Polybond fresh plaster or not?

paddy147

Should I apply polybond (3-1 diluted mix) to a fresh plastered wall?

The plaster is now fully dried out.

The plasterer told me that polybonding it will seal it and I wont go through buckets of paint.

So is it ok to roller on diluted pollybond??

Thanks.:)

michael999999

Do not put polybond on plaster. Give it two coats of paint straight out of the bucket and the walls will cover fine.

paddy147

michael999999 wrote: »

Do not put polybond on plaster. Give it two coats of paint straight out of the bucket and the walls will cover fine.

So why not polybond then?

The plasterer and even the local builders providers said to roller on diluted polybond.

michael999999

Im painting with 15 years and i have never used or seen anyone else use polybond on a plastered wall,The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards. Give it 2 coats of paint,the plaster will not soak that much.

The plasterer is just that a plasterer,and the builders providers will tell you that to make a sale.

paddy147

michael999999 wrote: »

Im painting with 15 years and i have never used or seen anyone else use polybond on a plastered wall,The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards. Give it 2 coats of paint,the plaster will not soak that much.

The plasterer is just that a plasterer,and the builders providers will tell you that to make a sale.

Fair enough so.:)

Should I water down the emulsion paint for the 1st application/coat??

michael999999

The paint is designed these days to be applied straight out of the can. You will also get a more solid looking finish to the painted walls if you use it straight.

paddy147

Right thats that sorted then.:)

Can I ask then,what the hell is polybond used for then???

michael999999

Its used for waterproofing or sealing concrete and fair faced blocks.

brendankelly

The plasterer puts on all his tapes, scrim,angle beads etc with joint filler. This stuff has far more suction than the plaster board so a very watered down amount of polybond is put on the joint filler to delay the drying out time of the first coat of skim.

YouTookMyName

paddy147 wrote: »

Can I ask then,what the hell is polybond used for then???

It gives suction to old plaster and bare faced concrete.

Example if you plastered a wall in mortar and just scratched it for tiling and left it until it dried out fully. But changed your mind and wanted it half skimmed and half tiled.

The plasterer would brush on polybond to the scratch to make the skim stick better to it.

Paul.C

Well, im in disagreement with this. I always apply polybond to newly plastered walls. Not 3-1 but usually about 5-1. It does seal the walls and only 2-3 coats of paint are required after.

This is how I learned and I had a great teacher:)

This polybond question always comes up and there is always 2 sides.

There are many different ways to do many different jobs. Usually the right way and the wrong way.

Putting polybond on first or just priming is the right way. So whether or not you agree with this, it is not the wrong way and that's the most important thing. Personally, I would always polybond and paint over. Also The paint does not slide down as said above. Thats just jargle, it applies perfect-EVERYtime:D

antoinolachtnai

You can use polybond for just about anything, that's the beauty and the problem with it. But it's not a panacea.

You are going to the expense of using expensive modern gypsum plasters and emulsion paints. These materials have been developed and refined at a cost of tens or even hundreds of millions of euros, and the manufacturers have technical departments and provide technical guidance. It makes sense to follow the instructions on the tin and on the datasheet as precisely as you can. If you are uncertain, ring the manufacturer and ask them what they think you should do.

Paul.C

YouTookMyName wrote: »

It gives suction to old plaster and bare faced concrete.

Example if you plastered a wall in mortar and just scratched it for tiling and left it until it dried out fully. But changed your mind and wanted it half skimmed and half tiled.

The plasterer would brush on polybond to the scratch to make the skim stick better to it.

Also used for patchwork for better grip and to stop the plaster going dry and lumpy prematurely

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards. Give it 2 coats of paint,the plaster will not soak that much.

This is untrue. Either your mixing it too thick or you havnt really tried it before:rolleyes:

For example. It can take me 1 coat of polybond and 2-3 of paint to get a perfect finish.

Whereas it has taken me up to 5 layers of paint to get the same.

Also I have never experienced this sliding effect and I know plenty of painters who use this technique too.

A plasterer is just a plasterer and a painter is just a painter
Everyone is thought different and therefore just because your technique is different doesn't mean that their technique is wrong:rolleyes: As they say there's a hundred ways to bake a cake.

paddy147

Right so.talking to a painter who lives down the road from me,this morning.

He gave me this 5 litre tub of stuff for free and said to dilute it and just roller it on.

I have 3 questions

1-Is this the right stuff to use?

2-This isnt polybond then,is it?

3-What instruction listed below is most suited to fresh plastered internal walls?

Thanks.:)

P.S-Please excuse all the questions,Im not a painter,so I would rather seem silly and ask all the questions here 1st,before painting or doing anything.

Paul.C

paddy147 wrote: »

Right so.talking to a painter who lives down the road from me,this morning.

He gave me this 5 litre tub of stuff for free and said to dilute it and just roller it on.

I have 3 questions

1-Is this the right stuff to use?

2-This isnt polybond then,is it?

3-What instruction listed below is most suited to fresh plastered internal walls?

Thanks.:)

Yep, thats the stuff, it comes in lots of different versions.

Mix it a little thinner than the consistency of cream. (Not whipped:))

paddy147

Paul.C wrote: »

Yep, thats the stuff, it comes in lots of different versions.

Mix it a little thinner than the consistency of cream. (Not whipped:))

Thanks.

Is it PVA or polybond,as Im confused here?:D

Painter said 4-1 mix and let is dry in.

Is that right?

Thanks.:)

Paul.C

paddy147 wrote: »

Thanks.

Is it PVA or polybond,as Im confused here?:D

Painter said 4-1 mix and let is dry in.

Is that right?

Thanks.:)

Some polybonds come with it written on the container. Others with the PVA on it.

Its polybond alright, I think it depends on company that makes it. Really all polybond is, is PVA glue.

4-1 mix should be grand with no surface prep bar sanding or filling anywhere that needs it;)

paddy147

Paul.C wrote: »

Some polybonds come with it written on the container. Others with the PVA on it.

Its polybond alright, I think it depends on company that makes it. Really all polybond is, is PVA glue.

4-1 mix should be grand with no surface prep bar sanding or filling anywhere that needs it;)

Thanks.:)

1 more question (sorry for wrecking your head )

Some of the internal walls in the house are old sand/cement and plaster,they were thiselbonded (green sandy solution) and thenwith the new plaster skimmed over.

While other walls were stripped back to the brickwork and plasterboard sheets were mushroomed in place and then skimmed over.


Is it ok to use the 4-1 mix on both surfaces??

Every ceiling and wall is now so smooth,and is unreal compared to what the house was like before.:eek:

Thanks again.:)

Paul.C

Once its a skimcoat finish you can use the polybony. Its basically creating a barrier between plaster and paint. You should be grand:)

I also find using it on the inside of external walls can be of benefit too. Iv even used it over paint when mildew and damp has seeped through. It stops the mildew or mould coming through to the inside.

paddy147

Paul.C wrote: »

Once its a skimcoat finish you can use the polybony. Its basically creating a barrier between plaster and paint. You should be grand:)

Yes,its all a skimcoat finish on both the solid brick walls and also on the plasterboard walls too

Thanks for your advice and help,I feel more confident about using this stuff now.:)

Paul.C

no worries, all the best:D

brendankelly

Paddy. Is there an architect or project manager on that job?. Is there specks for that job?. I have read a lot of specks and never read ""seal plaster with Polly bond before painting with an approved breathable paint"".

michael999999

brendankelly wrote: »

Paddy. Is there an architect or project manager on that job?. Is there specks for that job?. I have read a lot of specks and never read ""seal plaster with Polly bond before painting with an approved breathable paint"".

The op has been advised on 2 different threads that it is not advisable to polybond walls before painting.

There is a freephone number on the back of most cans of paint,im sure if the op rang this number he would be told by the paint manufacturer there is no need to polybond before painting.

brendankelly

I agree with you 100% Michael. The point I was trying to make was that paddy would be better off asking the Project manager or architect instead of listing to Paul C. Failing that if he did not read the specks as you point out he should read the directions on the can

paddy147

My house is built and finished,this is another old mid 1940s house that has just been replastered.

So no project manager or architect on this one.:)

michael999999

I dont disagree with you Brendan,i was just using your post to back up my one.In my 15 years as a painter i have never seen anyone use polybond on a plastered wall,and i done my apprenticeship with a company that had over 90 painters.

Polybond is used as a sealer,there is no need to seal a wall before painting it.Paint is designed to stick to plaster not pva.

The other poster says he needs 4-5 coats to get a proper finish without polybond.He doesnt sound like someone i would be taking painting tips off!

paddy147

So 1 person says use the PVA (diluted 4-1) and others say dont use it.

You guys are making me confused here.

I just want the easiest and quickest way to seal the fresh plaster so that I can get away with the least amount of paint applications on the walls/ceilings and also the fastest way to paint the walls and ceilings.

I have family comming over from London next Sunday and the house has to be ready and painted,so speed/easiest method is vital here.

Paul.C

brendankelly wrote: »

I agree with you 100% Michael. The point I was trying to make was that paddy would be better off asking the Project manager or architect instead of listing to Paul C. Failing that if he did not read the specks as you point out he should read the directions on the can

My entire house is done this way, first coat went on about 8 years ago and its been repainted a few times and guess what? its still flawless:P

be my guest, ring the number on the can! Im sure they would be happy to sell you more of their products:rolleyes:

15 years painting doesnt make you an expert! (no offence) In fact in 15 years you will still be learning, If not then theres something wrong!

As ive said earlier, theres always two sides- the one that were thought one way and the ones that were thought another. Its amazing how many people do this simple job differently and its always the same. :pac:

michael999999

paddy147 wrote: »

So i person says use the pVA and others say dont use it.

You guys are making me confused here.

I just want the easiest and quickest way to seal the fresh plaster so that I can get away with the least amount of paint applications on the walls/ceilings and also the fastest way to paint the walls and ceilings.

2 coats of white covermatt emulsion to the ceiling and 2 coats of matt or vinyl emulsion to the walls.Use it straight out of the can.Use dulux or crown, or if the budget stretches use colortrend,it is the best paint on the market.

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

I dont disagree with you Brendan,i was just using your post to back up my one.In my 15 years as a painter i have never seen anyone use polybond on a plastered wall,and i done my apprenticeship with a company that had over 90 painters.

Polybond is used as a sealer,there is no need to seal a wall before painting it.Paint is designed to stick to plaster not pva.

The other poster says he needs 4-5 coats to get a proper finish without polybond.He doesnt sound like someone i would be taking painting tips off!

lol, its an amazing coincidence that the painter down the road handed him a tub of polybond:D That must be one in a million:P

paddy147

michael999999 wrote: »

2 coats of white covermatt emulsion to the ceiling and 2 coats of matt or vinyl emulsion to the walls.Use it straight out of the can.Use dulux or crown, or if the budget stretches use colortrend,it is the best paint on the market.

On a very tight budget as my budget went on other parts of the house and fixing other things.

Also the entire house had to be replastered,as the old plaster was comming away from the walls in places all over the house.

I was advized on the diluted PVA stuff be the painter down the road from me,then a cheap white undercoat (berger or crown 10 litres for 15 euro) and then a Magnolia finish coat 9again berger or Crown 10 litres for 15 euro),and thats it,job done.

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards.

well you say in 15 years you have never seen anyone use it? well have you obviously used it yourself to come to this conclusion??

brendankelly

I knew that because no architect or project manager worth their salt would sign off on sealing plaster in any building. You should have a word with your builder because using sand and cement plaster or gypsum in an old house is not recommended

michael999999

Paul.C wrote: »

well you say in 15 years you have never seen anyone use it? well have you obviously used it yourself to come to this conclusion??

I think youll find i said on a plastered wall.I have used pva many times,we sealed over 100,000 fair faced blocks in the new Mary I building with it last year.

michael999999

paddy147 wrote: »

On a very tight budget as my budget went on other parts of the house and fixing other things.

Also the entire house had to be replastered,as the old plaster was comming away from the walls in places all over the house.

I was advized on the diluted PVA stuff be the painter down the road from me,then a cheap white undercoat (berger or crown 10 litres for 15 euro) and then a Magnolia finish coat 9again berger or Crown 10 litres for 15 euro),and thats it,job done.

Is he a painter or a jack of all trades, all paint is made from a white base, therefore the magnolia paint and the white paint is exactly the same thing. there is no need to undercoat it with white.Give it 2 coats of magnolia as a finish.

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Im painting with 15 years and i have never used or seen anyone else use polybond on a plastered wall,The paint will slide over the polybond afterwards. Give it 2 coats of paint,the plaster will not soak that much.

The plasterer is just that a plasterer,and the builders providers will tell you that to make a sale.

michael999999 wrote: »

I think youll find i said on a plastered wall.I have used pva many times,we sealed over 100,000 fair faced blocks in the new Mary I building with it last year.

Well then you haven't a clue what the outcome is on a plastered wall so. Which means you really arent qualified to give an educated view. What do you think the outcome here is going to be.....do you think the walls will all start peeling or falling to pieces?? Because from my "1st hand experience" learned from an actual expert..(about 45 years experience) The only problem Iv ever come across is having to use less paint. hmmm

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Is he a painter or a jack of all trades, all paint is made from a white base, therefore the magnolia paint and the white paint is exactly the same thing. there is no need to undercoat it with white.Give it 2 coats of magnolia as a finish.

???? white is cheaper and a different colour so wrong again:rolleyes:

650gs

If you polybond and there is any dampness even a small spot you will seal it in and it will bilster later 100%

michael999999

Paul.C wrote: »

Well then you haven't a clue what the outcome is on a plastered wall so. Which means you really arent qualified to give an educated view. What do you think the outcome here is going to be.....do you think the walls will all start peeling or falling to pieces?? Because from my "1st hand experience" learned from an actual expert..(about 45 years experience) The only problem Iv ever come across is having to use less paint. hmmm

Ya in your previous post you stated you needed to use 4-5 coats so he must have been a great teacher,i think ill stick to how i do it.

650gs

Better to read the manufacturers instructions on the paint tin ?????????

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

I knew that because no architect or project manager worth their salt would sign off on sealing plaster in any building. You should have a word with your builder because using sand and cement plaster or gypsum in an old house is not recommended

There were some parts of plaster that were falling away from the wall,mainly the entire staircase and landing area.All the old plaster was hacked away to reveal bare brick wall.

Then the walls were slabbed out with mushrooming and also bonding the boards to the walls.

These boards were then skimmed over.

The rooms that had good original plaster were sealed with a green and blue thislebond solution that had some sort of sand/grit in it,this was left to dry in and then these rooms were replastered.

Its all dried out now and its looks great,everything is so smooth and neat.

It all just needs to be painted now.

Paul.C

650gs wrote: »

If you polybond and there is any dampness even a small spot you will seal it in and it will bilster later 100%

If there is dampness then sealed or not it will have to be corrected so again no gain no loss

Paul.C

michael999999 wrote: »

Ya in your previous post you stated you needed to use 4-5 coats so he must have been a great teacher,i think ill stick to how i do it.

Work away, Im not saying your wrong... I never did, Im saying im not wrong and neither are the millions of painters out there that do the same. I have never seen a bad result from this, so please explain to me why its the wrong way of doing it? Are the walls gonna fall down, at worst the paint can chip back to the plaster but thats only if you mix it to thick

brendankelly

The job is done so there is no point discussing it farther. In my opinion and I am sorry to say this, your builder and Paul C seem to be of the same mind set. I.E. if it stays up long enough for them to cash their cheques it is fine.

irelandspurs

DON'T USE POLYBOND. Polybond will seal the plaster alright but the paint will take many coats to cover the polybond,all that is needed is thinned down matt emulsion and it doesn't need to be thinned alot.

paddy147

brendankelly wrote: »

The job is done so there is no point discussing it farther. In my opinion and I am sorry to say this, your builder and Paul C seem to be of the same mind set. I.E. if it stays up long enough for them to cash their cheques it is fine.

Brendan,sorry to say this,but........

..........WTF are you on about my builder for????

This has absolutely nothing to do with him or my own house.

I allready stated (in a previous post) that my own house is built and finished and this is a different house/2nd house (mid 1940s) that was replastered by a PLASTERER and nothing to do with my builder.

So why bring my builder into this matter?????


Why you are commenting on my builder is beyond me and its a pointless comment to make too.

michael999999

Some people just dont want to be helped!

paddy147

michael999999 wrote: »

Some people just dont want to be helped!

And some people just presume,but dont actually read what was posted.

brendankelly

Thanks michael. Snapped at me just because I tried to help


I assumed it was some one that called themselves a builder when it was not an arct or project manager that authorised mushrooming plasterboard to bricks and sealed up the original lime plaster.

And me after turning on my pc expecting a heap of praise for advising him not to put polly bond on the few bits of plaster that might still be breathable.

michael999999

brendankelly wrote: »

Thanks michael. Snapped at me just because I tried to help


I assumed it was some one that called themselves a builder when it was not an arct or project manager that authorised mushrooming plasterboard to bricks and sealed up the original lime plaster.

And me after turning on my pc expecting a heap of praise for advising him not to put polly bond on the few bits of plaster that might still be breathable.

Like yourself Brendan, Im just a fully qualified painter,who was foreman for one of the biggest painting contractors in munster. What the hell would i know about painting!