so, .. is squall the biggest ball bag in the final fantasy series?

jethro081

i have just started playing final fantasy eight again, and this will be my first play through since i've been in any sense of the word, .. an adult.

so, my question is this, is squall actually the biggest pr1ck in rpg history, or is it just me?

Retr0gamer

Pretty much. He's an unlikeable tosser. He's emo (I hate everything, ugh whatever guys), an ignorant prick and despite treating everyone like **** they all like him and he gets the girl. Terrible, terrible characterisation.

Azure_sky

No, Tidus is far more annoying. At least Squall tries to be stoic. I think people forget that most of his emo rants are monologues. So you have to take into context that he generally doesn't burden his party with his misery.
Not so with Tidus though...and that voice...

Mr. K

...and that laughing scene. Tidus is way more annoying than Squall!

Azure_sky

Mr. K wrote: »

...and that laughing scene. Tidus is way more annoying than Squall!

This sums up Tidus for me.

keane2097

Always thought Squall was class.

He was surrounded by gob****es and had little or no tolerance for them, which I always respected

Aurongroove

Squall was Emo before Emo though.
So no points for saying he's a dick now-a-days

Retr0gamer

He may not have been emo but he was a bellend.

Sephiroth_dude

Azure_sky wrote: »

No, Tidus is far more annoying. At least Squall tries to be stoic. I think people forget that most of his emo rants are monologues. So you have to take into context that he generally doesn't burden his party with his misery.
Not so with Tidus though...and that voice...

Tidus really annoyed me,I auron though.

d'Oracle

Mr. K wrote: »

...and that laughing scene. Tidus is way more annoying than Squall!

And probably just as annoying as that Vaan twink.

seraphimvc

do we forget SNOW or HOPE??! oh HOPE, oh........

d'Oracle

seraphimvc wrote: »

do we forget SNOW or HOPE??! oh HOPE, oh........

Well I do.
Or maybe, I just never knew what you are talking about in the first place.

I believe the jist here is that most FF characters are unbearable douchebags.

Aurongroove

It's the localization people!

THE LOCALIZATIOOOOOOON!!!!

Retr0gamer

They stayed pretty true to the original game for FF8 so it's not like the difference between bad ass western cloud and whining shinji bitch eastern cloud.

Aurongroove

lolimi.

Azure_sky

d'Oracle wrote: »

And probably just as annoying as that Vaan twink.

I noticed that virtually every single video game character in a JRPG or SNK fighting game either looks like a stereotypical twink or a very androgynous male. Nothing wrong with that. In fact I think the androgynous look is cool--but there's such a thing as over doing it. It's not cool or unique when every protagonist has the same look.

Kind of makes a joke of the reason Capcom gave for dismissing Poison as a playable character in Street fighter IV when you look at Ashe:
He later emphasized it again when asked about what female characters could be included in the game Street Fighter IV, stating that it would be too confusing to include her due to the region-specific gender.


Everyone knows what a transsexual is but ask someone what an androgyne is and you'll get a blank stare and..."Is that like a Dalek, bud?"

Aurongroove wrote: »

It's the localization people!

THE LOCALIZATIOOOOOOON!!!!

I heard that before but Tidus' mannerism alone are enough to put me off him.

Mario007

I liked Squall, obviously Square wanted to continue on with the type of Cloud character and went a bit over the top. But it's quite cool when you see him interacting with Rinoa (the dance scene at the start and then from the third CD onwards).
I actually think if they made him being less of a prick at the start it wouldn't be as good. He starts off thinking he's better than anyone and doesn't need anyone and then once Rinoa is knocked out for the full duration of the 3rd CD you see the 'true' side of Squall coming out. Having said that though, the game really could have foreshadowed Squall's affection with Rinoa a bit more as he seemed to be pretty much not interested in her until the 3rd CD and thats including his inner monologues.
In a way you can definitely see the Cloud-Aerith relationship happening here again. Cloud really becomes determined to kill Sephiroth only after Aerith dies and Aerith too was first in love with Cloud's rival/friend Zack. In FF8 you've got Rinoa liking Seifer and thinking Squall is an arrogant prick at fist.

With regards to Hope, who was also mentioned here, I think he's a whiney little annoying kid at the start. However, he develops brilliantly thanks to travelling with Lightning. That the thing about FF13 though, every character had an inherent flaw which they had to overcome during the first half of the game (till you get to Pulse).

The only character in FF that I didn't really like was Vaan in FF 12. He just didn't seem like a lead character at all and it was more like he was just going for the ride. Now granted the first few hours playing for Vaan were good (with his brother's backstory and whatnot) and he gets 2 scenes of character development throughout the game but that's too little really. It's to be expected really when he was tacked on as the main character at the end of the development process. In the sequel he feels like a much stronger character altogether and is actually relevant to story.

Retr0gamer

So Sqaull only realises he loves Rinoa when she is unconcious. Sounds like a date rapist to me.

Mario007

Retr0gamer wrote: »

So Sqaull only realises he loves Rinoa when she is unconcious. Sounds like a date rapist to me.

Haha true, as I've said that would be my biggest issue with Squall as a character that from the moment you switch off second CD and put in the third CD Squall suddenly cares. I know the dance scene could be said to foreshadow his interest in Rinoa but he actually rejects her during the second CD, plus in this FF we get to hear what the protagonist is thinking so there should have been more clues there

Lantus

Dont remember much issue with Squall. Good game overall. Tidus was also good. Tidus saw his entire city destroyed in the start of the game. I think overall he coped fairly well. In real life most people would just curl up and die at such events. In hindsight, all of these characters are probably too +ve when you think about what actually happens to them.

As for FFXIII. To attack a character personally in this game they would first have to have a personality which the developers for some reason left out in loo of shiny graphics and large turtles.

jethro081

ok, i'm just after getting to the end of ff8 again, so i think its only fair to give squall a more rounded opinion now.

he is still a sweaty ball bag.

but he is not as bad of a sweaty ball bag as he seemed at the start of the game.

the one thing that has really hit me during this play through of the game is that squall basically goes from an unqualified student to the leader of an mercenary force in what seems to be a matter of days. he is basically a teenager who is told, "ok, you've been in the thick of it for a week or so now, why don't you save the world now lad? that ok with you? no? shut up!"

i know all final fantasy protagonists seem to be caught on the crest of a wave for much of their journeys, but the way squall is officially given the task of sorting sh1t out kinda made me feel for the chap a bit, as hes only supposed to be 18 or so.

Cid was headmaster of garden, and he basically gives squall control and pops off to hang around in a torn down old house in the back arse of nowhere as soon as the going gets a little tough.

ditto laguna, who is president of a ****in country, and still decides to send a young lad off to save the world, for reasons that escape me.

it really makes me wonder about the mentality of the adults in that universe, that they are willing to entrust the fate of their world to someone who gets told they are too young to buy a naughty magazine in timber. i'd trust my kids with porn before i'd trust them with the fate of time and space.

so basically, squall is a ball bag, but as a previous poster said, he is surrounded by bigger, stupider ball bags, and at least squall attempts to get sh1t done. he did grow on me, but not enough to be truly likable.

noodler

I liked Tidus...

d'Oracle

jethro081 wrote: »

ok, i'm just after getting to the end of ff8 again, so i think its only fair to give squall a more rounded opinion now.

he is still a sweaty ball bag.

but he is not as bad of a sweaty ball bag as he seemed at the start of the game.

the one thing that has really hit me during this play through of the game is that squall basically goes from an unqualified student to the leader of an mercenary force in what seems to be a matter of days. he is basically a teenager who is told, "ok, you've been in the thick of it for a week or so now, why don't you save the world now lad? that ok with you? no? shut up!"

i know all final fantasy protagonists seem to be caught on the crest of a wave for much of their journeys, but the way squall is officially given the task of sorting sh1t out kinda made me feel for the chap a bit, as hes only supposed to be 18 or so.

Cid was headmaster of garden, and he basically gives squall control and pops off to hang around in a torn down old house in the back arse of nowhere as soon as the going gets a little tough.

ditto laguna, who is president of a ****in country, and still decides to send a young lad off to save the world, for reasons that escape me.

it really makes me wonder about the mentality of the adults in that universe, that they are willing to entrust the fate of their world to someone who gets told they are too young to buy a naughty magazine in timber. i'd trust my kids with porn before i'd trust them with the fate of time and space.

so basically, squall is a ball bag, but as a previous poster said, he is surrounded by bigger, stupider ball bags, and at least squall attempts to get sh1t done. he did grow on me, but not enough to be truly likable.

This would be a good point, if the whole end of the plot in FF8 wasn't just bat**** insane. Seriously all that

Orphanage

nonsense. It doesn't go well with how the human mind works.

Retr0gamer

The worst part of FF8... out of a lot of bad parts storywise.

'Oh we actually all grew up together in an orphanage with the main bad guy at the time looking after us but we just completely forgot about this because we have been using our GFs for so long and it made us forget. Oh but Irvine you only used your GF recently so you must remember.'

'Eh I did remember but I didn't think the fact that none of you knew each other despite growing up together or the fact that the person we were sent to assassinate was the person who brought us up was important.'

A lotof people think Zell is the biggest moron in the game but it's quite clearly Irvine.

jethro081

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The worst part of FF8... out of a lot of bad parts storywise.

'Oh we actually all grew up together in an orphanage with the main bad guy at the time looking after us but we just completely forgot about this because we have been using our GFs for so long and it made us forget. Oh but Irvine you only used your GF recently so you must remember.'

'Eh I did remember but I didn't think the fact that none of you knew each other despite growing up together or the fact that the person we were sent to assassinate was the person who brought us up was important.'

A lotof people think Zell is the biggest moron in the game but it's quite clearly Irvine.

i think zell gets a little hard done by, he doesn't really say much that is overtly stupid.

on the orphanage point, yeah, that was ridiculous, but it was ridiculous when i was twelve as well. the points i made there are ones that eluded me when i was a young fella.

its funny, i really enjoyed the game as a kid, and i've enjoyed it this time as well, but it is so flawed its kinda hard to take seriously, like, when you went to fight sephiroth in 7, or went into sort sin out in 10, you felt a kind of connection with what you were at. ff8 feels short, even though its not that short at all. i think its just a case of not really giving a crap about what im doing which makes it feel like the story hasn't reached its high arc that makes it feel short.

Retr0gamer

FF8's story is absolute garbage. However it is very nicely paced, the visuals are beautiful as is the soundtrack. It's still loads of fun to play. Still think it's great though and well worht playing. Just like FF7 it's got it's flaws but doesn't take away from them being great.

Mr.Nice Guy

I didn't mind Squall at the time but looking back he wasn't too likeable. The plot to the game was crazy though. This thread actually reminds me of Spoony's review of the game which is worth a look if people haven't seen it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1njLpZDfUCQ

I was in stitches when I first saw this as his criticisms of the game are fairly bang on.

Retr0gamer

A lot people don't know but FFVIII was developed to try capture the female audience that FF was gaining since FF6 and especially FF7. It was modelled to be a cheesey love story just like Titanic. Titanic was a big influence on it.

d'Oracle

Retr0gamer wrote: »

FF8's story is absolute garbage. However it is very nicely paced, the visuals are beautiful as is the soundtrack. It's still loads of fun to play. Still think it's great though and well worht playing. Just like FF7 it's got it's flaws but doesn't take away from them being great.

Frankly, as crap as it is, its still feckin war & peace compared to ff12.

noodler

Again, enjoyed very much the 1st disc and even alot of the 2nd disc.

I make no excuses for anything that happens after that though.

Retr0gamer

d'Oracle wrote: »

Frankly, as crap as it is, its still feckin war & peace compared to ff12.

Thought FF12 had a good story until the end when it was abviously rushed and was a total anticlimax. FF12 has lots of problems but the story isn't one of them for me.

noodler

12's gameplay for me was its strong point including the hunts etc - excellent boss fights.

The story and characters were pants. The Judges were really cool characters which went very underdeveloped.

Some parts of the FF12 world were also incredibly tedious to explore.

Retr0gamer

I was completely different, found the whole battle system tedious as was the exploring, mostly to do with the battle system. The boss battles were where the battle system worked but that's it. Mostly it was just a massive boss throwing out loads of status effects but there was a few that did different things. Vaan and Penelo were te only weak point in characters for me. They were totally superfluous.

d'Oracle

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Thought FF12 had a good story until the end when it was abviously rushed and was a total anticlimax. FF12 has lots of problems but the story isn't one of them for me.

I disagree.
Whole-bleedin-heartedly.

The story was a vehicle for locations.
And the charachters were woeful. I actually stopped caring by the end.
I had no Idea what the point of the lead charachter was.
Or that Panelo girl.

And herself in charge, she was just useless. "I'll do this now" "right, now that has happened, I'll do that." The occasional whinge about something and we are off again. Like all of Vaynes cunning twists you could see coming a mile off. It would be harder to predict when the next DART is.

Every damn quest nearly seemed to end in one anyway.


I also disagree with noodler, the gameplay was absolutely awful. In fact, the game actively tried to STOP you playing the game. Gambits my johnson. The boss fights were decent, but you basically had to have teh game play itself for you to beat some of them.

And the charachter progression....jeebus, you could concievably make them all the same!

The only really decent thing was the location design.

d'Oracle

Actually while I'm at it, Most of the Arch-Villains are bigger sacks than Squall.

noodler

d'Oracle wrote: »

I also disagree with noodler, the gameplay was absolutely awful. In fact, the game actively tried to STOP you playing the game. Gambits my johnson. The boss fights were decent, but you basically had to have teh game play itself for you to beat some of them.
.

The boss fights were a great challenge - managed to nearly all and never used gambits for them.

Your point about the gameplay is noted - I wouldn't personally use Gambits for any enemies I thought were an actual threat though.

I could always just run past enemies if they were no longer a threat / offered any useful reward rather than enter a loading screen and be forced to give a 10HP mushroom the same attention I would a 500,000HP dinosaur. Being able to simply run past enemies I didn't want to stop and fight (or have the automatic gambits kill them as I ran past - whichever came first) was great for me.

Didn't like the Quickenings though.

d'Oracle

noodler wrote: »

The boss fights were a great challenge - managed to nearly all and never used gambits for them.

Fair do's.
Specially that Cu Chullainn.

ancapailldorcha

On the whole, I liked XII, never got the point of Vaan though. After you meet Balthier and Fran he might as well have been completely absent. I liked the ideas Square tried to implement with XII and it was such a shame to see the PS2 unable to keep up (Spell queueing for example).

Overall, Vaan was just as pointless as Luneth in III but at least there was no character development in III whatsoever.

Raze_them_all

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

On the whole, I liked XII, never got the point of Vaan though. After you meet Balthier and Fran he might as well have been completely absent. I liked the ideas Square tried to implement with XII and it was such a shame to see the PS2 unable to keep up (Spell queueing for example).

Overall, Vaan was just as pointless as Luneth in III but at least there was no character development in III whatsoever.

Wasn't there talk that Vaan was just stuck in there and Balthier was supposedly going to be the main guy?

All Final Fantasy games have there twats and stupid points. I will say this though FF8 was my first FF and the visuals blew my fecking mind back then!

Also I never understood how people had trouble with ruby weapon in 7. He was a piece of piss.

Retr0gamer

There's rumours that the addition of Vaan and interference from the big wigs in Square to make FFXII more appealing to youths was the reason Matsuno left the project. Balthier was supposed to be the lead and he pretty much is going by how little Vaan contributes to the story.

carbonkid

Retr0gamer wrote: »

There's rumours that the addition of Vaan and interference from the big wigs in Square to make FFXII more appealing to youths was the reason Matsuno left the project. Balthier was supposed to be the lead and he pretty much is going by how little Vaan contributes to the story.

That explains alot. I thought vaan was meant to be an empty void so you can become the character...FF experimenting with how some western rpgs work. What your saying makes more sense though.

Mario007

Retr0gamer wrote: »

There's rumours that the addition of Vaan and interference from the big wigs in Square to make FFXII more appealing to youths was the reason Matsuno left the project. Balthier was supposed to be the lead and he pretty much is going by how little Vaan contributes to the story.

I've read that Bash was meant to be the lead but they changed it in the end because they looked at Vagrant Story which also had a strong macho leader and didn't want to repeat that again.

TO be honest Vaan is great at the start of the game, your typical protagoinist and you feel for him. He disappears completely after you save Ashe. Up until then he's good. After that he gets that one scene with Ashe where he shows development and that's it. Having said that I've played the sequel to 12 and there he really shines. It shows that when a story is written with him in mind he can be quite a good character.

d'Oracle

Mario007 wrote: »

TO be honest Vaan is great at the start of the game, your typical protagoinist and you feel for him. He disappears completely after you save Ashe. Up until then he's good. After that he gets that one scene with Ashe where he shows development and that's it. Having said that I've played the sequel to 12 and there he really shines. It shows that when a story is written with him in mind he can be quite a good character.

I wanted to reach into the telly and slap his bucky little girl-boy mouth everytime he said or did anything. He was Tidus without the back-story or the sex drive.

Mario007

d'Oracle wrote: »

I wanted to reach into the telly and slap his bucky little girl-boy mouth everytime he said or did anything. He was Tidus without the back-story or the sex drive.

as i've said you want him to redeem himself i'd advice picking up the sequel for the DS. There he more resembles a mix between Zidane and Sora (from KH series) and actually becomes the centre protagonist.

Having said that I too hated him in 12 (the only ff protagonist which i hated to date)

d'Oracle

Thanks but those bubblegum-pop sequels were not my bag.

And FF12 basically killed the series dead for me.

FortuneChip

I liked Squall, but that's probably because he existed in my "Too Cool To Care" teen years.
I'm sure in retrospect he's an arse.
Vaan was useless. Balthier would have been a more ideal lead, and probably one of the more unique ones to date. He was charming, and a natural leader, but had some demons too.

I liked Tidus. He was certainly childish and all the qualities that go with it, but he had enthusiasm to spare and didn't just sulk his way through the game. Plus, he was dealing with quiet a bit; so that guy that's killing this world you've never been to before, that's your dad, say "hi"

MitchKoobski

While I do kinda like Tidus, I find him to be a bigger eejit than Squall (I'm not using the term ballbag....). Vaan was just pointless. After the first hour or two, he does nothing! I didn't think it was possible to make every other main character more likeable than your lead character.

Squall, while a feckin depressing emo, did jump off a building, kill a soldier, steal a car, ram into the gate while nearly knocking everyone over, and gave a great speech trying to rally everyone. And he has a gunblade.

d'Oracle

Vaan, I mean, say what you like about the tenents of being an standoff emo douche, but at least its personality.

Mario007

d'Oracle wrote: »

Thanks but those bubblegum-pop sequels were not my bag.

And FF12 basically killed the series dead for me.

Actually only the sequel to 10 was a teeny J-pop sort of a game Revenant Wings (which the sequal for 12) is a srpg for the ds. it starts off a bit slow, kinda like you expect in an ff game, doing some minor little thing when you realize that there's a bigger picture and you're off to save the world :P

i have to say i too was disappointed with 12 mainly because of how disconnected you feel with the affairs of the Ivalice. I liked 13, though, which many people didint, so...

Raze_them_all

Mario007 wrote: »

Actually only the sequel to 10 was a teeny J-pop sort of a game Revenant Wings (which the sequal for 12) is a srpg for the ds. it starts off a bit slow, kinda like you expect in an ff game, doing some minor little thing when you realize that there's a bigger picture and you're off to save the world :P

i have to say i too was disappointed with 12 mainly because of how disconnected you feel with the affairs of the Ivalice. I liked 13, though, which many people didint, so...

so you clearly know nothing about games!!


13 was retarded.

DHYNZY

MitchKoobski wrote: »

he has a gunblade.[\b]

this is why I have only fond memories of Squall!