FIRST CAR:ELECTRIC CAR?

mkdon

hi all

where can i get a cheap one?

anywhere at all that sells them?a
n
y help appreicated

biko

http://www.greenaer.ie/revai.php
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2081804

robtri

biko wrote: »

http://www.greenaer.ie/revai.php
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2081804

is the Reva officially a car...... something in back of head tells me its offically by euopean standards not a car....


it may be cheap... but it is a death trap

bladebrew

Is the reva a g-wiz or something? i think its classed a quadracycle not a car,

mkdon

guys what a rubbish car.only benefit i can see is the parking

are there any others?how much would i save in petrol per year?how far can this bad boy go?would it make it to galway and back without charge?

Matt Simis

The Reva/G-Wizz is a quadricyle, not a car. And yes, it offers about as much protection on the road as other cycles with a false sense of security as its "car shaped". As a quadricycle it doesnt need car safety or an NCAP.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323012/Top-scientist-killed-G-Wiz-electric-car-horror-smash.html

Dr Judit Nadal, 47, died after her blue G-Wiz collided with a Skoda Octavia.

Known as Dr Nagy in the academic world, rather than by her married name, Dr Nadal was head of a research facility at Imperial College, south-west London, where she led groundbreaking work into finding solutions to a vast range of illnesses.

It is believed she was on her way home from the university when the accident happened on the A41 Hendon Way.

The safety of the ‘eco-friendly’ G-Wiz has been questioned previously.


Experts at the Transport Research Laboratory were so concerned about the Indian-made G-Wiz that they refused to risk their more sophisticated £130,000 crash test dummies – full of electronic instruments – in the test for fear of them being wrecked.

Instead, they used a cheaper, more basic variety.

mkdon wrote: »

are there any others?how much would i save in petrol per year?how far can this bad boy go?would it make it to galway and back without charge?

You need to state the starting point for an answer.. Also, space bar broken?

robtri

Matt Simis wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323012/Top-scientist-killed-G-Wiz-electric-car-horror-smash.html

says it all when they wont risk the crash test dummies in the car...

Alanstrainor

You can pretty much forget getting an electric car. Unless you have 30000 in your pocket.

Zubeneschamali

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You can pretty much forget getting an electric car. Unless you have 30000 in your pocket.

To expand this a little, there's only one real electric car on sale in Ireland: the Nissan Leaf, which is only available new and costs €29,995.

galwaytt

Alanstrainor wrote: »

You can pretty much forget getting an electric car. Unless you have 30000 in your pocket.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

To expand this a little, there's only one real electric car on sale in Ireland: the Nissan Leaf, which is only available new and costs €29,995.

...and even at €30k, it still won't get you to Galway, never mind Galway-and-back.


Try again in 10 years.

Maybe.

Roll on nuclear.

Discuss....

R.O.R

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

To expand this a little, there's only one real electric car on sale in Ireland: the Nissan Leaf, which is only available new and costs €29,995.

There are options from Mitsubishi, Citroen and someone else selling the same car with a different badge on it. Not sure if they are on sale yet, or whether they are very close to being on sale, but again, near €30k and up to 160km range.

Alanstrainor

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

To expand this a little, there's only one real electric car on sale in Ireland: the Nissan Leaf, which is only available new and costs €29,995.

What a guess. Pulled that 30,000 figure out of the air! I knew it wasn't cheap!

mondeo

IMO people would want to be barking effing mad spending 30k on an electric vehicle at this point in time where there is f all support for them... Think of the choice of diesals out there for that budget. Even in 10 years time I cannot see them having a big enough bite in the market to get any real attention.

pajo1981

Jesus, as the cost of these things fall I think they are going to become very popular.

galwaytt

pajo1981 wrote: »

Jesus, as the cost of these things fall I think they are going to become very popular.

these things = the diesels, right ?

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

...and even at €30k, it still won't get you to Galway, never mind Galway-and-back.


Try again in 10 years.

Maybe.

Roll on nuclear.

Discuss....

I am in favour of Nuclear power. However the Leaf can do Dublin to Galway. It does mean up to a 30 minute stop in the Topaz garage in Athlone to use the FCP.



I like travelling to Galway, eldest daughter really likes the aquarium there. It doesn't bother me or my family having to stop in Athlone to use one of these:



That's a picture of the FCP in Topaz in Newlands Cross garage.

R.O.R

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I am in favour of Nuclear power. However the Leaf can do Dublin to Galway. It does mean up to a 30 minute stop in the Topaz garage in Athlone to use the FCP.

Will it actually make Athlone on a full charge? I know the max distance is around 160km, but I've heard that Motorway speeds or using any electrics can shorten that range substantially.

DRSPOK

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2011/0511/1224296684444.html

Sesshoumaru

R.O.R wrote: »

Will it actually make Athlone on a full charge? I know the max distance is around 160km, but I've heard that Motorway speeds or using any electrics can shorten that range substantially.

I've done 1500 kilometers in the last few weeks in mine, a lot of it would be driving on the M4/M7 & M50. I would have no range anxiety about making Athlone from Dublin.

R.O.R

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I've done 1500 kilometers in the last few weeks in mine, a lot of it would be driving on the M4/M7 & M50. I would have no range anxiety about making Athlone from Dublin.

An Electric vehicle (not a Leaf) is supposed to be dropped in to us and I was wondering about taking it home and back (124.4km round trip - motorway most of the way), and am a bit nervous whether it would make that trip on 1 charge, or would I have to do a reduced motorway speed (and hold everyone up?).

Only option to charge at home would be an extension cord through the letterbox, but that would mean removing the plug first, putting it on again inside the house, and having to do the reverse when finished. Not exactly practicle.

Sesshoumaru

R.O.R wrote: »

An Electric vehicle (not a Leaf) is supposed to be dropped in to us and I was wondering about taking it home and back (124.4km round trip - motorway most of the way), and am a bit nervous whether it would make that trip on 1 charge, or would I have to do a reduced motorway speed (and hold everyone up?).

Only option to charge at home would be an extension cord through the letterbox, but that would mean removing the plug first, putting it on again inside the house, and having to do the reverse when finished. Not exactly practicle.

Which one? Speed is the biggest drain on the battery as wind resistance increases. Basically the slower you drive, the more range you get.

My wife did celbridge -> lucan -> portlaoise -> kildare outlet -> celbridge on one charge. That worked out at 160km, most of which was motorway.

Absurdum

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I am in favour of Nuclear power. However the Leaf can do Dublin to Galway. It does mean up to a 30 minute stop in the Topaz garage in Athlone to use the FCP.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5485/158644.gif

I like travelling to Galway, eldest daughter really likes the aquarium there. It doesn't bother me or my family having to stop in Athlone to use one of these:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/5485/158443.gif

That's a picture of the FCP in Topaz in Newlands Cross garage.

what if there's someone there before you? or two Leafs? Leccy brawl?

Sesshoumaru

Absurdum wrote: »

what if there's someone there before you? or two Leafs? Leccy brawl?

Between the earthquake/tsunami and demand from other bigger countries, I don't think anymore Leafs are coming into the country. So a brawl is unlikely

They are also the only EV that currently supports fast charging. I think I recall reading an email stating some garages will get more than one charging point as well. At the motor show in the RDS, they were certainly showing off FCP's that had two charging cables coming out of them.

Matt Simis

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

They are also the only EV that currently supports fast charging. I think I recall reading an email stating some garages will get more than one charging point as well. At the motor show in the RDS, they were certainly showing off FCP's that had two charging cables coming out of them.

So what does 30min of Fast charging get you power (% of total) wise?

johnos1984

Someone in Wicklow town has a Leaf.

I'd love to have a look at it and so would a colleague who is very eager to buy one.

***If you're here PM me, its a silver one and I spotted it two days ago. 11WW****

Sesshoumaru

Matt Simis wrote: »

So what does 30min of Fast charging get you power (% of total) wise?

0% to 80% in 30 minutes is what it officially does. What comes out of the FCP is 50 kilowatts of DC and the Leaf has a separate port to accept this. I think it would be a fair assumption to make that I won't arrive with 0% charge, so I'm hoping a 30 minute stop would result in the battery being fairly close to full. Hopefully I'll get to test this soon, I haven't had the chance to use an FCP yet. The one in Newlands Cross still has metal hoardings around it, still being fine tuned I've been told.

Graham_B18C

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

0% to 80% in 30 minutes is what it officially does. What comes out of the FCP is 50 kilowatts of DC and the Leaf has a separate port to accept this. I think it would be a fair assumption to make that I won't arrive with 0% charge, so I'm hoping a 30 minute stop would result in the battery being fairly close to full. Hopefully I'll get to test this soon, I haven't had the chance to use an FCP yet. The one in Newlands Cross still has metal hoardings around it, still being fine tuned I've been told.

Do you charge yours at home? Does it use a standard socket outlet or did you have to get a higher rated outlet installed? What kind of money does it cost to charge at home, how many kWh's does it use? And how much does it cost to get the 80% charge in the garage?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm quite curious about these!

cianof

As per the OPs question.

where can i get a cheap one?

http://www.evfinder.com/classif_ebay.htm

ctrl - f

uk

Note for importing: Only cars & motor cycles are vrt exempt. Not commercial vehicles.

I recommend avoiding lead acid based EVs. They are heavy and they have a relatively low cycle count.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_performance_as_a_function_of_cycling

With a bit of research it's possible to find a good EV at a reasonable price.

You can get an idea of what's out there from here:
http://www.evalbum.com/

You would be amazed what you can find. eg:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280673578605&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:VRI
(I wouldn't recommend buying this btw.)

I drive 1 of these. http://www.berlingo-e.co.uk/ There's a couple in Ireland already. They come up occasionally on evfinder but you need to find 1 that has been well maintained. (Batteries have to be watered every 6 months with di-ionized or distilled water).

Sesshoumaru

Graham_B18C wrote: »

Do you charge yours at home? Does it use a standard socket outlet or did you have to get a higher rated outlet installed? What kind of money does it cost to charge at home, how many kWh's does it use? And how much does it cost to get the 80% charge in the garage?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm quite curious about these!

I charge mine at home using an external 16amp charger that the ESB installed for free. http://www.esb.ie/main/ecars/index.jsp

The battery is officially 24kw/h and on night rate it costs 2 euro to charge from 0% to 100%.

ESB said it would cost around 6 euro for a fast charge in garage. However atm it is free to charge using FCP and is likely to remain free for the next year at least.

Drummerboy08

Not shilling here, but if anyone wants to actually view/drive a Leaf, just PM me and I can organise it.

Stu, if thats that Mitsi machine, I don't think that will get you home. I don't think it has a range of near 160km!

The only way to think of EV's at the minute is to compare them to plasma screens.

10 years ago they were the best of technology, wicked expensive, and not really that great.

Now, they're fairly affordable, great picture, and there's one in most households!!

The Leaf is the beginning of new technology, that's why it's expensive and not got a great range. As these cars advance they will become more affordable and alot more practical obviously.

ShadowHearth

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Not shilling here, but if anyone wants to actually view/drive a Leaf, just PM me and I can organise it.

Stu, if thats that Mitsi machine, I don't think that will get you home. I don't think it has a range of near 160km!

The only way to think of EV's at the minute is to compare them to plasma screens.

10 years ago they were the best of technology, wicked expensive, and not really that great.

Now, they're fairly affordable, great picture, and there's one in most households!!

The Leaf is the beginning of new technology, that's why it's expensive and not got a great range. As these cars advance they will become more affordable and alot more practical obviously.

I am a pure petrolhead which loves gaz guzzlers. 50 quid blown in 15 mins of fun was always a good thing in my head.

I have to say I am really getting interested in electric cars like leaf. Not Crapy hybrids and Prius, but these proper full electric cars.

So if we getting 150ish real millage in these now, I can only imagine what we will have on 5 years.

If they will make a car with 300km proper range, then I would not see any problem getting one.

Having a daily/work electric car, then have some beast for weekends would be just pure win situation.

Unfortunately it will be awoke until we get these cheaper second hand

galwaytt

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

... However the Leaf can do Dublin to Galway. It does mean up to a 30 minute stop in the Topaz garage in Athlone to use the FCP.

I like travelling to Galway, eldest daughter really likes the aquarium there. It doesn't bother me or my family having to stop in Athlone to use one of these:
.

...as I said: it won't go Dublin-Galway, let alone Dublin-Galway-Dublin on one charge. Which means now adding a minimum of 1 hours travelling each way. And that's assuming there isn't someone else queuing to use the one charger...........

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I've done 1500 kilometers in the last few weeks in mine, a lot of it would be driving on the M4/M7 & M50. I would have no range anxiety about making Athlone from Dublin.

Autocar did a test on it recently in 'real world' conditions and it completely drained the battery and rolled to a halt in 74miles.

Add in winter temps, heater, headlights (it get's dark at 16:00 in winter around here remember) and you can knock off another bunch of miles.

Fine for short-hop commuting.

For everything else, there's Mastercard petrol.

Don't get me wrong: it's coming, it's just not here yet. I like the idea of one for droning around, and something nice for zooming.

cianof

it won't go Dublin-Galway, let alone Dublin-Galway-Dublin on one charge.

Your missing the point mate. It's not designed for that. If you want to go from Dublin-Galway on regular basis stick with a fossil fuel car.

It's like a battery drill vs a plug in drill. For some jobs 1 is better for other jobs the other 1 is better.

Sesshoumaru

galwaytt wrote: »

...as I said: it won't go Dublin-Galway, let alone Dublin-Galway-Dublin on one charge. Which means now adding a minimum of 1 hours travelling each way. And that's assuming there isn't someone else queuing to use the one charger...........

You didn't say one charge before. For me that disadvantage is outweighed by the advantages I get from an EV. You are also incorrectly assuming all garages will have only one charger and considering the scarcity of vehicles that can use FCP's (only the Leaf) I'm not too worried about it. If it becomes an issue, then it's something we'll add to our list to press the ESB for.

Autocar did a test on it recently in 'real world' conditions and it completely drained the battery and rolled to a halt in 74miles.

Add in winter temps, heater, headlights (it get's dark at 16:00 in winter around here remember) and you can knock off another bunch of miles.

Fine for short-hop commuting.

For everything else, there's Mastercard petrol.

Don't get me wrong: it's coming, it's just not here yet. I like the idea of one for droning around, and something nice for zooming.

Autocar had the Leaf for a day at most. I've had it long enough to drive it for around 1.5k kilometres. I've watched the review and I'm sure to someone who isn't familiar with the Leaf it looks grands and fair. But I'm telling you they didn't depict reality very well. They clearly didn't understand how the Leaf calculates range and they did not understand climate control either and how the range estimation is affected by it.

Before I go on I took this picture of the dash for you. Just so you can see how the car does give you a lot of real time information on energy usage. Including the motor, climate control and other, which is wipers and lights etc.



So anyway range is calculated based on how you drive. But the data is not reset to zero every day. The car keeps a record of how you drive over a period of days/weeks/months. The more you drive it, the more accurate the range estimation becomes. So when Autocar turned on their car and it said 120 mile range, that was based on how it had been driven up to that point... by someone else. Then the reviewer gets in and even in an urban setting the range is dropping off fast, why? because he hasn't driven the car before and simply hasn't had the time to develop the correct technique for efficient EV driving.

My wife can't get the same range I do. We went to a restaurant in Saggart and she drove over. On the way back I drove home and when we got home, the range estimation was higher than we had left Saggart. She's gotten better at driving it, but I still have a slight edge over her. The Autocar reviewer would have done better had he done the same journey a couple of times over a few days.

Another problem was that the car was not fully charged when they left, unless the camera shots had some significant time differential between them? I can't tell that of course, but I can see the 3 lights on the dash, 2 are on steady and the last one is blinking which means it's more than 66% charged, but less than 100% charged. An extra few % could have meant a few more miles.

Last major issue I had with the review is the point where he turns on the climate control and the camera shot shows the immediate drop in range estimation. So anyway I've had the car longer than Autocar, by a good bit. What I've noticed is that when you turn on climate control the car will increase or decrease the temperature in the cabin to whatever you have it set to. When you turn it on it will immediately start using around 1.5kw of energy on most days and how that affects range estimation is as follows. The car will calculate your range based on climate control indefinitely using that amount of power until your battery is completely discharged. But in reality climate control does not continue to use high level of energies indefinitely, it's not that dumb. After a few minutes it will drop significantly and usually it will go down to next to nothing in energy usage once the car is around the temperature you requested. What I've noticed then is that the car starts increasing your estimated range. So you turn on climate control and if you have a full charge it might subtract 20 to 25km from your range. 5 minutes later it has added back on 10 to 15km to your range.

It wasn't a bad review, but I felt the reviewer lacked a certain amount of knowledge about the car, mostly relating to how calculations were done.

Matt Simis

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Having a daily/work electric car, then have some beast for weekends would be just pure win situation.

Unfortunately it will be awoke until we get these cheaper second hand

Thats not pure win at all, thats just a compromise purely driven by our artifically high fuel prices. Pure Win would be paying US fuel prices from last year (and even now not far off) driving something awesome and not giving a crap.

I personally would currently rather a high power 40mpg RWD turbo diesel and a weekend toy in our current "climate". Not to sound like a total party pooper, but all this focus on improving range anxiety and fuel costs has shifted the focus away from the fact that current EVs seem like the dullest things in the world to drive. I dont want to hypermile or bunny hop charging points, I dont want to effectively have no gears, no engine noise and an engine performance that displays paper-theory perfect linearity (push pedel to spin motor decimally faster). It sounds like motoring hell to me.

Even the Tesla started to pick up luke warm feelings after the wow factor passed.

johnos1984

Matt Simis wrote: »

Thats not pure win at all, thats just a compromise purely driven by our artifically high fuel prices. Pure Win would be paying US fuel prices from last year (and even now not far off) driving something awesome and not giving a crap.

I personally would currently rather a high power 40mpg RWD turbo diesel and a weekend toy in our current "climate". Not to sound like a total party pooper, but all this focus on improving range anxiety and fuel costs has shifted the focus away from the fact that current EVs seem like the dullest things in the world to drive. I dont want to hypermile or bunny hop charging points, I dont want to effectively have no gears, no engine noise and an engine performance that displays paper-theory perfect linearity (push pedel to spin motor decimally faster). It sounds like motoring hell to me.

Even the Tesla started to pick up luke warm feelings after the wow factor passed.

Do what I have done.


Two cheap cars, a 2006 Passat and a 1977 Marina for a laugh at weekends.

A good compromise even though I still make Polar bears cry

cianof

I personally would currently rather a high power 40mpg RWD turbo diesel and a weekend toy in our current "climate".

There's nothing wrong with that. You'll pay a bit more for that experience at the moment. Maybe if more people drive EVs prices at the pumps will go down.

What EVs have you driven?

Matt Simis

Zero.. obviously! I'm not remotely interested in driving current EVs no more wanting to drive a Yaris or god forbid a Prius. I was a passenger in Prius a few times.

Their appeal is cheapness and that's at odds with my interests.

cianof

@Matt Simis

You haven't driven an EV! How can you say what they are like to drive then?

I've driven a couple of EVs. They're fun. Breaking with regen is great. I miss it when I go back to driving the diesel. One isn't better than the other, just different.

Anyway, it take's all types. At least now there's another choice for motoring. When the effects of peak oil really kick in you might be glad of it.

Sesshoumaru

Matt Simis wrote: »

Zero.. obviously! I'm not remotely interested in driving current EVs no more wanting to drive a Yaris or god forbid a Prius. I was a passenger in Prius a few times.

Their appeal is cheapness and that's at odds with my interests.

They clearly have no appeal to you or "cheapness" is the only appeal for you But that isn't what appeals to me about the Nissan Leaf. Just thought I'd point that out, in case anyone thought that is the reason I or anyone else had bought one for. EV's are also no threat to the continued production of ICE performance cars. Horses after all didn't die out when the ICE powered automobile was invented. They were just repurposed for recreational use.

I also hope you're not comparing the Leaf to a Prius or Yaris? In fairness if you haven't tried all three, then you're not in a position to make a comparison.

unkel

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

The only way to think of EV's at the minute is to compare them to plasma screens.

10 years ago they were the best of technology, wicked expensive, and not really that great.

Great comparison! I'll add to that:

And now (just 10 years later) plasma screens are obsolete because they've been overtaken by new technologie (LCD / LED). Not that there are many still around because a plasma screen only has a lifespan of about 7-10 years. Just like batteries in electric cars

PADRAIC.M

Don't forget the leaf is only here because Toyota sold Nissan the first gen prius technology, and there is plenty of more full ev on the way in the next 18 months

n97 mini

galwaytt wrote: »

...as I said: it won't go Dublin-Galway, let alone Dublin-Galway-Dublin on one charge.

A lot of people aren't arsed with Galway. It's grand once a year for a weekend and the bus or train works fine for that.

Sesshoumaru

unkel wrote: »

Great comparison! I'll add to that:

And now (just 10 years later) plasma screens are obsolete because they've been overtaken by new technologie (LCD / LED). Not that there are many still around because a plasma screen only has a lifespan of about 7-10 years. Just like batteries in electric cars

The analogy breaks down a little if you consider the electric motor has been around even longer than ICE and the electric motor doesn't appear to have any competitor technology on the horizon. Also the batteries in the Leaf only lose about 20% capacity after 10 years, so they should have plenty of life left after 10 years.

unkel

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

The analogy breaks down a little if you consider the electric motor has been around even longer than ICE and the electric motor doesn't appear to have any competitor technology on the horizon.

There's nothing wrong with the electric motor. The problem is the way it is being fed in current generation EVs.

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

the batteries in the Leaf only lose about 20% capacity after 10 years, so they should have plenty of life left after 10 years.

I would bet that will prove to be so optimistic it can only be called telling porkies

Sesshoumaru

unkel wrote: »

I would bet that will prove to be so optimistic it can only be called telling porkies

But the batteries aren't some brand spanking new technology that no one has ever heard of before Nearly every piece of mobile technology uses lithium ion battery technology. It's a tried and tested technology, around for years! The battery packs in the Leaf are built by NEC which is a technology company, so if they say 80% capacity after 10 years, why shouldn't I believe them?

cianof

I would say these batteries will be good for 10 years at least.

This is a great site on all things battery.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/whats_the_best_battery

The Leaf's battery warranty is for eight years or 160000 kilometres (100000 mi)

unkel

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Nearly every piece of mobile technology uses lithium ion battery technology. It's a tried and tested technology, around for years!

And how long does the average laptop battery last? The average phone battery?

cianof wrote: »

The Leaf's battery warranty is for eight years or 160000 kilometres (100000 mi)

I wasn't aware of that. Well at least that is encouraging.

Sesshoumaru

unkel wrote: »

And how long does the average laptop battery last? The average phone battery?

Why over engineer a battery for a laptop? A laptop has a more limited life expectancy compared to a car. I personally don't want to use an 8 year old laptop. But I have no problem with a reasonably well maintained 8 year old car. I only meant the technology is well understood. The batteries in the Leaf rarely get fully charged as well, not the same type of charging cycles compared to laptops and phones. Anyways I have enough cheerleading for one day

Matt Simis

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I also hope you're not comparing the Leaf to a Prius or Yaris? In fairness if you haven't tried all three, then you're not in a position to make a comparison.

Ive driven Fiestas and Polos etc, I know what small frugal motoring is like. EVs, like the Leaf, fit into the frugal motoring category do they not? They certainly arent sold on their performance, luxury or driving dynamics. I would like to drive one just to make a more educated critique.

cianof wrote:

@Matt Simis
You haven't driven an EV! How can you say what they are like to drive then?
I've driven a couple of EVs. They're fun. Breaking with regen is great. I miss it when I go back to driving the diesel. One isn't better than the other, just different.

Im making an educated guess. Im actually quite an alternative energy fan, but I also actually like driving overpowered, big cars. Im not the target market for EVs.

Not to be total dick (ok I am a bit), but I think your standards are a bit low. Have you two driven a fast V8, how does driving an EV compare in the funness stakes? Can you visualise Vanishing Point, Bullet or Supernatural featuring EVs as their centerpieces? No, neither can I.. though Vanishing point would be lot shorter movie as he would have well ran out of juice before hitting that barrier.
I wouldnt doubt they make a decent showing vs a low end diesel, thats not hard.. but EVs to me are a necessary evil of our times, "fun" is way down the list on their design criteria (with the marmitey Tesla being the exception). If/when we have alternative fuel source to Oil they will be limited to intra-Urban "commuting" where I think they excel.

n97 mini

Matt Simis wrote: »

Not to be total dick (ok I am a bit), but I think your standards are a bit low. Have you two driven a fast V8,

V8's are great, but with petrol averaging €1.55 a litre and heading in one direction only, the Leaf makes a lot of sense for going to work, Lidl, dropping the kids to football or whatever. You know, stuff that's not really fun, but part of normal life. As a daily driver the V8 is becoming less and less affordable.