Racism and prejudice - Should people respect a persons choice?

LighterGuy

For the record myself and my friend are not racist or prejudice in any kind. But this thread is born out of what was said today in a random conversation.

Something interesting popped up. We are told to be respectful of a persons choice (religion, sexuality, race etc) ... so what if it happens that a person was a racist? .. that their personal choice is that they dont like certain people, for what ever reason.

Now, this where the discussion gets interesting. Lets use race. What if someone doesnt like chinese people (or whatever) but isnt openly agressive about it? (remarks, comments etc) that its his/her choice and keeps it to themselves. So they are not harming anyone.

So boards.ie would you respect that persons choice?
or would you not?

Bruthal

So the story is, your not a racist;)

bonerm

LighterGuy wrote: »

For the record myself and my friend are not racist or prejudice in any kind. But

Fair enough.

Dangerous Man

I hear you're a racist now Father?

LighterGuy

robbie7730 wrote: »

So the story is, your not a racist;)

Shush, i've got a court case soon. My defense shall be this thread. lol.

Nah but seriously whats peoples thoughts?
apart from the usual who scan every after hours post to make witty replies :pac:

(in before someone quotes this and makes a witty reply :rolleyes:)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

That sounds like something you need to bait the mormons chatline with.

Yakult

No.

Tonyandthewhale

LighterGuy wrote: »

Something interesting popped up. We are told to be respectful of a persons choice (religion, sexuality, race etc)

Religion maybe could be considered a choice but who chooses their sexual orientation? Or their race?

And no, racism isn't a valid life-style choice, it's being a dick. Please don't tell me I have to explain that any further.

The King of Moo

There's an interesting tension between respecting freedom of thought but also wanting to stamp out racism.
It'd be great for racism to cease existing, but I also believe people have the right to think what they want, and hate when people tell other people that what they believe is wrong. It's counterproductive and can make people more entrenched and maybe more extreme in their views.
I think the best approach to combatting racism is to understand why some people develop racist views, and not lambast them for their views. While I don't agree with racism, I can understand why in some cases people develop racist attitudes (older people not used to seeing different nationalites, areas with lots of immigration in a short period of time).
It's better to respect people's freedom of thought, but at the same time gently show them that, hey, we're all equal baby, without telling them that they're wrong and should stop being racist because they're evil.
It's a tricky balance to strike though.

orourkeda

LighterGuy wrote: »

For the record myself and my friend are not racist or prejudice in any kind. But this thread is born out of what was said today in a random conversation.

Something interesting popped up. We are told to be respectful of a persons choice (religion, sexuality, race etc) ... so what if it happens that a person was a racist? .. that their personal choice is that they dont like certain people, for what ever reason.

Now, this where the discussion gets interesting. Lets use race. What if someone doesnt like chinese people (or whatever) but isnt openly agressive about it? (remarks, comments etc) that its his/her choice and keeps it to themselves. So they are not harming anyone.

So boards.ie would you respect that persons choice?
or would you not?

Everybody is racist and\or prejudiced.

I refuse to believe anyone who suggests that they do not hold any grudges, disdain, hatred, disrespect, comtempt or any other negative feeling towards at least one discernible group of people.

All we need to do is scratch the surface to identify another persons prejudices

Bloody Nipples

If someone is a shallow, narrow minded backstabber then you have grounds to dislike them.

If they are black, white, Asian etc, that alone is not grounds to dislike someone.

If you base your dislike on the simple fact that there skin is a certain colour and accompany it this with sweeping generalisations that encompass everyone of that colour, you're suffering from chronic idiocy and racial prejudice (which is grounds to dislike someone).


So no I wouldn't respect someone's choice to be racist :rolleyes:

The King of Moo

orourkeda wrote: »

Everybody is racist and\or prejudiced.

Typical thing for a Dub to say... :rolleyes:

LighterGuy

orourkeda wrote: »

Everybody is racist and\or prejudiced.

I refuse to believe anyone who suggests that they do not hold any grudges, disdain, hatred, disrespect, comtempt or any other negative feeling towards at least one discernible group of people.

All we need to do is scratch the surface to identify another persons prejudices

Agree 150%
sadly there are alot of people who say one thing, but really are the other.

Terry

LighterGuy wrote: »

For the record myself and my friend are not racist or prejudice in any kind. But this thread is born out of what was said today in a random conversation.

Something interesting popped up. We are told to be respectful of a persons choice (religion, sexuality, race etc) ... so what if it happens that a person was a racist? .. that their personal choice is that they dont like certain people, for what ever reason.

Now, this where the discussion gets interesting. Lets use race. What if someone doesnt like chinese people (or whatever) but isnt openly agressive about it? (remarks, comments etc) that its his/her choice and keeps it to themselves. So they are not harming anyone.

So boards.ie would you respect that persons choice?
or would you not?

Can you define the term "random"?
If so, I will help you with your dilemma.

If you cannot define the word "Random" and defend your use of it in your OP, then I have no choice but to call you rac.......

Bloody Nipples

orourkeda wrote: »

Everybody is racist and\or prejudiced.

I refuse to believe anyone who suggests that they do not hold any grudges, disdain, hatred, disrespect, comtempt or any other negative feeling towards at least one discernible group of people.

All we need to do is scratch the surface to identify another persons prejudices

While everyone has some ingrained prejudice, you can try to move past them. And some are more prejudiced than others.

Bruthal

The King of Moo wrote: »

Typical thing for a Dub to say... :rolleyes:

Probably true though in reality. You just said its typical of a dub.

The King of Moo

orourkeda wrote: »

Everybody is racist and\or prejudiced.

I refuse to believe anyone who suggests that they do not hold any grudges, disdain, hatred, disrespect, comtempt or any other negative feeling towards at least one discernible group of people.

All we need to do is scratch the surface to identify another persons prejudices

Though seriously, I agree that we are instinctively led to dislike people who are different, probably an evolutionary measure to keep us safe, though we can override that instinct.

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

Typical thing for a Dub to say... :rolleyes:

Its closer to the truth than most people care to admit.

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

Though seriously, I agree that we are instinctively led to dislike people who are different, probably an evolutionary measure to keep us safe, though we can override that instinct.

I dont believe we can.

Life just teaches us to be at least wary of certain sections of society. Thats just the way people are.

The King of Moo

orourkeda wrote: »

Its closer to the truth than most people care to admit.

I agree. I don't mind if someone's racist in thought (if they keep it internal how would I know anyway), and everyone has at least little racist thoughts.
The important thing for me is whether people act on that, or try to disadvantage certain groups in some way.

orourkeda

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

While everyone has some ingrained prejudice, you can try to move past them. And some are more prejudiced than others.

You may try to move past them, but its always there. Maybe in the background, but it's there nonetheless.

digme

LighterGuy wrote: »

For the record myself and my friend are not racist or prejudice in any kind. But this thread is born out of what was said today in a random conversation.

Something interesting popped up. We are told to be respectful of a persons choice (religion, sexuality, race etc) ... so what if it happens that a person was a racist? .. that their personal choice is that they dont like certain people, for what ever reason.

Now, this where the discussion gets interesting. Lets use race. What if someone doesnt like chinese people (or whatever) but isnt openly agressive about it? (remarks, comments etc) that its his/her choice and keeps it to themselves. So they are not harming anyone.

So boards.ie would you respect that persons choice?
or would you not?

we are told? who is telling you to be respectful? tv?

Bloody Nipples

orourkeda wrote: »

You may try to move past them, but its always there. Maybe in the background, but it's there nonetheless.

But if it's not acted on is it relevant?

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

I agree. I don't mind if someone's racist in thought (if they keep it internal how would I know anyway), and everyone has at least little racist thoughts.
The important thing for me is whether people act on that, or try to disadvantage certain groups in some way.

Racist actions are not always obvious. In fact, I'd venture to say that a lot of racist action is really subtle. You donlt have to be a flag carrying neo nazi to act in a racist manner.

LighterGuy

I might as well say this in this thread. (since we're on about race)

I find more and more alot of "racism" depends on gender.
For example, a racist white guy will have no problem having sex with a sexy black girl.
And a racist black guy will have no problem having sex with a hot white girl. And of course vice versa genders.

So what defines racism? when you think about it.

The King of Moo

orourkeda wrote: »

I dont believe we can.

Life just teaches us to be at least wary of certain sections of society. Thats just the way people are.

It does teach us that in different ways. But it can also teach us to change those prejudices, through experiences that make us change our minds. Our views of certain groups can change for better or worse.
Prejudice can be fluid, and probably most people do have some form of it, but I'd imagine there were at least a few people out there who would have told you they hated the Brits 20 years ago who were happy to see Liz visit today.

orourkeda

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

But if it's not acted on is it relevant?

Someone could act on their racial, religious or other predujices and you may never even know about. Racist motivation doesnt have to be expressed to be acted upon.

starbelgrade

LighterGuy wrote: »

I might as well say this in this thread. (since we're on about race)

I find more and more alot of "racism" depends on gender.
For example, a racist white guy will have no problem having sex with a sexy black girl.
And a racist black guy will have no problem having sex with a hot white girl. And of course vice versa genders.

So what defines racism? when you think about it.

A dislike of unsexy people?

Bloody Nipples

Actually I have to admit I missed the part of the OP's post where he mentioned if they weren't being forthright with their views.

On that basis, I wouldn't respect a racist person's viewpoint because it has no basis in actual reality, but at the same time I wouldn't try to convert them.

The King of Moo

orourkeda wrote: »

Racist actions are not always obvious. In fact, I'd venture to say that a lot of racist action is really subtle. You donlt have to be a flag carrying neo nazi to act in a racist manner.

Agree, I dislike the subtle actions also. A dirty look here, or a snigger there, if it's noticed by the person it's aimed at, or maybe influences another person's views.

If I were to suffer from racism I'd obviously hate the overt hateful racism, but those little things would also get under my skin and stay there.

Revolution9

LighterGuy wrote: »

Agree 150%
sadly there are alot of people who say one thing, but really are the other.

You mean like someone saying they aren't racist but agreeing 150% with a statement which says everyone is indeed racist?

Bruthal

LighterGuy wrote: »

I find more and more alot of "racism" depends on gender.
For example, a racist white guy will have no problem having sex with a sexy black girl.

Especially if its the chinese he doesnt like.

Mickeroo

Interesting question. I guess if someone really dislikes a particular race but doesn't act on it in any way then thats their business and no-one elses. The thing is though if a prejudice is really strong then it would be hard for it not to manifest itself in that person's behavour somehow, also I think there's a clear difference between outright racism(hatred) towards a particular group and a prejudice. Everyone has prejudice's of some sort but not everyone is a racist.

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

It does teach us that in different ways. But it can also teach us to change those prejudices, through experiences that make us change our minds. Our views of certain groups can change for better or worse.
Prejudice can be fluid, and probably most people do have some form of it, but I'd imagine there were at least a few people out there who would have told you they hated the Brits 20 years ago who were happy to see Liz visit today.

People change. Opinions and viewpoints change with time. This is true. Real hatred never dies though.

citizen_p

Racism and prejudice - Should people respect a persons choice?

you don't choose your Race.....

definition:
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.

Bruthal

Mousey- wrote: »

you don't choose your Race.....

I think the poster meant should you respect their choice to be racist, not what race they are.

LighterGuy

Mousey- wrote: »

you don't choose your Race.....

definition:
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.

urgh, i knew someone would say that :rolleyes:
First there were spelling nazis, then grammer nazis, now definition nazis. :rolleyes:
You know what it meant. Please, this is just as bad as saying "the correct phrase is 'you're' not 'your' in this sentence" :rolleyes:

The King of Moo

LighterGuy wrote: »

urgh, i knew someone would say that :rolleyes:
First there were spelling nazis, then grammer nazis, now definition nazis. :rolleyes:
You know what it meant. Please, this is just as bad as saying "the correct phrase is 'you're' not 'your' in this sentence" :rolleyes:

I'm prejudiced against grammar and spelling nazis

conscious

LighterGuy wrote: »

For the record myself and my friend are not racist or prejudice in any kind. But this thread is born out of what was said today in a random conversation.

Something interesting popped up. We are told to be respectful of a persons choice (religion, sexuality, race etc) ... so what if it happens that a person was a racist? .. that their personal choice is that they dont like certain people, for what ever reason.

Now, this where the discussion gets interesting. Lets use race. What if someone doesnt like chinese people (or whatever) but isnt openly agressive about it? (remarks, comments etc) that its his/her choice and keeps it to themselves. So they are not harming anyone.

So boards.ie would you respect that persons choice?
or would you not?

Definitely, you are entitled to be racist as long as you don't harm others be doing so! Best option is to steer clear of the people you don't like!

digme

Kids as young as 6 months judge others based on skin colour

It takes remarkably little for children to develop in-group preferences. Vittrup's mentor at the University of Texas, Rebecca Bigler, ran an experiment in three preschool classrooms, where 4- and 5-year-olds were lined up and given T shirts. Half the kids were randomly given blue T shirts, half red. The children wore the shirts for three weeks. During that time, the teachers never mentioned their colors and never grouped the kids by shirt color.


The kids didn't segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. "The Reds never showed hatred for Blues," Bigler observed. "It was more like, 'Blues are fine, but not as good as us.' " When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they'd answer, "All of us." Asked how many Blues were nice, they'd answer, "Some." Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb—but not the Reds.

This is all built into us at birth and deep down we all think this way,your just too much of a pussy to say otherwise.

The King of Moo

Reading the original post again a thought occurred. While I've no problem with people's private opinions, how would I know what they were unless they communicated them to me?
Therefore if someone I knew indicated they were racist, even casually racist, it'd probably bug me about them and I'd think of them differently.
So in that case, I'd probably tell them to cop on.

The King of Moo

digme wrote: »

Kids as young as 6 months judge others based on skin colour

It takes remarkably little for children to develop in-group preferences. Vittrup's mentor at the University of Texas, Rebecca Bigler, ran an experiment in three preschool classrooms, where 4- and 5-year-olds were lined up and given T shirts. Half the kids were randomly given blue T shirts, half red. The children wore the shirts for three weeks. During that time, the teachers never mentioned their colors and never grouped the kids by shirt color.


The kids didn't segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. "The Reds never showed hatred for Blues," Bigler observed. "It was more like, 'Blues are fine, but not as good as us.' " When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they'd answer, "All of us." Asked how many Blues were nice, they'd answer, "Some." Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb—but not the Reds.

So that's why Liverpool and Everton fans hate each other!

BickNarry

orourkeda wrote: »

Everybody is racist and\or prejudiced.

I refuse to believe anyone who suggests that they do not hold any grudges, disdain, hatred, disrespect, comtempt or any other negative feeling towards at least one discernible group of people.

All we need to do is scratch the surface to identify another persons prejudices

Arguments like this are truly harmful. They reinforce negative behaviour as if it's human nature. (People who make these claims usually don't actually know what human nature invloves.)

First of all, it all depends on how you define racism and whats constitutes as racist behaviour.

Second of all is interpretation. Distinguishing physical features can mask cultural differences, or geographical reasons can influence decisions (familiarity).

'grudges, disdain, hatred, disrespect, comtempt' are all different thigs and only combined and focused invlove actual racism. Someone could just be a dick.

The question was should be we be respectful of racist attitudes.

I think under absolutely no circumstances should we tolerate any form of racist attitudes. An easy way to think of is that as a society we aim to reinforce positive behaviour and discourage negative behaviour. I don't think anyone can argue that racism is positive. Also, there is no scientific credible evidence for a racist claims that some races are inferior. Even those studys that racists cite, such as lower I.Q in certain tribes, have been explained as much more complex. (evolutionary due to repetitative lifestyles and geogrpahical isolation.)

Then there are moral considerations, which I don't feel warrants a discussion.

Bruthal

I dont like the reds either.

Bruthal

digme wrote: »

Kids as young as 6 months judge others based on skin colour

It takes remarkably little for children to develop in-group preferences. Vittrup's mentor at the University of Texas, Rebecca Bigler, ran an experiment in three preschool classrooms, where 4- and 5-year-olds were lined up and given T shirts. Half the kids were randomly given blue T shirts, half red. The children wore the shirts for three weeks. During that time, the teachers never mentioned their colors and never grouped the kids by shirt color.


The kids didn't segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. "The Reds never showed hatred for Blues," Bigler observed. "It was more like, 'Blues are fine, but not as good as us.' " When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they'd answer, "All of us." Asked how many Blues were nice, they'd answer, "Some." Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb—but not the Reds.

This is all built into us at birth and deep down we all think this way,your just too much of a pussy to say otherwise.

Well many of us learn that its not required to be like that, but not everyone.

orourkeda

The King of Moo wrote: »

Reading the original post again a thought occurred. While I've no problem with people's private opinions, how would I know what they were unless they communicated them to me?
Therefore if someone I knew indicated they were racist, even casually racist, it'd probably bug me about them and I'd think of them differently.
So in that case, I'd probably tell them to cop on.

But if someone holds those views why keep them a secret? Personally, I've long since given up lying to keep up some airy fairy PC facade. The risk of offending someone else with my opinions on other people wouldn't bother me particularly. I dont see the point in lying about these things. Having said that I wouldn't go around broadcasting them necessarily, but if it came up I cant see the point in lying.

Chips on ones shoulder are nothing to be proud or ashamed of. They're simply a part of who you are.

digme

BickNarry wrote: »

Also, there is no scientific credible evidence for a racist claims that some races are inferior. Even those studys that racists cite, such as lower I.Q in certain tribes, have been explained as much more complex. (evolutionary due to repetitative lifestyles and geogrpahical isolation.)

Then there are moral considerations, which I don't feel warrants a discussion.

You assume there isn't any science.And if there is, you call the scientist a racist,but science isn't racist.So where does that leave you?

digme

robbie7730 wrote: »

Well many of us learn that its not required to be like that, but not everyone.

liar

Bruthal

orourkeda wrote: »

But if someone holds those views why keep them a secret? Personally, I've long since given up lying to keep up some airy fairy PC facade. The risk of offending someone else with my opinions on other people wouldn't bother me particularly. I dont see the point in lying about these things. Having said that I wouldn't go around broadcasting them necessarily, but if it came up I cant see the point in lying.

Chips on ones shoulder are nothing to be proud or ashamed of. They're simply a part of who you are.

Some views people have are best being kept secret.

orourkeda

robbie7730 wrote: »

Some views people have are best being kept secret.

Only because the person hearing them doesn't like them.

It doesn't matter what the person hearing them thinks though does it.

Bruthal

digme wrote: »

liar

I hate everyone, is that racist?