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Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Please Read OP)

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    #9002
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    While it is possible to worship God in the wrong way that is easily rectified by proper cathecesis.



    I'm pre-denominational so Nope!

    But what if Joseph Smith was right and his book of Mormon is what God wants?


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    #9003
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'd like to know why religion is a legitimate reason for segregation of the education system and race isn't. Why does a majority religion get to dominate education but other majority reasons like race aren't a good reason to segregate children?


    That has been answered already...
    tommy2bad wrote: »
    The element of choice! I can not choose my race.

    segregation based on race is racism.

    segregation - not really the correct term in this context - based on religion isn't comparable to racism.


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    #9004
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Why is segregation based on religion acceptable for the provision of a state service like education but race isn't?


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    #9005
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    But what if Joseph Smith was right and his book of Mormon is what God wants?

    what if you are trying to make a point using a speculative fallacy to suggest that a "religion" based on a logical fallacy is true?


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    #9006
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    what if you are trying to make a point using a speculative fallacy to suggest that a "religion" based on a logical fallacy is true?

    What if he was right? What if he has the restored gospel after the great apostasy and God just gets angry when you worship him differently from Mormonism?


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    #9007
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why is segregation based on religion acceptable for the provision of a state service like education but race isn't?

    education is not a state service in ireland.


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    #9008
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    education is not a state service in ireland.

    Does the state not fund, inspect, legislate and set curriculum for education? Should education be a state service? Why isn't it a state service, when the state pays for it?


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    #9009
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Festus wrote: »
    education is not a state service in ireland.

    ...pretty sure there's a department of education, overseen by a government minister, funded by taxes, and all children are required by law to undergo an education.


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    #9010
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    ...pretty sure there's a department of education, overseen by a government minister, funded by taxes, and all children are required by law to undergo an education.

    I think he or she is arguing that because religious orders decades ago set up schools after deciding the state wasn't going to indoctrinate children we owe them. Or something. Even though we pay for the system these days.


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    #9011
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    What if he was right? What if he has the restored gospel after the great apostasy and God just gets angry when you worship him differently from Mormonism?


    He was wrong. But, what if he was right does not change the fact that he was wrong.


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    #9012
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    He was wrong. But, what if he was right does not change the fact that he was wrong.

    How do you know? God revealed himself, the angel moroni showed him the plates, the book of Mormon was written and people worship in Mormon temples. They have a gospel, is that wrong? How come that gospel is wrong?


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    #9013
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    ...pretty sure there's a department of education, overseen by a government minister, funded by taxes, and all children are required by law to undergo an education.

    Correct. The state supports the schools but the state system cannot dictate everything that the schools teach and hence not a state service.


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    #9014
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    How do you know?

    because you said "what if he was right" which implies you believe he was wrong.

    your argument is purely speculative.


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    #9015
    RikuoAmero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭RikuoAmero


    Festus wrote: »
    because you said "what if he was right" which implies you believe he was wrong.

    you argument is purely speculative.

    ...which is what we're supposed to do. I'm pretty sure someone earlier this week complained about me supposedly not even speculating or entertaining the possibility of christianity being true (that person was wrong).
    I speculate on the issue "is christianity true" and think about the myriads of evidence in favour of and against, and make a probability judgement based on what evidence I have.
    Same with mormonism. In that case, I consider the fact that Joseph Smith was a known con-artist, I consider the fact that only he saw the golden plates (if I'm remembering it correctly) (thus meaning they're un-examinable, if they existed). I consider the claim that the Jews were in North America, and the complete lack of archaeological evidence that would support this claim (just like I consider the claim of Moses and the Hebrews in Egypt, and the complete lack of archaeological evidence in support of that claim).


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    #9016
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    because you said "what if he was right" which implies you believe he was wrong.

    your argument is purely speculative.

    So you know for certain that the book of Mormon is false? How come it is false but other gospels are the word of God?


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    #9017
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    Correct. The state supports the schools but the state system cannot dictate everything that the schools teach and hence not a state service.

    Should it be a state service? What makes education different from other state funded services? Should Catholic hospitals treat Catholics first and discriminate in admissions policy based on.the faith of patients?


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    #9018
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    RikuoAmero wrote: »
    ...which is what we're supposed to do. I'm pretty sure someone earlier this week complained about me supposedly not even speculating or entertaining the possibility of christianity being true (that person was wrong).
    I speculate on the issue "is christianity true" and think about the myriads of evidence in favour of and against, and make a probability judgement based on what evidence I have.
    Same with mormonism. In that case, I consider the fact that Joseph Smith was a known con-artist, I consider the fact that only he saw the golden plates (if I'm remembering it correctly) (thus meaning they're un-examinable, if they existed). I consider the claim that the Jews were in North America, and the complete lack of archaeological evidence that would support this claim (just like I consider the claim of Moses and the Hebrews in Egypt, and the complete lack of archaeological evidence in support of that claim).

    What if there really are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old only we can't find them because they live on the other side of the moon, does that not mean lazygal is right and you are wrong?


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    #9019
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    What if there really are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old only we can't find them because they live on the other side of the moon, does that not mean lazygal is right and you are wrong?

    Maybe stick to Joseph Smith. He wrote the restored gospel after an angel revealed gold plates to him. He was by his account a prophet who received a revelation from God. Why is his testimony false.but that written about Jesus true?


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    #9020
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    So you know for certain that the book of Mormon is false? How come it is false but other gospels are the word of God?

    I suggest you read both the Book of Mormon and The Bible and compare them.


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    #9021
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    I suggest you read both the Book of Mormon and The Bible and compare them.

    I have and both are equally unbelievable in their claims. What in.your view makes the book of Mormon a false gospel?


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    #9022
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    Maybe stick to Joseph Smith. He wrote the restored gospel after an angel revealed gold plates to him. He was by his account a prophet who received a revelation from God. Why is his testimony false.but that written about Jesus true?


    I am sticking with Joseph Smith. I was paraphrasing what he said in "The Young Woman's Journal", Vol. 3, pages 263-264.

    I would suggest that he is wrong about the moon and hence any other testimony of his carries a risk.


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    #9023
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    I have and both are equally unbelievable in their claims. What in.your view makes the book of Mormon a false gospel?

    It was written by Joseph Smith.


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    #9024
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    I am sticking with Joseph Smith. I was paraphrasing what he said in "The Young Woman's Journal", Vol. 3, pages 263-264.

    I would suggest that he is wrong about the moon and hence any other testimony of his carries a risk.

    But nothing in the bible is wrong? Like the contradictions in the accounts of the birth of Jesus?


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    #9025
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    It was written by Joseph Smith.

    And.....? He received revelation from god, as do the living prophets of the Mormon church.


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    #9026
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    And.....? He received revelation from god, as do the living prophets of the Mormon church.

    Can you prove that?


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    #9027
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    But nothing in the bible is wrong? Like the contradictions in the accounts of the birth of Jesus?

    You'll need to be more specific


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    #9028
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    Can you prove that?

    He said he did. He wrote the book of Mormon, there's the proof, a gospel.like those in the bible. Mormons believe in living prophets who also receive revelation. Are they wrong?.


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    #9029
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Festus wrote: »
    You'll need to be more specific

    Why? Have you not read the different accounts of the birth of Jesus in the bible? The ones that refer to Jesus being born in different circumstances?


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    #9030
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why? Have you not read the different accounts of the birth of Jesus in the bible? The ones that refer to Jesus being born in different circumstances?

    Each Gospel has a different author so some differences are to be expected however the gospel records of the birth of Christ contain more similarities that differences.

    Can you be more specific


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    #9031
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    lazygal wrote: »
    He said he did. He wrote the book of Mormon, there's the proof, a gospel.like those in the bible. Mormons believe in living prophets who also receive revelation. Are they wrong?.

    How many men are living on the moon according to Smith?


This discussion has been closed.
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