kicked some more. Their back 3 had a field day gathering our kicks. We played ourselves out of the match. Our discipline against both Scotland and France was truly awful. Our error count against Italy was massive.

I just hope the coaches are aware of these issues and go about rectifying them whether it be studying the other teams and sending the players out with the right tactics or preparing them mentally to keep their discipline and composure. We have the talent as we've shown but it needs to all come together on and off the field on the day.

profitius

At least there are plenty of matches before the Australian match for Ireland to gel as a team. The England match will be great for confidence as will Leinster winning the HEC.

Podge_irl

Jedwardian wrote: »

Win or lose on Saturday, it will be extremely difficult for Leinster to repeat their achievements of this season in 2011/12. Rather that look at winning trophies, more player development is what I'd expect from Leinster next season.

Leinster managed plenty of player development while winning trophies this season. I expect them to be challenging quite strongly to retain the HEC next season. They're going to start as favourites.

irishbucsfan

Any predictions for players who will burst onto the scene next year?

I'd be interested to see if Conway can start to put his hand up more for Leinster. I think next year will also decide between Madigan and McKinley.

Jack McGrath looks set to be involved a little more, and I think the team will test him to see if they can let VDM go and have an all Irish Qualified front row group in 2013 (Healy, McGrath, Strauss, Cronin, Hagan, Ross) which would free up a NIQ spot.

North of the border I'd love to see Jackson/McKinney and Marshall playing for Ulster next year as well as Gilroy starting as much as possible. A backline of Pienaar, Jackson, Trimble, Marshall, Spence, Gilroy, Payne has huge potential. Also would love to see Paddy McAllister pushing for a 2012 6N squad place.

At Munster I'd love to see them throw the form book out the window and write off next season in the name of development. Highly doubt whether it will happen though. O'Mahoney/O'Donnell/Butler would be an interesting back row combination to watch and all are talented young players in positions with ageing starters. Nagle HAS to play next year. I'd also like to see Declan Cusack given a bit more time to see if he's up to it.

Conacht is impossible to predict!

Jedwardian

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leinster managed plenty of player development while winning trophies this season. I expect them to be challenging quite strongly to retain the HEC next season. They're going to start as favourites.

As do I but I won't view it as a failure if they don't retain the Heineken Cup and possibly the Magners League once other goals are met.

pajunior

Jedwardian wrote: »

As do I but I won't view it as a failure if they don't retain the Heineken Cup and possibly the Magners League once other goals are met.

Yeah it's a stange one, you always want a team to improve one year to the next but for Leinster that may be impossible next year, at least in terms of results.

There will be 10 or so teams aiming to win the HC next year and only one of them can. Same with the Magners league four or five teams are going to be disappointed at not winning the league.

Winning is of course the #1 aim but if that doesn't work out it is always good to say that you developed as a team and are a stronger team in May then you were in September

justsomebloke

pajunior wrote: »

Same with the Magners league four or five teams are going to be disappointed at not winning the league.

I really can't see it being anyone's bar Munster's or Leinster's next year, the Ospreys would of been the only other team capable of winning it but with them losing all their players I can't see them doing it next year. Ulster I can see coming 2-3 in the league but I can't see them winning it though

pajunior

Joe the Santa wrote: »

I really can't see it being anyone's bar Munster's or Leinster's next year, the Ospreys would of been the only other team capable of winning it but with them losing all their players I can't see them doing it next year. Ulster I can see coming 2-3 in the league but I can't see them winning it though

I agree but I meant that there will be about 6 teams who will say at least publicly that there aim is to win the league.

profitius

I'm not sure what to make of the McKinley/Madigan situation. McKinley looks a good prospect and so does Madigan but they've gone and signed Berquist from NZ too. Thats 4 possible 10's. They'll keep them all but at the end of next season I can see one of McKinley or Madigan leaving, if Berquist is still there.


Some player changes..

McFadden ahead of D'Arcy,
Murray to be ahead of TOL permanently and start some games for Ireland,
Jones to become Irelands first choice fullback,
Sexton to be Irelands first choice 10 permanently
Bull Hayes to retire and Jamie Hagan to get some Ireland caps,
Mike Sherry to be ahead of Varley and push for an Ireland squad spot,
POM to be a Munster regular,
Strauss will be in the Ireland squad (though I'm against it)
Gilroy to be an Ulster regular,
Luke Marshall and Paddy Jackson to get more games with Ulster.

danthefan

For Leinster, I would like to see us keep going with the great brand of rugby that's been played this season, and continue the great work bringing through younger guys.

In terms of competitions I think ML playoffs and HEC knockout stages is a realistic target, you can take nothing for granted beyond that.


For Ireland, I expect nothing if Kidney stays on after the RWC.

jacothelad

Teferi wrote: »

Blame it on the coach

You could argue that Ireland learned their mistakes from those games and that is why they played so well against England.

CatFromHue wrote: »

against italy we should have been home and dry except our centres were doing their best to not score tries.

againts scotland we were well up on the score board but let them back into it through silly penalty's.

against wales if it wasnt for "that" try we would have won.

i think the players and management will have learned alot from the 6 nations.

taking the glass half full view of the tournament we were a missed tackle by one of out best defenders and a major mistake by a touchjudge away from a grand slam.

I think that's all true. Also, the ref was 'officially' wrong in penalising Ireland against France on at least two occasions from which they scored points. With a bit of luck and some even half awake refereeing when it was most needed, we could have won a jammy Grand Slam

Joe the Santa wrote: »

I really can't see it being anyone's bar Munster's or Leinster's next year, the Ospreys would of been the only other team capable of winning it but with them losing all their players I can't see them doing it next year. Ulster I can see coming 2-3 in the league but I can't see them winning it though

Ulster still don't have the really dynamic firepower in the forwards. In a bizarre move, they have decided not to replace Jeremy Davidson. I don't think that is a good idea. The team has looked as if it is a bit lacking in ideas this season.

As regards next season, if a game was a bit of mudbath armwrestle, they might have a chance but on dry pitches the eight are usually a bit pedestrian - except Ferris and Faloon but Faloon is underpowered. Maybe with Afoa, a fit Tuohy and Ferris things might improve but at the moment the players are worthy but lacking the sheer grunt and devil needed.

pajunior

jacothelad wrote: »

I think that's all true. Also, the ref was 'officially' wrong in penalising Ireland against France on at least two occasions from which they scored points. With a bit of luck and some even half awake refereeing when it was most needed, we could have won a jammy Grand Slam

Yeah I remember think after the England game how cat we were in the previous games, but the fact is we should have won a grand slam without playing much better.

Very strange year for the 6 nations.

smurphy29

profitius wrote: »

Some player changes..

McFadden ahead of D'Arcy,
Murray to be ahead of TOL permanently and start some games for Ireland,
Jones to become Irelands first choice fullback,
Sexton to be Irelands first choice 10 permanently
Bull Hayes to retire and Jamie Hagan to get some Ireland caps,
Mike Sherry to be ahead of Varley and push for an Ireland squad spot,
POM to be a Munster regular,
Strauss will be in the Ireland squad (though I'm against it)
Gilroy to be an Ulster regular,
Luke Marshall and Paddy Jackson to get more games with Ulster.

Some intriguing calls there profitius. Hayes will definitely retire, the rest will be very interesting to see how they pan out. I have particularly high hoes for McFadden and Murray, who have a real chance of becoming international mainstays next year. See you back here in 12 months to see how you got on.

WallyGUFC

Connacht: Win the HC.

wixfjord

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Any predictions for players who will burst onto the scene next year?

I'd be interested to see if Conway can start to put his hand up more for Leinster. I think next year will also decide between Madigan and McKinley.

Jack McGrath looks set to be involved a little more, and I think the team will test him to see if they can let VDM go and have an all Irish Qualified front row group in 2013 (Healy, McGrath, Strauss, Cronin, Hagan, Ross) which would free up a NIQ spot.

North of the border I'd love to see Jackson/McKinney and Marshall playing for Ulster next year as well as Gilroy starting as much as possible. A backline of Pienaar, Jackson, Trimble, Marshall, Spence, Gilroy, Payne has huge potential. Also would love to see Paddy McAllister pushing for a 2012 6N squad place.

At Munster I'd love to see them throw the form book out the window and write off next season in the name of development. Highly doubt whether it will happen though. O'Mahoney/O'Donnell/Butler would be an interesting back row combination to watch and all are talented young players in positions with ageing starters. Nagle HAS to play next year. I'd also like to see Declan Cusack given a bit more time to see if he's up to it.

Conacht is impossible to predict!

Think Gaston and Gilroy will go well next year, along with Jones who will take over as Ireland #1 fullback imo.
Can't see Conway really bursting out yet, but I do think that D Kearney will have a big year.
Would love to see Luke McGrath getting some gametime aswell at some stage.

thomond2006

Hopefully Munster will develop from within next year. Hopefully 2/3 of Sherry, Nagle, TOD, POM, Barnes will be starting in the HEC team.

BoarHunter

I think this Irish team has what it needs to beat a SH team during the world cup. They could be the good susprise of the semi final. They are the best NH bet for this world cup. France are very poor and England are not best English team we have seen. Irelnad will go there with Ambition and hunger. It might be the year to go a step further for the greens.

EDIT : and when it will come to a close call, don't forget the good old Ronan O'Gara

jacothelad

BoarHunter wrote: »

I think this Irish team has what it needs to beat a SH team during the world cup. They could be the good susprise of the semi final. They are the best NH bet for this world cup. France are very poor and England are not best English team we have seen. Irelnad will go there with Ambition and hunger. It might be the year to go a step further for the greens.

EDIT : and when it will come to a close call, don't forget the good old Ronan O'Gara

France have the players to win the RWC. They have a coach with the rugby brains of a dead cockroach.

P_1

Leinster: At the very least getting into the semi of the HEC and getting a home semi in whatever the ML is going to be called next year.

Ireland: Quarter final in the RWC and 4/5 in the 6N.

Connacht: A good draw and showing in the HEC.

anonymous_joe

Leinster;

ML - Finals
HC - Depends on the group obviously. QF would be nice.

theboss80

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2011/0602/heinekencup.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Draw will be made next Tuesday

Clubs and Tiers for 2011/12 Heineken Cup:

Tier 1 - Leinster, Toulouse, Munster, Cardiff Blues, Biarritz Olympique, Leicester Tigers.

Tier 2 - Northampton Saints, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Ospreys, Bath Rugby, Harlequins, London Irish.

Tier 3 - Ulster, Saracens, Gloucester Rugby, Glasgow Warriors, Scarlets, Edinburgh.

Tier 4 - Connacht, Benetton Treviso, Castres Olympique, Montpellier, Racing Metro 92, Aironi.

pajunior

Real shame Ulster couldn't get into Tier 2, there is a convincing argument to say they should be there on merit.

totallegend

Leinster, Bath, Glasgow, Montpelier

would do very nicely (and hope Montpelier concentrate on Top 14)

It's criminal that tier 4 contains three French teams; this means that the only way Leinster or Munster can draw an Italian team is by getting Clermont from tier 2 and either Saracens or Gloucester from tier 3.
No easy draws next year either!

Conversely, Toulouse and Biarritz are guaranteed to get either an Italian club or Connacht. Home QFs for the French lads so...

tolosenc

totallegend wrote: »

Conversely, Toulouse and Biarritz are guaranteed to get either an Italian club or Connacht. Home QFs for the French lads so...

Biarritz lost at home to Aironi this year...