Argument

beefmcguire

1))Is it possible to lose muscle whilst getting stronger assuming a caloric surplus.

Also assume your assistance decreases dramatically.


2) At beginner level ( <4yrs training, is brute force sufficient to stimulate muscle hypertrophy to the same degree as would the more conventional bodybuilding methods?

*Bodybuilders like to go to failure, or even past. I refuse to, and prefer to leave some in the tank for strength purposes.



The argument i had with my mate isnt settled because the examples I used of jacked powerlifters must take into account drug use and superior genetics; with the other example of the greek and bulgarian oly lifters taking into account the 5-6 hour training schedules they follow.

Dave Tate thinks higher volume lower intensity = hypertrophy

Jamie Lewis (Chaos and Pain) thinks higher intensity higher volume =hypertrophy.

I went against Jamies ideas because I just ended up in a hoop and injured after doing it.

Hanley

Can you please repost that so it's actually readable and makes sense?

beefmcguire

I see what you mean Hanley. Lot of unnecessary **** in there.

Most efficient way to gain, basically, is my question.

Hanley

beefmcguire wrote: »

I see what you mean Hanley. Lot of unnecessary **** in there.

Most efficient way to gain, basically, is my question.

Gain what?

Brian?

Hanley wrote: »

Gain what?

Size I assume.

beefmcguire

Hanley wrote: »

Gain what?

We'll start from scratch.

1) Has it ever happened to you where you lose muscle whilst gaining strength?
-I think this is happening to me now.

2) Is strength training + assistance pre failure, as efficient at beginner level as bodybuilding training with respect to muscle growth.

Hanley

beefmcguire wrote: »

We'll start from scratch.

1) Has it ever happened to you where you lose muscle whilst gaining strength?
-I think this is happening to me now.

If it's a new movement where most of the gains will come from neural efficiency, sure, it's possible.

2) Is strength training + assistance pre failure, as efficient at beginner level as bodybuilding training with respect to muscle growth.

Basic bodybuilding training is strength gain+assistance work. I don't know anyone training under an experienced bodybuilder who isn't trying to get stronger.

The sh!te you see in Flex is just that - sh!te. No one follows it. Poorly applied strength training is just as bad as poorly applied BB training. You just see more of the latter.

Brian?

beefmcguire wrote: »

We'll start from scratch.

1) Has it ever happened to you where you lose muscle whilst gaining strength?
-I think this is happening to me now.

You shouldn't lose muscle, unless you're eating a caloric deficit. But it is possible to lose weight and get stronger especially for a beginner.

beefmcguire wrote: »

2) Is strength training + assistance pre failure, as efficient at beginner level as bodybuilding training with respect to muscle growth.

For me, more efficent. But then it depends on the person, level of intensity, food intake and a million other little things.

There are no black and white answers to your questions IMO.

beefmcguire

briankeating wrote: »

You shouldn't lose muscle, unless you're eating a caloric deficit. But it is possible to lose weight and get stronger especially for a beginner.



For me, more efficent. But then it depends on the person, level of intensity, food intake and a million other little things.

There are no black and white answers to your questions IMO.

Brian. I think thats why my first post was such an illegible mess. I didnt really know how to ask the question, taking the black and white thing, into account.

Its infuriating when someone asks me, Ryan, what's the best way to gain. I dont ****ing know. I was trying to ask the same question, but a little more specifically.

Ive hit 3 p.r's the last week of exams and have a lot of mcdonalds :-) Ive gone flat, even though assistance has been moderate.

Not going to worry as im sure ill be back to normal after the sedentary lifestyle of studying finishes...

I came to the realization just there that:

Dave Tate > Jamie Lewis.

Dave Tates trilogy programme might be taken into consideration. I may just stick to westside and decrease my rest periods, on the other hand...


Thanks for the replies. Ill sort something out.

Brian?

beefmcguire wrote: »

Brian. I think thats why my first post was such an illegible mess. I didnt really know how to ask the question, taking the black and white thing, into account.

Its infuriating when someone asks me, Ryan, what's the best way to gain. I dont ****ing know. I was trying to ask the same question, but a little more specifically.

Ive hit 3 p.r's the last week of exams and have a lot of mcdonalds :-) Ive gone flat, even though assistance has been moderate.

Not going to worry as im sure ill be back to normal after the sedentary lifestyle of studying finishes...

I came to the realization just there that:

Dave Tate > Jamie Lewis.

Dave Tates trilogy programme might be taken into consideration. I may just stick to westside and decrease my rest periods, on the other hand...


Thanks for the replies. Ill sort something out.

That's all over the place, it really is. But sure you know that.

Best way to gain size: Eat more and lift heavy.

beefmcguire

briankeating wrote: »

That's all over the place, it really is. But sure you know that.

Best way to gain size: Eat more and lift heavy.

Just delete this thread. Im always having dilemmas regards training. I thought high volume singles were the answer till i stagnated strength wise on most lifts after 3 months. Then i stopped gaining size, so maybe I needed to move to a higher volume lower intensity routine with much more exercise variety each day.

Been doing westside for a while...got much more explosive and then started to lose size, at least it seems that way in the mirror. Im going up in scale weight.