Gardai and the RTA

markpb

I just watched a coach driver deciding he didn't want to drive south on St Stephens Green west, attempt a three point turn, blocked all the traffic, told the taxi drivers to move off the ranks, blocked the pedestrian crossing, used part of Grafton St before giving up and reversing all the way back St Stephens Green North to Dawson st to attempt another three point turn.

The strangest thing was seeing three Gardai on foot and three more in an unmarked branch car watch him, decide nothing was untoward and continue about their business. Surely there's a point at which discretion has to be put aside?

To be fair, although I'm not familiar with the place or anything, surely if the Gardaì had intervened during this, they'd have only unintentionally dragged it out a bit longer.


That said, he obviously knew there were lots of Gardaì there. Are you sure he didn't clear it with them first? Can't imagine him intentionally being so awkward and such, while surrounded by Gardaì. Seems too risky.

BrianD

Perhaps he took this route in error and realised that he would not be able to negotiate the lane way that takes you to the car parks. He would have had no option but to do an 'about turn' at the top of Grafton St.

The big failure here is the Gardai who, it seems from your post, did not provide any assistance to the driver. I have no doubt that the Gardai do what they do everywhere else in the city - chat amongst themselves and generally avoid doing what they are supposed to do.

DWCommuter

The Queen is a bigger issue. That may be why its a no wholes barred week of madness for the normal way of life. Much may be overlooked?

Cookie_Monster

even with a coach's turning circle that road is wide enough that it should not be too difficult to do

bmaxi

Gardaí ignoring breaches of the RTA is nothing new, it happens every day. It has even been said on this forum that they no longer carry tickets because they are too heavy. Poor little loves, imagine if they had to carry those big heavy guns like real police officers.

BrianD

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

even with a coach's turning circle that road is wide enough that it should not be too difficult to do

Would be a bit tight to do a 360 at the top of Stephens Green but easy enough to do a 3-point turn. The 40 ft trucks loading in gear to the Gaiety will often manoeuver here so they can reverse down Grafton St. to access the lane way behind the theatre.

However, the illegally parked taxis on both sides of the road would make it more difficult for vehicles turning here.

supersaint3

bmaxi wrote: »

Gardaí ignoring breaches of the RTA is nothing new, it happens every day. It has even been said on this forum that they no longer carry tickets because they are too heavy. Poor little loves, imagine if they had to carry those big heavy guns like real police officers.

There is not and has never been a physical ticket handed to a motorist at the side of the road in Ireland. They come in the post. Gardai may be moving from writing out ticket applications in books to using handheld machines, but never let the truth get away of a good story eh? :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

supersaint3 wrote: »

There is not and has never been a physical ticket handed to a motorist at the side of the road in Ireland. They come in the post. Gardai may be moving from writing out ticket applications in books to using handheld machines, but never let the truth get away of a good story eh? :rolleyes:

I have personally seen motorists getting tickets for parking and also for no tax and these were handed to her when she was contacted by Gardai and told to move her car.

bmaxi

supersaint3 wrote: »

There is not and has never been a physical ticket handed to a motorist at the side of the road in Ireland. They come in the post. Gardai may be moving from writing out ticket applications in books to using handheld machines, but never let the truth get away of a good story eh? :rolleyes:

Are you engaging in semantics here, in that the notice left on your windscreen is just that, a notice that an offence has been committed? If not, then you are wrong as I have been issued with a parking ticket by a member of AGS, I saw him do it and then get back on his motorcycle. Of course that was in the days when Gardaí saw it as their duty to enforce the law and not just to turn up for their shift.

open247

has anyone that quoted on this thread experienced a garda using his/her discretion when parking illegally and being left off with a warning i wonder.....

Cookie_Monster

open247 wrote: »

has anyone that quoted on this thread experienced a garda using his/her discretion when parking illegally and being left off with a warning i wonder.....

if by discretion you mean not bothering their hole to do anything about it, then yes, I see that all the time

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if by discretion you mean not bothering their hole to do anything about it, then yes, I see that all the time

They also ignore very visibly illegal number plates as well as dangerously tinted side windows.

bmaxi

Now that the speed traps are outsourced, what exactly do the " Traffic Corps" do, the odd checkpoint? I reckon Garda numbers could be halved and no one would notice, no pass outs from Templemore could probably be extended by ten years and save us a few bob

highlydebased

bmaxi wrote: »

Now that the speed traps are outsourced, what exactly do the " Traffic Corps" do, the odd checkpoint? I reckon Garda numbers could be halved and no one would notice, no pass outs from Templemore could probably be extended by ten years and save us a few bob

I see far more Gardai doing speed traps now compared to before the go safe vans

Cookie_Monster

bmaxi wrote: »

Now that the speed traps are outsourced, what exactly do the " Traffic Corps" do, the odd checkpoint? I reckon Garda numbers could be halved and no one would notice, no pass outs from Templemore could probably be extended by ten years and save us a few bob

maybe they could appear on other forms of "traffic" the Red Line Luas would be a good start to show some presence.

Could start having checkpoints that do something other than measure speed, tax and insurance, defective parts/lights, drink driving. I used to see a fair amount of DD check points, haven't seen one in months and months of late

parsi

bmaxi wrote: »

Now that the speed traps are outsourced, what exactly do the " Traffic Corps" do, the odd checkpoint? I reckon Garda numbers could be halved and no one would notice, no pass outs from Templemore could probably be extended by ten years and save us a few bob

Just because you don't seem them doesn't mean they're not out and about.

Though if you want more visible policing then maybe they could spinoff and become a transport police and arrest skangers who are using free travel passes fraudulently, are causing a disturbance or simply not paying whilst on public transport.

bmaxi

parsi wrote: »

Though if you want more visible policing then maybe they could spinoff and become a transport police and arrest skangers who are using free travel passes fraudulently, are causing a disturbance or simply not paying whilst on public transport.

Sounds like it might require effort and initiative. That would be a "no" then.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

Just because you don't seem them doesn't mean they're not out and about.

Though if you want more visible policing then maybe they could spinoff and become a transport police and arrest skangers who are using free travel passes fraudulently, are causing a disturbance or simply not paying whilst on public transport.

Most of the "skangers" you refer to are using free travel passes which they are legally entitled to possess and use.

If you have a problem with them I suggest you contact the department of social protection and your local elected representatives in a bid to have the criteria for entitlement changed instead of ranting on public fora and calling innocent citizens "skangers" and Fraudsters!

parsi

bmaxi wrote: »

Sounds like it might require effort and initiative. That would be a "no" then.

It would also require self-control from the politicians when they're faced with the inevitable visits from constituents who've had their passes removed for abuse.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Most of the "skangers" you refer to are using free travel passes which they are legally entitled to possess and use.

If you have a problem with them I suggest you contact the department of social protection and your local elected representatives in a bid to have the criteria for entitlement changed instead of ranting on public fora and calling innocent citizens "skangers" and Fraudsters!

See Foggy I'm referring to those that remain when the "most of the skangers" are accounted for.

Even you are now agreeing that there is abuse and that some of those people travelling on free travel passes aren't entitled to them.

It has been a long slog but finally you've got there.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

See Foggy I'm referring to those that remain when the "most of the skangers" are accounted for.

Even you are now agreeing that there is abuse and that some of those people travelling on free travel passes aren't entitled to them.

It has been a long slog but finally you've got there.

Yes there is abuse but not at anywhere the levels you are making out. As already stated most of the troublemakers on public transport are legitimately holding free travel passes through mental illness etc but rather than tackle these few individuals you would rather tar innocent people old and disabled in particular as troublemakers, You are intimating that everyone who presents a free travel pass should be treated as a suspect or as an offender(guilty by disability or age). The nazis did similar purging of those they deemed a burden on society. Will it be smokers next for putting strain on national health services?

I find the general tone of your posts on free travel offensive.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Yes there is abuse but not at anywhere the levels you are making out. As already stated most of the troublemakers on public transport are legitimately holding free travel passes through mental illness etc but rather than tackle these few individuals you would rather tar innocent people old and disabled in particular as troublemakers, You are intimating that everyone who presents a free travel pass should be treated as a suspect or as an offender(guilty by disability or age). The nazis did similar purging of those they deemed a burden on society. Will it be smokers next for putting strain on national health services?

I find the general tone of your posts on free travel offensive.

There are 700,623 people with Free Travel Passes. Like any other expenditure of the State (for which I pay) it needs to be regularly examined to ensure that it is appropriately supporting those who are in need. Now I don't see how that can be done without checking each persons circumstance as it would be wrong to suggest that someone is an abuser on the basis of their appearance.

As regards tone - many of your posts rants that every bus driver, train driver and station staff member is a lying dishonest thief but yet you get offended when folk suggest that there is abuse amongst the 700,623 users of the Free Travel Scheme.

I can only LOL.

--
source: http://www.welfare.ie/EN/AboutUs/Minister/Documents/Minister_Brief_2011.pdf

-Chris-

foggy_lad wrote: »

I find the general tone of your posts on free travel offensive.

If you've an issue with the tone of posts, please report them. Don't be calling people out on-thread.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

There are 700,623 people with Free Travel Passes. Like any other expenditure of the State (for which I pay) it needs to be regularly examined to ensure that it is appropriately supporting those who are in need. Now I don't see how that can be done without checking each persons circumstance as it would be wrong to suggest that someone is an abuser on the basis of their appearance.

As regards tone - many of your posts rants that every bus driver, train driver and station staff member is a lying dishonest thief but yet you get offended when folk suggest that there is abuse amongst the 700,623 users of the Free Travel Scheme.

I can only LOL.

--
source: http://www.welfare.ie/EN/AboutUs/Minister/Documents/Minister_Brief_2011.pdf

Ok so there are 700,000 or so legitimate free passes in circulation and some of these will of course be used fraudulently by others after a parents death or by not declaring change in circumstances etc, but that is something for the department of social protection to tackle not you.

you must also take into account that many of these free passes are never used due to the recipients being confined to their homes or other institutions or having cars or bikes and not needing to use public transport.

People who are receiving disability and old age pension and other benefits are regularly asked to confirm their circumstances and entitlement as most of these payments are means tested and regular medical checks are made usually for those on certain forms of pension or payment, for example someone getting a blind pension is unlikely to be able to see if they have always been blind so would not need such regular medical checks.

I do agree that appropriate checks must be done but to label or insinuate that all people with free travel are abusers of the system or are "skangers" is just wrong.

Do you also think that bus drivers and train station staff are suitably qualified medically and otherwise to make decisions on an individuals entitlement to free travel?

You can LOL all you like but realistically the scheme works well enough and a change to another scheme would be like changing the gauge of the country's railways, an unnecessary expense in a time of serious recession. Also bear in mind that most of the people who are benefitting from free travel are the very people responsible for the good times we so recently enjoyed as they endured the last few recessions and should be seen as beinG entitled to free travel as a thank you from the state.

parsi

With all due respect - the people who are responsible for the "good times" are the people we're bailing out at the moment though NAMA et al.

Once again:

I've stated that there is abuse and that these abusers are skangers.

You've agreed that there is abuse.

We've all said that someone should do something.

So let's do something.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

With all due respect - the people who are responsible for the "good times" are the people we're bailing out at the moment though NAMA et al.

Once again:

I've stated that there is abuse and that these abusers are skangers.

You've agreed that there is abuse.

We've all said that someone should do something.

So let's do something.

It is not for us to do something unless it is to lobby for better policing of the free travel scheme and proper checks by transport staff etc but again these checks if done to the letter of the law will leave elderly and disabled people out in the cold miles from home.

I know of one old man who is about 92 and uses his wife's travel pass on the local bus service, he is not listed on his wife's pass because he has his own which he has lost many months if not years ago. Drivers let him travel but they should not according to your limited view of the system. This old man is abusing the system and a "skanger" according to your criteria.

All I will say about it now and I think you will happily agree is that common sense should prevail! and those with free travel who are involved in anti social behavior should be legally excluded from trains busses and trams as is provided for in all CIE and RPA bye laws!

-Chris-

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is not for us to do something unless it is to lobby for better policing of the free travel scheme and proper checks by transport staff etc but again these checks if done to the letter of the law will leave elderly and disabled people out in the cold miles from home.

So lobby! You write about these things like you really care about them. Use your passion!

foggy_lad wrote: »

I know of one old man who is about 92 and uses his wife's travel pass on the local bus service, he is not listed on his wife's pass because he has his own which he has lost many months if not years ago. Drivers let him travel but they should not according to your limited view of the system. This old man is abusing the system and a "skanger" according to your criteria.

How long has this old man been using his wife's travel pass? Has he applied for a replacement in the meantime?

Travelling on a fraudulent basis is an abuse of the system, surely...

foggy_lad wrote: »

All I will say about it now and I think you will happily agree is that common sense should prevail! and those with free travel who are involved in anti social behavior should be legally excluded from trains busses and trams as is provided for in all CIE and RPA bye laws!

Lobby for this also, but the responsibility should be put on those who deserve passes to ensure that their passes are correct and valid.
There should be no issue with reissuing all the travel passes, it would actually benefit your elderly friend rather than inconvenience them (presumably).

Chris_5339762

On the plus side in Terenure this morning, in the usual jamup at the lights, two cars were in the middle of the junction when the lights went red. They couldnt continue because of the busstop blocking traffic just up the road.

So of course they were jamming up the entire junction because they entered the box when their exit wasnt clear.

From nowhere two guards swooped on the cars and gave both drivers a good bollocking. One of them was sent packing, the other was told to pull in down the road and was given a stern talking to and a ticket.

I was delighted.

bmaxi

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

On the plus side in Terenure this morning, in the usual jamup at the lights, two cars were in the middle of the junction when the lights went red. They couldnt continue because of the busstop blocking traffic just up the road.

So of course they were jamming up the entire junction because they entered the box when their exit wasnt clear.

From nowhere two guards swooped on the cars and gave both drivers a good bollocking. One of them was sent packing, the other was told to pull in down the road and was given a stern talking to and a ticket.

I was delighted.

Well done to those two Gardaí, unfortunately they're the exception that proves the rule. In contrast, I passed Wexford Garda Station today and there was a Garda van parked with two wheels on the pavement, on double yellow lines, on a corner. Women with prams were forced on to the road to pass it, double standards or what? There were several more cars illegally parked on either side of it and I could take an educated guess as to who owned them

Carawaystick

bmaxi wrote: »

Well done to those two Gardaí, unfortunately they're the exception that proves the rule. In contrast, I passed Wexford Garda Station today and there was a Garda van parked with two wheels on the pavement, on double yellow lines, on a corner. Women with prams were forced on to the road to pass it, double standards or what? There were several more cars illegally parked on either side of it and I could take an educated guess as to who owned them

While it might have seemed like the cars were parked illegally, if they were cop cars they weren't, they were just parked badly....:(

I passed Pearse st. garda station in Dublin a few years ago and cop cars parked on the footpath of Townsend st caused the same thing, one old person on a zimmerframe and a mother of twins had to go on the road to get by.

I called in and asked (politely) if they could park better in future, that the road was plenty wide to stay off the path and since then there has been an awful lot less cop cars blocking the path or even with just a wheel on the path there.

A fortnight ago I saw a parking squad car with the wheel barely on the kerb move and re-park so the wheel was on the road, so obviously some heed was paid to this, among other possible complaints about it.

parsi

A significant problem is that the barracks doesn't have sufficient space for its vehicles. This cant be right.

Then again if I'm on the luas and some skanger is arguing about his rights to a free travel pass , then I'd like a Garda to come quickly and if double-parking was the price I'd be happy for the taxpayer to pay that (along with the 7000,000 other free travel passes that we pay for).

Cookie_Monster

parsi wrote: »

A significant problem is that the barracks doesn't have sufficient space for its vehicles. This cant be right.

don't have space for all the private cars, plenty of space for official cars if they were to enforce a no private car rule, no excuse for this in central Dublin, plenty of car parks and public transport.

bmaxi

Carawaystick wrote: »

While it might have seemed like the cars were parked illegally, if they were cop cars they weren't, they were just parked badly....:(

I'm aware that the emergency services have certain licence while in the course of their duties but I wouldn't have thought it extended to indiscriminate parking, leading to endangerment of the public and I'm pretty certain it doesn't extend to personal vehicles.
There is an area for official Garda vehicles outside the Garda station but only one of the seven or eight cars parked there was an official Garda marked car.
Even without the RTA, anybody with a bit of cop on could see that this was dangerous and illegal parking.
The irony of it is, Inspector Mick Walsh of the Traffic Corps in Wexford has a semi permanent spot on South East Radio whence he regularly lectures us lesser mortals on driving etiquette. Only last week, prior to a big GAA match in the town, he was warning the plebs of the plague that would be visited on illegal parking, that Gardaí would be out in force "to enforce the law", and that parking could be had for very little money.
Bride St church car park is only a stone's throw from the Garda station, maybe they should practice what he preaches or maybe Inspector Walsh could take a walk around Wexford Garda station and "enforce the law", I'll even organise someone to carry that heavy ticket book for him.

-Chris-

Would any of you take some pictures and write to your local TD regarding the parking issue?

Apart from Carawaystick, has anyone gone into a Garda station and complained about the parking? What was the reaction?

bmaxi

-Chris- wrote: »

Would any of you take some pictures and write to your local TD regarding the parking issue?

Apart from Carawaystick, has anyone gone into a Garda station and complained about the parking? What was the reaction?

I asked, tongue in cheek, in Gorey Garda station some years ago was there one law for Gardaí and one for the general public and was told, yes. The tone and manner used suggested the Garda was not being facetious but was telling me to fcuk off and mind my own business, so I did.
As in all countries, the police can make life very difficult if you upset them, so I tend not to.

-Chris-

bmaxi wrote: »

I asked, tongue in cheek, in Gorey Garda station some years ago was there one law for Gardaí and one for the general public and was told, yes. The tone and manner used suggested the Garda was not being facetious but was telling me to fcuk off and mind my own business, so I did.
As in all countries, the police can make life very difficult if you upset them, so I tend not to.

Did you ask it in such an abrasive manner?

bmaxi

-Chris- wrote: »

Did you ask it in such an abrasive manner?

No, I asked on foot of a similar incidence of a Garda car parked on the footpath. This was at a time when there weren't so many Dubs in the Gorey area and local Gardaí still gave tickets for traffic offences, particularly targetting bank holiday weekends when there were lots of visitors. I accompanied my neighbour, who had been given a ticket, to the Garda station to pay it. On the way we passed the offending Garda car parked outside a shop while the driver was making a purchase inside. By the time we got to the station, the same Garda was manning the desk so I put the question to him. Maybe he just didn't like the fact he had been caught out.

parsi

Why not send a reasoned non-inflammatory letter to the local Superintendent and see what happens ? Not much use talking to the guy on the desk.

Maybe it's a big ask to expect that people do more than moan on an internet forum.

bmaxi

parsi wrote: »

Maybe it's a big ask to expect that people do more than moan on an internet forum.

Are we to infer from this you won't be posting anymore?

parsi

bmaxi wrote: »

Are we to infer from this you won't be posting anymore?

Nope. You missed the operative word _just_ .

I will continue to complain in a constructive manner to the relevant authorities about offences - eg free travel pass abuse, obstructive parking, dangerous driving etc - just like any other responsible citizen.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

Nope. You missed the operative word _just_ .

I will continue to complain in a constructive manner to the relevant authorities about offences - eg free travel pass abuse, obstructive parking, dangerous driving etc - just like any other responsible citizen.

And drivers smoking in their workplace or using mobiles to make or take calls or even texts while driving? How about a driver reaching down and searching through their work/lunch bag on the floor of a bus for the paper and an envelope with some forms which they decide to read while hurtling along the motorway?

dowlingm

-Chris- wrote: »

Would any of you take some pictures and write to your local TD regarding the parking issue?

Writing to South East Radio might get a better response...

As for Dubliners p!ssed off with scofflaws, I present to those of you with cameras/cameraphones...
http://dublin.mybikelane.com/

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

And drivers smoking in their workplace or using mobiles to make or take calls or even texts while driving? How about a driver reaching down and searching through their work/lunch bag on the floor of a bus for the paper and an envelope with some forms which they decide to read while hurtling along the motorway?

Is that not covered by one of the three examples I posted ?

Unless of course there is a specific offence of "reaching down and searching through their work/lunch bag on the floor of a bus for the paper and an envelope with some forms which they decide to read while hurtling along the motorway" ?

I know that you travel more miles than the average Bus Eireann coach so you may have noticed a few more reportable offences...

bmaxi

parsi wrote: »

Nope. You missed the operative word _just_ .

I will continue to complain in a constructive manner to the relevant authorities about offences - eg free travel pass abuse, obstructive parking, dangerous driving etc - just like any other responsible citizen.

I've been to Specsavers and I still can't see the word "just" included in your post.

Kudos to you for complaining to the relevant authorities if you have a grievance but presumably you won't be doing it on here, as that would constitute "moaning on an internet forum" to which, by your own admission,you are averse.
I, on the other hand, will continue to complain where and when I see fit. Feel free to ignore.

-Chris-

bmaxi wrote: »

parsi wrote: »

Nope. You missed the operative word _just_ .

I will continue to complain in a constructive manner to the relevant authorities about offences - eg free travel pass abuse, obstructive parking, dangerous driving etc - just like any other responsible citizen.

I've been to Specsavers and I still can't see the word "just" included in your post.

Kudos to you for complaining to the relevant authorities if you have a grievance but presumably you won't be doing it on here, as that would constitute "moaning on an internet forum" to which, by your own admission,you are averse.
I, on the other hand, will continue to complain where and when I see fit. Feel free to ignore.

I don't think anyone wants anyone to stop posting, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the most productive way to deal with an issue like this is to complain to the people who can/should do something about it first, and then complain more publicly about their reaction.

Ranting anonymously on the internet seems kind of impotent to me...

My €0.02

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

I know that you travel more miles than the average Bus Eireann coach so you may have noticed a few more reportable offences...

Please let us know how exactly you know how many miles I travel? And also what business it is of yours to know my travel arrangements?


As for reporting bad behaviour, I have reported several drivers of private trucks for using their phones or eating their lunch while driving or even a few who were reading the paper and one reading a book. When I have reported these drivers I usually get a reply or acknowledgment but this does not happen with the CIE group of companies.

Maybe I should be complaining to the Garda and let them deal with bus Eireann and Dublin bus but I fear they have better things to be doing given the recent freeze on new applicants and the dropping numbers and dwindling resources they are given to fight crime.

highlydebased

foggy_lad wrote: »

Please let us know how exactly you know how many miles I travel? And also what business it is of yours to know my travel arrangements?

.

You come on here complaining about the coaches you take so that is how the entire world knows both of the above :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

highlydebased wrote: »

foggy_lad wrote: »

Please let us know how exactly you know how many miles I travel? And also what business it is of yours to know my travel arrangements?

.

You come on here complaining about the coaches you take so that is how the entire world knows both of the above :rolleyes:

Do youknow the average mileage of a bus Eireann coach? Parsi seems to know as they claim I travel more miles than an expressway coach.

I have had reason to make complaint about some coaches as well as some drivers but mostly drivers are good and abide by the law and their conditions of employment.

The number of miles I travel or where to and how I travel is not yours or anyone else's business.

bmaxi

-Chris- wrote: »

I don't think anyone wants anyone to stop posting, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the most productive way to deal with an issue like this is to complain to the people who can/should do something about it first, and then complain more publicly about their reaction.

Ranting anonymously on the internet seems kind of impotent to me...

My €0.02

I didn't suggest he stop posting, he set the parameters himself, nor did I suggest you shouldn't complain to the relevant authorities, though experience has shown it to often be a futile exercise.
The subject for discussion here was the attitude of the Gardaí toward the RTA and for the most part it has been on topic. It has only been the off topic sniping from certain parties, a legacy from other threads, which has diverted it. So hardly a rant.

highlydebased

foggy_lad wrote: »

The number of miles I travel or where to and how I travel is not yours or anyone else's business.

I'll say it again- you come on here posting about your travel business for everyone to know! Otherwise I really couldn't care less.