I think we got an apology!

Ald

As far as head of states can give apologies I think that was it!

Words used 'regrettable', things that 'could have been done differently or not at all' and offering sympathy too. And given that the PM was only 2 seats away. I think the British have gone out of their way to offering not only a hand of friendship but also mutual respect.

Starting as Gaeilge!

As somebody that isn't into Royalty and the British establishment I am very heartened and impressed!

Well done to the Queen of England.

Killer Pigeon

Is being a West Brit OK now? (therefore being removed from the politics forum charters' list of banned words)

omen80

I'm not slating what the queen said or anything and personally I think her speech was put very well, but for me there was no apology. The fact that we are unsure about this says it all.
Let's call a spade a spade, it was not an apology.

Buzz Buzz

If you only think we got one, then we didn't.

Ald

Definition of apology according to Wiktionary:

"An expression of remorse or regret for having said or done something that harmed another: an instance of apologizing (saying that one is sorry)."

racso1975

I dont honestly think their was ever going to be an apology/that she'd be allowed make one. I do however think she went as close to it as she possibly could and i'm thankful for that gesture.

dlofnep

Apology my hole. It was the weakest attempt at an apology I've ever seen.

Agonist

She was not free to give a full apology. Under the circumstances, she didn't flinch outlining the tragedy of all that's happened between us. I was delighted to hear her admitting regret for what they have done and didn't do. She went further than I expected her to. Fair play, ma'am.

rorymcgrory

Even if she did apologise, who cares? It has absolutely no effect on our lives.

KeithAFC

Now for some senior figures from the Republican movement to do the same and owe up to some awful deeds.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I thought paramilitaries had rights on the term "regrettable"

questionmark?

I thought both speeches were well put together. The whole point was too acknowledge the past admit things weren't right but as adults we have to move on. Also Mary mentioned the referendum that will happen in the north when enough of a majority are in favour. I am no Queen supporter and I dont agree with the principle of royal families any were in the world but this was the right thing to do and it was covered in the best way it could, in both speeches.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

Now for some senior figures from the Republican movement to do the same and owe up to some awful deeds.

Do what? Not apologise for 10 minutes?

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

Do what? Not apologise for 10 minutes?

Apologise for the awful things they did to the PUL/Ulster Scots.

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

Apologise for the awful things they did to the PUL/Ulster Scots.

The Queen didn't apologise. So, in doing the same as the Queen - they would spend 10 minutes not apologising. That is what you want?

No calls from you for loyalists to apologise I see either. How convenient.

sollar

She said some things should have been done differently or some not at all (or something to that effect). That was an acknowledgement of regret over the past.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

The Queen didn't apologise. So, in doing the same as the Queen - they would spend 10 minutes not apologising. That is what you want?

No calls from you for loyalists to apologise I see either. How convenient.

The Queen did apologise.

The Waltzing Consumer

Give it a rest dlofnep. Look up the definition of apology. :rolleyes:

dlofnep

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Queen did apologise.

No she did not. Not once did she utter the words "I am sorry."

omen80

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Queen did apologise.

No she didn't. I don't see why people were expecting an apology anyway. Why would she have to apologise?

The Waltzing Consumer

dlofnep wrote: »

No she did not. Not once did she utter the words "I am sorry."

:rolleyes: Someone throw a dictionary at him!

dlofnep

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Give it a rest dlofnep. Look up the definition of apology. :rolleyes:

She did not apologise. She said events were regrettable. But she did not personalise it by stating that she was sorry for Britain's actions in Ireland. Instead, it was one of 'mutual regret'. Doesn't cut it I'm afraid. It was a hollow attempt at an apology.

Killer Pigeon

Oxford English Dictionary definition of an apology;

A regretful acknowledgement of an offence or failure

http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0034400#m_en_gb0034400

Queen's Speech at Dublin Castle;

A Uachtaráin agus a chairde (President and friends). Prince Philip and I are delighted to be here, and to experience at first hand Ireland's world-famous hospitality.

Together we have much to celebrate: the ties between our people, the shared values, and the economic, business and cultural links that make us so much more than just neighbours, that make us firm friends and equal partners.

Madam President, speaking here in Dublin Castle it is impossible to ignore the weight of history, as it was yesterday when you and I laid wreaths at the Garden of Remembrance.

Indeed, so much of this visit reminds us of the complexity of our history, its many layers and traditions, but also the importance of forbearance and conciliation. Of being able to bow to the past, but not be bound by it.

Of course, the relationship has not always been straightforward; nor has the record over the centuries been entirely benign. It is a sad and regrettable reality that through history our islands have experienced more than their fair share of heartache, turbulence and loss.

These events have touched us all, many of us personally, and are a painful legacy. We can never forget those who have died or been injured, and their families. To all those who have suffered as a consequence of our troubled past I extend my sincere thoughts and deep sympathy.

With the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things which we would wish had been done differently or not at all. But it is also true that no-one who looked to the future over the past centuries could have imagined the strength of the bonds that are now in place between the governments and the people of our two nations, the spirit of partnership that we now enjoy, and the lasting rapport between us. No-one here this evening could doubt that heartfelt desire of our two nations.

Madam President, you have done a great deal to promote this understanding and reconciliation.

You set out to build bridges. And I have seen at first hand your success in bringing together different communities and traditions on this island. You have also shed new light on the sacrifice of those who served in the First World War. Even as we jointly opened the Messines Peace Park in 1998, it was difficult to look ahead to the time when you and I would be standing together at Islandbridge as we were today.

That transformation is also evident in the establishment of a successful power-sharing Executive in Northern Ireland. A knot of history that was painstakingly loosened by the British and Irish Governments together with the strength, vision and determination of the political parties in Northern Ireland.

What were once only hopes for the future have now come to pass; it is almost exactly 13 years since the overwhelming majority of people in Ireland and Northern Ireland voted in favour of the agreement signed on Good Friday 1998, paving the way for Northern Ireland to become the exciting and inspirational place that it is today.

I applaud the work of all those involved in the peace process, and of all those who support and nurture peace, including members of the police, the Gardaí, and the other emergency services, and those who work in the communities, the churches and charitable bodies like Co-operation Ireland. Taken together, their work not only serves as a basis for reconciliation between our people and communities, but it gives hope to other peacemakers across the world that through sustained effort, peace can and will prevail.

For the world moves on quickly. The challenges of the past have been replaced by new economic challenges which will demand the same imagination and courage. The lessons from the peace process are clear; whatever life throws at us, our individual responses will be all the stronger for working together and sharing the load.

There are other stories written daily across these islands which do not find their voice in solemn pages of history books, or newspaper headlines, but which are at the heart of our shared narrative.

Many British families have members who live in this country, as many Irish families have close relatives in the United Kingdom.

These families share the two islands; they have visited each other and have come home to each other over the years.

They are the ordinary people who yearned for the peace and understanding we now have between our two nations and between the communities within those two nations; a living testament to how much in common we have.

These ties of family, friendship and affection are our most precious resource. They are the lifeblood of the partnership across these islands, a golden thread that runs through all our joint successes so far, and all we will go on to achieve.

They are a reminder that we have much to do together to build a future for all our grandchildren: the kind of future our grandparents could only dream of.

So we celebrate together the widespread spirit of goodwill and deep mutual understanding that has served to make the relationship more harmonious, close as good neighbours should always be.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0518/queenspeech.html

The Waltzing Consumer

dlofnep wrote: »

She did not apologise. She said events were regrettable. But she did not personalise it by stating that she was sorry for Britain's actions in Ireland. Instead, it was one of 'mutual regret'. Doesn't cut it I'm afraid. It was a hollow attempt at an apology.

“To all those who have suffered as a consequence of our troubled past I extend my sincere thoughts and deep sympathy."

Do you need a dictionary and a copy of her speech now? Try digging up.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

No she did not. Not once did she utter the words "I am sorry."

I think she has apologised for this last 2 days or more. The mere fact she went to the garden to lay a wreath says a lot and is basically an apology. So now the shoe should be on the other foot.

tayto lover

dlofnep wrote: »

She did not apologise. She said events were regrettable. But she did not personalise it by stating that she was sorry for Britain's actions in Ireland. Instead, it was one of 'mutual regret'. Doesn't cut it I'm afraid. It was a hollow attempt at an apology.

I might be wrong but did Gerry Adams apologise for the murder of Jean McConville ?

lil-ms-vodka

There is nothing to apologise over, leave the past where it is

dlofnep

Apology - an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret.

It is a sad and regrettable reality that through history our islands have experienced more than their fair share of heartache, turbulence and loss.

No admission of error here. She is basically saying what we already know - we've experienced loss. She does not accept responsibility on Britain's behalf, therefore it is not an apology.

To all those who have suffered as a consequence of our troubled past I extend my sincere thoughts and deep sympathy.

Once again sharing the burden. It was too much for her to just say what was required to be said along the lines of "We are deeply sorry for the role Britain has played in the past on this Island." That would have been enough. But she didn't say it, and therefore did not accept Britain's responsibility - therefore it is not an apology.

If you want to harp on about 'dictionary' definitions - then perhaps you might wish to overlook them yourselves first. It was a hollow gesture, and doesn't come close to being anything remotely near an apology.

Fuzzy Clam

dlofnep wrote: »

She did not apologise. She said events were regrettable.

Apologetic regretfully acknowledging fault

Now give it a rest....please

gavmcg92

Members of the royal family do not do apologies but in this circumstance we got more than we expected. If you are intelligent enough to read through the lines you would figure out that this was a heartfelt apology.

Both speeches I felt were fantastic and I think the Queen starting as Gaelige was a great touch.

dlofnep

tayto lover wrote: »

I might be wrong but did Gerry Adams apologise for the murder of Jean McConville ?

Gerry Adams didn't murder Jean McConville. Try not to deflect. Sinn Féin leadership has apologised (a real apology by the way, which include the words 'sorry') for anyone that was killed by the IRA.

Killer Pigeon

dlofnep wrote: »

Apology - an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret.



No admission of error here. She is basically saying what we already know - we've experienced loss. She does not accept responsibility on Britain's behalf, therefore it is not an apology.



Once again sharing the burden. It was too much for her to just say what was required to be said along the lines of "We are deeply sorry for the role Britain has played in the past on this Island." That would have been enough. But she didn't say it, and therefore did not accept Britain's responsibility - therefore it is not an apology.

If you want to harp on about 'dictionary' definitions - then perhaps you might wish to overlook them yourselves first. It was a hollow gesture, and doesn't come close to being anything remotely near an apology.

how about this;

With the benefit of historical hindsight we can all see things which we would wish had been done differently or not at all.

dlofnep

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Apologetic regretfully acknowledging fault

Now give it a rest....please

I won't give it a rest. Who are you to dictate what a person can post? If you're looking for a utopia where everyone praises the Queen's actions, then go to England. But here in Ireland, expect that people are going to scrutinize a pivotal speech. She did not accept fault, therefore it is not an apology. I don't know how clearer I can make this.

dlofnep

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

how about this;

She was referring to 'we' as in both Ireland and Britain. She refused to speak on behalf of Britain. I watched the speech - I know an apology when I see one, and that was not one. Her entire speech encompassed the expression of 'mutual regret'.

Fuzzy Clam

dlofnep wrote: »

Apology - an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret.

That is only one definition and is not exclusive.
Keep looking and you'll find one that suits better.

The Waltzing Consumer

dlofnep wrote: »

Apology - an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret.



No admission of error here. She is basically saying what we already know - we've experienced loss. She does not accept responsibility on Britain's behalf, therefore it is not an apology.



Once again sharing the burden. It was too much for her to just say what was required to be said along the lines of "We are deeply sorry for the role Britain has played in the past on this Island." That would have been enough. But she didn't say it, and therefore did not accept Britain's responsibility - therefore it is not an apology.

If you want to harp on about 'dictionary' definitions - then perhaps you might wish to overlook them yourselves first. It was a hollow gesture, and doesn't come close to being anything remotely near an apology.

:rolleyes:

You know what one of the biggest "apologies" was after WWII and is an iconic moment captured in photography. It was when Willy Brandt knelt at the Warsaw ghetto memorial in 1970. It was amazing, respectful, and symbolic of a nation's regret and deep sorrow. He did not have to say the word "sorry". But some people are a bit slower and require things to be explained, like definitions and actual words.

KeithAFC

dlofnep wrote: »

Gerry Adams didn't murder Jean McConville. Try not to deflect. Sinn Féin leadership has apologised (a real apology by the way, which include the words 'sorry') for anyone that was killed by the IRA.

So will Gerry do what the Queen is doing and attend our 36th Ulster division remembrance this year?

dlofnep

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You know what one of the biggest "apologies" was after WWII and is an iconic moment captured in photography. It was when Willy Brandt knelt at the Warsaw ghetto memorial in 1970. It was amazing, respectful, and symbolic of a nation's regret and deep sorrow. He did not have to say the word "sorry". But some people are a bit slower and require things to be explained, like definitions and actual words.

I'm sure laying a wreath was of great benefit to the families of those murdered by British solders, which were honoured for their actions by the Queen. I'm afraid I'm not interested in wishy-washy, hollow gestures. She had an opportunity to offer a real apology, and express it in a very clear and concise manner - she failed to do so, and ended up wasting her time with the expected 'mutual regret' rhetoric.

It's clear her mere presence in Ireland was enough for some - But for other people, it was far from enough. Who are you to judge them?

loldog

dlofnep wrote: »

. But here in Ireland, expect that people are going to scrutinize a pivotal speech. She did not accept fault, therefore it is not an apology.

Some Irish people act is if Ireland was the only country in the world to ever have been oppressed or wronged in any way.

What happened to Ireland is pretty much run of the mill stuff by the standards of human history and other countries would put us to shame in the way they have gotten over it and got back to normality.

.

Oh_Noes

KeithAFC wrote: »

So will Gerry do what the Queen is doing and attend our 36th Ulster division remembrance this year?

The suggestion that you're making seems to be that republican paramilitaries should apologise for their actions because the Queen of England expressed regret at the actions of the state of which she is represents.

I would guess that she's not speaking on behalf of loyalist paramilitaries or that they would claim she is speaking for them.

Should Mary McAleese apologise for the actions of the IRA? No.

The Waltzing Consumer

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm sure laying a wreath was of great benefit to the families of those murdered by British solders, which were honoured for their actions by the Queen. I'm afraid I'm not interested in wishy-washy, hollow gestures. She had an opportunity to offer a real apology, and express it in a very clear and concise manner - she failed to do so, and ended up wasting her time with the expected 'mutual regret' rhetoric.

It's clear her mere presence in Ireland was enough for some - But for other people, it was far from enough. Who are you to judge them?

God, this is our "birther" issue. Listen, I dont think the vast majority of people or Queens or Presidents can please the numerous junkies, scumbags, hate-mongerers, football hooligans and others who wish to cling to the past and never move on. If it was an actual apology they were looking for, they would be protesting the Prime Minister, not the Queen, because the Prime Minister writes her speeches and he visits here all the time with zero problems.

dlofnep

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

That is only one definition and is not exclusive.
Keep looking and you'll find one that suits better.

Imagine this.

A man shoots a woman dead tomorrow. When asked if he is sorry for shooting her - he replies, that her loss was 'regrettable' . Would it pass for an apology for you? Or would you aspire to see him say "I'm am profoundly sorry for my actions and the deep hurt I have caused?"

If Gerry Adams said something was regrettable - you'd be jumping all over him saying it didn't go far enough. The double standards on here are hilarious.

Happyman42

Raging here at a missed opportunity, the word 'sorry' was required, nothing less, no equivocation! After 30million spent all they have done is give fuel to the dissidents and consequently consigned us all to more years of conflict and tensions. Absolutely fuming with our government for engaging in this sham.

dlofnep

loldog wrote: »

Some Irish people act is if Ireland was the only country in the world to ever have been oppressed or wronged in any way.
.

No, they don't ever claim to have that unique status. A red herring if I ever saw one. Nor does it negate what occurred was wrong, and requires an apology. (Which was not given today)

KeithAFC

Oh_Noes wrote: »

The suggestion that you're making seems to be that republican paramilitaries should apologise for their actions because the Queen of England expressed regret at the actions of the state of which she is represents.

I would guess that she's not speaking on behalf of loyalist paramilitaries or that they would claim she is speaking for them.

Should Mary McAleese apologise for the actions of the IRA? No.

Gerry Adams is one of the biggest, if not the biggest name in Irish Republican politics living today for his terrorist past and being the leader of Sinn Fein. All im saying is he should follow her example and say sorry and admit his past actions.

Fuzzy Clam

dlofnep wrote: »

I won't give it a rest. Who are you to dictate what a person can post? If you're looking for a utopia where everyone praises the Queen's actions, then go to England. But here in Ireland, expect that people are going to scrutinize a pivotal speech. She did not accept fault, therefore it is not an apology. I don't know how clearer I can make this.

Ok try this,
Apologia: An explanation with expression of regret : a regretful acknowledgment of a fault.

She doesn't need to use the word "sorry" but reading the transcript, she certainly did express regret.

dlofnep

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

God, this is our "birther" issue. Listen, I dont think the vast majority of people or Queens or Presidents can please the numerous junkies, scumbags, hate-mongerers, football hooligans and others who wish to cling to the past and never move on. If it was an actual apology they were looking for, they would be protesting the Prime Minister, not the Queen, because the Prime Minister writes her speeches and he visits here all the time with zero problems.

Ah yes - attack the character of those questioning certain events, rather than asking why. Ad hominem 101. Congrats. :rolleyes:

cornbb

dlofnep wrote: »

Do what? Not apologise for 10 minutes?

Jeez, get over yourself. What's the point in looking for an apology? Who's gonna apologise to the queen for blowing her uncle to bits in the 70s? Herself and Mary McAleese were surely affected by the troubles to a far greater extent than the average citizen on either of these islands, but bravo to them for getting along with things. .

dlofnep

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Ok try this,
Apologia: An explanation with expression of regret : a regretful acknowledgment of a fault.

She doesn't need to use the word "sorry" but reading the transcript, she certainly did express regret.

She did not acknowledge Britain's faults. I've already pointed out that she expressed regret for a shared history. She could have quite simply stated 'I'm sorry on behalf of Britain for our role in Ireland'. She didn't do it, and therefore it didn't come close to being enough.

If you are content with her speech - fine. I'm not. Deal with it.

Livvie

omen80 wrote: »

I'm not slating what the queen said or anything and personally I think her speech was put very well, but for me there was no apology. The fact that we are unsure about this says it all.
Let's call a spade a spade, it was not an apology.

It was subtle, but I think it was. Mary Robinson said that an apology wouldn't be appropriate - I don't know why, but I'll bow to her greater knowledge of political etiquette or whatever. So in view of that, I think there was definitely the hint of an apology there. Saying that things could have been done differently or not at all, surely indicates regret.

An outright acknowledgement of responsibility would have been good though.

thebman

dlofnep wrote: »

Gerry Adams didn't murder Jean McConville. Try not to deflect. Sinn Féin leadership has apologised (a real apology by the way, which include the words 'sorry') for anyone that was killed by the IRA.

Who did the Queen murder that you need an apology from her?