Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Atheism/Existence of God Debates (Please Read OP)

Options
1…102103105107108…327

Comments

  • Options
    #3122
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    You are confused. We are all fundamentally atheists until we are indoctrinated.

    We are born knowing neither God nor morality; both of these have to be taught.

    This is why the church targets young children; they grow up to be conformist adults.

    They have to indoctrinate us as children because otherwise they lose the opportunity to subvert our thinking apparatus.

    Yes, you are more of a dogmatist than a fundamentalist.


  • Options
    #3123
    Andrewf20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    Festus wrote: »
    Does science require faith?

    Well yes as in we "believe" that the laws of physics are a certain standard. Setting them down as dogmatic statements is unwise, however science doesnt claim that if you dont believe in its teachings, that you are damned to hell for eternity like in the bible for example.


  • Options
    #3124
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    You tell me. It's your belief.

    What is and where was I disrespectful?

    I think you should pay attention to the plank in your eye.


  • Options
    #3125
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    Yes, you are more of a dogmatist than a fundamentalist.

    You should look up the word 'dogma'.

    And if the cap fits...


  • Options
    #3126
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,446 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Festus wrote: »
    That's easy, atheism - especially if you are using whatever definitions you want and being makeyuppy etc etc etc.

    I said whatever definitions you want. Feel free to choose any of the definitions. And I'm asking what your opinion is, regardless of whatever I've said my opinions were. I'll simplify the question just in case you want to change your answer based on my response

    Which do you think requires more faith:
    Option A - Not believing in God
    Option B - Believing in God

    Feel free to give the reasons for your answer.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3127
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Festus wrote: »
    So you agree that atheists rely on faith to believe what they believe regarding God.

    No, since I don't agree with your definition of "faith", and I suspect neither do you.

    I have no more faith in atheism than I have faith I'm not going to win the Lotto. I can't prove I'm not going to win the Lotto, but only you seem to be suggesting that therefore believing I won't (given the utterly ridiculous odds that I would) is therefore an act of faith.

    As I asked, faith in what exactly? Faith is an act of trust. Who or what am I trusting in when I believe I won't win the Lotto given the ridiculous odds against winning the Lotto.


  • Options
    #3128
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Festus wrote: »
    Yes you can. All you have to do is ask. If they say "No" all you have to do is present the evidence of your evil deeds. Then they will let you stay.

    Lol, yeah you try that Festus and see how you get on. Turn up to Mountjoy tomorrow and say you want a room for a few weeks... :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #3129
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Penn wrote: »
    I said whatever definitions you want. Feel free to choose any of the definitions. And I'm asking what your opinion is, regardless of whatever I've said my opinions were. I'll simplify the question just in case you want to change your answer based on my response

    Which do you think requires more faith:
    Option A - Not believing in God
    Option B - Believing in God

    Feel free to give the reasons for your answer.

    A. Requires personal omniscience. As that is impossible it must be replaced with a comparable quantity of faith.


  • Options
    #3130
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    What is and where was I disrespectful?

    I think you should pay attention to the plank in your eye.

    Oh, I am quite aware of it, thank you.


  • Options
    #3131
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    You should look up the word 'dogma'.

    And if the cap fits...

    Yes, it looks good on you.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3132
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Zombrex wrote: »
    Lol, yeah you try that Festus and see how you get on. Turn up to Mountjoy tomorrow and say you want a room for a few weeks... :rolleyes:

    Nah. If I did I'd get years.


  • Options
    #3133
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    Well yes as in we "believe" that the laws of physics are a certain standard. Setting them down as dogmatic statements is unwise, however science doesnt claim that if you dont believe in its teachings, that you are damned to hell for eternity like in the bible for example.

    Why are you introducing the Bible into the answer to a question on science? Do you believe there is a link?


  • Options
    #3134
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,446 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Festus wrote: »
    Penn wrote: »
    I said whatever definitions you want. Feel free to choose any of the definitions. And I'm asking what your opinion is, regardless of whatever I've said my opinions were. I'll simplify the question just in case you want to change your answer based on my response

    Which do you think requires more faith:
    Option A - Not believing in God
    Option B - Believing in God

    Feel free to give the reasons for your answer.

    A. Requires personal omniscience. As that is impossible it must be replaced with a comparable quantity of faith.

    I disagree. I don't know there's no God. I don't think there is, and I don't believe there is, but I don't claim to know there is or isn't. Same with most atheists, even Richard Dawkins. We absolutely cannot know for sure, so there is no personal omniscience.

    There is a difference between belief and knowledge. So again, I disagree with your answer.

    Which requires more physical energy: running for an hour or lying down for 5 minutes?


  • Options
    #3135
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Festus wrote: »
    A. Requires personal omniscience.

    You are walking down the street and a man walks up to you. He shouts "Look out, in 2 minutes a fire breathing dragon is going to come running down the street, he is going to burn everyone alive, and then to make matters worse, the moon is going to crash into the Earth killing anyone who the dragon didn't get, you need to get into this magic car as a fairy has cast a magic spell on it to protect us both from the dragon and the moon!"

    You say "Nah, I don't believe you, I'm not getting in your car" and continue on your day.

    Now, does that action on your part require faith or omniscience? (hint: no it doesn't, that would be silly).

    That is all an atheist is, someone who doesn't believe you or the other members of your religion (probably because the claims of your religion are a bit like claiming a dragon and then the moon are going to destroy the world).

    Just think of all the religions and other supernatural claims you don't believe. Do you believe people can see the future through tea leafs? Do you believe that walking under a ladder is back luck? Do you believe that the alignment of the stars predicts your future?


  • Options
    #3136
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    Oh, I am quite aware of it, thank you.

    How central to the fulfillment of the Messianic prophecy do you think Joseph of Aramathea was?

    Why couldn't God protect Jesus in the land of Israel rather than forcing His parents to flee?

    Why would the Jews go to such great lengths to ensure that the prophecy was fulfilled but deny that Jesus was the son of God?

    How can the three Magi be characterised as wise men when their actions led directly to the slaughter of the children of Bethlehem?

    Had it been known that Joseph was not the father of Jesus while she was alive, then Mary would have been stoned to death as an adulterer; how can we possibly know about the Virgin Birth?

    Or do you think that only atheists should answer the searching questions raised by Christianity and the Bible in general?

    Go on, give it a go. Evangelise me. It is your duty as a Christian. God won't mind if He does exist and if He doesn't then it won't matter.


  • Options
    #3137
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    Yes, it looks good on you.

    Do you deny your own dogmatism? Are you uncertain?


  • Options
    #3138
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    Nah. If I did I'd get years.

    Yes, Mountjoy is full of Christians.


  • Options
    #3139
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    Why are you introducing the Bible into the answer to a question on science? Do you believe there is a link?

    And yet you do not disagree with the substance of that post... interesting.

    You appear not to have any opinions of your own choosing instead to simply be obnoxious to other posters.

    Are you in the customer service business by any chance?


  • Options
    #3140
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Zombrex wrote: »
    That is all an atheist is, someone who doesn't believe you or the other members of your religion

    I'm not asking you to believe me, or the other members of whatever religion you have in mind.


  • Options
    #3141
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »

    You appear not to have any opinions of your own choosing instead to simply be obnoxious to other posters.

    Funny that. The words pot, black and kettle are coming to mind.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3142
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Do you deny your own dogmatism? Are you uncertain?

    What is my dogma?


  • Options
    #3143
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Go on, give it a go. Evangelise me. It is your duty as a Christian. God won't mind if He does exist and if He doesn't then it won't matter.

    nah, your mind is too narrow, too closed and too dogmatic, and you seem limited to pulling stock questions off militant atheist anti-Christian websites.


  • Options
    #3144
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Penn wrote: »
    I disagree. I don't know there's no God. I don't think there is, and I don't believe there is, but I don't claim to know there is or isn't. Same with most atheists, even Richard Dawkins. We absolutely cannot know for sure, so there is no personal omniscience.

    There is a difference between belief and knowledge. So again, I disagree with your answer.

    That's okay. I know God exists and I disagree with your belief system.
    Penn wrote: »
    Which requires more physical energy: running for an hour or lying down for 5 minutes?

    Is this relevant to faith and belief?


  • Options
    #3145
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    What is my dogma?

    Christianity I think.

    Look, if you don't want to address the valid points raised by atheists in this discussion that is fine; just carry on increasing your post count whilst saying nothing constructive. I must say though, your attempts to stifle this discussion are unhelpful to your cause.

    Unless of course it is your intention to undermine the credibility of the Christian position in which case you are doing a sterling job.


  • Options
    #3146
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    nah, your mind is too narrow, too closed and too dogmatic, and you seem limited to pulling stock questions off militant atheist anti-Christian websites.

    LOL & LMAO.

    The only websites I have consulted for this discussion are The Bible Gateway, The Catechism of the Catholic Church, a couple of links provided by ISAW and an online dictionary.

    All I require for a debate of the existence of God.

    Everything I have posted on this thread is supported by the Bible.

    You should try doing some research of your own sometime; you might learn something. Maybe you would come to have a valid contribution to make. :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #3147
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Christianity I think.

    Look, if you don't want to address the valid points raised by atheists in this discussion that is fine; just carry on increasing your post count whilst saying nothing constructive. I must say though, your attempts to stifle this discussion are unhelpful to your cause.

    Unless of course it is your intention to undermine the credibility of the Christian position in which case you are doing a sterling job.


    Validity implies truth and so far nothing of pure truth has been presented.

    I have asked straight questions which were either not answered or the answer was avoided with disohonest illogical obfuscated waffly double talk about dragons, faries, belief in no belief and running about the place along with a few obviously inflammatory comments about the the contents of the Bible and disrespectful comments about the faith of Christians.

    At least Penn had the good sense, or honesty, to admit that there is an element of faith to being an atheist, and I respect that.

    You on the other hand have come across as agenda based, condescending, arrogant and contemptuous and seem to be here for no reason other than to present anti-Christian arguments in general and anti-Catholic rhetoric in particular.

    I have read atheistic writings and I think it's all rubbish but I don't go wandering around the A&A forum looking to pitch battles by asking loaded questions.

    Quite simply I know it requires Faith to believe in God. I can understand why some people would choose not to believe in God, however this would leave a hole which must be replaced by something and that something cannot ever provide all the answers so in order to accept not knowing all the answers a form of faith is required to maintain sanity.

    If you call faith the beleif in either the impossible or the unknowable how do you cope with whatever it was that existed before the big bang?

    You know it is impossible for something to come from nothing. You also know it is impossible for you to ever know what was before the big bang. You meerly accept that it happened for no good reason and your entire existence is an accident. I believe that to make that stick and to construct a "reason" based argument that keeps you happy is an act of faith.

    I wonder what would happen if you put the same effort in to leaving yourself open for one minute a day to the concept of God.


  • Options
    #3148
    himnextdoor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    Festus wrote: »
    Validity implies truth and so far nothing of pure truth has been presented.

    Wow! That is some statement considering that much of what I posted was copied and pasted from the Bible.


  • Options
    #3149
    Improbable
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Improbable


    Festus wrote: »
    I can understand why some people would choose not to believe in God, however this would leave a hole which must be replaced by something and that something cannot ever provide all the answers so in order to accept not knowing all the answers a form of faith is required to maintain sanity.

    I don't think a belief in god has to be replaced by anything else. Why is this "hole" coming about that needs to be filled?
    Festus wrote: »
    If you call faith the beleif in either the impossible or the unknowable how do you cope with whatever it was that existed before the big bang?

    In the context of religion, I would say that faith is belief without proof.
    Festus wrote: »
    You know it is impossible for something to come from nothing. You also know it is impossible for you to ever know what was before the big bang. You meerly accept that it happened for no good reason and your entire existence is an accident. I believe that to make that stick and to construct a "reason" based argument that keeps you happy is an act of faith.

    What's wrong with simply saying "I don't know"? Why does something need to have a purpose attached to it?


  • Options
    #3150
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    himnextdoor wrote: »
    Wow! That is some statement considering that much of what I posted was copied and pasted from the Bible.

    Now you are just twisting things. You used the term validity in the context of various postings on atheism. I responded accordingly in the context of the atheistic presentations.

    But in case I missed it please point me towards your posting, one will do, that contains a quotation from the Bible that directly supports atheism, because all I can see is you misrepresenting the Bible to attack Christians and using selective out of context lines from the Cathechism to attack Catholics.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #3151
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Improbable wrote: »
    I don't think a belief in god has to be replaced by anything else. Why is this "hole" coming about that needs to be filled?

    That would depend on the person with the questions.

    Improbable wrote: »
    In the context of religion, I would say that faith is belief without proof.

    Fair point.

    Improbable wrote: »
    What's wrong with simply saying "I don't know"? Why does something need to have a purpose attached to it?

    Is there anything in the universe you can prove to have no purpose?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement