Circus for the school trip??

Froggy7

Hello all, I am facing a bit of a dilemma: my kids (ages 10 and 6) came back with a note from the school saying that this year's summer outing is a trip to the circus. I love the circus... but only the ones with acrobats, performers and... without wild animals! Which, unfortunately, is the case for the circus chosen by the school.

I know there has been great progress in recent years to ensure animals are treated better in captivity (circus and zoos) around Europe, but I've always avoided them out of principle: wild animals are simply unhappy in captivity and should be left in the wild, where they belong - with the exception of natural reserves where they can be protected in a pretence of semi-freedom-. No matter how good, professional and loving their handlers can be, circus is just a golden prison for these poor creatures. This is a decision that I took myself when I was about 10 years old, my son's age.

My kids know my position about that issue; they've seen circuses come and go in the town... from afar. I bring them to the theatre, cinema, festivals instead... but I don't know if I should maybe let them experience it for themselves at least once, so they can see what I am opposed to. And also I don't want to make them miss out on the experience of going out with all their friends...

In either case, I will explain to the school why I'm strongly opposed to exotic animals in circuses, but if I let my kids go, that makes me a bit of a hypocrite, doesn't it?

What do you think?

Morag

I suggest you talk to the principal about it and if you can't get it resolved then if it were me and my kids given the ethics, I wouldn't let them go. I would take the kids of to do something else and lodge a letter of objection to the selection of the trip to the circus with the board of management.

Orion

I agree entirely. Circus animals are kept in small cages - they have to be by nature of the circus. And they do not exist for our amusement.

I would not let my children go on that trip on principle. I would explain to them the reasons in such as way that they would understand. I would refuse the school permission to bring them and detail my objections to it - Get the PA involved in this also. I would also make sure to send them to school on that day - the school would have to accommodate them. It would help to drive home the point.

Then from the childrens' point of view make sure to bring them on a treat to make up for it. While they may understand the reasons behind not going they are still kids and if you substitute something else they'll be delighted. At the weekend take them to another circus, movie, pet farm, etc. Something they want to do. It will make up for missing the trip and act as positive reinforcement too.

silja

Agree with the others. I would not let my kids go, and instead do something really fun with them on the same day.

cocokay

i agree with the others and actually can't believe that after all the publicity ann the elephant recently got that a school would support something like this! its 2011 people, wtf?!

planetX

I would hate it too - and luckily I know my child would refuse to go. We've seen cruelty just passing by the camp, so he knows exactly what the circus is all about.
Besides we both hate clowns. I would make my views known to the school if I were you.

nesf

Sharrow wrote: »

I would take the kids of to do something else and lodge a letter of objection to the selection of the trip to the circus with the board of management.

I think that is way over the top. It's not generally objectionable to take kids to the circus.

Orion

I disagree. She's talking about lodging an objection not making a formal complaint. The BoM has to approve all external trips so it's reasonable to lodge the objection with them as the governing body of the school. The objection is not to a circus trip - it's to this circus for a specific reason.

spurious

I would lodge an objection and suggest an alternative trip.

Froggy7

Thanks all for your comments. I had a chat with my kids and sent a letter to the principal (who wrote the letter about the circus) explaining my position and I included some documentation.

I am due to talk to her tomorrow... she left me a message on my phone saying she feels bad about their choice of outing and she never realised what type of circus it was. I think she said she'll be looking at alternatives, but I'm not sure as the line was bad.

I don't want to rock the boat too much because all the staff in this school are absolute gems and they do a terriffic work, always placing the kids first, listening to parents, etc. But I hope my reaction might have at least made them aware of the issue.

Voicing my concerns and taking my kids to another outing is probably the most I will do; I do not want to go into formal complaints with agroup of hard-working people. Really, the real problem is Ireland being slow to follow on banning these types of circus (30 countries have already done it!) and the most outrageous is when you see that these types of circus receive huge grants from the Arts Council!!! While other very talented, small circuses presenting only human acts are struggling and disappearing...

seriouslysweet

I am probably going to be killed for saying this but I would let me children make up their own mind and respect their decision. More than likely they'll agree with you.

mariaf24

I agree with you 100%, I find animals in circus' absolutely horrifying. I don't even want to think about how they are treated

But i'm going to disagree with everyone else here and advise you not to stop your children going. They are only children and i think it would be terrible to exclude them from the school tour...they will see all the other kids leaving and have to listen to kids go on about it for days after, perhaps even writing essays etc on the school tour.

I think you were right to approach the principal. I'm glad you voiced your beliefs about the circus (Although im not sure id believe that she didint know what type of circus it was). So i would put it in writing that you find a circus to be a poor choice for a school tour as you do not agree with wild animals being caged and treated so poorly to 'perform' for human entertainmemt and you are sorry that your children have to witness this.You might be lucky and they might seek a new tour or it may be the last time they will choose a circus.

You can also tell your children that you are 100% against these circus' and ask them not to support them in the future.
But i really think preventing them from going is unfair on the children to be honest...

ppink

mariaf24 wrote: »

I agree with you 100%, I find animals in circus' absolutely horrifying. I don't even want to think about how they are treated

But i'm going to disagree with everyone else here and advise you not to stop your children going. They are only children and i think it would be terrible to exclude them from the school tour...they will see all the other kids leaving and have to listen to kids go on about it for days after, perhaps even writing essays etc on the school tour.

I think you were right to approach the principal. I'm glad you voiced your beliefs about the circus (Although im not sure id believe that she didint know what type of circus it was). So i would put it in writing that you find a circus to be a poor choice for a school tour as you do not agree with wild animals being caged and treated so poorly to 'perform' for human entertainmemt and you are sorry that your children have to witness this.You might be lucky and they might seek a new tour or it may be the last time they will choose a circus.

You can also tell your children that you are 100% against these circus' and ask them not to support them in the future.
But i really think preventing them from going is unfair on the children to be honest...

Letting kids follow like sheep to the circus is hardly a good idea. is it not a parent's no 1 priority to bring up their family with good morals and ethics and also teaching them that they can stand out from the crowd and dont need to follow others?

OP has done the right thing and I hope the principal follows suit

mariaf24

ppink wrote: »

Letting kids follow like sheep to the circus is hardly a good idea. is it not a parent's no 1 priority to bring up their family with good morals and ethics and also teaching them that they can stand out from the crowd and dont need to follow others?

OP has done the right thing and I hope the principal follows suit

Fair point but i'm just putting myself back when i was in school and i would be furious if i was the one child not going. The OP objecting to principal i think is enough. And beter still if you could get a few more parents on board...

tigerblob

Perhaps you could do what my mother did. I was about eight and the circus was in town and I wanted to go, so she drove me in beforehand to see the elephant which was enclosed outdoors. It looked old and sad and sick, and she explained that it can't be very happy in captivity like this. She told me I could go to the circus if I still wanted to, but I decided that I didn't want to

kippy

I have to ask a very obvious question.
Do the same people who object to trips to the circus on "potential" animal cruelty grounds object to visits to the aquarium, pet farm and zoo, as well as object to the keeping of pets by families?


While I dont see an issue with a parent not wanting their kids to go support a circus that MAY have a poor record in relation to animal care, to go and actively make a formal complaint about it (because that is what you are going to do) is a bit over the top in my opinion - especially when it is so difficult to organise a trip for kids nowadays due to the multitude of over the top health and safety regulations.
It's not right to potentially jeopardise the trip for the rest of the class - as I am sure letters will cause some discussion and possible cancellation when a quiet word to the people who organised it would suffice.

ppink

kippy wrote: »

I have to ask a very obvious question.
Do the same people who object to trips to the circus on "potential" animal cruelty grounds object to visits to the aquarium, pet farm and zoo, as well as object to the keeping of pets by families?


While I dont see an issue with a parent not wanting their kids to go support a circus that MAY have a poor record in relation to animal care, to go and actively make a formal complaint about it (because that is what you are going to do) is a bit over the top in my opinion - especially when it is so difficult to organise a trip for kids nowadays due to the multitude of over the top health and safety regulations.
It's not right to potentially jeopardise the trip for the rest of the class - as I am sure letters will cause some discussion and possible cancellation when a quiet word to the people who organised it would suffice.

I dont go to zoos or aquariums or pet farms but farm animals are generally classed as domesticated anyway.
i dont mind standard pets like the domesticated ones but I do not believe any wild animals should be kept in small confines. no problem with some safari parks.......basically where the animals are kept in similar circumstances to the wild.

It is bananas to allow your kids to go in case it may jeopardise others going. Circuses with animals are a small step up from freak shows.

kippy

ppink wrote: »

I dont go to zoos or aquariums or pet farms but farm animals are generally classed as domesticated anyway.
i dont mind standard pets like the domesticated ones but I do not believe any wild animals should be kept in small confines. no problem with some safari parks.......basically where the animals are kept in similar circumstances to the wild.

It is bananas to allow your kids to go in case it may jeopardise others going. Circuses with animals are a small step up from freak shows.

I wasn't asking that the OP let their kids go just to ensure the trip goes ahead for anyone - but instead not to write a letter of complaint bringing everyone including the board of management into it. A word in the ear of the organiser as to why you are not letting your kids go would suffice. A letter could and probably will cause far more wide reaching issues.

Its great that you dont visit those places - at least your views are somewhat consistent.

Orion

kippy wrote: »

I have to ask a very obvious question.
Do the same people who object to trips to the circus on "potential" animal cruelty grounds object to visits to the aquarium, pet farm and zoo, as well as object to the keeping of pets by families?

I go to the zoo and to pet farms. They are not comparable to caged animals in a circus.

Circuses that have wild animals caged don't necessarily treat them cruelly. But they are kept in conditions that are unsuitable for the animals and display them purely for entertainment.

Zoos perform a vital function in breeding programs to prevent animals becoming extinct. They do their best to provide a conducive environment suitable to the wellbeing of the animals. The zookeepers first concern is for the animals not the public entertainment. E.g. I witnessed a group of morons in the zoo one time complaining that a particular section was closed as the birds in it were in mating season and very private about it. They were told in no uncertain terms that they were way down the pecking order. (pun intended).

Pet farms are made up of domesticated and farmed animals. They are well looked after and again no comparison to circus animals.

Pet keeping again is domestication. I would despise someone who mistreated any animal - their own pet or otherwise. The majority of pets are very well looked after. In my back garden I have 4 hens and 1 rabbit (all of whom are great friends) and in the house a finch and a canary. I don't see this as conflicting with my objection to permanently caged wild animals travelling with a circus.

Orion

kippy wrote: »

but instead not to write a letter of complaint bringing everyone including the board of management into it. A word in the ear of the organiser as to why you are not letting your kids go would suffice. A letter could and probably will cause far more wide reaching issues.

Froggy7 wrote: »

I do not want to go into formal complaints with agroup of hard-working people.

Nobody suggested making a formal complaint. Lodging an objection is not the same as making a complaint. The organiser is the school and the BoM had to approve it. Hence the suggestion to get them involved. It's all about awareness not causing trouble.

kippy wrote: »

Its great that you dont visit those places - at least your views are somewhat consistent.

I don't particularly like this insinuation. See my previous post and try to compare apples with apples not lions with chickens.

kippy

Macros42 wrote: »

I go to the zoo and to pet farms. They are not comparable to caged animals in a circus.

Circuses that have wild animals caged don't necessarily treat them cruelly. But they are kept in conditions that are unsuitable for the animals and display them purely for entertainment.

Zoos perform a vital function in breeding programs to prevent animals becoming extinct. They do their best to provide a conducive environment suitable to the wellbeing of the animals. The zookeepers first concern is for the animals not the public entertainment. E.g. I witnessed a group of morons in the zoo one time complaining that a particular section was closed as the birds in it were in mating season and very private about it. They were told in no uncertain terms that they were way down the pecking order. (pun intended).

Pet farms are made up of domesticated and farmed animals. They are well looked after and again no comparison to circus animals.

Pet keeping again is domestication. I would despise someone who mistreated any animal - their own pet or otherwise. The majority of pets are very well looked after. In my back garden I have 4 hens and 1 rabbit (all of whom are great friends) and in the house a finch and a canary. I don't see this as conflicting with my objection to permanently caged wild animals travelling with a circus.

Farm Animals:
http://animal-lib.org.au/subjects/animals-for-food/22-chickens-battery.html
http://www.peta.org/features/crestview-turkey-investigation.aspx
http://www.dspca.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=802

While I dont disagree with your main points - humans have kept animals caged/not in the wild for years - the only reason animals are domisticated is because they have been held by humans for many generations.

My MAIN issue with this is the letter of complaint - potentially jeopardising the whole trip. Again, I dont necessarily have a problem with people having an issue with some or indeed all circus'.

kippy

Macros42 wrote: »

Nobody suggested making a formal complaint. Lodging an objection is not the same as making a complaint. The organiser is the school and the BoM had to approve it. Hence the suggestion to get them involved. It's all about awareness not causing trouble.


I don't particularly like this insinuation. See my previous post and try to compare apples with apples not lions with chickens.

Lodging and objection, as any person on a board of management will tell you, is as good as lodging a complaint. It has to be discussed and it may result in the trip being called off - dependent on the people involved.

To me, there's not much of a jump between circus animals and caged chickens/turkeys and indeed the keeping of dogs/cats in confined areas without any exercise.

We've gone ridiculously PC in this country in the past 10-20 years - while some if it was required it is beginning to take the biscuit at this stage.

The insinuation is fair in my opinion. Many people pick and chose parts of animal welfare to disagree with while forgetting about the more obvious ones.

Orion

kippy wrote: »

Farm Animals:
http://animal-lib.org.au/subjects/animals-for-food/22-chickens-battery.html
http://www.peta.org/features/crestview-turkey-investigation.aspx
http://www.dspca.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=802

While I dont disagree with your main points - humans have kept animals caged/not in the wild for years - the only reason animals are domisticated is because they have been held by humans for many generations.
.

Sometime I hate when I'm right. I knew in my waters that there was a peta post coming but you trumped that and included animal liberation too. Good work. :rolleyes:

My MAIN issue with this is the letter of complaint - potentially jeopardising the whole trip. Again, I dont necessarily have a problem with people having an issue with some or indeed all circus'

Once again - nobody suggested a complaint - merely an objection. If it means the trip is cancelled and an alternative takes place then that's good as far as I'm concerned. The school could even have a whole discussion and project about it and turn cancelling the circus trip into a positive exercise about environment awareness and animal rights.

kippy

Macros42 wrote: »

Sometime I hate when I'm right. I knew in my waters that there was a peta post coming but you trumped that and included animal liberation too. Good work. :rolleyes:



Once again - nobody suggested a complaint - merely an objection. If it means the trip is cancelled and an alternative takes place then that's good as far as I'm concerned. The school could even have a whole discussion and project about it and turn cancelling the circus trip into a positive exercise about environment awareness and animal rights.

Nice smiley face thingy....

Just making the point that theres a lot of stuff out there that we tend to "forget"/ not care enough about.
Environment awareness and animal rights? You'll have the kids coming home vegans with a fear of meat - deal with that one parents....

Orion

kippy wrote: »

Lodging and objection, as any person on a board of management will tell you, is as good as lodging a complaint. It has to be discussed and it may result in the trip being called off - dependent on the people involved.

Have you been on one? Because I have. And an objection to something and a formal complaint are two completely different things.

To me, there's not much of a jump between circus animals and caged chickens/turkeys and indeed the keeping of dogs/cats in confined areas without any exercise.
...
The insinuation is fair in my opinion. Many people pick and chose parts of animal welfare to disagree with while forgetting about the more obvious ones.

Some people do. And some people are quite blinkered. It is possible to keep pets without mistreating them. Comparing keeping chickens is not the same as caging a lion or tethering an elephant. And once again I don't like the insinuation of hypocrisy. I am totally opposed to animal cruelty and mis-treatment. I do not see keeping pets and looking after them as contradictory to that. Implying it is is just peta bull**** tbh.

kippy wrote: »

Environment awareness and animal rights? You'll have the kids coming home vegans with a fear of meat - deal with that one parents....

Now I'm starting to suspect you're just trolling. I'm done discussing this with you.

kippy

Macros42 wrote: »

Have you been on one? Because I have. And an objection to something and a formal complaint are two completely different things.


Some people do. And some people are quite blinkered. It is possible to keep pets without mistreating them. Comparing keeping chickens is not the same as caging a lion or tethering an elephant. And once again I don't like the insinuation of hypocrisy. I am totally opposed to animal cruelty and mis-treatment. I do not see keeping pets and looking after them as contradictory to that. Implying it is is just peta bull**** tbh.

As of yet I have not been on a board of management - I have a wife who has however. She has been on two different schools one and the handling of any letter from a parent is was dependant on the people on the board and how they themselves reacted to it. One school would take an objection VERY seriously - the other, not so much.
Its possible to keep animals without mistreating them but is keeping them in the first place not mistreating them apart from the fact that we have become accustomed to it?

Listen, I amnt PETA or into any of that nonsense just trying to highlight one or two things. I realise there is a big difference in some peoples minds between pets and caged wild animals.

I don't troll and don't appreciate the allegation being thrown at me.......
Thanks for the conversation.

Ayla

OP - I say fair play to you sticking up for your beliefs & having the guts to do something about it. I agree w/ you about your repulsion of the care some circus animals are kept in - it's inhumane and horribly cruel, and it's the reason I won't attend circuses either.

Although I won't take it as far, I agree w/ some of what Kippy's said. That's the part about the meat...just as it's inhumane to tether an elephant for human entertainment, it is also inhumane to cage millions of animals in horrible conditions to produce meat.

So OP, it's great you feel the way you do, and you should use this experience to teach your children about considerate animal care. Take it one step further and recognize the meat you eat for what it is.

Orion

kippy wrote: »

I don't troll and don't appreciate the allegation being thrown at me.......
Thanks for the conversation.

Some of your points have been partially contradictory. You quoted PETA and Animal Lib - two extremist organisations. But fair enough - you're trying to make a point. I still disagree with you but I withdraw the troll comment.

kippy

Macros42 wrote: »

Some of your points have been partially contradictory. You quoted PETA and Animal Lib - two extremist organisations. But fair enough - you're trying to make a point. I still disagree with you but I withdraw the troll comment.

Thanks,
They are at the extreme end of the spectrum but what they speak about does go on. If you take Animal rights to the nth you will end up with a pretty extremist view.
Have made my point so will avoid posting on the thread again.
OP, best of luck with whatever route you take.

planetX

kippy wrote: »

Thanks,
They are at the extreme end of the spectrum but what they speak about does go on. If you take Animal rights to the nth you will end up with a pretty extremist view.
Have made my point so will avoid posting on the thread again.
OP, best of luck with whatever route you take.

Take your argument in the other direction - and because you allow zoos you must allow circus cruelty, so you might as well allow dogfighting and bearbaiting.
Why shouldn't people take a stand at the particular point they feel strongly about. Anyone is perfectly entitled to object to the disgraceful living conditions and treatment of wild animals in a circus, even if they're not vegetarians. Your argument is a red herring.

parsi

If the OP doesn't agree with circuses then that is their call and there is nothing wrong with letting the organiser know that.

However that does raise the greater issue - is it just particular situations where there may be animal husbandry concerns that get opposed ? What about battery hens ? Battery piggeries ? Are these also going to be condemned and maybe lunchboxes trawled through to ensure that other children don't have products from those areas ?

It may seem extreme but you can't be a la carte about the whole thing. Some other parent may feel extremely strongly about the whole meat issue and bend the ear of the BOM to ensure that meat isn't allowed.

ppink

parsi wrote: »

If the OP doesn't agree with circuses then that is their call and there is nothing wrong with letting the organiser know that.

However that does raise the greater issue - is it just particular situations where there may be animal husbandry concerns that get opposed ? What about battery hens ? Battery piggeries ? Are these also going to be condemned and maybe lunchboxes trawled through to ensure that other children don't have products from those areas ?

It may seem extreme but you can't be a la carte about the whole thing. Some other parent may feel extremely strongly about the whole meat issue and bend the ear of the BOM to ensure that meat isn't allowed.

well if that was the argument than it is like saying no other child from the school should be going to the circus which is silly and not what the OP was saying.

An organised school trip should at the very least be ethical and not supporting torture.

If the school supplies lunches from battery chickens then that is something that they and the parents would have to decide on. like we all have to make that decision as to whether we eat the produce ofanimals treated like that. We also decide is we want to wear the clothes coming from sweat shops where kids make them.

parsi

ppink wrote: »

well if that was the argument than it is like saying no other child from the school should be going to the circus which is silly and not what the OP was saying.

That is what the OP was being advised to do - object, get parent council involved, send their child to school on tour day.

ppink wrote:

An organised school trip should at the very least be ethical and not supporting torture.

If the school supplies lunches from battery chickens then that is something that they and the parents would have to decide on. like we all have to make that decision as to whether we eat the produce ofanimals treated like that. We also decide is we want to wear the clothes coming from sweat shops where kids make them.

That's my point - is it only things that are easy to object to that will be objected to ?

It's easy to object to once-off events or things.

Wolfe Tone

An over the top reaction imo... I would let the kids decide themselves.


I've always enjoyed circuses especially those with animals. What you have done may result in the trip being canceled and wrecking it for all the other kids.

At the most I would simply have kept the child at home.

ppink

yes I suppose I see your point. it is hard for those of us who do not want those animals tortured further to accept that others do not have a problem with it.
for me I just dont see how anyone could not have an issue with animals being kept in containers ever waking hour apart from their performance. especially when they are intelligent and highly social beings like elephants or the like.

Lucky those like Anne the elephant: (not nice footage!) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68a_1301267280 are now in longleat or all the other ones from circuses who ended up in the elephant sanctuary
http://www.elephants.com/
that is where I want to see elephants! not in some silly tent in a park in Ireland when they get left out for an hour to make money.

Anyway OP I an interested to see how you got on.

parsi

ppink wrote: »

yes I suppose I see your point. it is hard for those of us who do not want those animals tortured further to accept that others do not have a problem with it.

I find it terrible that people still serve their children food produced in factories where animals are treated inhumanely .

However this isn't a game of who is more upset by what but a discussion on how far should one go if one is objecting to something and should this objection also impact on others ?

Wolfe Tone

I find it shocking that people keep budgies in cages in their houses, or fish in small tanks etc etc

ppink

parsi wrote: »

I find it terrible that people still serve their children food produced in factories where animals are treated inhumanely .

However this isn't a game of who is more upset by what but a discussion on how far should one go if one is objecting to something and should this objection also impact on others ?

True
And also surely on the responsibility of a school to think ethically when planning school trips?

There is no point in deciding that your kids are not going and giving no reason. giving a reason allows discussion and a conscencous decision.

parsi

Yep - I said that there's no harm in letting the organiser know why the OP objected.

A school tour is once a year. It's easy to be ethical for that - it's a simple choice, a once-off. May be used to salve the conscience (not saying that this applies to the OP).

However should the school be ethical every day - ensuring that the uniforms aren't produced by child labour , that the food bought by parents is free range (or whatever) etc ?

There isn't any easy or simple answer to this.

ppink

Its like a poster said way back somewhere that a stand has to be taken somewhere. Something is your limit.

you are right though- no easy answer to the overall!

Froggy7

Thanks for your comments, suggestions and opinions.

Here's an update:

- My kids are not going on the outing. I will bring them somewhere else for fun and to make up for it. We had a discussion about it and, yes, they were a bit disappointed but they understood my position and agreed with it. They are now happy to go somewhere else. (And I think it's part of their education to learn how to deal with disappointment, even if I bring them to the cinema or park instead).

- The principal totally understands my letter and concerns, she feels really bad about her choice but the other kids will go on the tour anyway, as it is too late to find an alternative. However, she plans to raise the question with the kids in class after the trip and to do a project about exotic animals being brought in Europe, so I am quite happy that there will be a positive outcome to all this.

I will not go into a big debate here about battery animals, eating meat, PETA, etc. I respect everybody's opinions here and wish you the very best in trying to lead your lives according to your principles. That's what I am trying to do too, while also trying to keep an open mind about other people's ideas (thanks for sharing them) and trying to inject a little bit of ethical thinking into my kids.

I will leave you with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izE4_Jd2dOw&feature=related

parsi

That seems to be an effective solution - your message has been received and is going to be developed further in class. Also good to see that your children are receiving a good life lesson but still not losing out in terms of having a treat activity.

thesimpsons

anyone else think that the idea of a trip to circus was just a lazy school tour anyway - nothing even remotely educational in it. I know that tours are fun things there should be some element of education involved surely if the school is sanctioning it. All I can see anyone learning in a trip to a circus is seeing animals in a false environment performing tricks. There are so many other places and things they could have done with the kids (nature walks, visit to farm, orientieering, team building exercises, etc) where they would still have a load of fun and pick up a few skills as well. I've notice in recent years that the tours are becoming less and less even pretending to be a little educational.

I wouldn't agree with a circus visit for school either - we decided years ago that we wouldn't take our kids to circus after our eldest got upset at seeing the size of the animals cages and conditions but they have been to plenty of zoos and open parks that at least do try to simulate a natural environment and participate in breeding programmes.

my youngest is thinking of not going on her tour this year - they are going swimming in local pool where they've gone for years on school swimming lessons and McDs afterwards. I've agreed if she doesn't want to go she can have a fun day of her choice instead. School tours aren't compulsory for either the school to provide or the child to attend, and we feel this was a particularly lazy idea costing far more than it should do.

silja

parsi wrote: »

However should the school be ethical every day - ensuring that the uniforms aren't produced by child labour , that the food bought by parents is free range (or whatever) etc ?

There is a difference between the school and individual parents. For example, a parent who feels strongly about battery hens may write to the school to ask them that only free range eggs/ meat be used in school meals. The school may not comply, but I think it would be reasonable to ask. But if the same parent wrote to the school asking them to write to all other parents asking those parents not to use battery hen eggs in privately brought-from-home lunches, that would be rediculous.

Bubs99

I agree with the OP. I think circus's with animals is cruel and wrong.

I think you should go talk to the principle and the PA and explain your views and objections and do the same with the kids.

I dont think you should let them go and instead bring them to the cinema, bowling, shopping or Fota Island where the animals are let walk free on fresh green land.

I think the kids will enjoy having a laugh watching the little monkeys rob ice cream lollies and cones from people. They do it all the time, and also feeing the giant geese and so much more.

Good luck.

byhookorbycrook

silja wrote: »

There is a difference between the school and individual parents. For example, a parent who feels strongly about battery hens may write to the school to ask them that only free range eggs/ meat be used in school meals. The school may not comply, but I think it would be reasonable to ask. But if the same parent wrote to the school asking them to write to all other parents asking those parents not to use battery hen eggs in privately brought-from-home lunches, that would be rediculous.

School meals??No such thing in Ireland in primary,anyhow.

thesimpsons

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

School meals??No such thing in Ireland in primary,anyhow.

yes there are - disadvantaged schools get free lunches. I know of at least 2 schools who definitely get them and have often heard of others.

byhookorbycrook

Disadvantaged schools get rolls and things, not full meals, afaik. Funding is from year to year I think, so no school dinners like in the U.K.Anyway, back on track!