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Dublin Port Tunnel Thread

  • 17-05-2011 9:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,085 ✭✭✭ veryangryman


    I dont see any existing so...

    Lets start with an idea. Is there anyone for the idea of making vehicular traffic toll free (or at least lower the toll to €3 at all times).

    Especially now that the Metro North is getting canned.

    I know the 5 axle ban from city, what if theres a breakdown in the tunnel etc, but surely the city could be reopened temporarily for them in such cases.

    If toll reduced to €3, there would also be increased toll revenue for the department of transport. Force more buses to use the Tunnel also. Any Bus Eireann inter-city service for instance. Stupid that they are currently forced to squeeze through the Quays


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭ donkey balls


    Some of the bus companies private&semi state use the tunnel as it is free as for the five axel ban thats between 0700-1900 there has been times for operational purposes they close it which means the the five axel ban is lifted.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    The tunnel has been toll-free to buses and trucks since day one so modifying the prices will do nothing for that. Reducing/removing it for taxis would, however, help with the airport element of MN traffic in the interim.

    There is still the problem of the road network to and most importantly *from* the city portal to the CC often being tortously slow though.

    Buses that aren't using it are either not allowed to by the NTA; or are serving areas on the surface in between the north portal and the city centre.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 mgmt


    MYOB wrote: »

    There is still the problem of the road network to and most importantly *from* the city portal to the CC often being tortously slow though.

    Has the Grand Canal Bridge linking the east link with Sir Rogerson Quay being shelved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,106 antoobrien


    I know the 5 axle ban from city, what if theres a breakdown in the tunnel etc, but surely the city could be reopened temporarily for them in such cases.

    If toll reduced to €3, there would also be increased toll revenue for the department of transport.

    The tolls have already been reducded to €3 except for the 2 peak times (6am-10am south & 4pm-7pm north) when they're €10. I'm not so sure about how good an idea it is to make it €3 all day (I assume that's your proposal), the whole idea of high tolls on the tunnel is to keep private cars out of it at peak times. I don't think that the extra revenue (not sure if this is the same model as the ppp toll roads, will the dept get the revenue?) is worth the hassle it will cause.

    The reason the 5 axle ban works so well is that the trucks have a free run at the tunnel. I cycle to work in the east wall area (near the port), it was very hairy at certain times of day with the amount of trucks in the area before the tunnel opened. Now it's much easier for everyone to get around.

    Take out the (advertised) reason for trucks to use the tunnel (apart from it being free for them or they wouldn't use it anyways) then they'll just go back to clogging up the quays again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    mgmt wrote: »
    Has the Grand Canal Bridge linking the east link with Sir Rogerson Quay being shelved.

    Well that Bridge was a "public transport" bridge that would link Ringsend to Sir John Rogerson Quay. It wouldn't have had a direct link to East Link. It would also have only been for use by Bikes and Buses (no cars)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭ cargo


    I had suggested something along these lines on a DPT thread here before but got little comment.

    I always thought the taxi's were free to use the tunnel so if not I think it would be good to let them through for free. It would take pressure off other routes to the airport while not clogging up the DPT. Also I think (need to declare a vested interest here!!) that smaller commercials could be allowed use it too or even reduced to €3 all day for these vehicles. They are paying "commercial" rates at all other toll points but yet don't get the benefit of the commercial designation through the DPT.

    Again this would remove traffic from adjacent routes and still not overload the DPT. (Don't have figures for the flows so I am only assuming it wouldnt overload the tunnel)

    Even if it's only NB to take traffic out of the city and not into the city it'd be a help. Might have a knock-on effect around the Port / Docklands with more people using that route though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭ dubhthach


    My Office has a direct view of Toll booth on Port Tunnel (we are on 4th floor). There's always a fair bit of traffic going through it. I use it myself anytime I need to go to the Airport. Currently the toll is €10 during rush-hour (southbound in morning, northbound in evening). All other times its currently set to €3

    http://www.dublinporttunnel.ie/tolls_and_permitted_vehicles/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭ bryangiggsy


    antoobrien wrote: »
    The tolls have already been reducded to €3 except for the 2 peak times (6am-10am south & 4pm-7pm north) when they're €10. I'm not so sure about how good an idea it is to make it €3 all day (I assume that's your proposal), the whole idea of high tolls on the tunnel is to keep private cars out of it at peak times. I don't think that the extra revenue (not sure if this is the same model as the ppp toll roads, will the dept get the revenue?) is worth the hassle it will cause.

    The reason the 5 axle ban works so well is that the trucks have a free run at the tunnel. I cycle to work in the east wall area (near the port), it was very hairy at certain times of day with the amount of trucks in the area before the tunnel opened. Now it's much easier for everyone to get around.

    Take out the (advertised) reason for trucks to use the tunnel (apart from it being free for them or they wouldn't use it anyways) then they'll just go back to clogging up the quays again.

    Would have to disagree with you there. The free run at the tunnel imo would stil lexist if more cars were allowed through it.Its a big tunnel. Have gone through it at rush hour many times and it has always struck me how under utilised this asset is. Going into town it is torture from just past the tunnel entrance into town and frankly im surprised there has not been a campaign of regular M1 commuters or residents from santry whitehall and drumcondra hopping on board to try and take some of the backlog off the streets. I call it the wealthy mans tunnel..as a lot of the cars u see going through it at rush hour southbound am and northbound pm are high end vehicles who obviously can afford the 10 euro...bmw's and merc's galore :D The 5 axle ban in the city would still be enforced even if more traffic was allowed to pass through and i dont believe travel times would be greatly affected. Drop the price to 3 euro for everyone at all times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,210 ✭✭✭ donkey balls


    What I would like to know is why does the tunnel close between 2300hrs to 0500 nearly every week day night,I understand maintenance has to be carried out but closing it every week seems to be a bit much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,546 ✭✭✭ bryangiggsy


    What I would like to know is why does the tunnel close between 2300hrs to 0500 nearly every week day night,I understand maintenance has to be carried out but closing it every week seems to be a bit much.


    Because the guy that sits in his car at the northside entrance to the tunnel 365 days a year has to sleep sometime :D


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 Wild Bill


    What I would like to know is why does the tunnel close between 2300hrs to 0500 nearly every week day night,I understand maintenance has to be carried out but closing it every week seems to be a bit much.

    Very good question - and an amazing result when you think what the tunnel cost.

    If it's the cost of maintaining the toll staff then it would be more appropriate to simply make the tunnel free at night.

    Also, coming from the Airport you usually find out the tunnel is closed after you've passed the M50 southbound.

    Frankly, someone should be taken out and shot for this gross incompetence. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Very good question - and an amazing result when you think what the tunnel cost.

    If it's the cost of maintaining the toll staff then it would be more appropriate to simply make the tunnel free at night.

    Also, coming from the Airport you usually find out the tunnel is closed after you've passed the M50 southbound.

    Frankly, someone should be taken out and shot for this gross incompetence. :cool:
    I asked the tunnel people why their website doesn't show closures (after getting a 33x, which turned left at the Gibson hotel, meandered through to east wall road, onto Alfie Byrne road, Clontarf road, past Fairview park, towards Annesley bridge, then back east on East wall road and then to the m50/tunnel)
    They got back to me and said they show planned closures....
    I asked why they can show closures on signs dozens of km away but cannot dynamically link their website to the tunnel control system.
    The person will of course pass my email on as they are always looking at ways of improving their service. I wasn't told who the complaint will be passed onto as I presume the corpo negotiated the operational contract and it never crossed their mind that this might be a good thing....


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 Wild Bill


    Not near good enough, is it? :mad:

    Surely we deserve to be told why the tunnel is closed so many nights?

    Ask them:

    Is there a problem with it?

    Is it a question of tolls not covering the toll operating costs at night?

    Just come clean - WHY do you close the tunnel so often?

    Is there any good reason you folks shouldn't be all sacked right now? :mad:

    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭✭ chooochooo


    Would have to disagree with you there. The free run at the tunnel imo would stil lexist if more cars were allowed through it.Its a big tunnel. Have gone through it at rush hour many times and it has always struck me how under utilised this asset is. Going into town it is torture from just past the tunnel entrance into town and frankly im surprised there has not been a campaign of regular M1 commuters or residents from santry whitehall and drumcondra hopping on board to try and take some of the backlog off the streets. I call it the wealthy mans tunnel..as a lot of the cars u see going through it at rush hour southbound am and northbound pm are high end vehicles who obviously can afford the 10 euro...bmw's and merc's galore :D The 5 axle ban in the city would still be enforced even if more traffic was allowed to pass through and i dont believe travel times would be greatly affected. Drop the price to 3 euro for everyone at all times.
    It's hilarious how often this chestnut comes up no matter how many times it's answered.
    The reason for the 10 Euro peak time toll is to LIMIT the amount of cars using it. The tunnel CANNOT cater for the volume of peak time traffic for safety reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭ cgarrad


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Not near good enough, is it? :mad:

    Surely we deserve to be told why the tunnel is closed so many nights?

    Ask them:

    Is there a problem with it?

    Is it a question of tolls not covering the toll operating costs at night?

    Just come clean - WHY do you close the tunnel so often?

    Is there any good reason you folks shouldn't be all sacked right now? :mad:

    :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


    Still leaking, i was going northbound about 3 weeks ago and the surface was very wet about 1km in. I drive a motorbike so i notice standing water ;-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,974 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    How about a park & ride facility in the docks? Take the tunnel southbound, park the car somewhere there and take the bus through to the city centre like the Cork P&R does?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    The rules are the 5 axle ban can only be lifted to allow these HGV's into the city by the traffic superintendent from Dublin Castle Garda Traffic. Normal practice is that if the tunnel or bore has to close during the ban there is a wait time of 45 minutes in general before it is lifted, unless it is known that the bore or tunnel will be closed for longer than that.

    The tunnel or tunnel bore is not closed in general for a breakdown, just the lane the vehicle is in. Traffic might be delayed slightly to allow the recovery company to 'connect up' safely.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    Tunnel was closed two nights a week for scheduled maintenance with closure details on the operating companies website or through www.dublinporttunnel.ie .. These are currently being reduced by 50% as of May '12 and I understand that this will mean it will close for 3 nights 1 week, none the following week, then once on the 3rd week and then no closure on the 4th week. Check out the website. Daytime closures are not permitted unless an urgent matter needs to be addressed or due to a technical issue. And know the tunnel is not 'leaking'.... silly boy. However every tunnel 'weeps' due to rain water travelling through the sail above... this is dealt with by positive drains that draw this away for the tunnel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    There was a closure yesterday stopping a load of ulster fans going to lansdowne road yesterday. Dunno if it was volume not being able to get through the toll or something else


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    There was a closure yesterday stopping a load of ulster fans going to lansdowne road yesterday. Dunno if it was volume not being able to get through the toll or something else
    Hey there,

    There was no actual planned 'closure' per sa yesterday... The only thing I can suggest is that an 'over height' vehicle triggered an alarm (they get a few hundred a month, mainly grab lorry's who's cranes have not been stowed properly) and the South bore (into the city) not the tunnel was momentary closed to ensure the vehicle took the Whitehall slip, or needed to be directed to take it.

    If not then the cause might have been at the O2 roundabout as there was an event on there as well, causing a short delay as no congestion is permitted in the tunnel at any time....

    The tunnel itself was running perfectly..

    Volume of traffic was not a problem, plus extra staff were brought into cover the increase in traffic.

    Tunnel is designed to take and operate conformable 30,000 + vehicles per day with its current tolling configuration.

    Cheers


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,638 ✭✭✭✭ Mr.Crinklewood


    I'd love to take a run in the tunnel. Would Love if they closed it one Sunday morning for a competitive run.

    Or, have a race between two people. One in each tunnel, in effect running blind against each other without a clue where the other was. If the tunnels are not the same length just have the two runners start at either end of the tunnel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    Traffic was stopped back to the m1 and there lads crossing back from the verge after toilet breaks, which would suggest more than "momentarily closed"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    Toilets right next to their vehicle... they shouldn't be crossing anywhere. Their manager wont be happy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    I'd love to take a run in the tunnel. Would Love if they closed it one Sunday morning for a competitive run.

    Or, have a race between two people. One in each tunnel, in effect running blind against each other without a clue where the other was. If the tunnels are not the same length just have the two runners start at either end of the tunnel.
    looks like its going to happen ... :) 12/08/2012


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,295 ✭✭✭✭ Mint Sauce


    transr0ute wrote: »
    looks like its going to happen ... :) 12/08/2012

    Link?

    :confused:


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,664 CMod ✭✭✭✭ spurious


    transr0ute wrote: »

    Volume of traffic was not a problem, plus extra staff were brought into cover the increase in traffic.

    Came through at 16.20 yesterday and there was an almighty jam at the toll booths, of which only half were operating.
    Then there was a further delay due to an Ulsterbus which appeared broken down in the left hand lane heading towards the Point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    spurious wrote: »
    Came through at 16.20 yesterday and there was an almighty jam at the toll booths, of which only half were operating.
    Then there was a further delay due to an Ulsterbus which appeared broken down in the left hand lane heading towards the Point.
    The bus would have been a problem.

    Re availability... the plaza configuration is 5 lanes in each direction. The far left is for HGV and buses only with 1 one lane, usually far right dedicated to electronic tag holders only (a requirement) there would have been 2 to 3 lanes with a physically operator. I understand there were some delays with a couple of drivers refusing to pay which inevitably causes delays as they are held until they either pay or give some form of valid ID... etc.... forms then have to be filled in.

    If you have a tag its by far the quickest way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    Not tunnel staff, ulster rugby people going in the ditch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭✭✭ transr0ute


    irish-stew wrote: »
    Link?

    :confused:
    no link yet... when DCC give approval in sure there will be one


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭ cargo


    transr0ute wrote: »
    spurious wrote: »
    Came through at 16.20 yesterday and there was an almighty jam at the toll booths, of which only half were operating.
    Then there was a further delay due to an Ulsterbus which appeared broken down in the left hand lane heading towards the Point.
    The bus would have been a problem.

    Re availability... the plaza configuration is 5 lanes in each direction. The far left is for HGV and buses only with 1 one lane, usually far right dedicated to electronic tag holders only (a requirement) there would have been 2 to 3 lanes with a physically operator. I understand there were some delays with a couple of drivers refusing to pay which inevitably causes delays as they are held until they either pay or give some form of valid ID... etc.... forms then have to be filled in.

    If you have a tag its by far the quickest way.


    Why would u have guys refusing to pay? NI drivers with no Euro? People saying they didn't know it was a toll road etc? Was this SB or NB?


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