Wife wants abortion

LegacyUser

Hi
Looking for advice. Married almost 6 years- 3 children ages 1,3 and almost 5. Despite using condom (and limited sex life with three young kids) wife has found out she is 6 weeks pregnant. She says she is going to have an abortion as can't cope with thought of a 4th child.

I have told her I won't go to UK with her for the abortion and want her to have the child. Finances are tight but we will manage. Don't think I can change her mind and don't think I can stay with her knowing she killed our child.

Any advice?

I am a friend

How is she going to cope on her own with 3 if you leave her? She needs to think about that long and hard.

I would stand my ground if I were you and make it 150% clear that you will leave if she does this. Can't imagine what you are going through

steddyeddy

Well if you cant stay with her you cant stay with her but I would think of your children as a prioity in this case. Abortion is such a polarising issue as it is the fact that the baby is yours makes it worse. I would say you certainly dont have to offer emotional support in situation that is causing you such hurt.

_ariadne

Have you talked in the past about your differing views on abortion? surely it came up at some point, did you tell her you would leave her if she ever got an abortion? did she indicate to you that an abortion would be on the cards if for whatever reason she did not want a/another child at that particular point?
Its such a pity you are on opposite sides of the table in this and unable to support each other during this difficult time

for my 2cents, I think you should look at the bigger picture and think is it really worth destroying your family just because you are on principal, against abortion. Sometimes things aren't meant to be, focus on your family and you can get through this.

LegacyUser

Sorry you are going through this as a couple.
To be honest I have reared children and I don't think I envy your wife facing a fourth pregnancy so soon.
I know you are hurting too , but she is the one who seems to be a the end of her tether.
I am firmly pro-choice (I was once in pregnant and literally starving as my ex-husband refused to allow me money for food), but I respect that everyone has to follow their own conscience.
I continued with my pregnancy, reared the baby and dumped the man. I was lucky to inherit a house after baby was born. I have met enough abused women to realise that women can be trapped by pregnancy in abusive situations.
Money and stress are probably weighing down on her. Is she afraid that you won't be able to pay the bills? Is she making choices about work outside the home or going back to work?
She has shown she trusts you by telling you, a lot of women just go ahead without ever telling the man. Saying that you will leave her will probably make her more distressed and unable to cope.
This must be very hard for you, but love and support is what she needs right now. She is obviously scared to go ahead.

tinkerbell

You and your wife need to talk about this. Look at it from her point of view - she's already put her body through three pregnancies. Now you want her to go through another when she doesn't want to? Do you help at home and with the kids? Presumably she hasn't taken this decision lightly - it would be really hard for her to go through the abortion alone. I get the impression from your post that you think ye should just suck it up whereas she's thought about it from a practical point of view.

cafecolour

Hmm. Have you talked to her about why she doesn't think she can cope with having another child, besides just monetarily? With three children that young, is she doing all the minding herself, or do you help at all? Does she get help from parents or anyone so she gets a break?

steddyeddy

tinkerbell wrote: »

You and your wife need to talk about this. Look at it from her point of view - she's already put her body through three pregnancies. Now you want her to go through another when she doesn't want to? Do you help at home and with the kids? Presumably she hasn't taken this decision lightly - it would be really hard for her to go through the abortion alone. I get the impression from your post that you think ye should just suck it up whereas she's thought about it from a practical point of view.

Thats not fair practicalities and morals are both valid issues. Pro choice and anti abortion views are both in essence opinions. The decision to terminate your and a partners child cannot have been taken easy but it was taken. The op didnt take or agree with it and he has the right to have his views respected.

It's a no-win situation really. I'm pro-choice myself, but it's always hard to know whose choice it should be. Obviously the mother has a say, but in my opinion the father's opinion is also a priority. It's just that ultimately, since you disagree with each other, only one of you is going to get your way.

If you threaten your wife with leaving her, and she agrees, she is going to have to carry this child, she is going to raise this child, and she will be doing this under duress. Your marriage will be broken, your children will be put under considerable emotional stress, and I wouldn't be surprised if your wife ended up with post-natal depression, or a resentment for the child. There's a good chance that not only will the child be brought up in a tense, emotionally fraught situation, and most likely a bad relationship with it's mother, but it will have to deal with the fact that it's the reason it's parents are angry at each other all the time. Finances and relationships will strain, and your wife would probably never forgive you.

If you allow your wife to choose to get an abortion, you don't have to be ok with it, you just have to accept that it's not something you can or should try to force her to do. You can grieve, you can talk to her about it, you can take comfort in your children and wife, who will still be there. The family you already have should take priority over an unborn child.

I understand the pro-life view. I get that when you have that view, being in a situation like yours must be horrific. I get that for you, this is the equvalent of murder. But at the end of the day it's your wife's body, and you just can't force/coerce her into doing this. Not only is it unfair, but it will have extremely negative consequences on the family you already have.

Neyite

Its a terrible situation to be in. Particularily for your wife. Either she goes through with a crisis pregnancy that she is neither emotionally nor financially ready for, or her marriage ends, she loses her husband and it results in 3 children under the age of 5 in a broken home.

I think this is bigger than both of you right now, and you should seriously consider contacting the crisis pregnancy organisations to see if you can get some counselling on the issue - in a calmer environment you both may be able to discuss how you both feel and work out something. You need to find out why she is panicking over a fourth and what her fears are, and she needs to hear exactly how you see things changing so that you can manage with a fourth child.

tenchi-fan

It's unfortunate you didn't discuss this issue before, although I would have thought it's a given in a relationship that a wife will not abort her husband's babies. Your wife is probably now hormonal and there's a possibility she isn't thinking straight.

My grandparents raised 7 kids in a 3 bedroom house so even if times are tough now imagine what it was like 50-60 years ago.

You should look into both getting financial advice from MABS, and also marriage guidance.

If you are practising Catholics and raising your kids as Catholic you might remind your wife that abortion is one of the few sins that carries the penalty of automatic ex-communication.

Also: any Catholic who deliberately and knowingly provides essential or substantial means for any woman to procure an abortion also commits a mortal sin and also incurs the same sentence of excommunication.

Firetrap

I don't think it would do you any harm to contact these people
http://www.positiveoptions.ie. It's a horrible situation both of you find yourselves in and getting some impartial advice might help

I am a friend

"I understand the pro-life view. I get that when you have that view, being in a situation like yours must be horrific. I get that for you, this is the equvalent of murder. But at the end of the day it's your wife's body, and you just can't force/coerce her into doing this. Not only is it unfair, but it will have extremely negative consequences on the family you already have."

And it's his Childs body she is talking about aborting. What gives her the right, within a loving relationship to choose to abort a baby conceived of love making. I am not religious but I don't think, just because women can have kids that they (as part of a couple) have the right to play 'God' and abort their partners child without his agreement. If that was the case she should have made sure she didn't get pregnant.

I can't get my head around why she would abort her childrens sibling

Deediddums

I don't think second guessing the OP's wife's state of mind or her concerns is going to help anyone. The OP is looking for advice on how to approach and deal with the problem at hand and we don't know his wife's motivation or feelings on the issue.

If as suggested by one poster the wife is a practising Catholic, I'm sure she is more than aware of what the consequences are in relation to this. If she is not (and let's face it in this day and age that is a big "if") well then that is entirely and utterly irrelevant.

Suggestions regarding attending counselling or speaking to a group tailored to dealing with crisis pregnancies have been the most useful I would think. If both the OP and his wife can see their way to attending such a session with an open mind then there is a lot that could be salvaged here.

LegacyUser

please consider how much of the past five years this poor woman has spent pregnant. and i will also echo those who have asked how much help she gets with the housework not to mention the brood she already has underfoot.

tragic situation. just tragic.

tyview

I think you need to talk to your wife more and find out the exact reasons for this and see if there is a way around it. Look at positiveoptions.ie too and maybe do this with your wife. If its money or a coping issue then come up with some sort of plan. You both need to approach this together or you wont be together much longer whether she keeps the baby or not.

Miss Fluff

You poor things, I feel for both of you. I think you need to involve a 3rd party and have them help/mediate as you both seem pretty adamant about what you want. Look into contacting www.positiveoptions.ie as a matter of priority and go and see someone. I hope you make the right decision.

mpdg

tenchi-fan wrote: »

I would have thought it's a given in a relationship that a wife will not abort her husband's babies. Your wife is probably now hormonal and there's a possibility she isn't thinking straight.

In the US, 60% of the women who get abortions already have children. The common stereotype of a person seeking an abortion is a frightened teenager, but that isn't the case in a great deal of cases. My point is, married or unmarried, women need abortions. A ring on her finger does not guarantee that the stress of three young children is not completely over-whelming as it is or that she has fears about yet another pregnancy.

I think that most women who are sexually active do think about their decision if they became pregnant - it may be possible that the OP's wife could have thought that another child would have been an emotional/financial impossibility previous to the pregnancy and had thought abortion was the best option for her. Also, although pregnancy has an effect on hormones, this in no way inhibits an adult's ability to make a decision about her body. I think to say otherwise, that this is a rash decision thought up by a crazy pregnant lady on a whim, is not right.

WhatWillBee

I think the best advice anyone can give either of you OP, is try to see it truly from the other persons point of view. You don't have to agree but you should be able to understand.

I am a friend wrote: »

What gives her the right, within a loving relationship to choose to abort a baby conceived of love making. I am not religious but I don't think, just because women can have kids that they (as part of a couple) have the right to play 'God' and abort their partners child without his agreement. If that was the case she should have made sure she didn't get pregnant.

I take your point, but she does have the right because while it takes both a man and a woman to make life, it is only the woman can sustain that life to birth. At the end of the day ultimately, its the womans decision.

Of course this SUCKS, for the guy. I always feel sorry for guys in this situation, biology has just dictated that they don't have an equal say in such matters that they should. But such it is.

Without this turning into an abortion debate (and no doubt it will), I agree with the other posters in that you have to put the family you have now ahead of an unborn child. I understand that you will find it difficult if she does have an abortion, but you are her husband and she is your wife, one of you is not going to get your way, but I like to think that marriage is about not getting your way but still being able to be there for your other half. Threatening to leave her isnt going to help the situation. You have to find a way to make it through no matter what.

I also agree with the other posters that said you should look further into why she wants the abortion in the first place. Is it really just finances? I would imagine theres more to it than that. Is she finding it difficult to cope with the 3 you have as it is? Is she a stay at home mother? etc etc

I am a friend

"I take your point, but she does have the right because while it takes both a man and a woman to make life, it is only the woman can sustain that life to birth. At the end of the day ultimately, its the womans decision"

I fully understand you point of course but within a loving relationship, unilateral and very final decisions cant be forced upon one Party if that relationship is expected to thrive.

WhatWillBee

I am a friend wrote: »

I fully understand you point of course but within a loving relationship unilateral and very final decisions cant be forced upon one Party if that relationship is expected to thrive.

I totally agree, but I think thats inevitable here. No matter what happens someone isn't going to be happy and its unfortunate that this is time sensitive too.

discus

Limited sex life?
Using condoms when you do have sex?
Wife insistant on an abortion?

...Are you sure it's yours?

WhatWillBee

discus wrote: »

Limited sex life?
Using condoms when you do have sex?
Wife insistant on an abortion?

...Are you sure it's yours?

Not a ridiculous question by any means. Although if there was a possibility it wasn't his wouldn't she just have the abortion and not tell him?

Distorted

Unregistered wrote: »

I have told her I won't go to UK with her for the abortion and want her to have the child.

Well, short of womb and embryo transfer and imprisoning her, you aren't going to be able to make her. Lets say if you persuade her and she is not overly imbued with the domestic joys of a fourth child and is filled with resentment, how would you feel? Because this is undoubtedly going to come back and bite you at some point, maybe even years later.

Do you actually care about your wife at all? Because your post mentions your desire for a fourth child, your resentment for abortion, how upset you would be. No mention of how your wife might feel at all, and little regard for how your other children would be affected by splitting up your family over this issue. Do you even see your wife as a person in her own right, beyond her role of mother and wife? Do you not think that she is entitled to feelings and desires and wants like other human beings?

Sometimes in life, we do not always get what we want and cannot always make other people do what we want.

And without wanting to be too specific, while your wife may well not have any particular medical problems, her body may be suffering from 3 pregnancies in a short time span. She might have suffered painful births, or horrendous tears or wounds that required stitching, and subsequent problems relating to this that she has to confront on a daily basis. As well as raising 3 young children on a limited budget. Perhaps she is just being pragmatic and is looking for support from her husband in this.

omahaid

Distorted wrote: »

Do you actually care about your wife at all? Because your post mentions your desire for a fourth child, your resentment for abortion, how upset you would be. No mention of how your wife might feel at all, and little regard for how your other children would be affected by splitting up your family over this issue. Do you even see your wife as a person in her own right, beyond her role of mother and wife? Do you not think that she is entitled to feelings and desires and wants like other human beings?

Does his wife not care about him? I dislike replies such as this as they demonise one side, and this is very unhelpful I feel especially with such an emotive issue as this.

OP, was adoption or fostering every discussed? There are more options available than just keeping the child or abortion.

Distorted

omahaid wrote: »

Does his wife not care about him? I dislike replies such as this as they demonise one side, and this is very unhelpful I feel especially with such an emotive issue as this.

OP, was adoption or fostering every discussed? There are more options available than just keeping the child or abortion.

Its not "sides" though, is it? Its a relationship, a marriage. Its about mutual respect, trust and understanding and caring about the other party to the relationship, not taking stances against each other in order to gain what you want. And, like it or not, compromise is a big part of relationships. Successful ones anyway.

up for anything

I am a friend wrote: »

I fully understand you point of course but within a loving relationship, unilateral and very final decisions cant be forced upon one Party if that relationship is expected to thrive.

That is the point. It cuts both ways. Whether he manages to stop his wife from going ahead with a termination by threatening her with breaking up the family or she goes ahead without his approval and hence breaks up the family - one of them is making a unilateral and final decision.

discus wrote: »

Limited sex life?
Using condoms when you do have sex?
Wife insistant on an abortion?

...Are you sure it's yours?

Valid question but a little facile.

I was in this position when I fell pregnant with my fourth child. I had three children similar in ages, was using condoms and was thinking abortion. The three I had had worn me out, sex with my husband was the last thing on my mind, let alone a lover! :eek: We could only use condoms for reasons pertaining to my health and cycle. Condoms are not 100% effective even when used properly. I very much doubt that she has been playing away and as the OP hasn't mentioned any such doubts which I'm sure he would have mentioned in his original post.

Chucky the tree

Distorted wrote: »

Its not "sides" though, is it? Its a relationship, a marriage. Its about mutual respect, trust and understanding and caring about the other party to the relationship, not taking stances against each other in order to gain what you want. And, like it or not, compromise is a big part of relationships. Successful ones anyway.

Where is the comprise in an abortion? To me it seems your idea of compromise is to do what his wife wants and just get over it.

Dublinstiofán

Would you prefer if she didin't tell you and went and got it done without you knowing anything about it?

jimmycrackcorm

Unregistered wrote: »

She says she is going to have an abortion as can't cope with thought of a 4th child.

I think you need to to explore the reasons behind this. Financially a fourth kid won't make a huge difference - e.g. handing down clothes and cooing for four vs three kids.

But you really need to find out why the "thought" of a fourth child would be problematic.

Distorted

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Where is the comprise in an abortion? To me it seems your idea of compromise is to do what his wife wants and just get over it.

To be fair, its not an issue you can have a compromise easily over - the child is either carried to full term or is not. There are no half measures. But to anyone reasonable, the compromise is obvious since the OP's wife has already given him 3 healthy children, he accepts her wishes and concentrates on the happiness of the family he already has.

I'm actually shocked that the OP barely seems to know his wife and why she might want an abortion (I'd be concerned for her that its medical issues). I would hope that this is simply due to shock and that he will stop thinking purely in selfish terms about what he wants and consider his family. Otherwise she sounds as though she would be better off without him if he is the sort of man who would leave her on a point of principle or force her to have a child she no longer wants. Its all speculation though - the OP has said next to nothing about his wife or why she might want an abortion, and only mentioned what he wants and how it would affect him.

Its also a cultural issue. To me, now living outside Ireland, and to everyone I know, the views of the OP would be seen as misogynistic and quite unbelievable. To the small population of Ireland, where women go abroad for abortions, and do so in high numbers, it is seen quite differently.

I am not saying that the OP should not be viewed sympathetically and both parties encouraged to undergo relationship counselling. However, the debate here seems to be from a such a blinkered standpoint - that the wife is being totally unreasonable and no other option than having the baby is acceptable. A woman's right to her own body and to independent thought is secondary to its ability to reproduce and to the father's wishes. Therefore any other option is unreasonable.

In answer to the second part of your comment, people in relationships can get over many things if they choose to do so and care enough about their loved ones. People get over infidelity, raise children that are not their own, infertility - all sorts of things. It is how you deal with such issues marks out what kind of person you are.

LegacyUser

Hi there.

As a male who has been through this I can tell you what the after effects are like. Nightmares - really bad. lack of self esteem, drinking too much, eating the wrong foods, scared to open up to anyone again, not able to trust. Three years on since my ex aborted our child without me knowing, the pain is still there and believe me it is pain. Only lately have I gone for counselling for it which has helped. I am not a father & reckon I never will be as the pain is just too much. I could never go through this again.

At least all I can say to you is your wife has discussed this with you - that is a positive. She could have done this without you knowing, so give her some credit for that. All you can do is tell her how you feel, tell her how you could help and that it would not be the end of the world if the child was born. If she chooses to terminate the pregnancy, legally there is nothing you can do, but it can prove the end of a relationship. It did for me. I had no choice in the matter and all this time on I can tell you that for both me & her, the pain is still very real. My ex made a mistake and she knows it. She was devastated after it happened. She took the decision as we got our wires crossed on several issues and she saw it as the only way out. If she had known how I really had felt she woul never have done it.

Don't let the same happen to you. Talk it out and try to arrive at a decision together. At least if you do that, you know you have had an input. Hope this works out for you both, my thoughts are with you. Best of luck.

ztoical

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think you need to to explore the reasons behind this. Financially a fourth kid won't make a huge difference - e.g. handing down clothes and cooing for four vs three kids.

But you really need to find out why the "thought" of a fourth child would be problematic.

+ 1 OP you've had three kids pretty close together and as Jimmy says a 4th when they are that close doesn't make as big a dent in the pocket as having kids more spread out does so most likely it is something else and frankly you need to talk about this because left as it stands your marraige will be over no matter which option you go for. Wife get abortion you leave, wife has baby and is so resentful your marraige ends.

How were the other 3 pregnancies? Did your wife have health issues? Did the babies have health issues when born? What age is your wife? The older she is the higher the chance for issues during pregnancy and birth defects. Did your wife suffer from depression due to the pregnancies? Maybe she did but never told you. 4 young kids can be alot for some people. There's no point in people coming on with stories of X and Y had 10 kids and it was no issue. My dad comes from a family of 12 but that's his family, everyone is different and there are plenty of people who can't cope with one child let alone 4. You need to have a conversation with your wife were you listen to her reasons. I'm not saying you have to agree but you have to listen and at least understand her reasons and only then can you work together. Throwing down ultimatums like do what I say or I'll leave is not how a marriage works.

I am a friend

Distorted wrote: »

I would hope that this is simply due to shock and that he will stop thinking purely in selfish terms about what he wants and consider his family.

Him selfish? She is not talking about refusing to change a car here. She is talking about removing the existence (potential - assuming the pregnancy goes normally) of one of his children from this planet and his future. Of removing a potential sibling for her kids? Who is the selfish one?

You seem to have an axe to grind on this one and maybe have been causght in a similar position to the OP's wife.. Dunno.

The bottom line is that very few people would agree with the fact that he is selfish for wanting his child to live...

Distorted wrote: »

Otherwise she sounds as though she would be better off without him if he is the sort of man who would leave her on a point of principle or force her to have a child she no longer wants.

Or he is better off without a woman who aborts his child without taking his viewpoint into account...

Distorted wrote: »

However, the debate here seems to be from a such a blinkered standpoint - that the wife is being totally unreasonable and no other option than having the baby is acceptable.

Its life or death...

Distorted wrote: »

A woman's right to her own body and to independent thought is secondary to its ability to reproduce and to the father's wishes. Therefore any other option is unreasonable.

Well she should have ensured she could not reproduce if she was so sure she didnt want another one. She is very negligent and is causing her husband much pain due to this.

Distorted wrote: »

In answer to the second part of your comment, people in relationships can get over many things if they choose to do so and care enough about their loved ones. People get over infidelity, raise children that are not their own, infertility - all sorts of things. It is how you deal with such issues marks out what kind of person you are.

She has likely changed the terms of their marriage. If they had a catholic marriage ceremony is it likely she promised her husband that they would accept the children 'god sends them'. She likely agreed and is now changing the terms of their 'deal' without telling him first.

I am pregnant, it was a huge surprise and times are not easy at the moment but I would not go ahead with an abortion without discussion with my OH. Its not decent and its not right. I just dont get it....

ztoical

I am a friend wrote: »

Him selfish? She is not talking about refusing to change a car here. She is talking about removing the existence (potential - assuming the pregnancy goes normally) of one of his children from this planet and his future. Of removing a potential sibling for her kids? Who is the selfish one?

Given none of us know this woman and are only going on the OP's posts we can't say she is being selfish or not. She may be putting her current childrens needs ahead her own wants for all we know. She may have a medical issue she has not discussed with her husband, she may have suffered from depression during one or all of her other pregnancies and may feel she would be unable to go through that again. Her children are very young and dependant on her, she may very well be still breast feeding one while weaning the other. None of us know how difficult her other pregnancies were for her and as the OP has not stated how old his wife is it's hard to judge what sort of effect a pregnacy for her is. Her husband needs to talk to her.

Ickle Magoo

I am a friend infracted for petty insults and off-topic posting & Distorted, stop dragging the thread off-topic by trying to trigger discussion - as warned previously, use the appropriate forum.

While abortion is an emotive issue, it is not up for discussion on this forum. If posters cannot post to offer constructive advice and instead wish a debate on the issue, kindly refrain from posting here and start a thread in Humanities.

Be aware that off-topic and unhelpful posting can earn you a ban from this forum.

If you haven't already done so, please take the time to read the [URL=" http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056181484"]forum rules[/URL] in the charter.

Many thanks.

Kalimah

God love you both. You must be in shock. Personally I'd do nothing yet re any decision about abortion. She's only 6 weeks pregnant so there is some time to think. I'm not in favour of abortion myself as a solution so I can see where the OP is coming from. I have four kids-3 quite close together and one much younger. I thought of abortion for about 5 minutes on the last but that was it.
Best of luck.

PS. I had my second and third child very close together. There's only 13 months between them. It can be done but my advice would be for the OP to have the snip sooner rather than later whether his wife goes through with the pregnancy or not.

KittyeeTrix

_ariadne wrote: »

Have you talked in the past about your differing views on abortion? surely it came up at some point, did you tell her you would leave her if she ever got an abortion? did she indicate to you that an abortion would be on the cards if for whatever reason she did not want a/another child at that particular point?
Its such a pity you are on opposite sides of the table in this and unable to support each other during this difficult time

for my 2cents, I think you should look at the bigger picture and think is it really worth destroying your family just because you are on principal, against abortion. Sometimes things aren't meant to be, focus on your family and you can get through this.

I have to disagree with this post!!!

Me and the hubby have had 4 children in a 8 year period. We've never discussed the topic of abortion but I can pretty much be assured that he would be devastated if I chose to abort our last child:eek:

I too cannot understand the reasoning behind this woman's decision

And I honestly think it was not particularly nice/helpful to tell the OP to look at the "bigger picture".......................I am pro-choice but I can honestly say that if I was married to a female who was happy to abort a child of mine (especially a 4th child) would make it very difficult for me to stay in the relationship.

The OP is just being honest in his views and how he is gonna feel in the future and I think he is definitely thinking more of the "bigger picture" than his missus.........

Also, the OP has a little more vested in this situation than a "PRINCIPLE".......he has the potential life/death of his child at stake and is fully entitled to be downright annoyed/aghast/upset at the decision his missus seems to be making...

I am a friend

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I have to disagree with this post!!!

Me and the hubby have had 4 children in a 8 year period. We've never discussed the topic of abortion but I can pretty much be assured that he would be devastated if I chose to abort our last child:eek:

I too cannot understand the reasoning behind this woman's decision

And I honestly think it was not particularly nice/helpful to tell the OP to look at the "bigger picture".......................I am pro-choice but I can honestly say that if I was married to a female who was happy to abort a child of mine (especially a 4th child) would make it very difficult for me to stay in the relationship.

The OP is just being honest in his views and how he is gonna feel in the future and I think he is definitely thinking more of the "bigger picture" than his missus.........

Also, the OP has a little more vested in this situation than a "PRINCIPLE".......he has the potential life/death of his child at stake and is fully entitled to be downright annoyed/aghast/upset at the decision his missus seems to be making...

Firstly no instults were intended in my last post...

This is how I feel about the situation but fluffyorganic1 has expressed it much more eloquently than I did....

Toots

OP, as some others have said, I'd really recommend that you get some sort of outside help on this one. It's an issue that is bigger than you both. Contact your GP or Positive Options, but for goodness sake don't go through this alone.

I agree with jimmycrackcorn in that you need to probe why your wife can't cope with the thought of a fourth child. Had ye discussed the prospect of having any more children? Is it the prospect of another pregnancy to go through or is it the actual child that she's worried about.

An abortion is not going to be an easy option for your wife either. It's not like she's just going to walk out of the clinic and feel 'well that's that, I can forget about that now'. There'll be huge emotional turmoil for her as well as you, perhaps moreso for her because she may well have the 'guilt' aspect to live with also. This would be exacerbated if she were to terminate and you left her because of it, then she might have to deal with 'I killed my child and broke up my family' type feelings. (Not saying that this is my opinion, however knowing someone who did have a termination, a mutual decision, and the relationship didn't survive afterwards, these were the sort of thoughts she told me she was having).

You are both at polar opposite ends of the decision spectrum here, and neither one seems willing to compromise, from what I can understand from your post. I really think you need to get professional help with this. I wish you all the best.

iguana

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Financially a fourth kid won't make a huge difference - e.g. handing down clothes and cooing for four vs three kids.

Actually there are a few ways that a 4th child can result in huge expense. The main one is that as the law stands they would need to replace their cars with people carriers as it's illegal to carry 4 children in a standard car. These can cost more to insure and bigger cars are often less fuel efficient. Either that or they could go everywhere in a 2 car convoy each bring 2 children but that is obviously still quite expensive in terms of fuel and parking.

If both partners have jobs they could find it very difficult to get childcare for 4 children and it would be so expensive it could very easily come to more than one of their take home pays. If one partner (possibly the mother) stays home but is hoping to return to outside employment this will delay that or even make it permanently infeasible.

_ariadne

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

And I honestly think it was not particularly nice/helpful to tell the OP to look at the "bigger picture"........................

well the 'bigger picture' is that he has three living, breathing children who need him and deserve the best life possible, a divorce or a child the mother will always resent will seriously impact these childrens lives. that is the 'bigger picture'. (IMO) Those children should come first for the OP, and not the 'potential' child.

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I too cannot understand the reasoning behind this woman's decision

This woman may have many reasons, be they medical, emotional, financial or any other. the fact that you or anyone else can cope with four kids does not mean every woman should have to against their will.

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

I am pro-choice but I can honestly say that if I was married to a female who was happy to abort a child of mine (especially a 4th child) would make it very difficult for me to stay in the relationship.

I highly doubt that this woman is happy to abort the child

MadameCholet

Unregistered wrote: »

Hi
Looking for advice. Married almost 6 years- 3 children ages 1,3 and almost 5. Despite using condom (and limited sex life with three young kids) wife has found out she is 6 weeks pregnant. She says she is going to have an abortion as can't cope with thought of a 4th child.

I have told her I won't go to UK with her for the abortion and want her to have the child. Finances are tight but we will manage. Don't think I can change her mind and don't think I can stay with her knowing she killed our child.

Any advice?

I don't blame her. It sounds like the right decision. Why would you want to talk her out of it? 6 weeks is so early? Are you seriously campaigning for the rights of a blastocyst? Your wife's mental health and the stability of your family should come before a blastocyst..... It's a total no-brainter.

MadameCholet

Fluffyorganic, you're a man I take it?

Seriously you could never imagine in a million years what it's like to be pregnant and how long it seems to go on for, and how every pregnancy leaves you a bit more knacked than the one before it..., and pregnant with a gaggle of demanding younger children, and then you have to GIVE birth, which is no picnic believe me, and you feel awful and tired and unattractive, and then you have to breastfeed and have sore breasts, or you have to formula feed and feel guilty about it. And you have to get up at 1am and 3 am and five am, and then you have to do everything that you would have had to do ANYway the next day.

how can people scratch their heads in bafflement saying they can't understand her decision!? Oh come on.

PS, I totally agree with the poster ARiadne who says that she doubts the OP's wife is "happy" to have an abortion. An abortion is not what she wants. What she WANTS is not to be pregnant.

prinz

_ariadne wrote: »

well the 'bigger picture' is that he has three living, breathing children who need him and deserve the best life possible, a divorce or a child the mother will always resent will seriously impact these childrens lives. that is the 'bigger picture'. (IMO) Those children should come first for the OP, and not the 'potential' child.

As a matter of interest how do you think the children will be impacted in later years if they come to know that their mother had an abortion? This concept of being satisfied with three kids so why should the OP be bothered by anymore is baffling.

MadameCholet wrote: »

It sounds like the right decision.

Not in the OP's opinion.

_ariadne

prinz wrote: »

As a matter of interest how do you think the children will be impacted in later years if they come to know that their mother had an abortion?

lol, I have no idea? I can't read minds. Personally, if it were me and I found out my mother had an abortion I would feel sad for her that she had had to make that difficult decision. The idea that the children could somehow grow up and resent their mother for having an abortion is awful, hopefully she and the OP will raise them better than that.

prinz wrote: »

This concept of being satisfied with three kids so why should the OP be bothered by anymore is baffling.

I think you're missing the point, as I said in my original post, it is obviously sad for the OP (and likely his wife) to not get to meet this child. it is not a happy situation at all. But regardless, the living children should be the most important thing.

prinz

_ariadne wrote: »

lol, I have no idea? I can't read minds. Personally, if it were me and I found out my mother had an abortion I would feel sad for her that she had had to make that difficult decision. The idea that the children could somehow grow up and resent their mother for having an abortion is awful, hopefully she and the OP will raise them better than that.

It has nothing to do with how well you are raised to be fair. The idea that the mother will resent a child she gives birth to would also raise questions would it not? Oh no, apparently resenting your children for something completely beyond their control is ok, resenting your parents for something that is in their control is not.

_ariadne wrote: »

....or a child the mother will always resent....

Tbh after the recommendation for counselling/positive options the thread has really outlived it's usefulness, nobody can tell the OP what the right thing to do is unfortunately. Just wish him and his family the best.

seenitall

prinz wrote: »

It has nothing to do with how well you are raised to be fair. The idea that the mother will resent a child she gives birth to would also raise questions would it not? Oh no, apparently resenting your children for something completely beyond their control is ok,

Resentment, along with any and all other emotions, need not be "ok", or rooted in reality, or morally acceptable, etc. etc. to be valid. Emotions are what they are. If someone doesn't want a child and is forced or cajoled to carry it to term, I can easily imagine them feeling resentment toward that child. Hell yes! It doesn't mean they are a monster, it just means they really did not want to have that child.

prinz

seenitall wrote: »

Resentment, along with any and all other emotions, need not be "ok", or rooted in reality, or morally acceptable, etc. etc. to be valid. Emotions are what they are. If someone doesn't want a child and is forced or cajoled to carry it to term, I can easily imagine them feeling resentment toward that child. Hell yes! It doesn't mean they are a monster, it just means they did not want to have that child.

OH I accept that it can happen, just question the logic between acknowledging the above and then claiming that anyone who grows to resent the parents over the same issue must not have been well raised etc.

ztoical

prinz wrote: »

As a matter of interest how do you think the children will be impacted in later years if they come to know that their mother had an abortion? This concept of being satisfied with three kids so why should the OP be bothered by anymore is baffling.

why would it have any impact on the kids now or in the future? Other then the obvious conflict it's causing the parents. Seriously it will have zero impact on them unless they are raised to vilify anyone whose had an abortion like someone out of the westboro baptist church. My mother had a miscarriage, a live birth that died after 3 mins, two miscarriages, me, three more miscarriages and my brother. The baby that died was carried to term....that child was an actual sibling to me and my brother and he has had zero impact on my brother and I, I'm not even sure my brother even knows about him or any of the miscarriages. Do I ever think o I could have had another brother...nope. The only reason I know about him was it was due health reasons he died and that my mum had so many miscarriages and it could effect me if I wanted kids. I remember being very young when she had one of the miscarriages. I asked when the baby I had been told about was coming, was told it wasn't and that was the last I thought about it.

prinz

ztoical wrote: »

Seriously it will have zero impact on them unless they are raised to vilify anyone whose had an abortion like someone out of the westboro baptist church. .

You have no guarantee in making a claim that it will have zero impact. Maybe it will maybe it won't. There are studies to show that it can affect siblings but of course there is no point in referencing this as it will just be dismissed with a shrug anyway. People react differently. Nice attempt at portraying anybody who has issues with abortions as some sort of nut though.