Jonny Sexton Irish Captain

wicklowwonder

everyone up until now has hailed Heaslip as future Ireland captain after BOD give it to Sexton! he has matured into a genius! Alot of players are crediting him for yesterday, and he is a guarantee started! Thoughts? Ease dont drag this thread down by mentioning ROG! He will retire after WC

gcgirl

Completely spot on he would be an excellent choice as captain

racso1975

Leinsters biggest supporter but how could you honestly make him capt? Johnny can turn a game on it's head by being ultra amazing or ultra brutal. His consistency not there yet. Next capt should be somebody who only has 2 years left in him and that will give the current bunch a bit more maturity

durkadurka

Getting a bit ahead of ourselves I think. Immense yesterday but I don't remember him ever captaining Leinster even.

andrewdcs

Mary macaleese is standing down soon.

Sexy for president!:D

pajunior

racso1975 wrote: »

Leinsters biggest supporter but how could you honestly make him capt? Johnny can turn a game on it's head by being ultra amazing or ultra brutal. His consistency not there yet. Next capt should be somebody who only has 2 years left in him and that will give the current bunch a bit more maturity

No consistency? He was near perfect in 8 HC games in a row! Over 90% kicking success.

But this thread is very ahead of itself, BOD will in all likelyhood stay on til 2013 and I see no reason to take away the captaincy until then. At that stage it might be very obvious who the next captain will be.

If I was a betting man then yes I would put a spread on Heaslip and Sexton but who knows it's over two years away.

Useless discussion because people are going to be too emotional to think about this rationally.

racso1975

pajunior wrote: »

No consistency? He was near perfect in 8 HC games in a row! Over 90% kicking success.

But this thread is very ahead of itself, BOD will in all likelyhood stay on til 2013 and I see no reason to take away the captaincy until then. At that stage it might be very obvious who the next captain will be.

If I was a betting man then yes I would put a spread on Heaslip and Sexton but who knows it's over two years away.

Useless discussion because people are going to be too emotional to think about this rationally.

the op asked about ireland capt not leinster. He has not been consistent for ireland

pajunior

racso1975 wrote: »

the op asked about ireland capt not leinster. He has not been consistent for ireland

Disagre, this years 6 nations he had two average games for Ireland which come down to the team playing awful then he had one superb game.
So pretty much he was as consistent as anyone on the team.
In the AI's he played average again while the rest of the team was playing average. Again he was as consistent as the rest of the team.
Going back to the previous 6 nations he played average in a few games and had one awful game against Scotland. This time he was a bit below some of his team-mates especially the likes of Bowe, but by and large he played as well as everyone else on the team.
Back to the 09 AIs and he had one perfect but non-important game and one perfect game against the world champions.

My little summary of JS's time in the Irish team is that he has played about as good as the rest of his team. In my mind the only Irish players that have played significantly more consistently are Heaslip (apart from that red card), Bowe, Geordan Murphy (even if he doesn't play that often he has always done well) and ROG (yes I'm a leinster fan who thinks he is a good player but please lets not get into that debate).

So 4 players who have vast amounts of experience have been more consistent then the new kid on the block, hardly reason the doubt his captaincy credentials especially since it's two years before it's up for grabs.

Also now that I think about it a little more I would love to see Bowe get the captaincy I'm a huge fan of his.

peterako

And the big differnce in the AI's when we and Johnny played well....quick ball.

So it's hard to say he played average if he wasn't being given time to play.

But I think it'll be a back row captain next. Maybe for the same reasons McCaw is NZ captain......

colman1212

Defo way way too early for this thread!! Drico isn't going anywhere for another while and sexton has never captained Leinster or Ireland. Being a great player doesn't mean you should be made captain.

ambid

I actually wouldn't like to see Sexton as captain. He carries a huge responsibility as fly half anyway, and the leadership needs to be spread more evenly throughout the other leaders in the team.

Badgermonkey

OP, that's the kind of silliness I'd expect from McGuirk.

One good or bad game and we are either best/worst rugby team on the planet.

Calm down dear.

Dr.Evil

ambid wrote: »

I actually wouldn't like to see Sexton as captain. He carries a huge responsibility as fly half anyway, and the leadership needs to be spread more evenly throughout the other leaders in the team.

Yeah, I'd agree with this tbh. As out half he already has a huge role in the team and already has to make enough decisions. If he's doing all this already, adding an extra armband won't do too much. Putting it on someone else just ensures another leader in the team.

Tomtom364

Sexton isnt a certain start for Ireland though.
Its still between himself and ROG, depending how Ireland want to play a game.
(not getting into that debate now, just going on how it stood after the 6 nations)

Sexton doesn't need the captain's armband to be a leader. Better off without the responsibility tbh, let him keep playing the best rugby he can, and leave the politics to the senior lads.

Conas

This is way too quick, and it's all because of his half time speech. To be fair he still has a lot to prove at International Level to be given the captains armband.

yimrsg

I'd be against Sexton as next Ireland (or Leinster) captain as I feel that as our long term 10 that he has enough of a burden without being encumbered with the captain's armband. As others have talked about, my inclination is towards a back rower such as Heaslip getting captaincy.

Even if there were to be a change, I'd expect that to happen after the WC and even then I'd imagine that as long as BOD wants it he's more than likely to hold on to it. Dan Carter is inspirational for NZ and is key for them but it works for NZ that he's not shackled with captaincy and can play his normal game.

I had seen Sexton as someone who would primarily be a do-er rather than a talk-er but after seeing him in the first half standing in the centre of a huddle berating more senior members of Leinster after the second or third try for NH, he seems to have become both. The match against NH seems to have brought out this unseen element from him that has elevated him in many peoples eyes and I'd be hoping that he can take this newfound mental fortitude with him and continue using it for Leinster & Ireland for years to come. Whether he's captain or not, it's great for Irish rugby that someone has stamped his authority so clearly on a such an important match in dire circumstances.

PhatPiggins

Brent Pope thinks he should convert to hooker before thinking about the captaincy

Cpt_Blackbeard

Why do these impulsive/shite threads get so much responses?

Sexton is an Outhalf. As an OH it is his job to lead the backline. He doesn't need the added responsibility of being captain.

He was brilliant in the second half against NH without doubt but, we must remember that it was the cynical play by our captain-elect which created the gaps for Sexton to exploit.

rockman15

OH never make good captains in my own experience. They need a clear mandate to get the team in the best position possible to attack and defend. As correctly pointed out earlier he doesnt need an armband to be a leader. Fairly obvious from what B(G)OD said yesterday.

Personally I would give it to Heaslip. I see him as the next leinster captain already. I think Ireland benefit from an example setting type leader. The kind of guy you would follow into battle. As it stands Leinster and Ireland have enough talking leaders and senior players to give the teams a kick in the ass when needed. Its the player who we can rally around when the chips are down, the moment of magic in defense or offense. That sort of thing.

It seems to be standard across the world. McCaw, Matfield, Dusatoir, Parisse all big moment players who lead by example. Lets leave McCaws tactics aside for a second. I think for the time being Heaslip would have a lot to learn in terms of game management from a leaders point of view. But the fundamentals are clearly there.

Piliger

ambid wrote: »

I actually wouldn't like to see Sexton as captain. He carries a huge responsibility as fly half anyway, and the leadership needs to be spread more evenly throughout the other leaders in the team.

I agree. Let the guy play his game and let him inspire when he can without having to carry the weight of responsibility for everyone else too. The captaincy is a heavy heavy burden that was too much for BOD for a while. The best player is not always the best captain.

Guitarist93

I think that Sexton would be a brilliant captain especially after his performance for leinster yesterday. Like come on the lad practically won the Heineken Cup for Leinster by himself. He's a genius. Way better than ROG

duckysauce

Guitarist93 wrote: »

I think that Sexton would be a brilliant captain especially after his performance for leinster yesterday. Like come on the lad practically won the Heineken Cup for Leinster by himself. He's a genius. Way better than ROG

eh did you read the first post ?

danthefan

Another season or two and maybe, seems to be very influential at Leinster now anyway.

TheHighRoad

Give the man whatever he wants.

eoferrall

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Why do these impulsive/shite threads get so much responses?

Sexton is an Outhalf. As an OH it is his job to lead the backline. He doesn't need the added responsibility of being captain.

He was brilliant in the second half against NH without doubt but, we must remember that it was the cynical play by our captain-elect which created the gaps for Sexton to exploit.

Rubbish. you keep saying this & he did nothing illegal, Heaslip ran straight continuing the line he ran with the ball in my opinion he was still running a support line. nothing wrong there.

I don't post here at all but its starting to grate the bitterness that comes across in a lot of posts since yesterday (not directed specfically at Cpt Blackbeard) from many posters.

If anyone could point me in the direction of the rule/law that Heaslip broke by continuing a supporting run even though he overran the pass (that was never thrown) I'd be very grateful.

The sole reason that anyone has raised any objection to that was because George Drama Hook needed some **** to stir.

Seriously folks, explain to me whether you think Heaslip is not entitled to be in support of the ball carrier. Then consider the role of a back rower. Then rethink the first part, it should become quite elementary to realise that he did nothing wrong.

accensi0n

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Why do these impulsive/shite threads get so much responses?

lol. I doubt you'll get why this is funny.

myflipflops

Hook annointing him future captain in the Indo today.

Like O'Driscoll, Sexton leads by example. On Saturday, the future captaincy of Ireland moved from No 8 to No 10

I love the way Hook can go from doubting the guys ability and potential during the 6 Nations to declaring him future captain. He will be back to dismissing Sexton again the next time he struggles in green.

Personally, I don't see him as captain, certainly not of Ireland. He is a leader but not a captain. People will read too much into his half time words and his words behind the posts after Northampton tries in the first half.

I've seen Donncha O'Callaghan speak a lot after Munster have conceded but you would never make him captain. John Kelly apparently used to be a very vocal guy in Munster team meeting too but again, not a guy I would make captain.

I say leave Sexton to kick his goals and run the line and give the captaincy to a fatty up front when O'Driscoll goes.

Kiss of death from Hook. His predictions are less accurate than the date of the rapture.

wixfjord

myflipflops wrote: »

Hook annointing him future captain in the Indo today.

Like O'Driscoll, Sexton leads by example. On Saturday, the future captaincy of Ireland moved from No 8 to No 10

I love the way Hook can go from doubting the guys ability and potential during the 6 Nations to declaring him future captain. He will be back to dismissing Sexton again the next time he struggles in green.

Personally, I don't see him as captain, certainly not of Ireland. He is a leader but not a captain. People will read too much into his half time words and his words behind the posts after Northampton tries in the first half.

I've seen Donncha O'Callaghan speak a lot after Munster have conceded but you would never make him captain. John Kelly apparently used to be a very vocal guy in Munster team meeting too but again, not a guy I would make captain.

I say leave Sexton to kick his goals and run the line and give the captaincy to a fatty up front when O'Driscoll goes.

Just another example of Hookys ridiculous commentry.

Tomtom364

myflipflops wrote: »

Hook annointing him future captain in the Indo today.

Like O'Driscoll, Sexton leads by example. On Saturday, the future captaincy of Ireland moved from No 8 to No 10

I love the way Hook can go from doubting the guys ability and potential during the 6 Nations to declaring him future captain. He will be back to dismissing Sexton again the next time he struggles in green.

Personally, I don't see him as captain, certainly not of Ireland. He is a leader but not a captain. People will read too much into his half time words and his words behind the posts after Northampton tries in the first half.

I've seen Donncha O'Callaghan speak a lot after Munster have conceded but you would never make him captain. John Kelly apparently used to be a very vocal guy in Munster team meeting too but again, not a guy I would make captain.

I say leave Sexton to kick his goals and run the line and give the captaincy to a fatty up front when O'Driscoll goes.

TBH, never really saw Heaslip as a future captain either. Great player, but I never thought it would suit him, seems like a player that does better just concentrating on his own game.

TheHighRoad

Sexton's performances this season in the HC have been the best from any outhalf in the HC that I can ever remember. I was quite shocked that he wasn't nominated for the HC Player of the year on the back of his games thus far BEFORE the final. Hes not Dan Carter and may not play like Dan Carter but when he plays like he played yesterday he is just as damn effective attacking.

andrewdcs

Next head of the IMF?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/leinster-fans-in-rapture-at-triumphant-homecoming-2654561.html

GerM

wixfjord wrote: »

Just another example of Hookys ridiculous commentry.

I could never take Hook seriously when it comes to discussing the captaincy. I'll always remember his pathetic comments before we went out and were hammered by England in 2008 at Twickenham. He had been sticking the knife into BOD big time beforehand saying he wasn't a captain and couldn't lead. BOD was out of the England game and ROG was named captain. When asked to predict the result Hook said "Ireland to win because they're now being led by a real man". It was a ridiculous insult to make. If he's backing Sexton for captain then I am wholeheartedly endorsing Heaslip's claims.

I generally prefer a forward to be captain anyway. I think most people do. Someone that can lead from the front and get stuck in. A back can only have a limited impact if the forwards aren't doing the business. I think the last HEC winning captain that was a back was David Humphreys.

pajunior

GerM wrote: »

I could never take Hook seriously when it comes to discussing the captaincy. I'll always remember his pathetic comments before we went out and were hammered by England in 2008 at Twickenham. He had been sticking the knife into BOD big time beforehand saying he wasn't a captain and couldn't lead. BOD was out of the England game and ROG was named captain. When asked to predict the result Hook said "Ireland to win because they're now being led by a real man". It was a ridiculous insult to make. If he's backing Sexton for captain then I am wholeheartedly endorsing Heaslip's claims.

I generally prefer a forward to be captain anyway. I think most people do. Someone that can lead from the front and get stuck in. A back can only have a limited impact if the forwards aren't doing the business. I think the last HEC winning captain that was a back was David Humphreys.

But two of the last three 6 nations winning captains were centres.

Not that your point is any less valid. Most people do prefer a forward as captain but BOD has hardly done us any wrong.

As for Hook I've heard him call for at least three different captains of Irleand since BOD took over.

Eoin

A couple of the stand-in captains / leaders over the years have included Simon Easterby and Rory Best.

These are guys who might not have been selected to start if they were picked purely on their playing ability, but their leadership skills have given them the edge. These are probably also guys that nobody outside of the Irish squad & management would have really known were considered as leaders by the players.

I reckon it's very hard for anyone not closely involved with the squad to know who should be captain. Being able to give an inspirational talk at half time does not necessarily mean you'll be a good captain either; you need to be a cool-headed decision maker throughout the 80+ minutes as well. For all we know, the next captain could be someone who the public considered nothing more than a journeyman, but can lead.

Jemo

I generally don't like outhalves to be captain, they already carry a serious amount of responsibility and have a lot of preparation to do for moves etc. which means they are better off having those extra few minutes a game to survey their options whilst the captain is off being told off by the ref. It can effect their kicking game too when they try take too much out of things etc.

BOD is an extremely effective captain as a back because he is seriously involved in all aspects of play but there are not too many players who can do so. I think a backrow will be the next Ireland captain but that probably will happen gradually in the year after the world cup as BOD gets rested more.

Heaslip needs to iron out a few kinks and he would be a good option. The second row would be a stop-gap situation as POC isn't going to go more than a season after BOD judging by his injury rate. Best could be the answer, but with Strauss and Cronin improving he could not see as much action as we would like. SOB has captained Leinster on occasion, could be an outside bet but I doubt it.

To my eyes, the only definitive starters over the next few years looking up to the next rwc would be these players at this juncture:

Healy
Sexton
Heaslip
SOB
Bowe
Earls
Kearney

Of these Heaslip is the best option in my opinion but then again all could change by the time BOD does decide to hang up his boots.

durkadurka

It really is an outrage that hook gets so much airtime for his views. He is wrong about nearly everything. He is hateful, unbalanced, biased and ignorant.

To talk about sexton like that after one match is ridiculous IMHO after him slagging him off for years.

His article today was full of heaslip and his obstruction but never mentioned shaggy being held back. There's your lack of balance.

He has been wrong about Leinster and Schmidt all year and he has been humiliated IMO and yet he still gets work, and his opinions are quoted by casual fans everywhere .

He is lazy in that his research is very poor, incompetent and a controversionalist. He wouldn't hast five minutes in this forum because his inconsistencies and lack of knowledge would be exposed ruthlessly.

Rant over .

Hook = Eamonn Dunphy.

Knows enough bullshit to win a pub quiz, says enough bullshit to start the bar brawl after.

He's just there to stir things up, and he's damn good at it. Please stop taking him seriously!

Trojan

Deleted User wrote: »

Hook = Eamonn Dunphy.

Totally and utterly unfair to Dunphy - at least he watches the game. Hook, by his own admission, doesn't even bother to watch the Magners League.

As for Sexton, he might grow into the role, but give him time.

val_jester

Trojan wrote: »

Totally and utterly unfair to Dunphy - at least he watches the game. Hook, by his own admission, doesn't even bother to watch the Magners League.

As for Sexton, he might grow into the role, but give him time.

I'd agree with you on Hook but I don't think Sexton should ever be captain. Over time in many become the team leader but as a 10 he is the main decision maker and that is enough pressure. For Ireland atm you can see when Ireland get a penalty in kickable range BOD, POC and the outhalf discuss what to do. Its much better than having just one person decide. I would have thought BOD will stay captain as long as he wants before it goes to a forward maybe sob

jacothelad

wicklowwonder wrote: »

everyone up until now has hailed Heaslip as future Ireland captain after BOD give it to Sexton! he has matured into a genius! Alot of players are crediting him for yesterday, and he is a guarantee started! Thoughts? Ease dont drag this thread down by mentioning ROG! He will retire after WC

He had a brilliant 40 minutes. Let's not get carried away. One journalist today had him elevated to the status of Dan Carter ffs. He's very, very, very good and a dedicated and ambitious player so there is no reason why he couldn't be. However captains are not always the teams 'star' player. Others may have qualities that mean fellow players will follow them in the 'trenches' as it were. Like POC or Johnston or Bill McBride. Forwards win games so there is a reason why many captains are often taken from that group.

Piliger

Carter is constantly over rated. It's easy to over rate out halves and scrum halves who play behind dominant packs and teams. It makes them look way better than they are. Carter is good. he is very good. But I've seen many better.

val_jester

Piliger wrote: »

Carter is constantly over rated. It's easy to over rate out halves and scrum halves who play behind dominant packs and teams. It makes them look way better than they are. Carter is good. he is very good. But I've seen many better.

Sorry but Carter is excellent, he is one of the best players in the world. Of course it helps to have a dominant pack but you just have to see the difference in NZ's play when he is not available to see how important he is.

Eoin

It's irrelevant how good Carter is, and how good Sexton is compared to him. You don't pick the captain because he's the best player. It's pointless just naming people as future captains because they're playing well.

Maxav

Deleted User wrote: »

Kiss of death from Hook. His predictions are less accurate than the date of the rapture.

:D

pajunior

Piliger wrote: »

Carter is constantly over rated. It's easy to over rate out halves and scrum halves who play behind dominant packs and teams. It makes them look way better than they are. Carter is good. he is very good. But I've seen many better.

Ah now, how many is many?

Hasn't been anyone who can touch Carter in at least ten years (my age defies my memory after that )

skregs

Clearly if he captains Leinster in future and guides them to more Heineken Cup success, Declan Kidney might rate him highly enough to sit on the Ireland bench behind a three-legged dog from Munster

Tomtom364

skregs wrote: »

Clearly if he captains Leinster in future and guides them to more Heineken Cup success, Declan Kidney might rate him highly enough to sit on the Ireland bench behind a three-legged dog from Munster

never mind these kickers who can kick off two sides... one that kicks off 3 sides is clearly a superior option.

_blank_

skregs wrote: »

Clearly if he captains Leinster in future and guides them to more Heineken Cup success, Declan Kidney might rate him highly enough to sit on the Ireland bench behind a three-legged dog from Munster

No-one else respond to this post. Thanks