Clyde FC

DB10

This club should be in serious bother for the behaviour of their players in recent weeks, in the media ****storm re Lennon, this has went below the radar.

http://twitpic.com/4wffrl

For anyone who cant see that, its a social network status from last night, wishing death on Neil Lennon and his family....:eek:

John Stewart a prominent footballer for Clyde FC. Disgusting and he should be instantly sacked.


This comes two weeks after another of their players was sacked for the same comments on Lennon, along with several others at different clubs.

Youth players at Clyde and Berwick have been sacked and two more face investigations over social media postings about Celtic boss Neil Lennon.
News of parcel bombs being sent to Lennon and two prominent Celtic fans prompted a blizzard of comments on sites like Twitter and Facebook.
St Mirren and Motherwell are conducting internal probes on the matter.
Teenagers at Clyde and Berwick have had their contracts terminated for posting offensive messages.
Strathclyde Police said the two packages sent to Lennon, and others to lawyer Paul McBride QC and former MSP Trish Godman, were "designed to cause real harm to the person who opened them".
On Wednesday, Berwick Rangers immediately jettisoned one of their Under-17 players after he admitted saying on Twitter that he wished the parcel bomb had killed Lennon.
And, on Thursday evening, Clyde revealed that they had taken similar steps.
A statement from the Third Division club said that the player "has apologised profusely for his words and deeply regrets the distress that his action has caused".
It added: "Clyde FC equally regrets the offensive remarks by the player and have contacted Celtic FC to apologise for this matter."
St Mirren say: "Allegations of posts being made by players to social network sites have been brought to our attention.
"Subject to the club's disciplinary procedure a full investigation has been launched so it would therefore be inappropriate to comment further at this time.
"The club condemns all sectarian behaviour and supports all efforts to eradicate it from the Scottish game."
Two of the four parcels were intercepted at Royal Mail sorting offices last month, both addressed to the Celtic manager. The first one was found in Saltcoats, Ayrshire, on 4 March and the second was intercepted on 26 March in Kirkintilloch, East Dunbartonshire.
Two days later a parcel for Ms Godman, former deputy presiding officer of the Scottish Parliament, was delivered to her constituency office.
The most recent package was intercepted last Friday at a post box in Montgomerie Terrace in Kilwinning, Ayrshire, addressed to Mr McBride, who represented Lennon during his recent dispute with the Scottish Football Association.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/13164281.stm

Disgusting stuff that. Scottish football is a mess.

And yet we see footballers in England penalised for the most innocent of twitter comments.

Ickle Magoo

Perhaps they could just ring-fence strathclyde? I think many people and clubs in scotland would be delighted to see the back of the old firm and all the petty sectarian rubbish they drag around with them...and berwick rangers - who are an english club playing in scotland, aren't they?

MUSEIST

I think all these spl threads should be thrown into a mega thread, the spl anarchy discussion thread.

DB10

MUSEIST wrote: »

I think all these spl threads should be thrown into a mega thread, the spl anarchy discussion thread.

Clyde arent in the SPL....;)

MUSEIST

DB10 wrote: »

Clyde arent in the SPL....;)

meh........scottish league then:P, shows how much attention I pay to scottish football:pac:

cardwizzard

Hope they throw the book at him. Banned for at least a season. This club seem to be unable to keep their trap shut.

Coillte_Bhoy

Apart from his hate filled rant, he should be banned for pure stupidity alone posting stuff like that openlly.:rolleyes:

Professional Griefer

DB10 wrote: »

This club should be in serious bother for the behaviour of their players in recent weeks, in the media ****storm re Lennon, this has went below the radar.

http://twitpic.com/4wffrl

For anyone who cant see that, its a social network status from last night, wishing death on Neil Lennon and his family....:eek:

John Stewart a prominent footballer for Clyde FC. Disgusting and he should be instantly sacked.


This comes two weeks after another of their players was sacked for the same comments on Lennon, along with several others at different clubs.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/scotland/13164281.stm

Disgusting stuff that. Scottish football is a mess.

And yet we see footballers in England penalised for the most innocent of twitter comments.

I can't believe that, the club have to fire him/terminate his contract, its fair game hoping someone loses, or hating another club and their fans, banter and the what not, wishing death on someone? From a fan you wouldn't be too surprised, but a player. Beyond shocking.

WallyGUFC

Scottish football - what a jokeshop.

cardwizzard

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Scottish football - what a jokeshop.

Thats deep thinking.

ColeTrain

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Perhaps they could just ring-fence strathclyde? I think many people and clubs in scotland would be delighted to see the back of the old firm and all the petty sectarian rubbish they drag around with them...and berwick rangers - who are an english club playing in scotland, aren't they?

lol I'm sure they would.

Celtic and Rangers are propping up the SPL, most clubs depend on them to give them a couple of gates a season with their away support. Even the TV deal depends on the interest of the two clubs. Not to mention what the supporters give to the economy.

For what it's worth I'd love to see Celtic move out of the SPL and play in a proper league where incidents like last night can be avoided.

Ickle Magoo

Yes, because you don't see celtic fans causing trouble. :rolleyes:

They are both as bad as each other...a two horse race with all that political baggage is hardly a league worth having. Perhaps celtic could move to a proper league...like LOI... :pac:

A Dub in Glasgo

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Yes, because you don't see celtic fans causing trouble. :rolleyes:

They are both as bad as each other...:

This is usual mantra spouted out by the media. There is no evidence to support it.

ColeTrain

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Yes, because you don't see celtic fans causing trouble. :rolleyes:

They are both as bad as each other...a two horse race with all that political baggage is hardly a league worth having. Perhaps celtic could move to a proper league...like LOI... :pac:

Where did I say Celtic fans never caused trouble? Actually who mentioned the word trouble at all?!

As for your daft second comment, it shows up your lack of knowledge on the subject and I'm not going to bother getting into it.


Neil Lennon has been in the news a lot lately. Whenever a incident occurs, it gets posted on here and people will throw some digs in at Celtic or the SPL. Fact is it gets turned into the whole Celtic are worse than Rangers debate. When you try to argue your case it then becomes another "SPL anarchy discussion".

There is a title up for grabs Sunday but it's not the main topic of discussion at the moment. What's being discussed is the safety and well being of a manager who is not allowed to do his job and has had his life threatened because of his creed and nationality. It makes me sick that Lennon may be not be around next season. If Alex Ferguson's life was threatened like that would it not be as relevant, I doubt there would be as much trolling going on though.

Ickle Magoo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

This is usual mantra spouted out by the media. There is no evidence to support it.

No celtic fan jailed for racist jibes at Diouf? No diverted air-craft due to brawling fans returning from the tie with Celta Viga? Do you think Lincoln City agree with your statement? Having witnessed many a celtic & rangers fan starting trouble, I'm not sure who you think is going to be convinced with the paragon of virtue routine?

donfers

nobody is saying celtic fans are angels, paragons of virtue or exempt from criticism

however the bullets and bombs in the post and thugs hanging outside the training-ground with a gun, the attempted physical assault of a manager at the game are all unprecedented events and have taken the nasty stuff to a whole new extreme, and all of that has been directed at celtic alone - that is why celtic fans don't like the "ah they're all as bad as each other" stuff

if two parties are insulting each other on the street and one takes it to the next level and tries to kill the other i don't think they should be judged equally

still i do accept that this trying to gain the moral high ground strategy isn't really going to solve anything

the authorities have to display a more enlightened and open-minded approach (than many of the fans on either side display) to dealing with this near insurmountable problem of sectarianism and bigotry that is ingrained generations deep - i have little faith that they have the know-how, competence or ability to do so however

Ickle Magoo

So, how to deal with it?

It's an absolute embarrassment that a young man is getting assaulted on the side-lines or bullets in the post for managing a football team. I'm sick of hearing about the trouble caused by religion in scottish football - the vast bulk of which originates &/or resides in one corner of the country.

donfers

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So, how to deal with it?

It's an absolute embarrassment that a young man is getting assaulted on the side-lines or bullets in the post for managing a football team. I'm sick of hearing about the trouble caused by religion in scottish football - the vast bulk of which originates &/or resides in one corner of the country.

yes it's really tough to think of solutions, certainly there will be no overnight redemption for scottish football

these debates often (actually almost always) turn into a kind of circle-jerk blame game (i'm as guilty of that as most) and you have asked the essential and most important question that is so often not asked - how to solve the mess?


some say the first steps should be tougher disciplinary measures for stuff like sectarian chanting and fans running onto the pitch, rangers have been charged with this stuff and got a light fine and suspended sentences, i'd suggest that tougher disciplinary measures be applied like heavy fines, games being played behind closed doors and points deductions, no point in tiptoeing around the issue

let's hope also that the folks who spout sectarian garbage on twitter are sacked by their clubs, so far that has happened

this is all tip of the iceberg stuff though, a lot of people want an end to the separate schooling issue and get these protestant and catholic kids growing up together and realising that the other is not some alien monster

another thing to consider is that large parts of glasgow are basically an economic underclass and certainly some regeneration schemes while not directly addressing the problem could ultimately have beneficial effects

i would also suggest more joint statements issued by celtic/rangers with regard to tackling the problem, at times both sides seem more interested in winning a PR battle than actually doing away with the stuff they are complaining about

oh and if all this doesn't work, we will just have to merge the clubs, how does celtic rangers sound?

Ickle Magoo

The school thing makes no real sense in scotland - it's not like here, the vast majority of schools (4-1 ratio I think) are secular.

I'm an east coaster, who's fathers best friend was a catholic rangers fan so the whole sectarian aspect largely passed me by until I was old enough to understand what was going on and what the songs being sung at games actually meant...I'd say the majority of scots are not bigots or sectarian but are fed up with constantly getting their names dragged through the mud - I think taking a much tougher stance would be a popular move nationally.

I'm just not sure how you cut the sectarianism out of that rivalry though, that's what it is built on - if it's not the team attracting biggots then it's biggots being raised to support the team. There are plenty of deprived areas in scotland and fierce rivalries and yet none seem to muster the hatred and vitrol between ibrox and celtic park.

How does celtic rangers sound? A recipe for disaster, tbh...

stevoslice

in 2003 Celtic Fans (i.e. not the team) won the UEFA fair play award for their exemplary behaviour when travelling throughout europe.

in 2008 Rangers fans went on a rampage through manchester causing thousands of pounds worth of damage.

i don't blame Celtic fans for getting their noses out of joint when accused of being as bad as Rangers fans. All this hatred that seems to have exploded in Scottish Football is all directed at one club, of course there is going to be a siege mentality.

Saying that fighting back with more bigotted crap is counter productive, but turning the other cheek isn't very easy to do.

Ickle Magoo

I don't think picking one example of celtic fans good behaviour from eight years ago to compare with one incident of rangers fans being stupid makes your argument particularly convincing.

Ironically, the bigger problem is the two main protagonists do little to stop the bigoted nonsense preferring to spend most of the time pointing their fingers at each other and carrying on an elaborate game of PR we're the good guys/one-up-man ship.

I don't think there is hatred being directed at one club, I think there is anger and frustration being aimed at at least two who can't seem to/don't seem to want to drag themselves out of petty tribalism.

stevoslice

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't think picking one example of celtic fans good behaviour from eight years ago to compare with one incident of rangers fans being stupid makes your argument particularly convincing.

Ironically, the bigger problem is the two main protagonists do little to stop the bigoted nonsense preferring to spend most of the time pointing their fingers at each other and carrying on an elaborate game of PR we're the good guys/one-up-man ship.

I don't think there is hatred being directed at one club, I think there is anger and frustration being aimed at at least two who can't seem to/don't seem to want to drag themselves out of petty tribalism.

It is pretty obvious that both clubs have their problems, as have lots of clubs, it was only a few months back when a Liverpool - Utd U/18 game descended into a very heated atmosphere which resulted in a few hate-filled chants from some sections of the support.

IMO Celtic are trying to improve themselves, my point was that its not very easy to do when your team's manager and some supporters are sent bullets and parcel bombs, and every time a discussion is started on the issue, Celtic fans receive the same amount of blame for the current state of scottish football as the idiotic bigots who actually attempt to murder a man and his family over football/nationality/religion.

This is the wrong thread for this discussion though, so i might as well leave it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

No celtic fan jailed for racist jibes at Diouf? No diverted air-craft due to brawling fans returning from the tie with Celta Viga? Do you think Lincoln City agree with your statement? Having witnessed many a celtic & rangers fan starting trouble, I'm not sure who you think is going to be convinced with the paragon of virtue routine?

Yeah I forgot the bit where Celtic fans thrashed Seville, Barcelona and other cities through out Europe. I forgot the bit where Walter smith was sent parcel bombs and bullets through the post, I forgot the bit where Walter Smith was attacked and hospitalised whilst out socialising in Glasgow, I forgot the bit where Celtic did not receive commendations from UEFA and FIFA for their fans behaviour abroad.

There are muppets in the Celtic support just like any other support of a football club. You stated that Celtic fans are as bad as Rangers fans. I said there is no evidence of that and it is a lazy comparison. You provided some evidence that shows muppetry in the Celtic support and no evidence to support your statement. I understand why you made the comparison as it is a comparison frequently made in the media with no evidence to support it.

Ickle Magoo

So we've established that there are some muppets who support celtic - and there are clearly some lunatics that support rangers. Other than throwing the book at both of those sets, something has done to stop the sectarian chanting, jibes and attacks that both clubs allow to form around themselves and their terraces every week. There is rivalry and then there is hate-filled knuckle dragging.

stovelid

As an SPL outsider, the whole Old Firm irritates me beyond belief. I can actually understand that while both clubs obviously have a sectarian element, it would seem obvious even to me that Rangers have been far worse offenders down the years.

That said, any Celtic supporter I know seems to spend a disproportionate amount of time thinking about Rangers and the constant PR struggle between both - acted out over Facebook and Internet forums - is beyond tiresome for non-acolytes. About as tiresome as being told by Irish people that Celtic are an Irish club, to be honest. In a weird way, both clubs seem to constantly define themselves exclusively in terms of each other. You almost feel that sectarian outrages like this are almost grist to the mill in some bizarre self-perpetuating way.

Obviously not downplaying the sectarian abuse that Lennon is receiving from Loyalists which is simply criminal scum behaviour of the very highest order.

GavRedKing

Avoiding the usual Celtic V Rangers crap, the twitter comments by any player wishing harm or hoping harm or injury on another professional is just stupid.

Players should be warned about using social networks, especially when they cant control what they say.

PauloMN

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

So, how to deal with it?

It's an absolute embarrassment that a young man is getting assaulted on the side-lines or bullets in the post for managing a football team. I'm sick of hearing about the trouble caused by religion in scottish football - the vast bulk of which originates &/or resides in one corner of the country.

Can I ask how religion is the cause of this? Neither of the mainstream religions in Scotland teach people hate, or promote sectarianism. People are doing that all by themselves. This is a societal problem, not a religious problem. It is a people problem and needs to be addressed as such. If it was caused by religion, it would be happening everywhere, not just in Scotland.

gustavo

gavredking wrote: »

Avoiding the usual Celtic V Rangers crap, the twitter comments by any player wishing harm or hoping harm or injury on another professional is just stupid.

Players should be warned about using social networks, especially when they cant control what they say.

You do have to wonder how retarded these people are to not think that their comments on Twitter/Facebook will be scrutinized. Especially after people doing the same thing got sacked from their club a few weeks ago

The_Kew_Tour

Does anyone here actually live in Scotland now that is Irish and with Irish accent?

How have you been treated there?

I have been to Scotland about 30 times mainly Edinburgh and never came across anything sinister towards me cause im Irish..

A Dub in Glasgo

I have lived in Scotland (Glasgow) for nearly 18 years and apart from a couple of close calls, I have been fine. Almost all the Rangers fans I know through work & neighbours are absolutely fine to me personally. The most I have had is their belief (wrong imo) that Catholic schools are the cause of the mayhem in Scotland. However, I cannot comment on life in the schemes as I do not live in them. The close calls I referred to earlier was when I was walking through some of the less salubrious parts of Glasgow.

It should also be noted that it is not obvious at all that I am a Celtic fan (I rarely wear Celtic material and I have no tattoos). If I was to sum up Scotland, there are a lot of 90 mintute bigots out there, some of who will take it further with the anti Catholic & anti Irish stuff.

There are a lot of territorial gangs in Glasgow and the football thing adds a bit of extra incentive so in some ways this is your normal ned / scumbag behaviour wrapped up in football rivalry.

The nutjobs who are taking this up a few levels with their bombs, bullets and assaults is scary as they appear to have moved from the 90 minute brigade to full time.

Ickle Magoo

PauloMN wrote: »

Can I ask how religion is the cause of this? Neither of the mainstream religions in Scotland teach people hate, or promote sectarianism. People are doing that all by themselves. This is a societal problem, not a religious problem. It is a people problem and needs to be addressed as such. If it was caused by religion, it would be happening everywhere, not just in Scotland.

It also happens over the water in northern ireland for many of the same reasons. I don't think it is possible to deal with the situation without acknowledging that religious bigotry and ignorance plays a big part of fanning the flames and generally gives a clear line of division as to who should be supporting whom which perpetuates the us and them mentality - it would be naive to suggest that it is purely coincidental that the trouble is isolated to specific pockets in the geography or demographic.

OhNoYouDidn't

One think that struck me on this. Where are the players union on this? They should forcefully defend Neil Lennon and inform their members in no uncertain terms that if they harbour murderous thoughts about a fellow member should keep it very, very quiet

SM01

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Does anyone here actually live in Scotland now that is Irish and with Irish accent?

How have you been treated there?

I have been to Scotland about 30 times mainly Edinburgh and never came across anything sinister towards me cause im Irish..

I'm a Dub who's lived in Edinburgh for a year and I've been living in Glasgow since last September.

I never experienced and animosity or trouble in Edinburgh and generally speaking found it to be a very mellow, relaxed city. I've mates who support Hearts and they're all decent, regular guys however they did mention a small minority that were hostile, though I never witnessed it myself. I attended a few Hibs games as I lived just off Easter road and again I never saw any trouble, though (and I'm not saying this 'cause they're an easy target) there was always tension in the air whenever Rangers visited. Nothing was ever mentioned about my nationality or my accent. It was never an issue.

Glasgow is a very different city to Edinburgh. Not any worse or better, just different. It's repution as a hostile city with rampant knife crime is unfair however there is no doubting that there is a slight undercurrent there. It's not highly visible but I'm more aware and guarded walking around the city.

I attend a Uni here and I also work / train out at Southern General Hospital which is in Govan, not far from Ibrox. I've never had anything remotely bad said to me because I'm recognisably Irish and there's is a big Irish population here (particularly Northern Irish) and I've come into contact with a lot of Rangers fans. However saying that I have noticed more recently among some colleagues/students that there's an almost acceptable level of passive aggression and support for sectarianism and bigoted behaviour and it's become more noticeable in recent times.

PauloMN

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It also happens over the water in northern ireland for many of the same reasons. I don't think it is possible to deal with the situation without acknowledging that religious bigotry and ignorance plays a big part of fanning the flames and generally gives a clear line of division as to who should be supporting whom which perpetuates the us and them mentality - it would be naive to suggest that it is purely coincidental that the trouble is isolated to specific pockets in the geography or demographic.

I agree, but religious bigotry is very different to what you said before about religion being the cause. Religion is not the cause, nor are faith based schools the cause. Religion is a convenient excuse for idiots to use as a way of grouping people into a lump to hate, but that's contrary to everything that mainsteam religion in Scotland is about.

If you were to take a group of troublesome fans (and others, not just football fans) and profile the people who harbour this kind of hatred and get into trouble for sectarianism, you'll find a lot of similarities between them and I bet religion won't be a common factor. They'll be socio-economic factors, and that's what needs to be addressed here, not religion or whether there are faith-based schools or not. Not that I have any issue with secular schooling, we certainly need more of that here in Ireland anyway, but I think people have some sort of fantasy notion that having kids in secular schools rather than faith-based schools is going to magically solve the problem. It won't.

Ickle Magoo

PauloMN wrote: »

I agree, but religious bigotry is very different to what you said before about religion being the cause.

My bad, I didn't phrase that very well.

PauloMN wrote: »

Religion is not the cause, nor are faith based schools the cause. Religion is a convenient excuse for idiots to use as a way of grouping people into a lump to hate, but that's contrary to everything that mainsteam religion in Scotland is about.

I'm not so sure, one could argue that drawing clear lines between children purely on the basis of their parents faith is doing little to bring together communities and everything to divide - along religious lines.

PauloMN wrote: »

If you were to take a group of troublesome fans (and others, not just football fans) and profile the people who harbour this kind of hatred and get into trouble for sectarianism, you'll find a lot of similarities between them and I bet religion won't be a common factor. They'll be socio-economic factors, and that's what needs to be addressed here, not religion or whether there are faith-based schools or not. Not that I have any issue with secular schooling, we certainly need more of that here in Ireland anyway, but I think people have some sort of fantasy notion that having kids in secular schools rather than faith-based schools is going to magically solve the problem. It won't.

I think it's a bit of everything, tbh. Demarcation lines are drawn between those of differing religions, then it is assumed that depending on the religion specific schools will be attended thus minimising contact with those of differing beliefs and views and more than likely the assumption that a specific football team will be supported. While I think socio-economic factors are also at play, there are clearly differences between areas in scotland where all are at a socio-economic disadvantage and those with the same issue who divide their communities based on religion.

PauloMN

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

My bad, I didn't phrase that very well.



I'm not so sure, one could argue that drawing clear lines between children purely on the basis of their parents faith is doing little to bring together communities and everything to divide - along religious lines.



I think it's a bit of everything, tbh. Demarcation lines are drawn between those of differing religions, then it is assumed that depending on the religion specific schools will be attended thus minimising contact with those of differing beliefs and views and more than likely the assumption that a specific football team will be supported. While I think socio-economic factors are also at play, there are clearly differences between areas in scotland where all are at a socio-economic disadvantage and those with the same issue who divide their communities based on religion.

I see your point, but I don't think faith-based schools are anything at all to do with this. We have faith-based schools here and don't have these problems. Sectarianism is the problem, not faith-based schools, and sectarianism leads to people using faith-based schools as a cause of this problem when (imo anyway) they are far from the reason.

Lack of education is what you'll find across the board. Doing away with faith-based schools won't solve that, people will still be of different religions and bigots will still have that "label" to use to hate a group of people. Like I said before, as a start, every school in Scotland needs a good anti-sectarianism programme to instill in kids at a young age and on a regular basis. Kids don't "learn" sectarianism at school, they learn it outside of school and at home. What they can learn at school is that it is wrong.

OhNoYouDidn't

The problem with the 'schools' line is it sails very close to blaming anti-Catholic discriminiation on the existence of Catholics.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a certain social, ethnic or religious group in a city having a preferred football team. Thats how it works in most of the world.

Anti-Irish and anti-Catholic bigotry existed long before football came to Glasgow. Celtic are a result of that racism rather than a cause of it. Saying that if the teams were folded or the tribal lines (which aren't as stark as you make them out) that are alligned with the Glasgow clubs dissapeared that this bigotry would end is naive in the extreme.

Sectariansm in Belfast didn't go away when Belfast Celtic were forced out...

The_Kew_Tour

SM01 wrote: »

I'm a Dub who's lived in Edinburgh for a year and I've been living in Glasgow since last September.

I never experienced and animosity or trouble in Edinburgh and generally speaking found it to be a very mellow, relaxed city. I've mates who support Hearts and they're all decent, regular guys however they did mention a small minority that were hostile, though I never witnessed it myself. I attended a few Hibs games as I lived just off Easter road and again I never saw any trouble, though (and I'm not saying this 'cause they're an easy target) there was always tension in the air whenever Rangers visited. Nothing was ever mentioned about my nationality or my accent. It was never an issue.

Glasgow is a very different city to Edinburgh. Not any worse or better, just different. It's repution as a hostile city with rampant knife crime is unfair however there is no doubting that there is a slight undercurrent there. It's not highly visible but I'm more aware and guarded walking around the city.

I attend a Uni here and I also work / train out at Southern General Hospital which is in Govan, not far from Ibrox. I've never had anything remotely bad said to me because I'm recognisably Irish and there's is a big Irish population here (particularly Northern Irish) and I've come into contact with a lot of Rangers fans. However saying that I have noticed more recently among some colleagues/students that there's an almost acceptable level of passive aggression and support for sectarianism and bigoted behaviour and it's become more noticeable in recent times.

Yes I am Hibs supporter and have been to Glasgow and in fairness never found it as bad as people say. Agree with pretty much all you said just going by my experience over there.

aidan24326

I hope people email Clyde FC and make them aware of this.

Here's what he actually said "A hope neil lennon and his family fcukin die".

If I was chairman of the club he'd be sacked immediately. At a time when Scottish football is in the news for all the wrong reasons the last thing anyone needs is a knucklehead like this guy opening his gob while disengaging the small few brain cells that he has.

markesmith

aidan24326 wrote: »

Here's what he actually said "A hope neil lennon and his family fcukin die".

He got 12 likes for that comment on Facebook, too. There's an acceptance of view like this among his social group.

Such a hateful thing to say in such a public forum.

Ickle Magoo

PauloMN wrote: »

I see your point, but I don't think faith-based schools are anything at all to do with this. We have faith-based schools here and don't have these problems. Sectarianism is the problem, not faith-based schools, and sectarianism leads to people using faith-based schools as a cause of this problem when (imo anyway) they are far from the reason.

Lack of education is what you'll find across the board. Doing away with faith-based schools won't solve that, people will still be of different religions and bigots will still have that "label" to use to hate a group of people. Like I said before, as a start, every school in Scotland needs a good anti-sectarianism programme to instill in kids at a young age and on a regular basis. Kids don't "learn" sectarianism at school, they learn it outside of school and at home. What they can learn at school is that it is wrong.

You have faith based schools here and really, very little alternative. Splitting communities according to religion just doesn't come into it.

What kids can also learn at a multi-denominational school is that there are no differences barring personal belief and colour of a football shirt/skin/whatever. I went to a multi-denominational school and it never occurred to me to think there was any big deal or difference between religions (of which I'm none) until I was much older - I remember going to an away game at ibrox and having to ask my dad what a fenian was because it was a term I'd never heard before - in fact before moving to ireland and having to deal with the school system here, I had no reason to think about religion other than roll eyes at the sectarian chanting from a few thousand at a football match.

While sectarianism obviously isn't on the curriculum in faith schools, dividing communities and children based on nothing more than an arbitrary wish to be segregated from other religions in the community based on what? A half hr a week in class and who is on the school board? It's never going to be a healthy way of dealing with religious bigotry in a community - and goes a long way towards perpetuating it.

markesmith wrote:

Such a hateful thing to say in such a public forum.

Such a hateful thing to say anywhere - or think for that matter. Don't like the guy, fine, wish him and his family die? Him & his family die? FFS, that's seriously screw loose, stuff.

Jelle1880

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The problem with the 'schools' line is it sails very close to blaming anti-Catholic discriminiation on the existence of Catholics.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a certain social, ethnic or religious group in a city having a preferred football team. Thats how it works in most of the world.

Anti-Irish and anti-Catholic bigotry existed long before football came to Glasgow. Celtic are a result of that racism rather than a cause of it. Saying that if the teams were folded or the tribal lines (which aren't as stark as you make them out) that are alligned with the Glasgow clubs dissapeared that this bigotry would end is naive in the extreme.

Sectariansm in Belfast didn't go away when Belfast Celtic were forced out...

I don't see anything wrong with laying part of the blame with the Catholic Church (Not catholics themselves).
In the past they have openly stated that they will only use Catholic teachers and that non-Catholics need not apply (Understandable for RE lessons, but why should that matter for History, Math,... ?).

Stuff like that never helps.
In Glasgow school rivalries are also largely based on being a faith school or a non-denominational school, and it spills into adulthood when lines are drawn regarding choice for clubs.

To put it in a very simple way: Children are separated from their friends at a very young age, simply due to one fact (religion) and this continues until they are grown up.

It's not Catholic schooling in itself which causes sectarianism, but when you have a government which actively promotes this kind of stuff then it becomes part of the problem.

A Dub in Glasgo

Jelle, in Glasgow school rivalries are more terroritorial based not faith based. If every school was the same, there would still be feuding amongst kids from different schools just like any other city or town in the world.

Catholic schools manage to exist in plenty of other countries including England without being blamed for the ills of society. There is something else at play in Scotland.

Jelle1880

I don't know of any other Catholic school systems which openly discriminate against non-Catholics though.

I'm not saying it's the cause of the issue, that's something deeply rooted in Scottish society, but it definitely doesn't help.

Ickle Magoo

It's not deeply rooted in scottish society - that is the kind of sweeping generalisation the rest of the country are fed up having to listen to thanks to a handful of idiotic, ignorant bigots - the vast majority of which reside in a single corner of the country...for the rest of the 4 million or so residents, religious bigotry just doesn't exist in their lives.

Jelle1880

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's not deeply rooted in scottish society - that is the kind of sweeping generalisation the rest of the country are fed up having to listen to thanks to a handful of idiotic, ignorant bigots - the vast majority of which reside in a single corner of the country...for the rest of the 4 million or so residents, religious bigotry just doesn't exist in their lives.

So we hear, and then when Rangers or Celtic come to town it's 'Fenian this' and 'Huns or Orange Bastards that'.

Ickle Magoo

Oh for goodness sakes, like the majority of scottish people would be lining the streets when either team go visit and chanting those things. :pac:

It's as ignorant as me suggesting every irish person supports the IRA or is stock-piling arms for visiting foreign monarchs just because I've heard a few oddballs and read AH.