Article: Car seizures soar as drivers fail to pay for tax, insurance or NCT

Seth Brundle

By Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent

Monday May 16 2011

CASH-STRAPPED motorists are having their cars seized in unprecedented numbers because they are refusing to tax or insure them or apply for the NCT.
A total of 26,044 cars were seized by gardai at the roadside last year -- more than twice the amount in previous years.
Increasing numbers of motorists struggling to make ends meet are taking the chance that they will not be caught for tax, insurance or NCT offences.
But an Irish Independent investigation reveals their chances of being caught and having their cars confiscated are greater than ever, mainly due to stronger garda enforcement.
The number of motorists prosecuted for driving a car without a valid NCT has rocketed in just 14 months.
In February 2010, 198 drivers were convicted for using a vehicle without a test certificate. As of April 31, the figure had risen to 2,810. In the first three months of this year, 8,180 vehicles were taken off their owners at roadside checkpoints.
The dramatic increase is mainly due to far greater garda enforcement linked to the expansion of the dedicated Garda Traffic Corps.
And although the recession is now a significant factor in the rising level of confiscations, the current clampdown means offences under the Road Traffic Act will not be tolerated.
Chief Supt Gabriel McIntyre also confirmed the downturn in the economy was now a factor in the number of motorists delaying payment of motor tax or putting their cars through the NCT.
Road Safety Authority chief executive Noel Brett said the disclosure of so many extra cars being seized raised serious road safety issues.
"We are delighted with the high level of garda enforcement but it is very disappointing to see that 26,000 cars were seized last year. These are 26,000 cars that have no tax or no insurance and many of them would be unroadworthy."

Uninsured drivers are costing honest drivers around €40 each every year as insurance companies pass the cost of paying out in crashes to law-abiding motorists.
Seized cars are kept by gardai for six weeks, during which time their owners can reclaim them providing they present evidence of having paid their tax, insurance or passed their NCT.
But owners have to pay a hefty price to get their cars back: €125 for the first 24 hours their car is in the pound, plus €35 a day after that. After six weeks, if the cars are not reclaimed, they are crushed and recycled.
Around a third of all vehicles are returned to their owners.
- Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/car-seizures-soar-as-drivers-fail-to-pay-for-tax-insurance-or-nct-2647947.html

What I'm most surprised at is the number of cars not reclaimed!

-Corkie-

Thats intresting. Its no harm anyway if they cannot afford the Tax/Test leave it behind you.

gurramok

These are 26,000 cars that have no tax or no insurance and many of them would be unroadworthy."

How does he know they were not roadworthy? They were never put through the NCT, it was finance that stopped them being tested and put off the road.

krissovo

gurramok wrote: »

How does he know they were not roadworthy? They were never put through the NCT, it was finance that stopped them being tested and put off the road.

No test = Not Roadworthy....Simples

gurramok

krissovo wrote: »

No test = Not Roadworthy....Simples

How did you draw that conclusion? They were never tested with resulting failures. It was the cost of motoring that put them off the road in the first place.

_Kaiser_

krissovo wrote: »

No test = Not Roadworthy....Simples

The NCT isn't worth much anyway and certainly isn't any value as to how "roadworthy" the car even as soon as the next day (never mind up to 2 years later!)

Only reason for the increased Garda enforcement I'm sure is they've been told to go out and raise revenue to pay off the gambling debts we all got landed with by the previous administration. Same reason for the increased focus on "speeding" on open motorways and former N-routes that were downgraded to 80 km/h roads to "encourage" people to use tolled motorways instead.

Nothing to do with safety (or in this case "roadworthiness") - it's about money!

Seth Brundle

krissovo wrote: »

No test = Not Roadworthy legal....Simples

FYP :rolleyes:

Max Power1

krissovo wrote: »

No test = Not Roadworthy....Simples

So all cars are not roadworthy by default?

What about a car that has no nct, (deeming it unroadworthy by your reasoning) that subsequently passes the nct without any work done in the interim, does that magical little greenish disc somehow make the car more roadworthy?

facepalm.

cickybab

Why is it lawfull for these PERSONS cars to be seized, taken away from them or crushed in some cases ?
Because YOU dont actually own your car.
Think about it, how lawfull would it be if you actually, owned that car for them to do this to your car? It would not be, it would be illegal in that case and you could sue the department for damages etc.

I'd like everyone to take a look at your cars "REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE" and to note under (C.4.C) you are in fact the "HOLDER" of that car. (The REGISTERED OWNER) above your name and address is just a delusion! Note beside that it even tells you to look at C.4.C to see what it really means....

Anyways, A PERSON does not own there car, the dep of transport do.

There are a small number of folk within Ireland who own there car (ie, it is not registered, not taxed, not nct'd etc etc).

Under Common Law, every human being has the free right to travel by what ever means.

Under Civil Acts, every PERSON may travel if you have paid us all your money

Crushed and recycled :eek:

Why the hell arent they auctioned. State would get more cash for selling than for recycling in most cases?

Max Power1

cickybab wrote: »

Why is it lawfull for these PERSONS cars to be seized, taken away from them or crushed in some cases ?
Because YOU dont actually own your car.
Think about it, how lawfull would it be if you actually, owned that car for them to do this to your car? It would not be, it would be illegal in that case and you could sue the department for damages etc.

I'd like everyone to take a look at your cars "REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE" and to note under (C.4.C) you are in fact the "HOLDER" of that car. (The REGISTERED OWNER) above your name and address is just a delusion! Note beside that it even tells you to look at C.4.C to see what it really means....

Anyways, A PERSON does not own there car, the dep of transport do.

There are a small number of folk within Ireland who own there car (ie, it is not registered, not taxed, not nct'd etc etc).

Under Common Law, every human being has the free right to travel by what ever means.

Under Civil Acts, every PERSON may travel if you have paid us all your money

Conspiracy Theories forum is ->

krissovo

Max Power1 wrote: »

So all cars are not roadworthy by default?

What about a car that has no nct, (deeming it unroadworthy by your reasoning) that subsequently passes the nct without any work done in the interim, does that magical little greenish disc somehow make the car more roadworthy?

facepalm.

Ok I will rephrase....Road legal

Dont bore me with the bullshoite about magic disc's etc, I am an ex vehicle tester (not NCT) I know full well once its left the test site anything can happen but it does more good than bad.

seamus

It doesn't take a genius to conclude that if drivers aren't paying insurance and tax because they can't afford it, then basic maintenance will be on the chopping block too. So it's not unreasonable to say that "many of them will be unroadworthy".

The fact that 66% of the cars aren't reclaimed goes to show that they're effectively worthless ****ebuckets that are being seized.

E39MSport

26k - whats that in percentage terms? A shade over fok all I reckon.

Despite greater 'enforcement' it's probably still worth the risk for the vast majority.

It's years since I've been stopped by a copper.

Scare-mongering to make up for shag all enforcement me thinks.

itarumaa

Last time I was stopped for insurance,tax,nct check was in Sally Gap (Wicklow) in the middle of the day.

Quite clever I must say, the location was a junction where 4 roads connect, in middle of nowhere.

So when you see the guards, it is too late for you to turn back.

langdang

seamus wrote: »

The fact that 66% of the cars aren't reclaimed goes to show that they're effectively worthless ****ebuckets that are being seized.

sounds about right to me.



Also - LOL at the "conspiracy/'free man of Ireland'/brehon laws" angle being brought into things

seamus

itarumaa wrote: »

Last time I was stopped for insurance,tax,nct check was in Sally Gap (Wicklow) in the middle of the day.

Quite clever I must say, the location was a junction where 4 roads connect, in middle of nowhere.

So when you see the guards, it is too late for you to turn back.

They do it on the Wicklow Gap as well. A straight narrow road with a hump at either end. So you come up over the brow of the hill and see the checkpoint. The only way to turn around is to stop and do a 3-point turn in full view of the Gardai.

Voodoomelon

E39MSport wrote: »

26k - whats that in percentage terms? A shade over fok all I reckon.

cickybab

Max Power1 wrote: »

Conspiracy Theories forum is ->

I know where that forum is.

I am just letting people know the truth. As an active freeman on the land, I myself have now owned my car since July 2009 (I have been stopped alot by the garda) and I just tell them I am a freeman on the land and of I go again.

The ONLY thing the law society can do a freeman for, or the only reason a garda could say arrest you is if you harm, cause loss or death to another human.

As I stated before, look up your common law rights folks (Common Law is far more powerfull) then civil law..

For the record, I no longer have a birth cert, PPS number, passport or drivers licence. As a freeman on the land, I legaly do not require any of these nor do I pay any tax Know your rights folks and you will a happier life. Peace

Max Power1

cickybab wrote: »

I know where that forum is.

I am just letting people know the truth. As an active freeman on the land, I myself have now owned my car since July 2009 (I have been stopped alot by the garda) and I just tell them I am a freeman on the land and of I go again.

The ONLY thing the law society can do a freeman for, or the only reason a garda could say arrest you is if you harm, cause loss or death to another human.

As I stated before, look up your common law rights folks (Common Law is far more powerfull) then civil law..

For the record, I no longer have a birth cert, PPS number, passport or drivers licence. As a freeman on the land, I legaly do not require any of these nor do I pay any tax Know your rights folks and you will a happier life. Peace

LMAO

I'd like to see that.

_Kaiser_

cickybab wrote: »

I know where that forum is.

I am just letting people know the truth. As an active freeman on the land, I myself have now owned my car since July 2009 (I have been stopped alot by the garda) and I just tell them I am a freeman on the land and of I go again.

The ONLY thing the law society can do a freeman for, or the only reason a garda could say arrest you is if you harm, cause loss or death to another human.

As I stated before, look up your common law rights folks (Common Law is far more powerfull) then civil law..

For the record, I no longer have a birth cert, PPS number, passport or drivers licence. As a freeman on the land, I legaly do not require any of these nor do I pay any tax Know your rights folks and you will a happier life. Peace

I'm sorry.. but what???

Alanstrainor

cickybab wrote: »

I know where that forum is.

I am just letting people know the truth. As an active freeman on the land, I myself have now owned my car since July 2009 (I have been stopped alot by the garda) and I just tell them I am a freeman on the land and of I go again.

The ONLY thing the law society can do a freeman for, or the only reason a garda could say arrest you is if you harm, cause loss or death to another human.

As I stated before, look up your common law rights folks (Common Law is far more powerfull) then civil law..

For the record, I no longer have a birth cert, PPS number, passport or drivers licence. As a freeman on the land, I legaly do not require any of these nor do I pay any tax Know your rights folks and you will a happier life. Peace

Do not discuss this topic on this forum again.

keithclancy

Wonder how that works if the driver isn't the registered owner, i.e. the Bank.

ottostreet

It even says on the NCT certificate that it is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness. What's the point in that? (Not the NCT itself, but the fact that it isn't proof of roadworthiness)

ottostreet

ottostreet wrote: »

It even says on the NCT certificate that it is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness. What's the point in that? (Not the NCT itself, but the fact that it isn't proof of roadworthiness)

Well obviously a short test like the NCT can't possibly prove roadworthyness. For this you need an engineer to do extensive testing and sign off on it.

Merch

ottostreet wrote: »

It even says on the NCT certificate that it is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness. What's the point in that? (Not the NCT itself, but the fact that it isn't proof of roadworthiness)

I cant see that written anywhere, I just did mine so the cert is handy, I looked at it now, it says its not a warranty

Hooch

ottostreet wrote: »

It even says on the NCT certificate that it is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness. What's the point in that? (Not the NCT itself, but the fact that it isn't proof of roadworthiness)

Thats added in due to the fact you could pass your NCT today....but in two months your car may not be road worthy due to whatever reason. An indate NCT only means the car WAS tested. We come across alot of dangerously defective vehicles that are NCT'd

listermint

seamus wrote: »

They do it on the Wicklow Gap as well. A straight narrow road with a hump at either end. So you come up over the brow of the hill and see the checkpoint. The only way to turn around is to stop and do a 3-point turn in full view of the Gardai.

turn around


Just put the foot down, OJ Simpson style



On a more serious note, my car tax is fully paid.

ottostreet

NGA wrote: »

Thats added in due to the fact you could pass your NCT today....but in two months your car may not be road worthy due to whatever reason. An indate NCT only means the car WAS tested. We come across alot of dangerously defective vehicles that are NCT'd

I have had two cars which had recently passed NCT. One which suffered brake failure not long after, and resulted in me sailing through a red light in Parkwest with my girlfriend. Luckily nothing was coming. Advance Pitstop didn't charge me for aassessing it and told me to 'scrap' it after seeing how bad it was. (Advance was the only nearby place that I could get the car to). All the lads out standing around under it having a laugh at it!

The other was a BMW which I dropped down to my mechanic shortly after it passed the NCT (I bought it the day it passed from a dealer). I wanted to get it serviced. He ended up keeping it for a week, as he refused to give it back to me as it was so dangerous (suspension was pretty much all gone). I've a good relationship built up with this mechanic, and I know he's honest too.

Merch wrote: »

I cant see that written anywhere, I just did mine so the cert is handy, I looked at it now, it says its not a warranty

OK, I can't remember the exact wording of it, but it's something like that. It came up in relation to a court case I was involved in two years ago or so.

Owen

I don't think it's so much the condition of the car that prevents people from wanting to collect the vehicle, but it's more the back tax. If you have a 2 litre car, you could have to spend 600+ for the backtax for a year, and then the storage charges on top of that.

No doubt the vehicle condition is a factor in many cases, but I know 2 families who aren't working now and just can't afford the tax anymore. And changing the vehicle isn't an option either. They know the risks, and if the car gets taken, it gets taken.

Guy:Incognito

ottostreet wrote: »

It even says on the NCT certificate that it is not a Certificate of Roadworthiness. What's the point in that? (Not the NCT itself, but the fact that it isn't proof of roadworthiness)

It's a snapshot of the condition the car was in when brought in to be tested. It cant guarentee your not driving out of the test centre and throwing the set of slicks back on that you've been driving around on for months and giving your mate back his good tyres. I'd imagine it's a legal cover for the NCT/Government or whoever that could be liable should something happen to a car they've deemed roadworthy for 2 years.

Rabidlamb

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I know 2 families who aren't working now and just can't afford the tax anymore. And changing the vehicle isn't an option either. They know the risks, and if the car gets taken, it gets taken.

I know people who have taken to photo-shopping tax discs, NCT Certs & insurance certs cause they need the car for work but can't afford it.
Pure madness, criminal offence if/when they get caught.

Owen

It's worse to have fakes, as it's fraud and a much more serious offense. You might be lucky enough to meet a sympathetic Gard if you're out of tax a month or two, but no one would be sympathetic if you're deliberately faking your documents.

Basil Fawlty

It just furthers the point that the tax system is completely unfair, and costs way to much. Money is very tight for most people so why would they pay for something that you get nothing for. Maybe if they didnt ask for so much money they might get it.

Or just put the tax on petrol so you cant avoid it!

unkel

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I don't think it's so much the condition of the car that prevents people from wanting to collect the vehicle, but it's more the back tax. If you have a 2 litre car, you could have to spend 600+ for the backtax for a year

Makes sense, but I reckon the people that have the brass neck to drive without tax for a long time would just go to another Garda station and declare the car off the road until the current month and then tax it :eek:

unkel

ciarancapri wrote: »

It just furthers the point that the tax system is completely unfair, and costs way to much. Money is very tight for most people so why would they pay for something that you get nothing for. Maybe if they didnt ask for so much money they might get it.

Or just put the tax on petrol so you cant avoid it!

+1

It would solve a lot of problems for a lot of people to just have the tax on fuel. ESB and Bord Gais are installing hundreds of prepaid meters every day for people who can't afford their utility bills. Same thing!!!

Mr. Presentable

ciarancapri wrote: »

It just furthers the point that the tax system is completely unfair, and costs way to much. Money is very tight for most people so why would they pay for something that you get nothing for. Maybe if they didnt ask for so much money they might get it.

Or just put the tax on petrol so you cant avoid it!

Yeah, then the f*ers will be in your driveway at night with a hose and a mint. If you can't afford to run a car, don't run one.

panda100

My car was seized yesterday on the way to work. It was three months out of date,but I have just started a new job, and had planned to pay the tax at the end of the month when I get paid.
My job is visting people in the community with disabilities, and am now carless on my second week of work!It looks so bad. My NCT,Insurance were all in date, and my dad services my car regularly. I was so upset when they took it, and they didn't seem to give a toss.

I am just wondering it says the compound release fee is €125 for first 24 hours and then €35 euro fo each 24 hours after that. Does this mean that for each day kept in there I will be charged an extra €35 on top of the €125??

seamus

panda100 wrote: »

I am just wondering it says the compound release fee is €125 for first 24 hours and then €35 euro fo each 24 hours after that. Does this mean that for each day kept in there I will be charged an extra €35 on top of the €125??

Yes. So beg, borrow & steal to get money to get it out of impound today.

keithclancy

panda100 wrote: »

My car was seized yesterday on the way to work. It was three months out of date,but I have just started a new job, and had planned to pay the tax at the end of the month when I get paid.
My job is visting people in the community with disabilities, and am now carless on my second week of work!It looks so bad. My NCT,Insurance were all in date, and my dad services my car regularly. I was so upset when they took it, and they didn't seem to give a toss.

I am just wondering it says the compound release fee is €125 for first 24 hours and then €35 euro fo each 24 hours after that. Does this mean that for each day kept in there I will be charged an extra €35 on top of the €125??

If thats your Job then its your employers responsbility to ensure you have a road legal vehicle to do it.

panda100

seamus wrote: »

Yes. So beg, borrow & steal to get money to get it out of impound today.

I can't, I have to watit until I get paid next friday. Its going to end up costing me hundreds which I just can't afford! I got a hired car for a few days which was quite cheap.

furtzy

panda100 wrote: »

I am just wondering it says the compound release fee is €125 for first 24 hours and then €35 euro fo each 24 hours after that. Does this mean that for each day kept in there I will be charged an extra €35 on top of the €125??

Plus the back tax and at least 3 months current tax

Wetbench4

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Yeah, then the f*ers will be in your driveway at night with a hose and a mint. If you can't afford to run a car, don't run one.

Whats the alternative, public transport?? Yeah right, what country are you living in?
I was caught driving my old car (96 carina 1.6)last year when it was 3 months out of tax. I know its wrong but i have to support 4 mouths on a single wage.Simply did not have the money. There is no schoolbus for our son and the school is about 5 miles away. Only other option would be taxis. The car was taken on a monday and i didn't have enough money for anything until payday on friday, so because of their daylight robbery, its was up to nearly €300 by friday. Ended up having to get a loan from the credit union to back tax the car and get it out of the pound.
The whole system is just a bit much.To have to pay so much in petrol tax, road tax, tolls etc to be allowed drive your little engined car on the crappest roads in europe is madness.
I would love if everyone got together and didn't pay their tax for a year. They would never take everyones car. But i can only dream

Edit; Thats gas, i didn't even see your post panda til after i wrote mine and its almost the same as what happened to me. Its sickening, i think they should consider peoples ability to pay back what they charge, to recover your own car. Scumbags

seamus

panda100 wrote: »

I can't, I have to watit until I get paid next friday. Its going to end up costing me hundreds which I just can't afford! I got a hired car for a few days which was quite cheap.

I'm having difficulty figuring out how it's cheaper to hire a car for 4 (?) days and pay a €265 impound fee than to stump up €125 today. Not having a go at you, but surely you could have used a credit card or overdraft or even borrowed from someone for the €125? A last-minute hire for 4 days must have cost you the guts of €100.

furtzy

seamus wrote: »

I'm having difficulty figuring out how it's cheaper to hire a car for 4 (?) days and pay a €265 impound fee than to stump up €125 today. Not having a go at you, but surely you could have used a credit card or overdraft or even borrowed from someone for the €125? A last-minute hire for 4 days must have cost you the guts of €100.

.....plus the back tax and at least 3 months current tax

Melion

krissovo wrote: »

No test = Not Roadworthy....Simples

2011 BMW 520d with no test, not roadworthy in your opinion? It has no test afterall

furtzy

Melion wrote: »

2011 BMW 520d with no test, not roadworthy in your opinion? It has no test afterall

A tad facetious there.....

Anan1

Melion wrote: »

2011 BMW 520d with no test, not roadworthy in your opinion? It has no test afterall

See post 12.

seeing_ie

Get used to it folks, or get out on the streets.

The country is anywhere between €200 Billion and €330 Billion in debt thanks to the likes of Quinn's and Fitzpatrick's gambling debts.

The only way to pay this debt, if you accept liability, is new taxes and increased enforcement of existing taxes. Along with a reduction in services.

Matt Simis

furtzy wrote: »

.....plus the back tax and at least 3 months current tax

Not if he wasnt driving it during those months presumably.

furtzy

Matt Simis wrote: »

Not if he wasnt driving it during those months presumably.

Can't see the Gardai stamping the form when the cars in the impound yard