Prayers of the faithful used in Church Service

nickkinneg

Hi there
just a question, I am not muslim but my sister has married a muslim man and I have met him and he seems a lovely fellow. They married in England but are having a church blessing in a catholic church in Ireland. My sister has asked my partner/girlfriend to write some prayers of the faithful for the church service and my partner wishes to include some prayers of the faithful that include/make reference to the muslim faith so as my brother in law is not excluded, if that makes any sense (I probably could have worded this post better) neither of us no anything about islam
or what could be used/suitable with regard to marraige? Can anyone give me some help - possible islamic quotes that would be suitable/can be used in the context of a church service? Thanks

irishconvert

Hi,

Some nice quotes from the Qur'an on marriage, perhaps your partner can use or draw some inspiration from them:

http://www.jannah.org/sisters/weddinginislam.html

Donatello

I remember reading recently that other so-called 'sacred books' may not be read during the Catholic Mass, during which only the Bible may be used. I haven't got the reference right now. I'll take a look online to see if I can find the reference, but I'm pretty sure that is is not permitted to read from the Koran in the Catholic Church. Seems kind-of obvious, right?

EDIT: I can't find anything about this online, but I'm quite sure the Koran may not be read in the Catholic Church. If in doubt, you might ask the diocesan bishop.

Donatello

I found this from the GIRM of the Roman Missal. The principals would apply regardless of what is happening in the Catholic Church, be it a prayer service, blessings, Mass - whatever:

[61.] In selecting the biblical readings for proclamation in the celebration of Mass, the norms found in the liturgical books are to be followed,136 so that indeed "a richer table of the Word of God will be prepared for the faithful, and the biblical treasures opened up for them".137

[62.] It is also illicit to omit or to substitute the prescribed biblical readings on one's own initiative, and especially "to substitute other, non-biblical texts for the readings and responsorial Psalm, which contain the word of God".138

It would be a serious abuse to have Koran readings in the Catholic Church.

ISAW

Donatello wrote: »

I found this from the GIRM of the Roman Missal. The principals would apply regardless of what is happening in the Catholic Church, be it a prayer service, blessings, Mass - whatever:



It would be a serious abuse to have Koran readings in the Catholic Church.

I don't think so. The mistake you seem to be making is "regardless of what is happening in the Catholic Church, be it a prayer service, blessings, Mass - whatever". That isn't the case.


I'd have to look up the canons but you may be aware Catholics have A B and C years. There are readings for year A B and C for Sundays and holy Days and there is also a two year cycle for weekdays

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectionary

Given your "blessing service" is NOT a Mass then the rule does not seem to refer to it. I would think it refers to not substituting other readings for lectionary ones.

On a related note for example a catholic could marry a Church of Ireland member and there be a wedding Mass with a CoI minister present but the Mass would not be concelibrated.
I think you really should contact the local Priest doing the service and not rely on boards.ie

Donatello

ISAW wrote: »

I don't think so. The mistake you seem to be making is "regardless of what is happening in the Catholic Church, be it a prayer service, blessings, Mass - whatever". That isn't the case.


I'd have to look up the canons but you may be aware Catholics have A B and C years. There are readings for year A B and C for Sundays and holy Days and there is also a two year cycle for weekdays

Given your "blessing service" is NOT a Mass then the rule does not seem to refer to it. I would think it refers to not substituting other readings for lectionary ones.

On a related note for example a catholic could marry a Church of Ireland member and there be a wedding Mass with a CoI minister present but the Mass would not be concelibrated.
I think you really should contact the local Priest doing the service and not rely on boards.ie

It's not in 'the Canons'. Canon Law does not address liturgical issues. They are addressed in the GIRM mainly, and in other documents issued by the Church.

I think there is a big difference between the Church approved 3 year cycle of Gospel readings and the use of a non-Catholic religious text.

If I were the OP and had any doubts, I would ask the local bishop. Many priests are not reliable and are not in a position to offer a correct answer to such a question. Many are under pressure to acquiesce to various demands in order to please people rather than desiring to do what the Church does.

How about having a blessing in a Catholic Church using the approved Catholic Rite featuring Catholic Scriptures and prayers, and then having an Islamic service in an Islamic setting? Or maybe the other half might be OK with having Gospel readings in an Islamic setting?

The authoritative documents of the Church are very clear in that only approved readings are to be used for the liturgical rites. The Rite of Marriage includes the ceremony Rite for Celebrating Marriage Between a Catholic and an Unbaptized Person.

I think it is offensive and inappropriate to propose reading the Koran in a Catholic Church, the very place where the Incarnate Son of God resides in His Eucharistic Presence in the tabernacle, from a book of a religion which denies His divinity. It is syncretism of perhaps the worst kind.

hivizman

I note that the original poster mentioned that his sister is already married, and is simply seeking a church blessing in a Catholic church in Ireland. So the Rite for Celebrating Marriage Between a Catholic and an Unbaptized Person would surely not be relevant.

Although I come from an Anglican position, I agree with Donatello that it would be inappropriate for there to be a reading of a passage from the Qur'an as part of a religious service in a Christian church (unless, perhaps, it was an ecumenical service).

However, the original poster was exploring whether there are any verses from the Qur'an or from the sayings of Muhammad that could be incorporated in a prayer, and irishconvert kindly provided a link to a document containing several such verses and sayings. Would it really be impossible for words attributed to Muhammad that express sentiments that any Catholic would endorse to be included in a prayer at a service of blessing?

Actually, I'm surprised that the OP's Muslim brother-in-law is willing to participate in a service that will certainly contradict Islam by recognising and proclaiming the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Donatello

hivizman wrote: »

Although I come from an Anglican position, I agree with Donatello that it would be inappropriate for there to be a reading of a passage from the Qur'an as part of a religious service in a Christian church (unless, perhaps, it was an ecumenical service).

Actually, I'm surprised that the OP's Muslim brother-in-law is willing to participate in a service that will certainly contradict Islam by recognising and proclaiming the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Ecumenism refers to the efforts to bring about Christian unity, understood in the Catholic Tradition as having all Christians in communion with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope. To this end, sometimes Catholics do pray with non-Catholic Christians. Inter-religious dialogue is the effort by which different religions seek to understand more about the others in the pursuit of world peace. It would not entail Islamic prayers in a Catholic church, nor vice versa. That's syncretism, and it does nobody any favours.

hivizman

Donatello wrote: »

Ecumenism refers to the efforts to bring about Christian unity, understood in the Catholic Tradition as having all Christians in communion with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope. To this end, sometimes Catholics do pray with non-Catholic Christians. Inter-religious dialogue is the effort by which different religions seek to understand more about the others in the pursuit of world peace. It would not entail Islamic prayers in a Catholic church, nor vice versa. That's syncretism, and it does nobody any favours.

Yes, Donatello, you are correct in distinguishing "ecumenical", which refers to initiatives towards greater cooperation or even unity among Christian denominations, and "inter-religious" or "inter-faith", which aims at greater cooperation among those of different religions.

Thanks for pointing this out.

ISAW

Donatello wrote: »

I think it is offensive and inappropriate to propose reading the Koran in a Catholic Church, the very place where the Incarnate Son of God resides in His Eucharistic Presence in the tabernacle, from a book of a religion which denies His divinity. It is syncretism of perhaps the worst kind.

Carl Sagan was an agnostic but I think reading "Pale Blue dot" in a church would not be offensive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot

From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

irishconvert

Donatello, if the girl is marrying a Muslim man, which is against her religion, I don't think she is going to be to be too worried about the tehnical details of what prayers are and are not allowed in church.

ISAW

irishconvert wrote: »

Donatello, if the girl is marrying a Muslim man, which is against her religion

as far as I know A Muslim man is allowed by Islam to marry from certain groups of but not all Christian women, but a Christian man is never permitted by Islam to marry a Muslim woman.

irishconvert

ISAW wrote: »

as far as I know A Muslim man is allowed by Islam to marry from certain groups of but not all Christian women, but a Christian man is never permitted by Islam to marry a Muslim woman.

The OP's sister is a Catholic, my point is that she is not allowed to marry a non-Catholic according to the rules of her religion. If she is ignoring this rule, she is hardly going to be worried about non-Biblical prayers being read in the chruch. Perhaps the OP can clarify.

hivizman

irishconvert wrote: »

The OP's sister is a Catholic, my point is that she is not allowed to marry a non-Catholic according to the rules of her religion. If she is ignoring this rule, she is hardly going to be worried about non-Biblical prayers being read in the church. Perhaps the OP can clarify.

I think that "not allowed" may be a little too strong, given that the Roman Catholic Church actually has a Rite for Celebrating Marriage Between a Catholic and an Unbaptized Person, as Donatello pointed out in an earlier post (and a Muslim would normally be an "unbaptized person" - but would this rite be available for someone who had been baptized but subsequently converted to Islam?). If I'm not stretching things too far, this marriage would be the RC equivalent of makruh but not the RC equivalent of haram.

Of course, the OP is talking about prayers at a blessing, not a marriage ceremony, and I am sure that there are prayers that would not be offensive to the religious beliefs of either Muslims or Roman Catholics.

But there's probably a lot of background detail here that we don't know.

Donatello

irishconvert wrote: »

Donatello, if the girl is marrying a Muslim man, which is against her religion, I don't think she is going to be to be too worried about the tehnical details of what prayers are and are not allowed in church.

But faithful Catholics are concerned about what happens in the Church. So should the priest. And the bishop.

But the modern trend seems to be to ignore the teachings and discipline of the Church in order to please the world. Ah well.

ISAW

irishconvert wrote: »

The OP's sister is a Catholic, my point is that she is not allowed to marry a non-Catholic according to the rules of her religion.

It is kind of different to Islam. Are Muslim women are allowed to marry non Muslims and still
be considered to be Muslim women? as far as i know they aren't.

If you are arguing about what Christians believe then address this "marriage" topic to the Christianity forum. since you raise the subject of marriage in the Islamic forum I was just clarifying whether the "rule" you raise applies in Islam as well i.e. that a woman can't marry outside their faith?


One has to distinguish between the rules of the Church and the rules of the state. Religion and the State are separate things.
According to the state there may be a legal marriage. Catholics however regard the "sacrament" of marriage as separate from the legal marriage.
If she was not married in a Church under a Marriage Rite then she is not married according to the Church. a "blessing" is not a marriage.
It would appear that normally the marriage rite is performed within a Mass but it is not necessary to have the Mass in order to have the Rite.

If she is ignoring this rule, she is hardly going to be worried about non-Biblical prayers being read in the church. Perhaps the OP can clarify.

It isn't a case of her ignoring the rule. In order for a marriage to be performed legally it requires witlessness and a legal officer etc.

In order for it to be considered a marriage i.e. the sacrament of marriage by the Catholic church, certain other things have to happen. If these have not happened ( and they have not it appears) then she is not married according to the Church although she is legally married.

One could also argue that a marriage could exist without the rite just as baptism can exist without the rite but that would be in very exceptional circumstances.

oceanclub

irishconvert wrote: »

The OP's sister is a Catholic, my point is that she is not allowed to marry a non-Catholic according to the rules of her religion.

Catholics _are_ allowed to marry non-Catholics:

http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml

In addition to meeting the criteria for a valid Catholic marriage (see question #3), the Catholic must seek permission from the local bishop to marry a non-Catholic. If the person is a non-Catholic Christian, this permission is called a "permission to enter into a mixed marriage." If the person is a non-Christian, the permission is called a "dispensation from disparity of cult." Those helping to prepare the couple for marriage can assist with the permission process.

To be honest, I've never heard of the bishop having to be approached; I presume what happens normally is that the relevant priest simply informs the bishop (I could be wrong here, but I know of a number of Catholics in Malaysia who married non-Catholics, mainly Buddhists).

P.

ISAW

oceanclub wrote: »

Catholics _are_ allowed to marry non-Catholics:

http://www.usccb.org/laity/marriage/marriagefaqs.shtml



To be honest, I've never heard of the bishop having to be approached; I presume what happens normally is that the relevant priest simply informs the bishop (I could be wrong here, but I know of a number of Catholics in Malaysia who married non-Catholics, mainly Buddhists).

P.

So there is a difference. Catholics are not forbidden (by Christianity) from marrying non Catholics but Muslims are forbidden (by Islam) from marrying non Muslims?

x0l0x

ISAW wrote: »

So there is a difference. Catholics are not forbidden (by Christianity) from marrying non Catholics but Muslims are forbidden (by Islam) from marrying non Muslims?

Hello ISAW,

Muslims can marry either Christian or Jewish as they are considered believers.
Muslims can not marry any one who is not a believer.

Below is the part of Quran that explain that:
===========================
And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men [to your women] until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite [you] to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember. (221)
==========================

I hope I have answered your question.

ISAW

x0l0x wrote: »

Hello ISAW,

Muslims can marry either Christian or Jewish as they are considered believers.
Muslims can not marry any one who is not a believer.

I hope I have answered your question.

So you are saying a Muslim woman can marry a Christian man?
I though according to Islam a Muslim woman can not marry a man who is not Muslim even if that man believes in God.

Is that incorrect on my part?

hivizman

ISAW wrote: »

So you are saying a Muslim woman can marry a Christian man?
I though according to Islam a Muslim woman can not marry a man who is not Muslim even if that man believes in God.

Is that incorrect on my part?

There is some variation of opinion on this issue, but the majority view is as follows:

A Muslim man may marry a non-Muslim woman from the "People of the Book" - usually understood as Christians and Jews. However, the woman must be practising her religion, and children of the marriage must be brought up as Muslims.

On the other hand, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man. This is because the husband is considered to be responsible for his wife and, in return, the wife should obey her husband. But what would happen if a non-Muslim husband prohibited his Muslim wife from carrying out her religious duties, such as the five daily prayers? Although the duty of prayer would have precedence in this case, this would mean that the Muslim wife and the non-Muslim husband would be in conflict, and hence the marriage would not be stable. To avoid this risk, Muslim women may marry only Muslim men.

The verse quoted by x0l0x in an earlier post is Surat al-Baqarah 2:221. This needs to be interpreted carefully. The verse uses the words mush'rikaat and mush'rikeen for female and male polytheists respectively, and this word almost always implies the polytheistic Arabs who had not yet embraced Islam at the time of revelation, rather than the "People of the Book". On the other hand, the word translated as "they believe" is a form of the verb 'amana, which normally implies belief in Islam. So it provides only weak support for the idea of "mixed marriages".

x0l0x

ISAW wrote: »

So you are saying a Muslim woman can marry a Christian man?
I though according to Islam a Muslim woman can not marry a man who is not Muslim even if that man believes in God.

Is that incorrect on my part?

Hello ISAW,

I searched more in Quran and I didn't find anything that do not permit a Muslim woman to marry a Christian man as he is a believer. There is nothing said also from Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that prevent this marriage as far as I know.

However, many Muslim scientists didn't prefer that a Muslim woman marry a non Muslim man as he may prevent her from her worship and religion. This is only their ideas, but in Islam you should only get your rules from Quran or from the prophet sayings.

To be more clearer about Christians, they are considered in Quran that they are believers and they are those who were given the Scripture before, except in some situations they are considered unbelievers. It is more clearer from Quran itself as below:

==========================
They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent. (Surat al-Maidah 5:17)
==========================

and the below verses from Quran:
==========================
They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. (Surat al-Maidah 5:72)
They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (73)
So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (74)
The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded. (75)
Say, "Do you worship besides Allah that which holds for you no [power of] harm or benefit while it is Allah who is the Hearing, the Knowing?" (76)
==========================

So if a Christian believed that Jesus (PBUH) is God or he believed in the trinity, so he is considered to be unbeliever in Islam as he should believe that GOD is only one and no other God except God.

The below part of Quran (Surat al-Ikhlas - number 112) describe this:
===========================
Say, "He is Allah, [who is] One, (1) Allah, the Eternal Refuge. (2) He neither begets nor is born, (3) Nor is there to Him any equivalent." (4)
===========================

I hope that I have answered your question in a good way for the sake of Allah

Thank you.

oceanclub

hivizman wrote: »

On the other hand, a Muslim woman cannot marry a non-Muslim man.

Does this make Islam unique to other religions? I know other religions have rules about raising children, but not about forbidding inter-marriage altogether.
(Am open to contradiction here.)

P.

hivizman

oceanclub wrote: »

Does this make Islam unique to other religions? I know other religions have rules about raising children, but not about forbidding inter-marriage altogether.
(Am open to contradiction here.)

P.

The word "cannot" that I used is probably a bit strong - this implies that such marriages are actually prohibited. I don't think, though, that there is an explicit prohibition in the Qur'an or Sunnah, so a marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man is not, as I understand it, haram. It is, however, very strongly disliked.

"Marrying out" is something that a lot of religions try to resist, but this may be a cultural as much as a religious thing. In Judaism, given that the status of being a Jew is regarded by orthodox Jews as matrilineal (passed down through the mother), a Jewish woman marrying a non-Jewish man is perhaps slightly less disliked than a Jewish man marrying a non-Jewish woman.

In the USA, "marrying out" is often seen in racial or ethnic terms, and a recent report by the Pew Research Center suggests that around one in seven new marriages in the USA involve "intermarrying".

Manic Moran

Donatello wrote: »

But faithful Catholics are concerned about what happens in the Church. So should the priest. And the bishop.

I'm inclined to agree.

The purpose of a Catholic Blessing is, well, to give the blessing of the Catholic Church to make the Catholics happy, not to make the unbaptised feel better about themselves. By its very nature, it is a ceremony targetted for a very specific purpose to a very specific audience. And like most traditional ceremonies, there's an almost irrational desire to maintain within the tradition. Toleration of other religions need not mean incorporation into your own religious ceremonies.

I'm the product of a mixed-religion family (probably why I've turned into an aetheist). The whole family would go to both churches, and participate in the appropriate ceremonies of the 'other' church. Not so much because we believed, but just to show respect to the beliefs of other people. Would you see a muslim suggest to an imam that at an islamic service that the non-muslims be allowed keep their shoes on as a nice gesture? It would probably go over like a brick. By attending the 'foreign' ritual, there should be no expectations of a concession.

That said, I understand that it is your desire to make a gesture to the B-I-L, not that he has any expectations. It should be fairly easy to find some Biblical references which are compatible with Koranic teachings. If Jesus is considered a prophet in Islam, I can't imagine that the brother-in-law would feel put out by a reference to Jesus doing something pious, for example. If you manage to, at least, select readings which are not contradictory to the Koran, I think you'll have achieved your goal.

NTM

Donatello

The always excellent Michael Voris has a short clip here. Rather than posting it to offend any religion (Judaism or Islam), I mean to highlight the point Michael makes - that this kind of syncretism has the ultimate aim to level the religions so that they are all much the same, truth is relative, and - this is the important bit - sexual morality is relative. Thus it is not really in any sincere believer of any of the 3 religions interest to promote this sort of thing.

So Muslim Imams are now scheduled to preach from the Quran in Catholic parishes! Yep. You heard right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql7zkdviiOY

oceanclub

Donatello wrote: »

The always excellent Michael Voris has a short clip here. Rather than posting it to offend any religion (Judaism or Islam), I mean to highlight the point Michael makes - that this kind of syncretism has the ultimate aim to level the religions so that they are all much the same, truth is relative, and - this is the important bit - sexual morality is relative. Thus it is not really in any sincere believer of any of the 3 religions interest to promote this sort of thing.

So Muslim Imams are now scheduled to preach from the Quran in Catholic parishes! Yep. You heard right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql7zkdviiOY

I spent a few moments googling this fellow; I'd like those wasted minutes back. Can you explain why anyone would listen to an unhinged zealot who wants the US governed by a Catholic dictator?

http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

P.

Donatello

oceanclub wrote: »

I spent a few moments googling this fellow; I'd like those wasted minutes back. Can you explain why anyone would listen to an unhinged zealot who wants the US governed by a Catholic dictator?

http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

P.

Mr Norris, if you can't address my post, and the points raised in the video, then don't dig up irrelevant rabbit holes.

oceanclub

Donatello wrote: »

Mr Norris, if you can't address my post, and the points raised in the video, then don't dig up irrelevant rabbit holes.

Based on your logic, we should listen to Osama Bin Laden's views on ecumenicalism.

P.

TheReverend

Donatello wrote: »

Mr Norris, if you can't address my post, and the points raised in the video, then don't dig up irrelevant rabbit holes.

Donatello, the guy in that video is bat **** insane, why would anyone listen to points made by a right wing nut job?

gillherb

Hi all

It has been with great interest that I have read down through the various 'messages' in this thread. To clarify I am the person in question who asked her lovely brother's partner to write some prayers of the faithful.

To clarify

1. The service that is going to take place is called a con-validation service which after having been granted the required dispensation I am having the marriage to my wonderful muslim husband blessed as per the rules of my Catholic Religion. No this is not against the rules of my religion in any way shape or form as the required permission has been given by the bishop.
2. There are various things that must happen before that ceremony can take place the last of which is for me to take confession all the others have been done and the required documents signed and produced.
3. The liturgy of the word must come from the Bible and cannot come from other books, documents etc.
4. Later in the service 'appropriate' wording from the Koran, maybe something from Khalil Gibran can be used as a reflection
5. It is not against my husband's religion to marry me because as someone pointed out in one of the messsages as a Christian I am of the book and therefore a Muslim man may marry me.

I am not going to address the variety of other issues that were brought up under people's own agendas.

Love can bring us on wonderous journeys and my journey brought me to Egypt and to my husband. Like every marriage it will have its ups and downs there will be times because of cultural or religious reasons we will not agree with each other but by the Grace of God (the God that both Christians and Muslims believe in) and through honesty, respect and communication we will prevail.

God bless you and keep you all and whatever your beliefs be open to the miracles that God will provide you with

hivizman

gillherb wrote: »

Later in the service 'appropriate' wording from the Koran, maybe something from Khalil Gibran can be used as a reflection

Here is Khalil Gibran's famous reflection on marriage:

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when the white wings of death scatter your days.
Ay, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.

Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.

Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

gillherb wrote: »

God bless you and keep you all and whatever your beliefs be open to the miracles that God will provide you with.

In that spirit, the verse from Surat al-Rum (The Romans) 30:21 is very apt: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may find repose in them, and He has put between you affection and mercy. Verily, in that are indeed signs for a people who reflect."

gillherb

Thank you - we were possibly going to use the following section from Khalil Gibran's thoughts on 'Love'

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

hivizman

gillherb wrote: »

Thank you - we were possibly going to use the following section from Khalil Gibran's thoughts on 'Love'

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

Very good passage - this is quite popular in the UK at civil ceremonies as there is no specific reference to any deity (whereas the passage I quoted mentions God).