Irish history for kids

FinnLizzy

Can anyone tell me what the first bits of information on Irish history were? Like, did you ever hear buzz words (such as: 1916, 800 years, GPO, potatoe famine, etc.) as a child and piece it all together?

For instance, as a child, this is what I thought irish history was:
In the years before 1916, Ireland was a lovely country ruled by ourselves without the British. Then, for no other reason other than the British being pr*cks!, they came over and oppressed us. They did stuff like shoot people playing GAA (Michael Collins came out when I was 4) and somehow forced us to stop speaking Irish.
The Irish fought them out that very year, wouldja believe it?
Anyways, til this day, they are in the North being pricks and no one wants them there! (not even the large amount of unionists that violently want them there, but I didn't know about them)

After a while, I learned other interesting facts: it wasn't a war of Catholic vs. Protestants, so I then stopped burning poo on Proddy doorsteps, .

Can anyone else tell me some misconceptions they had about Irish history as a child?

The King of Moo

I never knew the I.R.A were "fighting" for Irish independence. I'm not sure exactly what I thought they were doing when I heard about them on the news all the time. I think I thought they were generic baddies, but I was definitely sure they were anti-Irish.
Was pretty young then though:o

FinnLizzy

The King of Moo wrote: »

I never knew the I.R.A were "fighting" for Irish independence. I'm not sure exactly what I thought they were doing when I heard about them on the news all the time. I think I thought they were generic baddies, but I was definitely sure they were anti-Irish.
Was pretty young then though:o

My childhood self couldn't disagree with you more. I thought the IRA were our current army. I'd see them standing outside banks. If that were the case now, I'd be supprised to see them NOT robbing them.

deathrider

You mean that's not how it happened? :eek:

brummytom

FinnLizzy wrote: »

For instance, as a child, this is what I thought irish history was:
In the years before 1916, Ireland was a lovely country ruled by ourselves without the British. Then, for no other reason other than the British being pr*cks!, they came over and oppressed us. They did stuff like shoot people playing GAA (Michael Collins came out when I was 4)

Jesus, that's one for the tabloids

Mrmoe

The history I remember being taught from a young age had more to to with ancient Irish history and fables such as Fionn MacCool and CuChulainn.

Show Time

Mrmoe wrote: »

The history I remember being thought from a young age had more to to with ancient Irish history and fables such as Fionn MacCool and the CuChulainn.

My uncle(and Godfather) God rest his soul use to always read me all those stories as a small lad, It was thanks to him that i developed my love of history as a subject and old Irish history as a passion.

mniccaba

When I was very young I thought Ireland and England where one mass of land that where separated by the IRA fighting to make us our own country. Ah to be an innocent child!

El Guapo!

My grandad used to tell me stories about being beaten up for no reason by the Black and Tans and stuff like that. I used to hang onto his every word and found it fascinating.

That's probably my earliest memory of learning Irish history. I liked it in school but the way it was taught made me lose interest. You know the typical Irish education system- "Learn off the next 4 paragraphs by Monday". Why can't they make it more interesting??!!

FinnLizzy

Dean09 wrote: »

My grandad used to tell me stories about being beaten up for no reason by the Black and Tans and stuff like that. I used to hang onto his every word and found it fascinating.

That's probably my earliest memory of learning Irish history. I liked it in school but the way it was taught made me lose interest. You know the typical Irish education system- "Learn off the next 4 paragraphs by Monday". Why can't they make it more interesting??!!

Jaysus! Beaten up by the black and tans? I'd say you developed quite a hatred for Africans and Spanish!

Magic Eight Ball

When I was young I thought the Jedi were somehow involved in the conflict.

The King of Moo

Magic Eight Ball wrote: »

When I was young I thought the Jedi were somehow involved in the conflict.

*waves hand*
"The Jedi were not involved in the conflict."

Magic Eight Ball, in monotone: "The Jedi were not involved in the conflict."

Wolfe Tone

I remember being bored to sh!t hearing about them poxy ceide fields

Shryke

Fin Mac Cool and some stuff about this bull that was just fantastic. Then kids that were turned to swans. Couldn't give a crap about them. I bought a newer version of The Tain recently but haven't read it yet. My Irish legends are all mixed up!
I never cared about the troubles or any of that except that anyone who blows people up are assholes. I learned that at an early age.

El Guapo!

FinnLizzy wrote: »

Jaysus! Beaten up by the black and tans? I'd say you developed quite a hatred for Africans and Spanish!

El Guapo!

Shryke wrote: »

Fin Mac Cool and some stuff about this bull that was just fantastic. Then kids that were turned to swans. Couldn't give a crap about them. I bought a newer version of The Tain recently but haven't read it yet. My Irish legends are all mixed up!
I never cared about the troubles or any of that except that anyone who blows people up are assholes. I learned that at an early age.

I don't mean anything bad to you personally but that sentence shows ignorance and a lack of knowledge on the subject. And that seems to be the case with a lot of people. Through no fault of their own they have the same mentality that was just forced on them from a young age.

Shryke

That's grand Dean. You can just call me ignorant or actually explain yourself.

El Guapo!

Again as I said I don't mean to call you ignorant I was just saying a lot of people aren't taught the ins and outs of Irish History and are just told that "IRA terrorists" went on hunger strike and thats that. If you asked a lot of younger people today what they know about the troubles it would probably be very little for the most part. You'd prob only hear back "the IRA blew everyone up" or something along those lines.
I just mean there needs to be more education on the subject and more emphasis put on it in school. Again apologies for any offence caused.

Sefirah

When it comes to learning Irish history, it really does start at home. From a very young age, it was made very clear to me who the 'goodies' and 'baddies' were. Shortly before I was born, my dad (while on duty in the gardaí) was caught up in a terrorist incident which left him unable to work, and certainly his experiences growing up in the north but being forced to leave because of all the hassle and discrimination completely altered my worldview. Secondary school education only confirmed that they were assholes, and it's only now since I've started studying history in UCD that I've become more open to other outlooks

PK2008

Irish History 101..

The Brits came over and took all our potatoes, forcing millions to move to America and buy U2 albums..

There was a good IRA and a bad IRA- Both ended up killing a load of fellow Irish people while the Brits looked on in bemusement...

There were priests that controlled people by telling them they were sinners on a Sunday and then raped their kids after mass.

We gave Europe the Riverdance and they gave us a credit card which we promptly maxed out on a massive piss up called the Celtic tiger

.....and thats pretty much where we are today.

Tune in next week to find out how a Russian with a moustache and a German with a moustache, both used there moustaches for the forces of evil..........

Shryke

Dean09 wrote: »

Again as I said I don't mean to call you ignorant I was just saying a lot of people aren't taught the ins and outs of Irish History and are just told that "IRA terrorists" went on hunger strike and thats that. If you asked a lot of younger people today what they know about the troubles it would probably be very little for the most part. You'd prob only hear back "the IRA blew everyone up" or something along those lines.
I just mean there needs to be more education on the subject and more emphasis put on it in school. Again apologies for any offence caused.

That's grand, but I'm not ignorant of the facts. I still disagree to a large degree with the operations of the IRA. More education would be great, if only to stop clowns blaring Up the RA and that kind of stuff.

Irish Guitarist

In primary school our history classes were spent learning about Fionn MacCumhaill and other Irish myths and legends. These stories were thought to us as if they were facts. We learned a bit about the plantations in secondary school but as far as I remember we never got as far as the IRA.

Xivilai

I can remember being seriously bored reading about the Flight of the Earls etc. and Oliver Cromwell in Primary School

I don't remember much but I do remember me and a friend joking about a dude called Napper Tandy, we decided he was Nappa from Dragonball Z.

Capt'n Midnight

The one date I can remember from primary school history.

The Synod of Bishops was in 1111

Elmo

FinnLizzy wrote: »

For instance, as a child, this is what I thought irish history was:
In the years before 1916, Ireland was a lovely country ruled by ourselves without the British. Then, for no other reason other than the British being pr*cks!, they came over and oppressed us. They did stuff like shoot people playing GAA (Michael Collins came out when I was 4) and somehow forced us to stop speaking Irish.
The Irish fought them out that very year, wouldja believe it?
Anyways, til this day, they are in the North being pricks and no one wants them there! (not even the large amount of unionists that violently want them there, but I didn't know about them)

Up to what age did you think this? Before 1916 we rule ourselves!

I think outlooks and views should be thought at a later stage, let people form their own opinions based on the facts (The why will be asked). Then they can come on boards and argue to their hearts content

In primary we did Irish Myths and Legends, The Great Famine, O'Connell, but then I had a teacher who brought us to all of the buildings in Dublin city telling us about the architecture, we also did allot about Irish Art Jack B. Yeats. And we play chess! haha! I must be a posh republican.

Imagine trying to teach a child about the Bank Bailout. The English beat up the Irish but before that the Irish had kings and queens up to 1916 then a Biffo starting building and people bought huge houses that they could not afford so their was a Famine and then the English and some other countries gave money to Ireland to feed the poor and we're still suffering 800 years later.

darragh16

In 1170, Dermott McMurrough invited the Strongbow over, the english followed and 800+ years later here we are...

bonerm

FinnLizzy wrote: »

potatoe famine

Hmmm

RMD

I remember my dad always getting incredibly pissed off at the latest news of a bombing. He was (rightfully) convinced peace and democracy was the only way forward so every time the news came on and there was another bombing, he spent a few minutes shouting "fúcking scumbags" repeatedly over and over at the TV :pac:

Other than that, I did most of my Irish history "educating" myself, been reading books about Irish history and the Troubles since I was about 12-13.

Zebra3

I think it's shameful that the Great Famine is not recognised as the genocide which it was.

A nation full of quislings. :mad:

One only has to look at the gobshites protesting against the Brits today in Seltic, Unira, and Heyselmurder football shirts. :rolleyes:

Tossers.

citizen_p

I liked history and was generally pretty savy in it, so I generally understood it...

Elmo

Zebra3 wrote: »

One only has to look at the gobshites protesting against the Brits today in Seltic, Unira, and Heyselmurder football shirts. :rolleyes:.

Many people wouldn't consider Scottish as British in the sense of who was in charge. Many people referred for many years to Britain as England forgetting either Scotland and Wales. This is in terms of a Celtic Jersey. But yes Irish people follow English teams, and Irish players play for them. But I would blame the bad organisations that run soccer in Ireland for that.

FinnLizzy

Elmo wrote: »

Up to what age did you think this? Before 1916 we rule ourselves!

I think outlooks and views should be thought at a later stage, let people form their own opinions based on the facts (The why will be asked). Then they can come on boards and argue to their hearts content

In primary we did Irish Myths and Legends, The Great Famine, O'Connell, but then I had a teacher who brought us to all of the buildings in Dublin city telling us about the architecture, we also did allot about Irish Art Jack B. Yeats. And we play chess! haha! I must be a posh republican.

Imagine trying to teach a child about the Bank Bailout. The English beat up the Irish but before that the Irish had kings and queens up to 1916 then a Biffo starting building and people bought huge houses that they could not afford so their was a Famine and then the English and some other countries gave money to Ireland to feed the poor and we're still suffering 800 years later.

I thought that the whole carry on that was the War of Independence all happened in 1916. I dunno what age I was when I learned the whole 800 years malarky, but I had alot of thinking to be done!
I saw bits of Michael Collins and didn't really know what was going on, but mentions of Irish history involed 1916 so I thought that was where it all kicked off.
And I thought Michael Collins was killed by Brits... black and white (or tanned) history:D

Niles

Let's see, Cattle raid of Cooley, Strongbow, Battle of the Boyne, Walter Raleigh brought us potatoes, 1798, the Famine. Oh and the Vikings, can't forget the Vikings. I recall a former teacher of mine criticising the history syllabus at primary level as being laid out of chronological order, can't recall if this was the case when I was in primary though.

It's kind of mad the way Irish legends are thought as part of history in primary school with little to indicate that they are fiction. Funnily enough I don't remember 1916 coming up much until secondary school though the Famine and 1798 did (growing up in the south east meant that the latter was practically drummed into us anyway).

Kojak

We learnt that back in the day everyone believed in leprechauns and listened to the priest for moral advice. Good to see they had they're heads screwed on anyways....

El Siglo

Sefirah wrote: »

When it comes to learning Irish history, it really does start at home. From a very young age, it was made very clear to me who the 'goodies' and 'baddies' were. Shortly before I was born, my dad (while on duty in the gardaí) was caught up in a terrorist incident which left him unable to work, and certainly his experiences growing up in the north but being forced to leave because of all the hassle and discrimination completely altered my worldview. Secondary school education only confirmed that they were assholes, and it's only now since I've started studying history in UCD that I've become more open to other outlooks

That's called "revisionism", I suppose Susannah Riordan has done the usual Ruth Dudley-Edwards "blood sacrifice" and "undemocratic" actions of the Pearse et al. and the Irish Republican movement of the 1918-21?

stovelid

My first historical memory was seeing a picture of Kitty O Shea and wondering why Parnell went to all that bother?

up for anything

It seems to me like I've know each and every penal law since before I could speak thanks to the primary history book of the 60s and 70s. It was pretty much the same one in every school back then. Does anyone remember what it was called?

The same with the geography book - it had all the counties and main towns listed at the back listed with what they produced. Mallow: sugar beet, Carrick-on-Suir: Miloko, etc. I doubt many of those towns listed produce any of the products they used to any more.

The Brigadier

Bit of a side topic on this but looking back is anyone surprised at the lack of depth in the secondary school history curriculum?

I remember Inter Cert history seemed to start about 1850. It was as if nothing in Ireland happened before then.

Elmo

The Brigadier wrote: »

I remember Inter Cert history seemed to start about 1850. It was as if nothing in Ireland happened before then.

Junior Cert history covers a huge amount including the Renaissance, archeology, primary & secondary sources, European history, Modern Irish History, The Famine and the Act of Union, flight of the earls etc. It maybe a little to broad.

When I did leaving cert History it began in 1870 and covered both Irish and European History. There was also a second history course before 1870 going back to the Flight of the Earls etc, up to the school which course they taught.

pickarooney

We started with the stone age, then it skipped onto the Vikings and only a while after did we get to the British. We were well versed in all the treachery and chicanery of the local chieftains pulling fast ones on one another and enlisting the help of the sasanaigh in their internecine squabbles.

Elmo

pickarooney wrote: »

We started with the stone age, then it skipped onto the Vikings and only a while after did we get to the British. We were well versed in all the treachery and chicanery of the local chieftains pulling fast ones on one another and enlisting the help of the sasanaigh in their internecine squabbles.

We did the Bronze Age. It wasn't a dull :rolleyes:

Zebra3

stovelid wrote: »

My first historical memory was seeing a picture of Kitty O Shea and wondering why Parnell went to all that bother?

You obviously didn't see the one when her ankles were showing.

Yowzer!!! :pac:

The Brigadier

Elmo wrote: »

Junior Cert history covers a huge amount including the Renaissance, archeology, primary & secondary sources, European history, Modern Irish History, The Famine and the Act of Union, flight of the earls etc. It maybe a little to broad.

When I did leaving cert History it began in 1870 and covered both Irish and European History. There was also a second history course before 1870 going back to the Flight of the Earls etc, up to the school which course they taught.

Sorry I mean Irish history pre-1850ish.

It is a long time ago for me but my recollection is of very little Irish history pre the independence movement.

The Brigadier

pickarooney wrote: »

We started with the stone age, then it skipped onto the Vikings and only a while after did we get to the British. We were well versed in all the treachery and chicanery of the local chieftains pulling fast ones on one another and enlisting the help of the sasanaigh in their internecine squabbles.

That is pretty much my recollection of things. Vikings to "Brits Out!" in a single page turn.

ImpossibleDuck

The Brigadier wrote: »

Bit of a side topic on this but looking back is anyone surprised at the lack of depth in the secondary school history curriculum?

I remember Inter Cert history seemed to start about 1850. It was as if nothing in Ireland happened before then.

Jaysus, the JC History course these days is massive. It's a great course, taught me a lot. Very very long and broad.

The Brigadier

I just found the curriculum

http://www.curriculumonline.ie/en/Post-Primary_Curriculum/Junior_Cycle_Curriculum/Junior_Certificate_Subjects/History/History_Syllabus/History_Syllabus.pdf

It seems to be very short on Irish history other than concerning the struggle for independence.

Niles

Elmo wrote: »

Junior Cert history covers a huge amount including the Renaissance, archeology, primary & secondary sources, European history, Modern Irish History, The Famine and the Act of Union, flight of the earls etc. It maybe a little to broad.

When I did leaving cert History it began in 1870 and covered both Irish and European History. There was also a second history course before 1870 going back to the Flight of the Earls etc, up to the school which course they taught.

The new (2006) course is similar, either Early Modern History (up to 1815) or Later Modern History (1815-1993). From what I gather very few schools do the earlier course, don't know if that's down to teacher preference or something else. I did it the year it came out and I think there were less than 40 in the whole country that did the earlier course. Suited me as I preferred later modern history anyway, though I did miss the 1798 rebellion!

K-9

The Brigadier wrote: »

I just found the curriculum

http://www.curriculumonline.ie/en/Post-Primary_Curriculum/Junior_Cycle_Curriculum/Junior_Certificate_Subjects/History/History_Syllabus/History_Syllabus.pdf

It seems to be very short on Irish history other than concerning the struggle for independence.

My recollection was pre 1847/48 tended to be covered more in national school.

NIMAN

I love the way you hear the phrase "and the British suppressed the Irish language being spoken.." as if Irish people really love to speak Irish.

From what I have seen over my lifetime, 99.9% of Irish people can hardly string an Irish sentence together, hated it at school and have zero interest in ever speaking another word of it.:D

Instead, we are now a nation of English speakers, the most accepted 'world' language, which has no doubt brought great benefits to the country. If we all spoke Irish, do you think eBay, Intel, Google, plus the tourists would be rushing to come here?

charlemont

My mother would fob me off with useless answers to questions such as.. how did Ireland start speaking Irish ? Dáithí o Donnal came here and spoke it
Who invented the gun ? Colonel Gadaffi

Our first paragraph in a History book in primary school was about the Celts and our first paragraph in secondary was about the 1066 Norman invasion of Britain.

Elmo

NIMAN wrote: »

I love the way you hear the phrase "and the British suppressed the Irish language being spoken.." as if Irish people really love to speak Irish.

From what I have seen over my lifetime, 99.9% of Irish people can hardly string an Irish sentence together, hated it at school and have zero interest in ever speaking another word of it.:D

Instead, we are now a nation of English speakers, the most accepted 'world' language, which has no doubt brought great benefits to the country. If we all spoke Irish, do you think eBay, Intel, Google, plus the tourists would be rushing to come here?

Most colonizing countries suppressed the native language. Notice how uncolonized countries speak their own language aka most other European countries, notice how most of the main languages spoken around the world are European.

Do you think that other European countries don't have such companies running to them? or that tourist only visit countries where English is spoken?

IMO one of the main problems we have as an English speaking country is our lack of interest in learning other languages after all everyone speaks English. Many non-English speaking countries seem to be doing allot better than Ireland at the moment.

Irish was oppressed as all government business was dealt with through English and school was not taught through the native language. As time went on the language died out in many areas. If Ireland had not been invaded by the English we would have colonized other countries and they would now speak Irish just as many French colonies speak French. Irish was widely spoken in Newfoundland until the 1960s.

The history of the death of a language has nothing to do with the 99.9% of non-speakers.