Salary ranges in IT

Tim Robbins

OK just throwing this one out there. What do you think the salary ranges in I.T. are? It is a big area so let's just say stick to .net and Java development.

Here's what I'd say (roughly)

Grad = 30K
Under 5 years experience = < 45K
Between 5 and 10 years experience = 45K <--> 65K
Over ten years experience = 60 <--> 80K
Project Manager = 60 <--> 85K
Team Lead = 40 <--> 70K

If you're a CTO, or a Chief Architect = 75K --> 125K.

Obviously it depends on how good you are and how good your experience is but they would be my guestimates.

How about yours?

what do you think?

GrumPy

Grad is way off anyway. Final year student atm and salaries in the range of 24-27ish.

Signpost

U hiring by any chance? I'll drop over a CV if they are the wages!!

fred252

looks pretty accurate.

i'm in the sap consulting world which is a bit in demand at the moment so you could probably push those ranges out a few grand. although i agree with the previous poster regarding the grad figure, ~ 25 K as far as i'm aware. also the bands change a lot depending on whether you're in support, development or consulting.

seamus

I'd say you're probably off by around 10-15%. I would have said you were on the ball 4 years ago.

Though apparently devs are in short supply at the moment, so you could well be right for that.

D'Agger

30k for grad :eek:

If you had a masters then maybe but I'm just out of college and I'm earning 23k

Happy to have a job doing what I like and studying to move up the ladder so can't complain

jon1981

project manager would be more like 45k to 70k from my experience. obviously there are exceptions where it can be higher.

anyone else want to shed some light on other positions

business analyst
systems analyst
Product manager
Software Tester
Solutions Architect
Enterprise Architect

frezzabelle

For the grad position some I would say 26, mybe with a 1st and good final year project 28. That's my experience.

Tim Robbins

jon1981 wrote: »

Solutions Architect
Enterprise Architect

It really depends on your experience. Solutions Architect can mean you are just team leading doing some B spoke work or it could mean some crazy technical problems that require a lot of technical skills.

Most products put an architecture in at the beginning and then basically stick to it for the next 5 - 10 years only making minor architectural changes. But if you have SA or EA in your title, I'd say range would 50 <--> 100K. It depends on experience, company, ability.

Sparks

I don't think you can put together a reliable mapping from titles to wages to be honest. Different companies use different buzzwords for different roles. You can be a programmer in one, a software engineer in another, a senior developer in a third, and a technical lead in a fourth, all doing the same job with the same experience. And even where there's some standard terminology, pay rates fluctuate a lot even within the same company, depending on your negotiation skills when being hired.

stevenmu

Sparks wrote: »

I don't think you can put together a reliable mapping from titles to wages to be honest. Different companies use different buzzwords for different roles.

Hell, I've got 4 or 5 different ones depending on who I'm talking to. Unfortunately I get paid the same for all of them.

Sparks

Four or five different bosses and to-do lists and priorities as well?
I feel that pain...

Trojan

Sparks wrote: »

Four or five different bosses and to-do lists and priorities as well?
I feel that pain...

Yah. See, we've got these new cover sheets...

Smoggy

im a plus 10 years guy and im below the boundry specified above, so that's either out or im under paid (which is more than likely)

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'd love if this discussion turns out well, interesting to hear some real figures.

In the interests of coming clean here's me:

Graduated 2005
Working in Limerick.
First 2.5 yrs - C/C++ in embedded systems, VB, PHP
Last 3.5 years - J2EE, Adobe Flex
Salary - 44K with paid overtime on some projects.

jimmycrackcorm

Grads @ 25k.


After that it's up to you and being prepared to work and move.

Don't forget contracting - it's the exception you haven tried and caught!

Seachmall

I know a masters grad who's working ~E26,000 basic wage but up to ~E30,000 if deadlines are reached.

I can't really comment on my own as I'm currently working for a start-up and don't have a degree, but it's obviously less than I'd like

COYW

seamus wrote: »

Though apparently devs are in short supply at the moment, so you could well be right for that.

Devs in C# 3.0 & 4.0 are definitely in short supply.

I have 6 years experience in .Net dev, mainly C#. Went for an interview for a senior role the other week and was offered what I asked for. Turned down the job as it wasn't what I was looking for when I interviewed and got another increased offer.

My requested salary fell into the OP's brackets. I think he is spot on with the exception of the graduate salary.

frezzabelle

I think the grad salary really depends on the role and company. I'm i finished up college in June, the job 3 software engineer positions I got were 28k, the service management position was 26k. My colleague got offered 28k for a development position, and another 31k for a graduate IT consulting position. So I would say 26-28k would be a good estimate for a graduate, but I suppose it depends on the position and abilities.

Scruff

me thinks it also depends where in the country you are working. You get paid way more in Dublin than you do elsewhere.

Webmonkey

Scruff wrote: »

me thinks it also depends where in the country you are working. You get paid way more in Dublin than you do elsewhere.

+1. Though I was expecting more when I came to Dublin.

Jayo_M

As far as graduate pay goes, I'm just finishing up my final year exams and have a job sorted at 30k with a nice few benefits tacked on. The lowest I've been offered is 26k. Going rate seems to be between 26-31k.

OwenM

~30k for graduates would be my experience, with the expectation of a meaty review after 6 months.

Joneser

In response to all the grad estimates, I finished my final year of a computer science degree a week ago and with everyone comparing the salaries of jobs they got, the range within my class is €24k to €32k so it's quite a big range. The upper ranges being populated with big companies such as SAP and Deloitte, with Microsoft and Google being slightly above the range I gave although no one in my class managed to snag a position in either of these companies. Then the lower ranges being primarily occupied by new start ups.

trellheim

Unfortunately you are stuck with recruiting agency language.

"Programmer/Developer", one of the hardest things to do, is normally not paid well.

Unfortunately Programmer/Developer is always thought of as "newbie Programmer/Developer" rather than full craft master.

Tim Robbins

Anyone know the salary range in consultancy (for example the likes of deloitte) for senior consultant is?

Consultants seem to get paid more than developers. This is because they are expected to be more flexible.

Sparks

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Consultants seem to get paid more than developers. This is because they are expected to be more flexible.

And because you don't pay their PRSI, medical insurance, bonuses, or any of the ongoing costs that you have to pay for an employee. You just buy them in to do a job and they take care of all that for themselves so it's not your problem. Hence the higher pay.

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Finishing up a masters myself at the moment. Range seems to be 30-40k. Although I know a guy who got offered 50k in my class with Bloomberg.

Webmonkey

Kylan Great Stimulation wrote: »

Finishing up a masters myself at the moment. Range seems to be 30-40k. Although I know a guy who got offered 50k in my class with Bloomberg.

Even with a masters, are companies really offering 30 - 40k? Seems quite high!

Joneser

Webmonkey wrote: »

Even with a masters, are companies really offering 30 - 40k? Seems quite high!

I would definitely believe that, unlike just about every other job market at the moment, the IT industry is in a boom at the moment, with most companies having great difficulty filling positions. I could easily see the masters bagging you an extra couple of k over what new grads like myself are being offered.

Webmonkey

Yeah it's booming but employers still seem reluctant to offer good salaries. Least in my experience.

c_man

Will be starting a grad job (development) this Summer at 33k. Might be because I have a Masters behind me (well thesis submission is soon!).

Was offered a place with another company as well though. It was for a structured grad program and they were offering 30k. Was told that this was the standard pay for all those they were taking on.

balcony swimmer

c_man wrote: »

Will be starting a grad job (development) this Summer at 33k. Might be because I have a Masters behind me (well thesis submission is soon!).

Was offered a place with another company as well though. It was for a structured grad program and they were offering 30k. Was told that this was the standard pay for all those they were taking on.

c_man where are these positions ? in galway or dublin ?

any one know what the going rate in galway is for someone with 3 years .net dev experience and 4 years .net experience ? my friend and I are thinking of maybe heading that direction in near future

Ludo

Scruff wrote: »

me thinks it also depends where in the country you are working. You get paid way more in Dublin than you do elsewhere.

Not true in my experience. I worked in java development in Dublin for 10 years. Moved back to Cork a few years ago. Applied for and got offered 2 jobs here. One offered me 25% less than I was on in Dublin....the other offered me 10% more than I was on. Guess which one I took :-)

The jobs I had in Dublin varied wildly in their pay also. I feel it is more about individual companies rather than location.

c_man

balcony swimmer wrote: »

c_man where are these positions ? in galway or dublin ?

Galway. As I understand it, both (grad) intakes are full.

There's a list of Galway based IT hiring companies here

Anima

Hmm I just started a grad position in Galway and I'm getting around 28. I'm getting fleeced :pac:

but43r

That list looks about right.
Starting a graduate position at 30k + good few benefits.
It's funny how some employers play the recession card even in the IT sector.
Got offered position at 24k with no benefits but decided not to accept it, and I was right in doing so

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

It seems the grass is greener in Germany.

Interview for a job in Munich today for a job with a starting salary of €42k. It database development. Not bad if I got it considering I am 22 with no experience. Finish up masters at the moment and hopefully I get offered and can emigrate in September Find out thursday!

murphaph

Kylan Great Stimulation wrote: »

It seems the grass is greener in Germany.

Interview for a job in Munich today for a job with a starting salary of €42k. It database development. Not bad if I got it considering I am 22 with no experience. Finish up masters at the moment and hopefully I get offered and can emigrate in September Find out thursday!

Not to discourage you (I think you should take it) but just so you're ready....German income taxes are heavy going. You will also have to find somewhere to live in what is probably Germany's most expensive city. On the flip side...your taxes actually get you sh!t in return....excellent healthcare (ok, this comes from compulsory insurance but it's taken out with your taxes), top class infrastructure (underground, motorways everywhere), clean streets (in Munich anway!), safety-plenty of police and Germany is in general very safe, even late at night in unfamiliar parts.

Oh, make SURE when you first register your abode (you have 3 months to do so when first moving to Germany as an EU citizen) that you tell them you are of NO RELIGION, otherwise when it comes to your first payslip you'll see tax deducted for the church!

Oh, best of luck with it! Munich is a lovely city with great access to the Alps, Austria, Italy....

Edit: A quick check says you'll come out with €25,441 after tax, so a little more than 2k in your pocket each month, which should be fine.

srsly78

fsck working in Germany. I quit my job there in 2009 and returned back here, get so much more take-home pay. Remember there is +5% solidarity tax to rebuild the east as well as mandatory health insurance. Also +1% for religion if you don't declare as atheist (lol).

On the topic of salarys: fsck salaries as well, contracting ftw \o/

ALSO, note if you work internationally you will have a MASSIVE pain in the bollix if you take salaried/perm roles. Took me years to sort out tax after working in belgium+uk+germany, you will massively overpay tax. Being a contractor gives you freedom to work internationally without this grief (subject to 183 day rule naturally).

murphaph

srsly78 wrote: »

fsck working in Germany. I quit my job there in 2009 and returned back here, get so much more take-home pay. Remember there is +5% solidarity tax to rebuild the east as well as mandatory health insurance. Also +1% for religion if you don't declare as atheist (lol).

On the topic of salarys: fsck salaries as well, contracting ftw \o/

ALSO, note if you work internationally you will have a MASSIVE pain in the bollix if you take salaried/perm roles. Took me years to sort out tax after working in belgium+uk+germany, you will massively overpay tax. Being a contractor gives you freedom to work internationally without this grief (subject to 183 day rule naturally).

I suppose it depends on your priorities. I couldn't contract yet even if I wanted to as I don't really have enough expertise IMO. As for Germany leaving you with a lot less take home pay, very true....but if someone has a child here it doesn't cost an average industrial wage for childcare, as it seems to in Ireland. There are state run kindergärten everywhere, which cost next to nothing to use. Need to see the doctor? Will cost a maximum of €40 per annum (€10 per quarter). Prescritions covered by compulsory insurance. It's just a different way of doing things I suppose. Ireland gives you more take home, but takes it off you elsewhere.

Many of the lads in my office are contractors alright and they swear by it (once you have the contacts and skills built up). I'd like to try it someday too.

fasty

How does one get into contracting? I'm a salaried employee atm, secure enough job given the times but I want to do some more freelancing/contracting now.

srsly78

I used to think it was by being technically good, but after seeing many terrible contractors I know that isn't true.

It's more about having a brass neck and ability to sell yourself than anything else. Having lots of experience helps naturally, but I have seen younger guys get into it as well. Being a specialist in whatever niche area also helps.

Poster above was right about Germany, if you have kids then that changes the equation a lot. Also car ownership is very cheap. If you don't drive or have kids tho then forget about it! Also, I remember going to Dentist there... They asked me for a tenner, I responded "oh I thought it was free", they told me "oh that's for registration and covers you for the year"

Also, they have no time for contractors in Germany... very strict tax laws.

fasty

I have experience and know how to get things done without writing horrible code. Do I just phone up some recruiters and go from there?

srsly78

Pretty much yeah. It's all about selling yourself. I hope you are made of tough stuff tho, contractors have no job security and tend to get landed with the nasty stuff

You will have to set yourself up as self-employed too, but don't bother with this until you are sure you got something lined up. Also note that some asshole UK recruiters won't deal with an Irish company. The more experience you have the more you get to dictate your terms however. You can setup with a UK umbrella but they are just parasites in my experience. If you setup an Irish company you can avail of the corp tax exemption for 3 years (note: not if you quit your job, exemption only applies to startups creating NEW jobs, I got away with it because I returned home from abroad).

murphaph

srsly78 wrote: »

Also, they have no time for contractors in Germany... very strict tax laws.

I think it must depend on the company. I'm looking at 4 contractors sitting across my desk right now

seamus

Here's an example of a spam job mail I got in today from an Irish recruiter entitled "Senior IT Roles":

Those are all Senior IT Roles for a giant Technological company.

For your kind consideration, I am enclosing the details below:

Benefits:

· Salary - €26 to €30K per annum

· Relocation assistance of €1000 with 1st salary

· Performance Bonus of up to €300 every month

· Vouchers to do Microsoft Certifications

· Subsidised canteen

· Free shuttle bus service,

· Gym membership,

· Discount on HP products

Requirements:

A minimum of 3-4 years experience in IT, remote support experience is preferable.

Fluent in German and English

A suitable candidate must demonstrate a good working knowledge of one or more current Microsoft Operating systems and Exchange architecture (Windows Server 2003/2008, Exchange 2000/2003/2007)

Good working knowledge of Active Directory architecture with proven background in troubleshooting

At least one or more Microsoft Certifications or be studying towards MCSE and/or MCITP qualification.

Also have expertise in all of the following:

· Windows Server 2003/2008

· Outlook 2003/2007

· Advanced networking knowledge

· Client operating systems (XP/Vista)

· Active Directory

Location: Dublin, Ireland

There are obviously a couple of funny things here. It's blatantly a call centre job in HP. It's not "Senior" by a long shot, as the salary, minimum experience and qualifications show. And the qualifications are all over the shop. Working knowledge of one MS OS plus Exchange & AD, but you must know Windows Server, Exchange, AD, "advanced networking" and Client OSes.

It's stuff like this that makes it hard to gauge salaries in IT. On one hand they're looking for someone with fluent German, strong skills in Exchange, AD & networking and 3/4 years experience, and offering a "Senior Role", but on the other hand the salary they're offering would be considered "entry level" or "junior" by many people.

Maybe a degree really does count for a lot, I notice it's not mentioned in that spec.

srsly78

murphaph wrote: »

I think it must depend on the company. I'm looking at 4 contractors sitting across my desk right now

German ones or Irish? I would take a short contract in Germany but not a long one. Once you become tax resident you are fooked (see earlier post). Germany is not a contractor-friendly country.
Aside: Netherlands has a 25% tax exemption for in-demand skilled workers (that means software developers). Pretty sweet. Boss used to even drive me to coffeeshop!




Seamus: Those are support jobs, it's low skill work. There is massive oversupply of people with those skills so they can offer joke money. Not comparable to development roles.

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Yeah if the gross was €42k and net was €26k would I be better off. I actually speak German fluently and have lived in Munich before. I feel that money goes much further over there!! For example food etc is pretty cheap and I'd probably have a lot spare every month. It's not all about the money actually. I think life would be sweeter in general over there. Loads of mates in the area already. Good transportation. Loads of things to do. Might just take it.

srsly78

Many parts of Germany are cheap, not Munich tho

Just to clarify something else: When I talk about contractors I mean self-employed people.

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

Munich is cheaper than Ireland though. You can certainly live cheaper in Munich than Dublin.