The Occupied Six Counties

POINTBREAK

I saw the news earlier where a representative from Eirígí was talking about a protest when the Queen arrives about the occupied six counties.
Please stop trying to save us Northerners from this "occupation"
We have our own government
Free Health care
All the rights we can handle, and on top of that the British Government is giving us £8 billion pounds a year.
In a population of 1.7 million we have
750,000 in work
60,000 unemployed
180,000 unable to work due to illness
700,000 economically inactive, mostly Students School Children and Pensioners. (all figures rounded to the nearest 10k
65% of the people in work are in the Public Service. In other words they work for the government.
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Go away and leave us alone.

Jim236

Who's this "us"? What about the 45% of the North's population who don't want to be in the UK?

And why are you boasting about so many people out of work?

mike65

Jim236 they can leave, and join this florushing republic or they can live in a free democracy and bide their time until they have outbred the Unionists sufficiently.

POINTBREAK

Jim236 wrote: »

Who's this "us"? What about the 45% of the North's population who don't want to be in the UK?

And why are you boasting about so many people out of work?

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What 45% that don't want to be in the UK?
I am not boasting about having people out of work. I am demonstrating that we would be all living in poverty here if it wasn't for the £8 billion donation some people are trying to save us from.

alchemist33

Haven't I seen this thread somewhere before?

Jim236

mike65 wrote: »

Jim236 they can leave, and join this florushing republic or they can live in a free democracy and bide their time until they have outbred the Unionists sufficiently.

Thank you for those wise words of wisdom mike, but why should either community have to leave? Unionists have as much a place on this island as Nationalists, and Nationalists had an artificial border imposed on them against their will so its not for them to go anywhere.

I'm just pointing out to pointbreak that not everyone wants to stay in the UK, regardless of what he might like to think.

Jim236

Jim236 wrote: »

I'm just pointing out to pointbreak that not everyone wants to stay in the UK, regardless of what he might like to think.

and those people are stupid arent they, to wish to be poorer and saddled with debt.

POINTBREAK

Jim236 wrote: »

Thank you for those wise words of wisdom mike, but why should either community have to leave? Unionists have as much a place on this island as Nationalists, and Nationalists had an artificial border imposed on them against their will so its not for them to go anywhere.

I'm just pointing out to pointbreak that not everyone wants to stay in the UK, regardless of what he might like to think.

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I didn't say they did Jim. I am pointing out the absurdity of throwing those nasty Brits out of the North and saving THEM £8 Billion a year. I mean that'll teach them a lesson won't it?

KeithAFC

I agree. Its a great country. And if a UI ever does happen, i will be jumping on the Ulster nationalist bandwagon and im imagine many people like me will too.

Jim236

KeithAFC wrote: »

I agree. Its a great country. And if a UI ever does happen, i will be jumping on the Ulster nationalist bandwagon and im imagine many people like me will too.

Ah, so you only support democracy when it goes in your favour? Its people like you that make me wonder why we're even bothering with the GFA and respecting the democratic wish of the majority, when you clearly have no intention of respecting the wish of the majority should they vote for a United Ireland.

KeithAFC

Jim236 wrote: »

Ah, so you only support democracy when it goes in your favour? Its people like you that make me wonder why we're even bothering with the GFA and respecting the democratic wish of the majority, when you clearly have no intention of respecting the wish of the majority should they vote for a United Ireland.

I will. Don't get me wrong, but it will be the next political movement though for the Ulster Scots.

POINTBREAK

Jim236 wrote: »

You're a complete hypocrite. You're moaning about the dependence of the North on subvention from the UK but then when given the opportunity to reduce this dependence through the devolvement of taxation powers to bring in foreign direct investment, you argue against it in another thread. Make up your mind.

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I wasn't moaning about subvention at all. I am all for it, as anyone with any sense would be. I was pointing out that economically it doesn't quite stack up.
To get near to replacing that £8 billion by creating jobs we would need to have an extra 1 million working, earning 32k each and paying 25% income tax. Its just not possible.

POINTBREAK

Northern Ireland depends on public spending for 77 per cent of economic activity, according to a recent study. Its dependence on welfare is also high. A third of the workforce is defined as economically inactive – twice the national levels – while 10 per cent is on disability benefit – 20 per cent in the economically deprived area of west Belfast.

sollar

English nationalism could be the next big thing. The time of the scottish referendum may focus minds in england. No doubt NI would go it alone for a while but would struggle i'd say.

cc87

that was probably just some sinn feiner who has no idea about anything relevant and relies on mindless comments like that to gain votes from celtic jersey wearing dimwits

SomethingElse

POINTBREAK wrote: »

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I wasn't moaning about subvention at all. I am all for it, as anyone with any sense would be. I was pointing out that economically it doesn't quite stack up.
To get near to replacing that £8 billion by creating jobs we would need to have an extra 1 million working, earning 32k each and paying 25% income tax. Its just not possible.

It would probably require a considerably lower amount of workers than that. Perhaps half that figure.

LondonIrish90

Jim236 wrote: »

Ah, so you only support democracy when it goes in your favour?

Is that not what you have done in this thread?

As it stands, the will of the people of Northern Ireland is to be a part of the United Kingdom. They are not an occupied region, they are a democratic constituent country of a foreign state.

Your point about 45% not wanting to be a part of this foreign state is irrelevant for the moment, is it not? For every 45 people from the North who want to join the republic, there are a few more who don't. Democracy in action which you should really have no opposition to in this thread. That is unless you only support democracy when it goes in your favour?

nordydan

KeithAFC wrote: »

I will. Don't get me wrong, but it will be the next political movement though for the Ulster Scots.

Good luck in supporting yourselves, your only export is Bushmills...

nordydan

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Is that not what you have done in this thread?

As it stands, the will of the people of Northern Ireland is to be a part of the United Kingdom. They are not an occupied region, they are a democratic constituent country of a foreign state.

Your point about 45% not wanting to be a part of this foreign state is irrelevant for the moment, is it not? For every 45 people from the North who want to join the republic, there are a few more who don't. Democracy in action which you should really have no opposition to in this thread. That is unless you only support democracy when it goes in your favour?

As John Hume once said ("Ireland's Greatest", Nobel Prize Winner - you know the man), democracy doesn't mean that 51% of the population vote to put the other 49% to death....

KeithAFC

nordydan wrote: »

As John Hume once said ("Ireland's Greatest", Nobel Prize Winner - you know the man), democracy doesn't mean that 51% of the population vote to put the other 49% to death....

Democracy is in work every day Nordydan in Northern Ireland/Ulster.

nordydan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Democracy is in work every day Nordydan in Northern Ireland/Ulster.

Is that NI or Ulster you're talking about there?

KeithAFC

nordydan wrote: »

Is that NI or Ulster you're talking about there?

Northern Ireland/Ulster.

puppetmaster

KeithAFC wrote: »

Northern Ireland/Ulster.

The north you mean?

lol, or is it the six counties.

:D

conscious

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I saw the news earlier where a representative from Eirígí was talking about a protest when the Queen arrives about the occupied six counties.
Please stop trying to save us Northerners from this "occupation"
We have our own government
Free Health care
All the rights we can handle, and on top of that the British Government is giving us £8 billion pounds a year.
In a population of 1.7 million we have
750,000 in work
60,000 unemployed
180,000 unable to work due to illness
700,000 economically inactive, mostly Students School Children and Pensioners. (all figures rounded to the nearest 10k
65% of the people in work are in the Public Service. In other words they work for the government.
-
Go away and leave us alone.

If you were a child, would you leave your mam and dad because these two strangers said they could provide better for you?

KeithAFC

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You claiming Ulster now equals Northern Ireland?? You're not the brightest are you?

Northern Ireland is 6 counties of the 9 counties of Ulster. Many people call it N.I/Ulster/Province.

Lets not make a big deal out of it. I call it Ulster. Others don't.

Coillte_Bhoy

KeithAFC wrote: »

Northern Ireland is 6 counties of the 9 counties of Ulster. Many people call it N.I/Ulster/Province.

Lets not make a big deal out of it. I call it Ulster. Others don't.

I am well aware of what constitues Ulster and northern ireland and dont need a lesson from the likes of you. You call it Ulster, knowing full well that it only encompasses roughly 2/3 of what is actually Ulster? oh dear:rolleyes:

jimmycrackcorm

Jim236 wrote: »

Who's this "us"? What about the 45% of the North's population who don't want to be in the UK?

I'm in Donegal close to the border, I work in the south with a lot of people from the north. I don't know a single person who feels "occupied". where are you getting 45% from?

nordydan

KeithAFC wrote: »

Northern Ireland is 6 counties of the 9 counties of Ulster. Many people call it N.I/Ulster/Province.

Lets not make a big deal out of it. I call it Ulster. Others don't.

Most don't. Because they can read a map.

KeithAFC

nordydan wrote: »

Most don't. Because they can read a map.

I could argue against that. Many times do you hear Unionists/Loyalists/Protestants calling it Ulster/Province. I suppose we could call it the majority of Ulster.

nordydan

KeithAFC wrote: »

I could argue against that. Many times do you hear Unionists/Loyalists/Protestants calling it Ulster/Province. I suppose we could call it the majority of Ulster.

You could call it the majority of Narnia for all you want!

NI <> Ulster. Even HM government say so!

Caoimhín

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I saw the news earlier where a representative from Eirígí was talking.

Theres your problem right there.

TheGodBen

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I am well aware of what constitues Ulster and northern ireland and dont need a lesson from the likes of you. You call it Ulster, knowing full well that it only encompasses roughly 2/3 of what is actually Ulster? oh dear:rolleyes:

Our country calls itself Ireland, knowing full well that it only makes up ~80% of the island of Ireland. Should we change our name to Southern Ireland just to clear things up? Because the British government wanted us change our name for decades before finally realising in 1998 that this sort of pedanticism doesn't matter.

Let him refer to his country as Ulster if he wants to, it doesn't hurt anyone. And it will give him one less thing to be objectionable about.

POINTBREAK

SomethingElse wrote: »

It would probably require a considerably lower amount of workers than that. Perhaps half that figure.

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I think it would actually take quite a few more. My rough calculation was based on earnings of 1 million workers being 32k a year (= £32 billion) when the average wage is less than 22k, and the tax rate being 25% (of £32 billion =£8 billion) when it is actually 21%. But even having "1 million extra jobs in a population of 1.7 million is clearly absurdity.

POINTBREAK

conscious wrote: »

If you were a child, would you leave your mam and dad because these two strangers said they could provide better for you?

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No, why? Do you think that its the same thing, because it clearly isn't?

seamus

Jim236 wrote: »

Who's this "us"? What about the 45% of the North's population who don't want to be in the UK?

Care to cite this figure Jim?

I'd wager that you can't.

KeithAFC

Probably just a broad number?

francis1978

nordydan wrote: »

Good luck in supporting yourselves, your only export is Bushmills...

went up to bushmills last year and done the tour beautiful part of the world, the gentleman doing the tour informed us that the barley is imported from cork !!!!

dan_d

Hmm.! Well, I'm pretty happy for the UK Government to keep you guys going.

We sure as hell can't afford to.....

Mr. Presentable

POINTBREAK wrote: »

Northern Ireland depends on public spending for 77 per cent of economic activity, according to a recent study. Its dependence on welfare is also high. A third of the workforce is defined as economically inactive – twice the national levels – while 10 per cent is on disability benefit – 20 per cent in the economically deprived area of west Belfast.

This because it is engineered to be dependant. It has long been the best way to ensure compliance - control the pocket.

Coillte_Bhoy

TheGodBen wrote: »

Our country calls itself Ireland, knowing full well that it only makes up ~80% of the island of Ireland. Should we change our name to Southern Ireland just to clear things up? Because the British government wanted us change our name for decades before finally realising in 1998 that this sort of pedanticism doesn't matter.

Let him refer to his country as Ulster if he wants to, it doesn't hurt anyone. And it will give him one less thing to be objectionable about.

Our country is Ireland, the whole island. Our state is called Eire, Republic of Ireland etc

Bottle_of_Smoke

POINTBREAK wrote: »

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I think it would actually take quite a few more. My rough calculation was based on earnings of 1 million workers being 32k a year (= £32 billion) when the average wage is less than 22k, and the tax rate being 25% (of £32 billion =£8 billion) when it is actually 21%. But even having "1 million extra jobs in a population of 1.7 million is clearly absurdity.

I'd say less because it would mean less spending on benefits/rent allowance etc. Would also mean a boost in the economy and vat/corporation tax receipts etc.

Though you are correct, given the current numbers it would be an absurd figure whatever it is

Dogdaysareover

POINTBREAK wrote: »

I saw the news earlier where a representative from Eirígí was talking about a protest when the Queen arrives about the occupied six counties.
Please stop trying to save us Northerners from this "occupation"
We have our own government
Free Health care
All the rights we can handle, and on top of that the British Government is giving us £8 billion pounds a year.
In a population of 1.7 million we have
750,000 in work
60,000 unemployed
180,000 unable to work due to illness
700,000 economically inactive, mostly Students School Children and Pensioners. (all figures rounded to the nearest 10k
65% of the people in work are in the Public Service. In other words they work for the government.
-
Go away and leave us alone.

Stopped reading after I saw the word Eirigi:rolleyes:

sollar

I don't know why northern ireland wanted to retain ireland in the name and then get all hot and bothered when there are called irish.

Cú Giobach

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Our country is Ireland, the whole island. Our state is called Eire, Republic of Ireland etc

The state is named Ireland in English and Éire in Irish. The island is also named Ireland and there is no such country named The Republic of Ireland.

POINTBREAK

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

This because it is engineered to be dependant. It has long been the best way to ensure compliance - control the pocket.

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I doubt the British Government is that clever. You forget that NI had at one time 60,000 employed in Shipbuilding alone and I'm sure the same number in heavy engineering. The linen trade and tobacco industries also employed thousands.
I'm pretty sure we didn't always get a grant.

sollar

I would love to see NI go it alone for a while if england decides to go it alone also. They would see how difficut it is to run a small country and there would be less sneering from them at us when daddy england is no longer there to carry them.

POINTBREAK

sollar wrote: »

I would love to see NI go it alone for a while if england decides to go it alone also. They would see how difficut it is to run a small country and there would be less sneering from them at us when daddy england is no longer there to carry them.

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What about Scotland and Wales? They get a bigger grant than NI. Would you like the English to keep all the money for themselves?
NI can not go it alone. We rely on Britain to keep us afloat. So my message to republicans is stop trying to liberate us into poverty.

KeithAFC

The truth is we have our country, Irish republicans have their country. The whole protests over the Queen tell us this. They don't want her in the Republic but don't mind her being in Northern Ireland. I and many people like me don't want to join an Irish republic. And many many catholics feel the same.

Have your political views but I wish the small element within the Republican movement would stop with the violence and stop trying to blow us off the island. It will not work, your guns only make our cause grow stronger and our will to resist bigger.

sollar

KeithAFC wrote: »

Have your political views but I wish the small element within the Republican movement would stop with the violence and stop trying to blow us off the island. It will not work, your guns only make our cause grow stronger and our will to resist bigger.

I agree completely with that. How they think they can bomb the majority of a population into change i just don't know.

Iwasfrozen

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The state is named Ireland in English and Éire in Irish. The island is also named Ireland and there is no such country named The Republic of Ireland.

Tell it to FIFA. :P

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Our country is Ireland, the whole island. Our state is called Eire, Republic of Ireland etc

Define country. If you mean a set of distinct people with shared culture distinct from other cultures then by your definition Keith is right to call Ulster a country.

TheGodBen

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Our state is called Eire, Republic of Ireland etc

Our state is called Ireland (in English), as spelled out in Article 4 of the constitution. The Republic of Ireland Act 1948 did not change the name of the state, just the description of the state. The British government used to refer to us as the Republic of Ireland or the Irish Republic as an objection to the claims this state made on Northern Ireland, but when the Good Friday Agreement passed in 1998 the British government dropped their objection and accepted that the state's name is just Ireland.

When Keith refers to Northern Ireland as Ulster, it doesn't mean that he's claiming ownership of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, so I don't see the need for an objection to it.