What exactly is needed for a gun to take 11.1 V lipo?

The One Who Knocks

Hey guys,

so I'm going for the G&P M4 RAS II (Long) and it says it can take something like 7.4V LIPO (actually im not too sure) anyways, im just wondering what parts need to be upgraded for it to not self-destroy when using 11.1V Lipo (I'm hopeless at internals)

it works out at something like €240 ($345) and with a budget of €400 I have a bit of room for upgrades

*do i need a MOSFET?
*will this do?
*is the gearbox durable enough?
*should i get a better gearbox?
*better motor?
*Can it take madbull python II percision barrel?
*when can i find a metal Crane stock (that'll still hold the bats)
*should i get improved hop-up system (link please)
*where can i find a metal pistol grip
*metal silencer & tripod advice & links
*Anything else?


Other:

Madbull powder shot foam grenade

any good?
Better than thunder b
re-usability factor?

Supercell ASC7 claymore

me likey likey this
any1 got any experience with it

thanks guys
appreciate it

ps. when replying please source the accessories in either ehobbyasia or one of my local shops such as mia, eirsoft, or airsofteire

thanks again

TNTQ

Sorry to burst your bubble mate but the AEG will cost you approx E371 to land - that is if you ever get it at all as its 390fps standard.

People never factor in the Carriage, VAT, Duty and possible courier Handling Fee. The price you see is the price you get when you walk off the street in Hong Kong and hand over your money.

I think its about the 200th time i've had to post something along those lines...sorry mate

The One Who Knocks

hmm right, ok, say around the 600 mark at tops i really cant afford more ATM
or else, if u can source the gun in ireland?

Firekitten

g&p firing 390 standard?


Try 290 ...


Have you even considered that a g&p rifle with an m120 motor, does the rate of fire, and trigger response of a 11.1 lipo on a 7.4 volt lipo? and can HANDLE it ?

My g&p xm16 does 23 rounds per second on a 7.4 lipo (actually too fast for me to like) and has zero trigger lag. What do you need over that?


as for barrel.. yes it will take it standard, and the g&p hop unit is fine...


Metal pistol grip and metal crane stock? They dont exist, anywhere. The real gun has plastic ones.


tripod? hope you mean bipod :P

Not to be rude, but you seem to be demanding a lot of people do the legwork for you. Do a little research on line. Read forums, read reviews, and see whats best. if you came at us with 'i found this, is it any good? or is this better? people would be far more inclined to help. Your post seems to be one big 'i want this stuff, do all the work for me'.

TNTQ

Firekitten wrote: »

g&p firing 390 standard?

Just went by the spec on Ehobby....prob shouldnt have :pac:

With regard to 11.1v lipo - in Ireland there is actually zero need for it. 11.1v lipo is handy when you've a high torque set up kicking out serious fps and you want rate of fire.

We've gone down the road of making all of our custom AEGs suitable for High C rated 7.4v Lipo batterys (especially 30-40c 1600MAH). Coupled with deans connectors and decent wiring (and a mosfet if needed) we can push them out to 25-30 bbs per second.

Firekitten

G&P pop all thier aegs out at 290, 390 is probs a typo on that site. (G&P sell in japan)

the m120 puts out stupid rate, so the voltage is overkill. I agree on the 7.4 high C idea. Its what I use. Love it tbh.

Blazer

Firekitten wrote: »

G&P pop all thier aegs out at 290, 390 is probs a typo on that site. (G&P sell in japan)

the m120 puts out stupid rate, so the voltage is overkill. I agree on the 7.4 high C idea. Its what I use. Love it tbh.

I think that 290 is with a .25g bb firekitten. I know some of those ehobby fps ratings are done with different weights.
I've gotten a couple of G&P's which were 350fps before being downgraded.

Firekitten

My g&ps have all been 290 with a .20, so I tend to agree with the 'general' accepted rule is g&p ar15s are aroun 290ish. Im sure some may be over, but not what ive seen.

Blazer

Firekitten wrote: »

My g&ps have all been 290 with a .20, so I tend to agree with the 'general' accepted rule is g&p ar15s are aroun 290ish. Im sure some may be over, but not what ive seen.

ah right...their M4's are generally 350fps

The One Who Knocks

Firekitten wrote: »

tripod? hope you mean bipod :P

Not to be rude, but you seem to be demanding a lot of people do the legwork for you. Do a little research on line. Read forums, read reviews, and see whats best. if you came at us with 'i found this, is it any good? or is this better? people would be far more inclined to help. Your post seems to be one big 'i want this stuff, do all the work for me'.

yup it was a mistype

and sorry about that, im kinda in a hurry and absolutely clueless when it comes to internals :?

Firekitten

Sc@recrow wrote: »

ah right...their M4's are generally 350fps

Odd, *shrug*perhaps theres more variance than I thought.

Jamez735 wrote: »

yup it was a mistype

and sorry about that, im kinda in a hurry and absolutely clueless when it comes to internals :?

Then you dont need an 11.1v lipo. A normal nimh 9.6 battery will do you just fine for a while, once you know more, look at 7.4 lipos (roughly the same equivalent) then if you REALLY cant stand seeing gaps in your bb stream, go for an 11.1.

If you want a g&p, get one from an Irish retailer, it will be at under 1j, and fine. You wont need to upgrade it for a while to be honest. Great guns.

The One Who Knocks

Firekitten wrote: »

Odd, *shrug*perhaps theres more variance than I thought.

Then you dont need an 11.1v lipo. A normal nimh 9.6 battery will do you just fine for a while, once you know more, look at 7.4 lipos (roughly the same equivalent) then if you REALLY cant stand seeing gaps in your bb stream, go for an 11.1.

If you want a g&p, get one from an Irish retailer, it will be at under 1j, and fine. You wont need to upgrade it for a while to be honest. Great guns.

right, so if i do decide to go down the road of the 11.1 my gun is "Well Able" to handle it? right?

ok as for upgrades, i was gonna just buy a high ender and save me the hassle, but i decided to get this "decent" one and kit it out, so i was looking to get everything from ehobbyasia in one go (saving me from spending months searching ireland for the parts & accesories)

as for the fps, is the 1 joule limit in regards to a 0.2 projectile specifically?
if not, i could just use a .25/.28 and drop the fps below the legal limit

because i was considering getting my local retailer to import it in for me (they could downgrade & give cert)

thanks again,

bullets

Jamez735 wrote: »

right, so if i do decide to go down the road of the 11.1 my gun is "Well Able" to handle it? right?

ok as for upgrades, i was gonna just buy a high ender and save me the hassle, but i decided to get this "decent" one and kit it out, so i was looking to get everything from ehobbyasia in one go (saving me from spending months searching ireland for the parts & accesories)

as for the fps, is the 1 joule limit in regards to a 0.2 projectile specifically?
if not, i could just use a .25/.28 and drop the fps below the legal limit

because i was considering getting my local retailer to import it in for me (they could downgrade & give cert)

thanks again,

Hi m8, I reckon your probably worrying about too many things at once.
If you just buy the gun and battery, face protection and a few BB's first worry about the rest
later. (and comfortable Foot wear if your going to go skirmishing)
[EDIT: Sorry it just occurred to me you may not be starting out as you've posts
going back 6months so you may already have the other stuff and are only looking for a new gun]

You can always sell/trade the gun to a friend or on here, or upgrade it later or buy a better gun later
on and still add bells and whistles onto rails and change out gears/hopup's/barrells etc in your own time.
Once you start to get a feel for parts and brands etc.

A nice 9.6v Nimh with a set of deans connectors on it I reckon is
grand I use these ones, plain jane, nice and simple, easy to look after.
http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/body_8vp1600afp-h.html

If you go down the Lipo route, you have to take care of the battery,
be careful when charging them, there is cell balancing, As far as I know
you should not drain them completely, if one cell is not balanced you may end up charging cells separately??
seems a whole lot of Fuss! when the BB will still come out the end of yer barrel with the Nimh


Also if you want some insane rate of fire, your magazines could run dry in the middle of a skirmish if you
go "happy go lucky" spreading walls of plastic everywhere. You will end up using an awful lot off BB's
and even though they look cheap they tend to add up.
Some people may only use 2-3000 BB's in a day, others 5000, if your going through 10,000 BB's a Day
it will get pricey, Say you pay 20-25 Euros for a day Skirmishing and another 30 Euros spent on BB's and you
go start skirmishing every week after liking it, the money starts to add up!


1j is power/energy that wont chage by swapping out different weights of BB's there is an explanation in one of the forum stickys.
A very common misconception (I've been there myself) is sticking
a heavier BB into the gun will drop the FPS below the limits.
The Limit is not the FPS the Limit is the Energy.
But the power of the Gun remains the same, even of the FPS drops.
As an example this below pic you will see the 1J stays the same while
the FPS varies due to different weights of BB's so regardless
of your FPS its still 1j


An Irish Retailer in Theory need themselves to import the Guns under 1j of power. Its not one Law for them and another for the rest of us!!
(Although personally I would love to see Retailers if retailer licenses come into play be allowed to do this all above board!)

Once nice little addition to an AEG is a Burst Wizard.
For someone starting out that may not be familiar with taking a gun apart
and modifying it, this little thing just straps onto your battery and you can use it on any gun you want. (some of the Irish retailers sell these)
http://www.aegwizard.com/AEG_Burst_Wizard.html

~B

Blazer

bullets wrote: »

Once nice little addition to an AEG is a Burst Wizard.
For someone starting out that may not be familiar with taking a gun apart
and modifying it, this little thing just straps onto your battery and you can use it on any gun you want. (some of the Irish retailers sell these)
http://www.aegwizard.com/AEG_Burst_Wizard.html

~B

they any good? I'm looking for something easy like this that stops me from taking apart my AEG
And will it fit into the magpul PTS stock tube with a lipo as well?

Firekitten

No, it wont take 11.1, it will need some upgrades. No gun can take it stock. It will handle what you need. And frankly, you dont NEED 11.1. the motor in the g&p and a 9.6 volt battery will see you getting a good rate of fire, and low trigger lag. You seriously dont need an 11.1v battery. its STUPID rate of fire.

Upgrades... you dont really need any beyond hop and barrel if you fancy it. But id play with the gun first, and see. the hop and barrel parts are easily found in Ireland. And have a little heart for the economy and buy irish :P

Fps... 1j = 328fps, = legal limit with a .2. yes, specifically. no, usuing higher weight for 328 with a .43, is going to be 500ish with a .2



My advice, is to get the gun, dont buy upgrades, or anything fancy, and just play with it. See what you think, what it lacks. And then come back and ask us for advice. a g&p will last you ages, and can be upgraded easily, and is a tough reliable gun. Get it, play with it, and then think a bout all this extra crap. I understand you're keen, but we've all been there. One step at a time.

bullets

Sc@recrow wrote: »

they any good? I'm looking for something easy like this that stops me from taking apart my AEG
And will it fit into the magpul PTS stock tube with a lipo as well?

(Dunno about fitting with regards to battery and stock tube if you've space for a fuse in line you've space for one of these)
Yep they work finest only If your AEG does not already have a mosfet installed.
Tony in mwairsoft had some (I found out only after ordering mine direct)
on my G&G F2000 it fires 3 shot bang on per trigger squeeze on auto, hold the trigger it fires full auto. (all can be adjusted with the POT) active braking too and snappy trigger response. and can be programmed via trigger pulls/pot adjustment and the order you connect it for various things. pretty cool for
a 40 Euro upgrade. After I rebuilt my SA58-OSW gearbox I've found with a 9.6v battery it fires 4 rounds instead of 3 when I tried it with the default settings. Also on my girlfriends m4 stubby that already has a mosfet attaching the burst wizard causes havoc and a "computer says no" situation. All in all lovely purchase that you can use on several different AEG's since the device is removable!!! 3 round bust may help those poor sorry sods that love to fire on full auto Alllllll of the time to learn a little about control.


~B

TNTQ

Firekitten wrote: »

No, it wont take 11.1, it will need some upgrades. No gun can take it stock.

VFC can:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVkFAwJVOE8

Firekitten wrote: »

the motor, gear ratio, ball bearings, short stoke piston (not sure if they still do it) in the g&p and a 9.6 volt battery will see you getting a good rate of fire, and low trigger lag

Agree on that, but please remember, to run at specific settings. Call them factory defaults. As much as manufacturer anticipates their product to run at higher power, as far as I'm concern no manufacturer (except Japan) test their AEGs using <1j settings. Once you downgrade the AEG, lower its power. You might face serious issue with timing.

Firekitten

TNTQ wrote: »

VFC can:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVkFAwJVOE8

Agree on that, but please remember, to run at specific settings. Call them factory defaults. As much as manufacturer anticipates their product to run at higher power, as far as I'm concern no manufacturer (except Japan) test their AEGs using <1j settings. Once you downgrade the AEG, lower its power. You might face serious issue with timing.

quite true, quite true. And as for not going into the horrific specifics of the gearbox for the sake of the op... meh, swamping people with information is pointless.

As for the 'default' settings, a point I agree with, 350 and 320 are so close that theres little problem with the ratio of the gears. The timing is pretty much fixed on any aeg. Its why when you reduce the fps, the rate of fire rises (to a cyclic maximum that the motor can handle). G&P operate out of hongkong, and do however do a massive ammount of business with Japanese customers, and a lot of thier aegs, destined for that market, run at sub 300, with the same parts. My xm16 of thiers was doing 290 in the uk... stock parts, and other than a bonkers rate of fire, it was absolutely fine.

End of the day, the airsoft gearbox was DESIGNED to run at 1j. Invented by TM, modified versions that g&p and vfc and others sell are simply using toughened material to work with the upgraded springs, and higher torque motors. G&P standard gears are pretty much identical to stock tm. Not high speed gearset, pretty average. the ratios and timing are identical, so it can perform at the exact same levels.
Example being in the uk... guns stock at 290, 300ish... to run at 350, people simply change the spring, and it performs exactly the same, for pretty much the same user lifetime as one left stock. Its not a significant enough power change to make a difference.

As for the vfc on a car battery... I've seen a CA m249 run on a 12volt truck battery.

As many of us have said, nearly ANY gun will run on an 11.1volt battery. how LONG, it continues running, is another matter.

it somewhat boils down the analogy of..... 'you CAN lick the plug socket, but it doesn't mean you should'

The One Who Knocks

ok , you guys are really killing me!
I understand that 11.1 V Lipo and m120 motor = Stupidly Insane ROF (what is it, around 30 bb's per second)

and im not the happy go lucky guy thats gonna waste 10k bb's in a day (actually im quite conserative, using less than 1500 on adverage)

I'm more so looking for the ability to shoot at what, 1800 rounds a minute, which doesnt mean that im actually going to use it at that crazy rof

in other words, bragging rights is what im after,

im just wondering WHAT upgrades are needed for it to take 11.1v upgrade, (im presuming reinforced gearbox & piston mainly right?)

as for upgrades, yh ur right, i think i'll just get python II barrel and upgraded hop-up (actually can any1 recommend a good hop-up unit?)

thanks,

CpcRc

Jamez735 wrote: »

(actually can any1 recommend a good hop-up unit?)

You already have an answer in one of the previous posts from Firekitten :

Firekitten wrote: »

the g&p hop unit is fine...

.

I bought a metal G&P hopup unit for my M4 and it's working great. So if you get a G&P the hopup unit should be fine as is, no need to spend money on a replacement.

I use a guarder clear hopup rubber and nub in mine and they do the job, I've heard good things about madbull hopup rubbers and nubs too.

A hopup rubber should only cost about €10-15, possibly a bit cheaper depending where you look. That should do you fine if you want to change anything with regards the hopup.

Gordy6040

TNTQ wrote: »

Just went by the spec on Ehobby....prob shouldnt have :pac:

With regard to 11.1v lipo - in Ireland there is actually zero need for it. 11.1v lipo is handy when you've a high torque set up kicking out serious fps and you want rate of fire.

We've gone down the road of making all of our custom AEGs suitable for High C rated 7.4v Lipo batterys (especially 30-40c 1600MAH). Coupled with deans connectors and decent wiring (and a mosfet if needed) we can push them out to 25-30 bbs per second.

Let me hi jack this thread for a sec, how much would it cost for a genius like your good self to convert an aeg with a tamyia connector to deans, and say 1 or 2 batterys as well. you can PM me if you dont want to publish the price . Tks

Gordy6040

Jamez735 wrote: »

yup it was a mistype

and sorry about that, im kinda in a hurry and absolutely clueless when it comes to internals :?

Hey dude, dont worry, i'm also clueless about internals, dont really care mutch about them either way as well to be honest. once i pull the trigger and i get the response i need thats really all i want. By the way, the guys are right. 11v lipo is over kill. I've done a fair bit of clay pigeon shooting and while its completely different to airsoft it does teach you to think about your shot. Eg. how to lead into a shot . fire ahead of a moving target. take distance and windage into account etc. Any decent AEG will make you competitive on the field of play. You dont need a to take a spray and pray approach that the big lipo offers. I'd suggest you have a think about your style of play, and how to improve your skills before you invest too heavily in the AEG.

horgan_p

TNTQ wrote: »

Once you downgrade the AEG, lower its power. You might face serious issue with timing.

QFT , ask Puding sometime about a King Arms M7 we got in for someone (they ship with 11.1v lipos)
Took us 3 weeks to twig what was happening.
Then the customer refused to use a (free) 7.4 volt lipo. There are days when I'm glad I'm not in retail anymore.....

Firekitten

Jamez735 wrote: »

I'm more so looking for the ability to shoot at what, 1800 rounds a minute, which doesnt mean that im actually going to use it at that crazy rof

in other words, bragging rights is what im after,

im just wondering WHAT upgrades are needed for it to take 11.1v upgrade, (im presuming reinforced gearbox & piston mainly right?)

as for upgrades, yh ur right, i think i'll just get python II barrel and upgraded hop-up (actually can any1 recommend a good hop-up unit?)

thanks,

1800 rounds per minute? are you having a giraffe?

bragging rights?

Bragging?


I hereby retract any further advice from this thread. There's clearly no point offering you any, because you want to do what you want to do...



One word of warning though. You put an 11.1v lipo through a g&p box and motor, already designed to be high speed on an 8.4v nimh. Its going to go bang, spectacularly.


if you want bragging rights, hit the targets you aim at, and be a good honourable player.
Having a stupid rate of fire gun, to say you have it, is roughly the equivalent of (excuse my bluntness) having a bottle of viagra pills, just to say you can go at it for 10 hours.
It's not going to make a blind bit of difference if a lady won't look at you twice.

Either way, you're left holding your ego in your hand, all alone.

The One Who Knocks

Firekitten wrote: »

One word of warning though. You put an 11.1v lipo through a g&p box and motor, already designed to be high speed on an 8.4v nimh. Its going to go bang, spectacularly.

ok finally, progress! "go bang"
what do i need to stop it from going bang?

Witcher

Jamez735 wrote: »

ok finally, progress! "go bang"
what do i need to stop it from going bang?

A 7.4v lipo.

Lemming

Jamez735 wrote: »

ok finally, progress! "go bang"
what do i need to stop it from going bang?

Blay wrote: »

A 7.4v lipo.

Possibly a clue as well.

Firekitten

Jamez735 wrote: »

ok finally, progress! "go bang"
what do i need to stop it from going bang?

You missed the part where I said im done giving you advice if all you want is to brag about the size of your airsoft penis.

Inari

@Jamez735: I'm not being smart here, but people in this thread have been trying to help you - yes, they have not exactly answered your question, but it has been touched upon.

Firekitten's point is crucial; gearboxes have been designed for specific uses by the manufacturer. As such if you want to go the 11.1v lipo route, you should be designing your own gearbox effectively. You'd need to look into what ratio gear-sets work best, what angle of engagement is best for the piston, whether to use a light/heavy piston, full metal, half metal, all plastic etc - bore up, non-bore up, what strength spring, what gauge wiring, what motor, what trigger switch, what MOSFET etc.

OR...you can slap in an 11.1 and see what happens. Personally speaking, I am a trigger-response whore...so if I ever get round to hunting for perfection, I will go down the 11.1v lipo route...and I will be building the gearbox from scratch so that I know exactly what's in it, what is the strong/weak points...why? So I can predict failure. G&P's point of failure is usually the piston...this is a designed weak link so that it saves the rest of the gearbox...but if you're a ROF whore, you use a full metal piston which means in the event of a failure...bye bye gears + Piston, and possibly pinion gear (poor motor )

Leftyflip

Don't think this was mentioned.

The correct attitude.
It's all well and good totally upgrading a gun to be able to use an 11.1V lipo and such, but if you have a stupid attitude towards it - such as " OMGZ!!! I see someone!!11!! *BRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP*", you won't be entertained long at a site for overkill (dangerous play), it only takes one BB to hit someone, not 30...

The 11.1V route is one that many go down for trigger response alone. Not for getting 30 bbs down range in a second.

I can make a JG G36 take an 11.1V if I want, it's all about the right attitude and trigger disipline.

Question: Do you have the right attitude towards this?
If yes - go ahead.
If no - get the attitude down first.

THE MINDER

Firstly G+P stock guns from Hong Kong shoot between 350-390fps FACT
Firstly you have to hope it gets through customs-if you are lucky enough that it does it will have to be downgraded-Add that to the afformentioned costs.

If you combine a G+P gearset/M120 motor with an 11.1 lipo you will in all likelyhood snap the shaft on either the spur or sector gear or both!More costs and on and on.....

My advise -MAKE A NEW PLAN:)