Communion

Tim Robbins

I appreciate this is been done before but so has nearly every other topic posted here :-)

What are your opinions of all those people (we all know at least ten) who never go to mass, haven't a clue about any religion let alone the one they tick in the census but then slap it up big time for the communion and almost expect you to give it a "oh wow" when they tell you about it?

Doc_Savage

i work in a restaurant and see this at this time every year, it sickens me, families coming in with their kids dressed up like brides and grooms!

if only i'd known what i do now back then! i wouldn't have gone along with it!

i'd really like to have a proper discussion with the parents and kids and actually quiz them about what they just committed to the church!

Turtwig

Ahh the youngsters first rite of cannibalism, it's such a special time of the year worthy of celebration.

MagicMarker

Lock the doors and board up them windows before the greedy bastards come knocking with their hands held out.

liamw

Social conformity.

Bloody Nipples

I doubt they think too much about it. It's just one upping the other mammies.

Dades

Haven't any experience of little brides and grooms of Christ being paraded at me - yet.

I foresee some pointed questions directed towards the parents, though, before the tithes are handed over.

Galvasean

Tim Robbins wrote: »

What are your opinions of all those people (we all know at least ten) who never go to mass, haven't a clue about any religion let alone the one they tick in the census but then slap it up big time for the communion and almost expect you to give it a "oh wow" when they tell you about it?

Giving a corrupt religion a disproportionate amount of power despite not adhering to any of it's central bullsh!t teachings out of some weird combination of tradition and conformity..

Tim Robbins

Galvasean wrote: »

Giving a corrupt religion a disproportionate amount of power despite not adhering to any of it's central bullsh!t teachings out of some weird combination of tradition and conformity..

Just wondering if the atheists who had to do Church weddings and / or baptise their kids who will probably have to play the Communion game as well think?

Which is more head recking:

A grin and bear (take a hit for the team) for your Church Wedding, Kids Baptism or Communion?

I think Communion would be where my patient would run out.

Galvasean

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Just wondering if the atheists who had to do Church weddings and / or baptise their kids who will probably have to play the Communion game as well think?

Which is more head recking:

A grin and bear (take a hit for the team) for your Church Wedding, Kids Baptism or Communion?

I think Communion would be where my patient would run out.

Hmmm, with the baptism you could argue that you were doing it so the kid had a better chance of getting into a good school. Church wedding I guess if she that must be obeyed has her heart set on a big fancy church it might be cruel to not take the hit. Communions sit less easy with me.

robindch

Doc_Savage wrote: »

i work in a restaurant and see this at this time every year [..,]

What are the tips like?

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Just wondering if the atheists who had to do Church weddings and / or baptise their kids who will probably have to play the Communion game as well think?

Should have agreed this up front with the missus:

Lookit, I'll do yiz baptism + a church weddin', bu' after dat, de kidz is staying away from doze lot...?

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote: »

Should have agreed this up front with the missus:

Lookit, I'll do yiz baptism + a church weddin', bu' after dat, de kidz is staying away from doze lot...?

That's true. It should be agreed up front. But just wondering how atheists who have to do for their kids feel about it, vis a vi the other rituals? Is it more or less of a head recker?

Personally, I think it would be harder.

I've a few friends with older kids who tell me things like they are off to a communion party. Each to their own but I can't help cringing.

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

It should be agreed up front.

It's never to late to make a deal.

In many families, it seems that wifies don't allow hubbies to talk openly about their views on religion. If that's the case with you, then why not trade your wife's permission for you to discuss religion openly for your permission for the kids to take part in whatever's the next religious knees-up? Or some other deal? There's plenty of options, I'm sure.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Is it more or less of a head recker?

S'pose it must be.

The missus and I discussed all this up front and, thankfully, we agreed 100%, so the discussion was quick and easy -- no priests or religion within about 1,000 miles of snowflake unless at least one of us was there to help out with any of the various liberties that would almost certainly be taken.(*)

(*) The missus grew up, you see, in Russia under communism and recognized a similarly jumped-up load of horseshit when she saw it.

Obni

I wouldn't too hung up about it.

Atheist since my teenage years.
Got married to a catholic in church.
Kids were baptized, communionized (?), and confirmed.
Both teenage kids are now atheist.
Well, more post-theist than atheist, in that they consider god as irrelevant and obsolete.
To them, god was a childhood thing to be put aside with santa and pokemon.
In fact they are better off than the kids of some of my contemporaries, raised with a chip on their shoulder about the church.

For atheists of my age (mid 40's), brought up by catholics in a very catholic country, god is like an ex-wife after an acrimonious divorce. No longer part of my life, yet still a source of stress and aggravition when my mind wanders that way.
I envy my kids' lack of interest in religion.

Lucyloo1

My son is in 2nd class this year and is one of only 3 in his class (of 25) not doing Communion.. it's tough going for him, not conforming with what all of his friends are doing, but he understands that we have our reasons. I haven't explained it to him, but I couldn't tolerate my children having anything to do with an organisation that has protected and facilitated child abusers. It disappoints me hugely that many other parents aren't prepared to think that through and just want to go with the flow.. most of them will even admit that! I'd have more respect for them if they felt strongly about being part of the church for whatever reason, but most of them are just too lazy or spineless to break away from the herd.

ElleEm

Lucyloo1 wrote: »

My son is in 2nd class this year and is one of only 3 in his class (of 25) not doing Communion.. it's tough going for him, not conforming with what all of his friends are doing, .

It may seem tough now, but he'll survive it- I did! I was one of two in a class of 31 not making communion/ conformation.

It's the conforming to "tradition" without asking questions that bothers me. I think people should question things they do, and should encourage that in their children.

bigred100

It was a nice little money maker for me, same with the confirmation. Probably shouldn't have been confirmed, even at 12 in 2002 I didn't see the point of the church and the likes, but you just kinda do what you're told.

vicwatson

if only i'd known what i do now back then! i wouldn't have gone along with it!

+1

My child will not be making their communion as we don't agree children aged 7/8 have sin to offer up - plus so many other reasons, many as valid as not having sin to offer up. We are not practicing Catholic and infact we don't deem ourselves catholic anymore, this was forced upon us as children and had we known then what we know now I'd have rejected the catholic church a lot earlier. My views have changed dramatically in the last 5 years. For years I didn't agree with the rules of the catholic church and their views on things but somehow just stayed in there. I finally had the courage of my convictions and am no longer a catholic.

We plan on going away on holidays for the time surrounding the communion. We've explained that the reason why my child isn't making communion is because we don't go to mass. She gets it and doesn't seem to be phased by it at all.

There certainly won't be any lasting mental damage I don't think !!

Lucyloo1

ElleEm wrote: »

It may seem tough now, but he'll survive it- I did! I was one of two in a class of 31 not making communion/ conformation.

Thanks.. yeah, I think it's a valuable lesson for him, one I'd prefer him to have than for him to think that he should do what everyone else is doing.

And, anyway, the thought of him (or any eight year old) 'confessing' to a Priest.. how twisted is that.

robindch

Lucyloo1 wrote: »

And, anyway, the thought of him (or any eight year old) 'confessing' to a Priest.. how twisted is that.

About as bad as a priest coming into my four-year old's class last year and handing out sweeties to the kids (as the headmistress told me, with a proud grin on her face).

It was like recent history didn't exist.

Tim Robbins

robindch wrote: »

It's never to late to make a deal.

In many families, it seems that wifies don't allow hubbies to talk openly about their views on religion. If that's the case with you, then why not trade your wife's permission for you to discuss religion openly for your permission for the kids to take part in whatever's the next religious knees-up? Or some other deal? There's plenty of options, I'm sure.S'pose it must be.

I think you misread me there Robin. We made those agreements before getting marriage. My wife is a mild Church goer and isn't too pushed on the baptism thing in the same way as I wouldn't be pushed on a humanist ceremony even though I am a supporter of that life stance and that society.

At the moment my missus brings our kid to the Church when she goes mainly for logistical reasons. Kinda funny since there's so many kids getting baptised who never go:-) Similar he got "no religion" ticked in the census even though he's been in a church way more times than the thousands who'll tick RC but never go.

When little nipper is older he can make his own mind whether to play Football or go to Church / Mass whatever. In the same way he can make his mind up how much he wants to believe in Santa, Ghoustbusters, WWE wrestling and whatever other fantasies are on the menu.

(*) The missus grew up, you see, in Russia under communism and recognized a similarly jumped-up load of horseshit when she saw it.

Well I'd agree with you there. But I have some sympathy for Church of Ireland, Unitarian, Buddhists, Quakers and milder religions. They seem to be more into what relaxes them rather than dogmatic bible bashing and have a respect for science, gay people and things that generally more extreme religions do not.

Tim Robbins

vicwatson wrote: »

+1

My child will not be making their communion as we don't agree children aged 7/8 have sin to offer up - plus so many other reasons, many as valid as not having sin to offer up. We are not practicing Catholic and infact we don't deem ourselves catholic anymore, this was forced upon us as children and had we known then what we know now I'd have rejected the catholic church a lot earlier. My views have changed dramatically in the last 5 years. For years I didn't agree with the rules of the catholic church and their views on things but somehow just stayed in there. I finally had the courage of my convictions and am no longer a catholic.

We plan on going away on holidays for the time surrounding the communion. We've explained that the reason why my child isn't making communion is because we don't go to mass. She gets it and doesn't seem to be phased by it at all.

There certainly won't be any lasting mental damage I don't think !!

Did you jump into another religion or ditch it altogether?

Tim Robbins

Lucyloo1 wrote: »

I haven't explained it to him, but I couldn't tolerate my children having anything to do with an organisation that has protected and facilitated child abusers. It disappoints me hugely that many other parents aren't prepared to think that through and just want to go with the flow.. most of them will even admit that!

Good for you. Some moral integrity. Something Irish people are a bit low on.

vicwatson

Did you jump into another religion or ditch it altogether?

No other religion, certainly not, we are against "organised" religion per se, will never go back to the Catholic Church unless there was major changes made - women priests, priests can marry, views on homosexuality, contraception etc etc etc change which at the rate they are reforming I will never see in my lifetime !

We allow our child be taught about God and Jesus in school and we are christian but not let her attend masses etc in school. We will bring her up in the way that we believe Jesus set out christianity in his time - be kind, be respectful, honest etc etc etc all the values we can give as parents that the catholic church has forgotten all about IMO.

vicwatson

When little nipper is older he can make his own mind whether to play Football or go to Church / Mass whatever

+1 Tim Robbins

I haven't explained it to him, but I couldn't tolerate my children having anything to do with an organisation that has protected and facilitated child abusers. It disappoints me hugely that many other parents aren't prepared to think that through and just want to go with the flow.. most of them will even admit that!

+1 and this is probably the main reason why we turned away, plus the fact that they are so unresponsive to reform. Grrrr.

I entirely agree with you regarding other parents, to me there are so many hypocrites in the catholic church in ain't funny, I was one up till about 5 years I guess. But I got real and to see those classmates of my child going up to communion when I know for a fact that at least 90% of their parents don't go to mass and won't in future either will bug me but sure we gone through this, I'd prefer to be honest with myself, my wife and children than be a hypocrite. If they wanna be hypocrites and put their child up for "communion" with the catholic church I don't care less !

robindch

Tim Robbins wrote: »

At the moment my missus brings our kid to the Church when she goes mainly for logistical reasons. [...] When little nipper is older he can make his own mind whether to play Football or go to Church / Mass whatever.

I think a lot of people find it difficult of let go of something that evolution has designed to be hard to forget.

The jesuits don't say "Give me the child until he is seven and I’ll give you the man" for nothing!

If I were a bit more argumentative than I am, why not start them going to church when they're thirteen years old and see how you get on?

Newaglish

vicwatson wrote: »

No other religion, certainly not, we are against "organised" religion per se, will never go back to the Catholic Church unless there was major changes made - women priests, priests can marry, views on homosexuality, contraception etc etc etc change which at the rate they are reforming I will never see in my lifetime !

They wouldn't really be Catholic any more then though, would they?

I never understand how people want their Church "reformed". Does the Bible come with frequent expansion packs? Because I would have thought things would pretty much stay the same until Jesus pops back again with some fresh ideas.

vicwatson

If I were a bit more argumentative than I am, why not start them going to church when they're thirteen years old and see how you get on?

Why start them going to church at all?:rolleyes:

vicwatson

They wouldn't really be Catholic any more then though, would they?

I never understand how people want their Church "reformed". Does the Bible come with frequent expansion packs? Because I would have thought things would pretty much stay the same until Jesus pops back again with some fresh ideas.

Rather than reform it, they should get up to speed with their "flock" - they are so out of touch it's not funny. They can of course remain static and have a "flock" of hypocrites which is what the catholic church is rapidly turning in to.

I see it that you are either in the club (and obey the rules of that club) or you aren't (then you can do what you like basically), but you cannot be half in and half out. Oh yeh I don't like the no sex before marriage bit, or the no co-habitation bit, or the no use of profilatics, but sure I'm still a catholic.

Puke !

vicwatson

What are your opinions of all those people (we all know at least ten) who never go to mass, haven't a clue about any religion let alone the one they tick in the census but then slap it up big time for the communion and almost expect you to give it a "oh wow" when they tell you about it?

As a matter of interest Tim - What did you tick on the Census form, I ticked "no religion" as it was the most appropriate one to tick?

robindch

vicwatson wrote: »

why not start them going to church when they're thirteen years old and see how you get on?

Why start them going to church at all?:rolleyes:

Er, I think that's the point

Tim Robbins

vicwatson wrote: »

No other religion, certainly not, we are against "organised" religion per se, will never go back to the Catholic Church unless there was major changes made - women priests, priests can marry, views on homosexuality, contraception etc etc etc change which at the rate they are reforming I will never see in my lifetime !

We allow our child be taught about God and Jesus in school and we are christian but not let her attend masses etc in school. We will bring her up in the way that we believe Jesus set out christianity in his time - be kind, be respectful, honest etc etc etc all the values we can give as parents that the catholic church has forgotten all about IMO.

That sounds like you jumped into another religion.

At least, 30,000 different versions of Christianity. And you picked another one? That's what it sounds like.

Tim Robbins

vicwatson wrote: »

As a matter of interest Tim - What did you tick on the Census form, I ticked "no religion" as it was the most appropriate one to tick?

Me - no religion (I'm atheist). Son - no religion (neither atheist or theist). Missus - COI.

vicwatson

That sounds like you jumped into another religion.

At least, 30,000 different versions of Christianity. And you picked another one? That's what it sounds like.

No, I consider myself a christian alright but not involved or part of any organised church or religion. Maybe I don't understand the difference but I know for certian I ain't catholic no more !;)

Tim Robbins

vicwatson wrote: »

No, I consider myself a christian alright but not involved or part of any organised church or religion. Maybe I don't understand the difference but I know for certian I ain't catholic no more !;)

Yeah that's pretty good. Fair play to you.

I think you should have just specified "other" in the senses and written Christian. But that's just my opinion :-)

When you say you're a Christian what exactly do you mean though? Do you read the bible? Which version?

Or do you just mean it in a cultural sort of way?

Why say Christian say as opposed to Hinduism?

I'm just curious. I'd respect what seems like independent thinking and would be interested in your views.

vicwatson

Yeah that's pretty good. Fair play to you.

I think you should have just specified "other" in the senses and written Christian. But that's just my opinion :-)

When you say you're a Christian what exactly do you mean though? Do you read the bible? Which version?

Or do you just mean it in a cultural sort of way?

Why say Christian say as opposed to Hinduism?

I'm just curious. I'd respect what seems like independent thinking and would be interested in your views.

No I don't read the Bible, but i didn't when i was Catholic either so....:rolleyes:

Well I believe in "christian" values, be an honest citizen, respect other people etc etc I know nothing about Hinduism to be honest:) A religion, if I was to ever return to follow an "organised" religion, I might be interested in is Buddhism, I've always had a minor interest in it and the philosphy behind it.

Coriolanus

OP, when they go on about it, remind them that as a Catholic, it's profaning the Eucharist to accept communion without your soul being in a State of Grace, ie:you need to have confessed since your last mortal sin (of which there are a fuckton).

liamw

vicwatson wrote: »

No I don't read the Bible, but i didn't when i was Catholic either so....:rolleyes:

Well I believe in "christian" values, be an honest citizen, respect other people etc etc I know nothing about Hinduism to be honest:) A religion, if I was to ever return to follow an "organised" religion, I might be interested in is Buddhism, I've always had a minor interest in it and the philosphy behind it.

Sounds like you're probably just (agnostic) atheist like most other people here, including myself. Why do you assign values of 'honesty' and 'respect for others' to Christianity?!

Lucyloo1

I find it incredibly frustrating that it's so hard to have a conversation with any 'Catholics' about the subject. They either gloss over the subject to avoid any debate, or they admit that they feel the same as me but are just doing it for convenience. I love when someone asks me why my son isn't doing communion, although that's a pretty rare event! A lot of parents seem to feel that they can't teach their children any moral values without the structure of an organised religion behind them. I just wish more people would realise that there is a distinction between the beliefs of a particular religion and the human organisation that 'manages' the promotion of same. You can have one without the other. (not that I have either!)

I wonder if people would still buy goods and services from a company that was proven to have facilitated child abuse, right up to the CEO.

Tim Robbins

vicwatson wrote: »

No I don't read the Bible, but i didn't when i was Catholic either so....:rolleyes:

Well I believe in "christian" values, be an honest citizen, respect other people etc

But surely someone does not have to be a Christian to be an honest citizen and respect other people? And if that's the case what's the point of Christianity?

All respectable people have good values irrespective of their spiritual believes or lack of. The only thing that differentiates Christianity is the more challenging believes asked of its adherents. For example, considering gay people as sub human, considering it wrong to sleep with someone before marrying them, believing that people should put Jesus before their family if they have to, and believing in a place called Hell actually exists and that one can end up their purely for not believing in Jesus?

Do you believe in all of these? If not - why call yourself Christian?

vicwatson

Sounds like you're probably just (agnostic) atheist like most other people here, including myself. Why do you assign values of 'honesty' and 'respect for others' to Christianity?!

Well that's just me.

I wonder if people would still buy goods and services from a company that was proven to have facilitated child abuse, right up to the CEO

And maintained a cover up operation:mad:

But surely someone does not have to be a Christian to be an honest citizen and respect other people?

I agree, to me my "religion" and my beliefs stem from having good values based on my own standards.

For example, considering gay people as sub human, considering it wrong to sleep with someone before marrying them, believing that people should put Jesus before their family if they have to, and believing in a place called Hell actually exists and that one can end up their purely for not believing in Jesus?

I never looked at it like that or indeed realised to be christian also meant you class gays as sub human etc etc. I don't believe in any of the above mentioned things but certainly didn't think this meant I couldn't be a "christian"

Tim Robbins

vicwatson wrote: »

I never looked at it like that or indeed realised to be christian also meant you class gays as sub human etc etc. I don't believe in any of the above mentioned things but certainly didn't think this meant I couldn't be a "christian"

If you don't believe in what the Bible says it means to be Christian - why do you call yourself one?

Just trying to understand your thought process here. Surely you had to get an idea of what "Christian" meant from somewhere. You reject the RC Church so the only other options are really the Bible itself. But you reject that version too.

Do you see where I am getting at? You're contradicting yourself.

Galvasean

Christians that don't believe in the Bible? Why the heck is religion so hard to get rid of for so many people? (honest question)

the culture of deference

I was parked up in leixlip on friday out side the church up the hill. About 30 little kids (5-6 year olds) were marched out of the school, and straight into the church. What can we do to stop this continuing. It is wrong.

Tim Robbins

Galvasean wrote: »

Christians that don't believe in the Bible? Why the heck is religion so hard to get rid of for so many people? (honest question)

I think contradictions matters to some people. People who are mildly religious generally don't give a sh*t if they contradict themselves.

It's an emotional thing. Like Irish people who support Liverpool and Man Utd and then hate England.

Lucyloo1

the culture of deference wrote: »

I was parked up in leixlip on friday out side the church up the hill. About 30 little kids (5-6 year olds) were marched out of the school, and straight into the church. What can we do to stop this continuing. It is wrong.

Get religion out of schools! It doesn't belong there. If parents want to raise children in a particular religion, they should be prepared to put the work into it themselves, rather than leaving it to the schools to do it for them. My son has had to spend hours twiddling his thumbs in the Church recently as part of class preparations for Communion, when he should be in school learning. Not only is it accentuating the difference between him and his peers (which isn't fair), it's a total waste of class time.

redfacedbear

Did the marriage in the church (without really thinking about it - I was already an atheist, herself a cultural catholic).

When sprog no.1 arrived I really didn't want her christened but was prevailed upon because of the potential damage to her education prospects if it wasn't done.

I was adamant that that would be as far as it went, herself (with a innate and morbid fear that standing out in school would permanently damage the child) was adamant that communion would happen. The irony being that the missus was already moving from nominal catholicism to something closer to deism and only wanted it done so she wouldn't be 'different'.

In the end an Educate Together has opened up and our kids are going there so we're both on the not doing it side of things for the moment.

Mark200

Can I just ask, are there many schools that only allow baptised children in? Are they public schools? I didn't know of the problem until I've seen a few people recently say that they got their child baptised so they could get into good schools.

Dades

Mark200 wrote: »

Can I just ask, are there many schools that only allow baptised children in? Are they public schools? I didn't know of the problem until I've seen a few people recently say that they got their child baptised so they could get into good schools.

The problem exists but it's tough to nail down how bad it is using only anecdotal evidence. The church aren't exactly renowned for opening their policies to public scrutiny.

Tim Robbins

Dades wrote: »

The problem exists but it's tough to nail down how bad it is using only anecdotal evidence. The church aren't exactly renowned for opening their policies to public scrutiny.

That's it really. The other thing is that the majority of the really good secondary schools are also run by religious organisations. Mainly Catholic but several are C.O.I. Hopefully the Educate Together model will be expanded for secondary schools.