Man United planning to field reserve side against Blackpool

super_furry

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/10/manchester-united-reserve-side-blackpool

Aside from the irony - it was Blackpool who were fined for fielding a weakened team against Aston Villa earlier in the year - there are serious implications in the relegation fight. The fact that there's a cosy relationship between Holloway and Ferguson where the United boss is letting his counterpart know that he's going to put out a weak side, leaves them both open to all sorts of accusations.

While I personally feel that it should be up to the manager to field any side he deems fit to put on the jersey, I still fully expect the FA to fine Ferguson and United.

HalloweenJack

As long as the FA fine him, it's a non-story.

However, it SHOULD be up to the manager to pick whatever side he wants. As Ferguson said in that article, the manager has to put his team first.

super_furry

Without question. The part that strikes me as dodgy is the fact that Ferguson's flagging this up weeks before the match and that he's letting Holloway know about it in private conversation.

super_furry

super_furry wrote: »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/10/manchester-united-reserve-side-blackpool

Aside from the irony - it was Blackpool who were fined for fielding a weakened team against Aston Villa earlier in the year - there are serious implications in the relegation fight. The fact that there's a cosy relationship between Holloway and Ferguson where the United boss is letting his counterpart know that he's going to put out a weak side, leaves them both open to all sorts of accusations.

While I personally feel that it should be up to the manager to field any side he deems fit to put on the jersey, I still fully expect the FA to fine Ferguson and United.

fielded a 'weakened' team against Schalke too...don't see UEFA complaining. If United win 5-0 what will they do?

Dont be at yourself

FA have opened a can of worms by fining Wolves and Blackpool, but you have to wonder what United are doing openly announcing their intentions.

The rule is a bit a joke. Surely any of the 25 registered squad players are good enough to play in the league. And if United have got themselves into a position to rest players, they should be able to.

Blackpool's rivals won't be relegated on account of Blackpool beating a weakened United team, it will be because of performances over the 38 games that they themselves play.

Paully D

They'll be using players that are part of the 25 man squad that had to be named at the beginning of the season and then again in January, or U-21 players who don't have to be registered.

If a manager is only allowed to pick his strongest 11 players available to him regardless of more important games coming up then what's the point in the FA and Premier League agreeing that 25 man squads should be named and U-21 players don't have to be registered?

Manchester United should be allowed to pick any side they want at any time they want as long as they stick to the squad regulations, as should any other team.

greendom

Man Us second team should be more than good enough to beat Blackpool tbh.

Le King

What's the point in a 25 man squad if you can't use it?

I'm sure you'll here from people to dock points for this.

eugeneious

Utd have registered there 25 man squad so they should be able to play anyone registered or anyone u-21. The FA really are beyond a joke, they fined Blackpool and Wolves yet when Utd played a weakened side vs Hull a couple of years ago they ignored it.

bohsman

Surely all teams fielding weakened sides should be getting physio reports announcing that the rested players are not 100% match fit.

Brian017

eugeneious wrote: »

Utd have registered there 25 man squad so they should be able to play anyone registered or anyone u-21. The FA really are beyond a joke, they fined Blackpool and Wolves yet when Utd played a weakened side vs Hull a couple of years ago they ignored it.

Because they still won

ColmDawson

As was mentioned in the Football Weekly podcast, a 'weakened' United side might well include the league's leading goal scorer, so how weakened would it really be?

CSF

eugeneious wrote: »

Utd have registered there 25 man squad so they should be able to play anyone registered or anyone u-21. The FA really are beyond a joke, they fined Blackpool and Wolves yet when Utd played a weakened side vs Hull a couple of years ago they ignored it.

It'd be pretty hard for them to do anything where the team has won the game. If United beat Blackpool we may see the same (although given the precedents now I wouldn't bank on it), if they do not, expect punishment.

super_furry

Liam O wrote: »

fielded a 'weakened' team against Schalke too...don't see UEFA complaining. If United win 5-0 what will they do?

Well going by their own precedent, they should fine them £25,000 and warn them as to their future behaviour. Absolutely daft, but the FA make the rules.

TonyD79

Apart from the top six sides I would be pretty confident a united "reserve side" would beat all the other sides at Old Trafford especially since its the last game of the season. They were very unlucky to lose against West Ham a few years back in a simalar scenerio.

Dave!

We gonna go through this every fvcking year?

Each team should look after their own interests and field a team appropriate to the squad they have and the competitions they're involved in.

United aren't responsible for any teams being relegated. The teams will have had 37 previous games to get out of the relegation zone.

Let managers worry about their own teams.

CSF

super_furry wrote: »

Well going by their own precedent, they should fine them £25,000 and warn them as to their future behaviour. Absolutely daft, but the FA make the rules.

The FA can't fine United for what they do in UEFA competitions. To the best of my knowledge UEFA don't fine teams for such behaviour.

super_furry

Not really talking about the Schalke thing there, more if they beat Blackpool 5-0. The FA have set an absolutely idiotic precedent, even if United win, they have to met out the same response as they did with Blackpool.

kippy

super_furry wrote: »

While I personally feel that it should be up to the manager to field any side he deems fit to put on the jersey, I still fully expect the FA to fine Ferguson and United.

Lets get this straight once and for all, there is no way the FA can fine anyone unless the manager has himself directly admitted to fielding a team with that is weaker than the best team he could have fielded - akin to throwing the game - the past fines in this area to McCarthy and Holloway.
Also Man United are a top 4 club - they dont get fines for this sort of thing.....


Also Also, the whole thing is c0ck. "Weakened" teams me bollix.

flahavaj

Non-story really, I'd be confident our second 11 could beat Blackpool anyway tbh. I remember Liverpool did the same before the CL final a few years back, and quite rightly so. No point in taking silly risks with players' fitness ahead of such a massive game.

_blank_

flahavaj wrote: »

Non-story really, I'd be confident our second 11 could beat Blackpool anyway tbh. I remember Liverpool did the same before the CL final a few years back, and quite rightly so. No point in taking silly risks with players' fitness ahead of such a massive game.

Especially with the antics of Charlie Adams last weekend

#15

bohsman wrote: »

Surely all teams fielding weakened sides should be getting physio reports announcing that the rested players are not 100% match fit.

Wouldn't that mean the FA deciding who the best 11 are at each club?

Or the clubs having to submit a 'starting 11' list at the beginning of each season?

Grayditch

Surely if United win it, they can't say diddley. How could they argue it wasn't a tactical judgement?

flahavaj

Grayditch wrote: »

Surely if United win it, they can't say diddley. How could they argue it wasn't a tactical judgement?

The manager just has to say nothing really.

I'd be confident the team that started vs Schalke could win the game.

kippy

Grayditch wrote: »

How could they argue it wasn't a tactical judgement?

They can't unless the manager openly admits to intentionally fielding a team weaker than that which is available to him......then the manager is in trouble.

Mikeyt086

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTT_l88hxsY

/Blackpool.

d22ontour

It's a story from the Guardian with no source, surprise surprise... :rolleyes:

Unless Fergie repeats what McCarthy and Holloway said then it's a non-issue whatever team is picked.Any manager should be able to pick whatever team he so chooses to do regardless.

homerjay2005

assuming we win the league next saturday of course.....i cant see fergie putting out a 2nd string team, if we dont get the point on saturday.....this is all hearsay really but united and any team for that matter, should put out what team they want.......


If this was to happen, i would expect something like -

PIG
Brown Evans Smalling O Shea
Obertan gibson Ando Nani
Berba Owen

that team could still beat Blackpool

eagle eye

As long as they get fined like Blackpool and Wolves I have no problem with it. If they don't get fined then there is a very big problem.

Its harsh on the other teams down in the relegation dogfight in fairness and I can understand their ire at something like this. How can it be fair for all of them that have played a full strength United team to lose out by a point or two on survival if Blackpool do beat a very weakened United side?

flahavaj

eagle eye wrote: »

As long as they get fined like Blackpool and Wolves I have no problem with it. If they don't get fined then there is a very big problem.

Its harsh on the other teams down in the relegation dogfight in fairness and I can understand their ire at something like this. How can it be fair for all of them that have played a full strength United team to lose out by a point or two on survival if Blackpool do beat a very weakened United side?

Its up to your lot to beat them then on Saturday and force Fergie to play a strong team on the last day then.:pac:

kippy

eagle eye wrote: »

As long as they get fined like Blackpool and Wolves I have no problem with it. If they don't get fined then there is a very big problem.

Its harsh on the other teams down in the relegation dogfight in fairness and I can understand their ire at something like this. How can it be fair for all of them that have played a full strength United team to lose out by a point or two on survival if Blackpool do beat a very weakened United side?

Have you read ANY of my posts on this thread, the one about Blackpool, or the one about wolves in the past 12 months?
If you had you'd realise that theres a reason why wolves and blackpool got fined while other teams, who do this almost all the time (on paper) get away with it.........

Dave!

eagle eye wrote: »

As long as they get fined like Blackpool and Wolves I have no problem with it. If they don't get fined then there is a very big problem.

Its harsh on the other teams down in the relegation dogfight in fairness and I can understand their ire at something like this. How can it be fair for all of them that have played a full strength United team to lose out by a point or two on survival if Blackpool do beat a very weakened United side?

It's fair because everyone plays the same number of games and so has the same opportunities to get out of the relegation zone. If a team is still in there with 1 game to go, then that's because they didn't do enough during the season. Simple.

And not everyone played a full strength United team during the season either. The squad was fully used, before other important Champions League and cup games for example. Nobody kicked up a fuss about it then. Do those games not count? Is it only at the end of the season that we have to start scrutinising team selection?

Points total is cumulative over the season, just cos we're getting to crunch time doesn't mean that the games get you more points.

limpdd

eagle eye wrote: »

As long as they get fined like Blackpool and Wolves I have no problem with it. If they don't get fined then there is a very big problem.

Its harsh on the other teams down in the relegation dogfight in fairness and I can understand their ire at something like this. How can it be fair for all of them that have played a full strength United team to lose out by a point or two on survival if Blackpool do beat a very weakened United side?

Utd (and the other top 4 sides) have played so called "weakened teams" earlier in the season too should we go back and rejig the table discounting all these games, plus the one's with bad ref decisions. Just cause it might happen on the last day doesn't make it any different.

Grayditch

It might be slightly unfair to Birmingham or Wigan or whatever, who had to play full strength United squads when United needed the points. If it ends in a draw or Blackpool win, that is, and one of those teams is relegated. I doesn't really matter, I'd say United have it in the bag. The youngsters will want to have their fun.

Fuhrer

Any players named will realistically being trying to impress for a place in the Champions League final, so should up their game accordingly

eagle eye

flahavaj wrote: »

Its up to your lot to beat them then on Saturday and force Fergie to play a strong team on the last day then.:pac:

There is not a hope in hell of that under our current manager. Did you not see that thread I started ranking managers? You can see what I think of him there if you have a look.

LuckyGent88

the team we put out will still be more than good enough to beat Blackpool. Hope we dont loose our unbeaten home record but if it means Blackpool and Holloway stay up i dont mind 2 much if we loose and Blackburn/West Ham go down with that Blackpool result.

eagle eye

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

the team we put out will still be more than good enough to beat Blackpool. Hope we dont loose our unbeaten home record but if it means Blackpool and Holloway stay up i dont mind 2 much if we loose and Blackburn/West Ham go down with that Blackpool result.

Blackburn won't be going down. Came close but there are too many sides below us now even though we only have 39 points and likely remain on that total. We have a better goal difference than most of them which is like half a point.

Kiwi_knock

It could come to a stage that teams are staying up on goal difference and Blackpool could stay up by only being narrowly beaten by Man Utd. Could be a problem if that situations happens.

Do not agree at all with fining managers though, they should be free to pick any player that is able to play for them.

Bertser

Such a stupid and discriminative rule, you choose a 25 man squad, all of them are classed as good enough to play.

No they shouldn't be fined.

But neither should Wolves have been.

kippy

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Do not agree at all with fining managers though, they should be free to pick any player that is able to play for them.

They are - they get fined because of what they admit to, giving the FA no choice but to fine them. I am not sure why it is proving so difficult for people to see why some teams get fined and some dont......
Looks like the FA are going to remove the rule that these clubs are getting fined under anywa.

Helix

its a nonsense rule to begin with. next the fa will make clubs name their first choice in every position, as well as listing positions players can cover in, and the teams will automatically be picked based on whos fit and who isnt

jaykay74

If this was to happen, i would expect something like -

PIG
Brown Evans Smalling O Shea
Obertan gibson Ando Nani
Berba Owen

that team could still beat Blackpool

If it was the team which is suggested above we are not talking about a bunch of kids who haven't played much in the EPl this year. League appearances below. Can the PL say, no you must play Raf da Silva (15 games so far) ahead of Brown (7 games). You have to play Valencia (9 games) ahead of Obertan (7 games).

PIG (4 games)
Brown (7 games) Evans (11 games) Smalling (15 games) O Shea (20 games)
Obertan (7 games) Gibson (12 games) Ando (17 games) Nani (31 games)
Berba (30 games) Owen (10 games)

Games played stats taken from :

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Players/0,,12306,00.html

If we are talking Josh King, Ravel Morrison (if he is not in jail!), Pogba etc then it is easier to claim it is weakened.

PHB

It's a silly rule that ignores the fact that there are other competitions. United if they have won the league should put out any team Fergie wants and flatly ignore the fine.

kippy

PHB wrote: »

It's a silly rule that ignores the fact that there are other competitions. United if they have won the league should put out any team Fergie wants and flatly ignore the fine.

They wont get fined unless Fergie blatantly acknowledges he put out a weakened team........

ShooterSF

kippy wrote: »

They wont get fined unless Fergie blatantly acknowledges he put out a weakened team........

He should do that too! FA charges seem to drive the team to play better football

Mitch Connor

The kids that a lot of United fans would like to see (Morrison, Pogba, Tunnicliffe) won't be involved anyway, as they have a game in the FA Youth Cup the following day. Good chance the reserve team players (Obertan, Norwood, King etc) won't play (or at least start) either as they have a game on the Friday as far as I know (LSC game vs Blackburn)

So, if we do play a weakened team, it will be senior squad players in all likelihood.

The team listed a few posts above would be very likely.

Also, I don't think there should be fear of a fine. I said the same re. Wolves and Blackpool - especially in Blackpools case as they used played named in their 25 man squad.

I would say, however, that I would not be happy if United were to lose (with a weakened side) and Blackpool stayed up as a result. United should give the other teams in the relegation fight as much of a chance as possible.

spiralism

we weren't fined when we fielded a weakened side against hull two years ago.... we won that day though. stupid rule this, i wonder what olly has to say about this?

Mitch Connor

Anotehr point Fergie made (may have been mentioned) is that if you do play your first choice 11, with nothing on the line and a champions league final around the corner - do you reckon they are going to try all that hard? Better chance of a weakened side actually giving it their all and not treating it as basically a training game.

flahavaj

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Anotehr point Fergie made (may have been mentioned) is that if you do play your first choice 11, with nothing on the line and a champions league final around the corner - do you reckon they are going to try all that hard? Better chance of a weakened side actually giving it their all and not treating it as basically a training game.

Exactly, as we noted in our debate a few days ago, there would appear to be sever competitio for a place on teh bench at Wembley. If I was a player like say Fabio, Brown, Evans or Ando, I'd be prepared to run my balls off to impress given the chance.