Support Complete Libertarianism in Ireland?

Fukuyama

Would you support a new constitution and laws that ensure you can do whatever the fcuk you want so long as it doesn't interfere with others?

Take drugs. Use prostitutes. Gay marraige. Sleep in a hammock on top of a mountain etc... etc...

I'm not saying I support the guy 100% on his policies - but he has the right idea when it comes to libertarianism in my opinion....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6a9549ZeqQ

Do you think we should adopt libertarianism here in Ireland??

Captain_Generic

Dean0088 wrote: »

Would you support a new constitution and laws that ensure you can do whatever the fcuk you want so long as it doesn't interfere with others?

Use prostitutes.

You'd be interfering with her vagina

Iwasfrozen

Dean0088 wrote: »

Would you support a new constitution and laws that ensure you can do whatever the fcuk you want so long as it doesn't interfere with others?

Take drugs. Use prostitutes. Gay marraige. Sleep in a hammock on top of a mountain etc... etc...

I'm not saying I support the guy 100% on his policies - but he has the right idea when it comes to libertarianism in my opinion....

Do you think we should adopt libertarianism here in Ireland??

No because some things such as taking drugs or abortion are up for debate on whether or not they harm anyone else. Besides the liberalist economic policies are my idea of hell, there's more to life then making money.

orourkeda

Alex Jones is that you?

Fukuyama

Captain_Generic wrote: »

You'd be interfering with her vagina

And she'd be letting you. Prostitution =/= rape...

Fukuyama

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No because some things such as taking drugs or abortion are up for debate on whether or not they harm anyone else. Besides the liberalist economic policies are my idea of hell, there's more to life then making money.

I can see your point with abortion. Although I'm pro-choice.

But how can taking drugs interfere with anyone else more so than it already does?

El Weirdo

Dean0088 wrote: »

Sleep in a hammock on top of a mountain...

This is illegal?

Saila

Dean0088 wrote: »

And she'd be letting you. Prostitution =/= rape...

it is if you dont pay

Fukuyama

El Weirdo wrote: »

This is illegal?

I'd imagine some prick garda would come along and ask that you piss off...

Fukuyama

Saila wrote: »

it is if you dont pay

...In itself that'd be debatable.

Nevertheless, you'd pay. Hence why its called prostitution and not rape.

RockinRolla

Dean0088 wrote: »

Would you support a new constitution and laws that ensure you can do whatever the fcuk you want so long as it doesn't interfere with others?

Take drugs. Use prostitutes. Gay marraige. Sleep in a hammock on top of a mountain etc... etc...

I'm not saying I support the guy 100% on his policies - but he has the right idea when it comes to libertarianism in my opinion....

Do you think we should adopt libertarianism here in Ireland??

Libertarianism is not about making new laws - the ideology supports repealing them. Libertarians don't support making new laws, for example, to make sure gay marriage can occur, instead, it's about removing government from marriage altogether. The same with drugs - no new laws saying we can use them, just get rid of the laws saying we can't. That's the difference and yes, I would support it - indeed, ancient Ireland was libertarian, everything you see today stems from the British .

Saila

moar!

Captain_Generic

Dean0088 wrote: »

And she'd be letting you. Prostitution =/= rape...

Well technically interfering with another person could be anything from them having to change direction on a path to walk around you, to shaking someones hand. Its all interference. So "as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone" is way too general

Nodin

Dean0088 wrote: »

Would you support a new constitution and laws that ensure you can do whatever the fcuk you want so long as it doesn't interfere with others?

Take drugs. Use prostitutes. Gay marraige. Sleep in a hammock on top of a mountain etc... etc...

I'm not saying I support the guy 100% on his policies - but he has the right idea when it comes to libertarianism in my opinion....

Do you think we should adopt libertarianism here in Ireland??

We should be socially liberal no matter what economic model we have.

Wolfe Tone

No I wouldnt.


The state needs to protect the vulnerable in society.

Fukuyama

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No I wouldnt.


The state needs to protect the vulnerable in society.

And how would libertarianism prevent that?

The core message is that you could do whatever you want so long as it's victimless.

Obviously, if it effected another it wouldn't be victimless and as such wouldn't be tolerated. To be honest, nothing sickens me more than new laws being passed that tell people what to do, how to act etc...

Take for example measures to tell people when and where they can drink. Or laws against loitering. Small little issues that have become big ones because pointless laws have intensified the problem.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Dean0088 wrote: »

And how would libertarianism prevent that?

The core message is that you could do whatever you want so long as it's victimless.

Libertarians are opposed to the government helping the vulnerable in society. I'd agree with people being able to do whatever they want if its victim-less but thats not all there is to libertarianism. If Ireland were to become libertarian there would be no dole, no public health service, and no public schooling. We'd be setting foot back into the 19th century in economic terms no matter how progressive we became socially.

Fukuyama

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

Libertarians are opposed to the government helping the vulnerable in society. I'd agree with people being able to do whatever they want if its victim-less but thats not all there is to libertarianism. If Ireland were to become libertarian there would be no dole, no public health service, and no public schooling. We'd be setting foot back into the 19th century in economic terms no matter how progressive we became socially.

And I agree with that. GOVERNMENTS shouldn't help the weak in society. It's up to society to do that. I completely agree with privatised healthcare, education etc... so long as it's on a libertarian basis - NOT a capitalist one like in the US.

Saila

in theory marge communism works

Fukuyama

Saila wrote: »

in theory marge communism works

On a practical level yeah but people wouldn't accept it.

I think libertarianism has more 'acceptability' to it.

hatrickpatrick

100% yes. No victim = no crime.

RMD

Dean0088 wrote: »

Take drugs.

Depends on the drugs, hard drugs such as Heroin and Crack Cocaine are notorious for forming habits which will eventually impact on others. Whether it's the users family having to watch them become a shadow of their formerselves or the person at the end of a needle being told to hand over their phone and wallet.

Marijuana and MDMA on the other hand, definite yes. Both are less damaging than alcohol and tobacco, if properly controlled by the government it would help ensure safe and pure drugs while raising huge amounts in tax.

My name is URL

Modern libertarianism has very little to do with simple personal liberty. It's usually supported by right-wingers rather than those on the left. They don't want any state intervention unless it's to protect their own interests.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Dean0088 wrote: »

And I agree with that. GOVERNMENTS shouldn't help the weak in society. It's up to society to do that. I completely agree with privatised healthcare, education etc... so long as it's on a libertarian basis - NOT a capitalist one like in the US.

And what do you think Libertarianism is? Its capitalism brought to its most extreme form.

Fallschirmjager

yes i would ...and i would sort out our financial issues almost overnight.

and to those about protecting the vulnerable...how that working out for you now...poverty is a weapon used for votes, nothing more or less. it allows people of one belief to target another and pitches one group against another.

if we had no government involved in marriage, we would not have the issues related to it, pick a church or organisation you agree with and leave those who choose differently alone. by the way are you happy paying for all those high court 100K a day deals to sort it out? they dont care, you are paying.

healthcare, you would pay for BUT...now you are paying for it you just dont realise it, except we would have competing forces for your money. currently you are paying 4 grand per person per year for a health system that is a joke, and that excludes your private plan so you can see a feaking doctor. healthcare is about jobs and votes...you are the blood necessary to oil the machine.

and to those thinking this is a freedom to use drugs...yes it is...except when you collapse, I aint paying for you to get better, you are on your own. at least i would not, other may..its called charity

we also get away finally from ridiculous tax...tax would be between a flat rate of 6 to 10%. that pays for police, maybe roads and sundries and a limited govt. the govt is normally restricted on the number of times it can even meet to avoid them fracking it up.

we also stop calling the appropriation of your money a tax, its nothing more than theft. tax allows for the creation of an elite class that know better then you and they deploy your money to suit their preferences, so you bounce from left to right each taking more and more and also screwing it up. it also puts an end to the relationship between government and business as there is no benefit for business to get involved and nothing that allows a govt to benefit. so you would have no builders and bankers creating a bubble with government in a circle jerk you pay for.

also we finally get to call social engineering what it is...charity. dont like that name? tough. well that what it is except currently i dont have any say in where the govt decide to spend my money and they call it cool names to hide it so the recipient feels better. with charity i choose.

the fear of liberty is that you do have to get off your ass for yourself and stop waiting for a hand out. what you swap for now is security but you give up all of your liberty to a govt interested in itself. thats the fear government wants you to feel that only they can help you...but look at the results of 60 years of their efforts? more division, more laws on laws that dont work, more poverty and more intrusion from the moral minority. the sole goal of government is more government, thats why you wind up with 1 in 40 people you see walking in the street today working in a healthcare system that doesnt work...dont believe me...4 million divided by 100,000, what do you get? thats why the govt do deals with unions with the suppliers because they dont care...you pay. its why they can put a tax on pensions without caring...you pay. you will always pay, until you take the one thing they need...and that the power over you.

so as you can see...yes i support it. and also to those who think about the poor and care more than i do because you shout and scream that you care...no you dont (and quite frankly you have done a piss poor job so far as we can see) but your elitism leads you to believe you have the answers...you dont, but your bullhorn of abuse is nothing more than a cloak to steal someone elses money to suit your personal agenda and boost your ego.

rubensni

Libertarianism, to me, equates with the complete collapse of society. Imagine this, for example, happening here: No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

Computer Sci

RockinRolla wrote: »

indeed, ancient Ireland was libertarian,

No it most certainly was not, it was quiet hierarchical and due deference was paid to higher ranking clan chieftains and nobles. Druids in particular were highly esteemed and respected members of Ancient Ireland - particularly regarding social, moral and diplomatic issues.

Could you (I'm thinking that maybe you are American) stick to your Montana Militia, Ayn Rand and Chicago School of Economics ideologies, agenda and outlook, and stop trying to rewrite, or retell the history of other countries to suit your own agenda.

Capt'n Midnight

Somalia is a Libertarian's wet dream.

TPD

rubensni wrote: »

Libertarianism, to me, equates with the complete collapse of society. Imagine this, for example, happening here: No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

That's like that time I wouldn't pay for a plane ticket and wasn't allowed on the plane. Outraged, so I was!

MagicMarker

Saila wrote: »

it is if you dont pay

Sleeping with a prostitute is rape if you don't pay?

What. the. fúck?

Zebra3

Captain_Generic wrote: »

You'd be interfering with her vagina

Maybe he doesn't have one.