3 noobs need advice.

Icarus152

Hi all,

Short story,long.A couple of friends and I are gonna give SC2 a shot,starting during the week.One of us started today but got kinda ripped up in multiplayer (I told him to wait).

We are total noobs so I was wondering if you guys had any advice? Do's and don'ts kinda thing? Also,what kind of format would be best? Can we play 3 v 3 against another team? What should we expect?

I had a look at the sticky and there's a few good vids that I'll be coming back to when I get going.

Thanks in advance lads.

rzelky

Definitely watch most of the vids @ teh sticky post [ day[9] archives ], join #starcraft.ie in IRC for a real-time discussion about sc2 and play play play.
If you are total newbs just get familiar with the game, prolly 3v3 would be both fun and helpfull ...

In short IRC -> day[9] vids -> sc2 games

LuckyCharms

Generally strats for the game options 3v3 etc are different depending on the one you like to play.

I would advise that ye play some 3v3 on your own or with 1 of your friends.

The reasons for this is :

You prolly wont get smashed straight off playing as 1 in a team of 3v3.

This will help you understand some of the strats and tac in these games.

Also will allow you some time to get into the later stages of games where you can see different strats paying dividends.

It will give you experience that ye can bring into yere 3v3 games.

Playing 3v3 straight off with your friends will probably involve quick defeats if the opp has anyone decent so having a bit of games under your belt before going as a 3 might be a good idea.

It definitely helped me when i played with my friends in the team games.

Columc

Main basics of the game.

1)Never que up units to be built, try and always have maximum of 2 in a que
2)Always be producing workers(SCV/Drones/Probes) optimise your worker to gas/minerals. per gas and a block of minerals always have 3 workers on them.
3)Learn the basic build order for the starting race. Terran at 10 workers build a supply depo, at 12 workers build a barracks. For Protoss at 9 build a pylon, at 13 build a gateway. For zerg at 9 build a overlord at 15 build a spawning pool.
4)ALWAYS try and spend your minerals/gas. Keep them as low as possable. So if you see yourself having a lot of minerals/gas and queing units in your army producing buildings, Build another one.

3v3 is fun, but does get quite frustrating near the start of you playing as you will get people attacking you very early without you knowing how they got an army that quickly. Just keep practicing and getting better.

The starcraft community is one of the best communities, we are always open for more people wanting to play and improve, because the more people want to improve the more they relise what a great game this is.

Day[9] is a fantastic resource for begginer players. He does a daily webcast on how to be a better Starcraft 2 gamer. You can find his archives of all his shows(there are currently 301) Here:
http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc


There is also a group of us on a chat channel, were we are happy to give advice and ever practice with you.

Details on joining can be located here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984866


Or a straight web link to join to test it out can be found here:

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=starcraft.ie

Dont be afraid to ask, the main thing is its a game and have fun playing it. Once you get into it, you will slowing get intrested in pro matches and streams and see how the top tier players play.

Welcome to Starcraft 2

IRL_Sinister

I haven't touched it, but as far as I know the campaign is meant to be a pretty good introduction to the game so you might want to consider doing that.

Orizio

Icarus, if you wanna play something and get a little advice etc - then I'm Feanor 980 on b.net.

Icarus152

Columc wrote: »

Main basics of the game.

1)Never que up units to be built, try and always have maximum of 2 in a que
2)Always be producing workers(SCV/Drones/Probes) optimise your worker to gas/minerals. per gas and a block of minerals always have 3 workers on them.
3)Learn the basic build order for the starting race. Terran at 9 workers build a supply depo, at 12 workers build a barracks. For Protoss at 9 build a pylon, at 13 build a gateway. For zerg at 9 build a overlord at 15 build a spawning pool.
4)ALWAYS try and spend your minerals/gas. Keep them as low as possable. So if you see yourself having a lot of minerals/gas and queing units in your army producing buildings, Build another one.

3v3 is fun, but does get quite frustrating near the start of you playing as you will get people attacking you very early without you knowing how they got an army that quickly. Just keep practicing and getting better.

The starcraft community is one of the best communities, we are always open for more people wanting to play and improve, because the more people want to improve the more they relise what a great game this is.

Day[9] is a fantastic resource for begginer players. He does a daily webcast on how to be a better Starcraft 2 gamer. You can find his archives of all his shows(there are currently 301) Here:
http://day9tv.blip.tv/posts?view=archive&nsfw=dc


There is also a group of us on a chat channel, were we are happy to give advice and ever practice with you.

Details on joining can be located here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984866


Or a straight web link to join to test it out can be found here:

http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=starcraft.ie

Dont be afraid to ask, the main thing is its a game and have fun playing it. Once you get into it, you will slowing get intrested in pro matches and streams and see how the top tier players play.

Welcome to Starcraft 2

Orizio wrote: »

Icarus, if you wanna play something and get a little advice etc - then I'm Feanor 980 on b.net.

Cheers for all the great tips lads,especially the above two.I'll defo take you up on your offers of advice etc.

Plan is to get the game tomorrow and probably play through the single player for a few days first.Depending on how everything goes,I might start a Diary of a noob type blog for the craic.

Spacedog

play the single player through, it's good
then play the single player challenges, replay the zerg rush challenge until you get gold. this is the most critical challenge for multi-player awesomeness.

then play some custom games with friends, against each other, against computer. then start some games. you will be placed in a league with roughly equal players and will win 50% of your games and have fun in 100% if playing with friends.

VikingErik

Single player will trick you a bit as all those units are not available in multiplayer.
I suppose the campaign is good if you want to play terran later. I wanted to play protoss so I just jumped onto the ladder and got my ass kicked 10 times before it paired me with someone I could beat.

I'd say, watch a lot of replays with good commentators (Day9, Husky, HD etc.) cause it helps you get a better understanding of the game. And the unit counters that you need to be aware of.

Play custom games with each other and then discuss the games and give each other advice and criticism. I've not tried this but I think it could be fun. In custom games you can also just sit in on games played by others. Search for "obs" or "observer" and you should one for each map. There you can just watch others play against one another while the rest of people just talk. People discuss what the players are doing right or wrong and other important elements and you can ask questions if you don't know something.

Orizio

I'd only play the campaign if you enjoy it. You won't learn a whole lot.

VikingErik

I'm REALLY enjoying the campaign. The missions are very different and fun. Multiplayer is a bit stressful but very rewarding because you learn to multi-task and analyse the situation on the go. It challenges you.

Khazidhea

Wait wait wait. Do NOT play challenges and do NOT get into practice league. The game speed is normal in there. I was shocked when I found about it. If you gonna play single player, play on fastest speed! Because it is the only multiplayer speed available on ladder.

And terrans build depo on 10 >_<

VikingErik

Khazidhea wrote: »

Wait wait wait. Do NOT play challenges and do NOT get into practice league. The game speed is normal in there. I was shocked when I found about it. If you gonna play single player, play on fastest speed! Because it is the only multiplayer speed available on ladder.

And terrans build depo on 10 >_<

WHAT???

I was sure ladder was at FASTER game speed.

Columc

Khazidhea wrote: »

And terrans build depo on 10 >_<

Just relsied my typo there Khaz since you said it :P

F69Baal

a couple games between the three of you can me nice to try out stuff (FFA for instance). You can also play the AI (3vs 3easy AI or smthg) just to get used to the basics.

I dont think going on 3v3 ladder directly is too good as you re mostly going to get cheesed/"all in"-ed a lot

at any case, welcome!

VikingErik

F69Baal wrote: »

a couple games between the three of you can me nice to try out stuff (FFA for instance). You can also play the AI (3vs 3easy AI or smthg) just to get used to the basics.

I dont think going on 3v3 ladder directly is too good as you re mostly going to get cheesed/"all in"-ed a lot

at any case, welcome!

You say that like we don't know how to scout.

F69Baal

no i didnt mean it like that.

I m teaching my sister SC2 and at first we went for a couple team games. It s not very interesting to play only 5/6 minutes-long games, regardless of the result.

Even if you scout a canon rush and defend it the game ends right there and you cant really try anything (i meant it more in that way)

VikingErik

F69Baal wrote: »

no i didnt mean it like that.

I m teaching my sister SC2 and at first we went for a couple team games. It s not very interesting to play only 5/6 minutes-long games, regardless of the result.

Even if you scout a canon rush and defend it the game ends right there and you cant really try anything (i meant it more in that way)

I'm only in bronze so I don't know what the experience is at higher levels but I've been lucky enough to have slightly longer games even when I hold off cannon rushes.

seraphimvc

i have played about 1k+ team game with my m8 :pac: and i am consistently in diamond since last year. i only play teamgame for fun whenever when mates call. so abit 2cent here:

in order to fully enjoy team game:
1.go do some 1v1 with 1 race, try to learn the race. i'd say best would be get to gold.
make sure you fully understand how to handle different kind of cheese and the weakness of all races during early game.
2.always remember to up detection at 6-7mins, under normal circumstances.
3.think about your team before you do anything. if he can back you up or you can support him to this attack etc. you work as a team, so when your partner gets attacked, you need to protect him asap or kill 1 of them at the same time.
4.learn a timing attack combo. go at 5-6mins. 5-6mins is a critical timing window which the oppo wont have dt/siege/banshee/blueflame all the BS.

part 3 is really complicated(which is why people dont take teamgame seriously, too many variables to decide a win in team game) and once you do well you will be in higher league. i think you should focus on work out a nice timing attack as a team and i am pretty sure that will get you at least to Plat.

when you get to Dia or higher, most people you see in the games play 1v1 too(you can tell if they play 1v1 or not, their tend to be a one trick pony/dumbass lacking some basic knowledge if they dont do 1v1), so what usually happens is either early timing attack/with cheese->get advantage-> macro war, or Turtle up/with cheese and Tech hardcore. i think 80% of my games are longer than 25mins. the short games are either they all in 2times and understand they have no chance then leave or some early timing attack works out so well. people just dont leave straight away after 1 person die or something, because 3v4 can still win if you get the units and timing right(eg your team keep all in and only kill 1 player, the other players have the econ to own you all etc).

anyway,try to do some timing combo and when you get to higher league, you will need to have solid macro too.

and if you play long enough you will get used to alot of imba BS in sc2 :P just saying. i really think that teamgame is a good way to test out some unit counters etc, since the army scale is always bigger.

IRL_Sinister

Build Ravens.

Laisurg

Just start playing against the computer and get a feel for the game, then go on team liquid and look up some strategy guides.

VikingErik

Laisurg wrote: »

Just start playing against the computer and get a feel for the game, then go on team liquid and look up some strategy guides.

Watch some replays and Day9. Make sure you use hotkeys. And then jump in the ladder. You'll lose like 6-7 games at first then get matched against people at your own level. Battle.net is very good at matching you well once you've done your placements.

I jumped straight into the ladder when I got the games. I watched a lot of replays before which helps you understand unit counters, builds and some economy.

For replays I go to - http://sc2casts.com/ - it has really good filtering options (by caster/player/date posted/match-up/etc)

gearoidof

on a brighter note, as you lose games, the games get more even!

VikingErik

Also important to ask yourself "why did I lose?" and then try to improve on that.

Icarus152

Just a quick update on the OP....

I started out playing the campaign on hard difficulty and found it unpossible.On most levels I had to reduce back to normal.The campaign gave me a feel for the controls and a start at understanding Terran units.

I've tried to follow the day 9 vids but found them a bit heavy on detail for a beginner.Someone posted this 3 barrack build order vid in the other beginners thread here which I've found very good.Simple,clear and concise.Any thoughts on what type of builds I should continue with from here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWItSrXKwzw

I've played about 8 games in the beginners league,I won the first 5 using the above strat and lost the last 3.I think they may have put me against trickier opponents after game 5.I've been caught out by an early zerg air-rush once and once by my opponent's wise use of medivacs.Think I may have to incorpoate medivac production into my build order.

My 2 noob friends are lagging behind a little in their play,I think.

Any thoughts,opinions or suggestions welcome.

VikingErik

I'd say from here on out its all about just getting better at execution and you could learn more builds. Learn to micro, maybe incorporate some ghosts. Definitely learn medivac use and dropping. Learn to attack on multiple fronts cause that's a deadly skill. Maybe start using marine/tank composition as an alternative, it would certainly help you deal with those muta-balls.

Other than that I'd suggest you make sure you have fun.

Khazidhea

Beginner league = Practice league != Bronze league? Get out of there!

The game speed is slower than the real thing, forget about it!

VikingErik

Khazidhea wrote: »

Beginner league = Practice league != Bronze league? Get out of there!

The game speed is slower than the real thing, forget about it!

Oh yeah, I forgot about the beginners league. Get out of that. It's only good for practising hotkeys.

Icarus152

Khazidhea wrote: »

Beginner league = Practice league != Bronze league? Get out of there!

The game speed is slower than the real thing, forget about it!

I've tried to balance things out by playing against the AI on very hard aswell.I suppose I just find the unranked games in the beginners league a little less scary.Also,it seems like a good sandbox to try different play styles.

Fair point though,I'm sure you could develop alot of lazy habits there too.

VikingErik

You'll only really get better by playing better players. I know I remembered feeling like regular speed and the ladder felt scary, but you get used to it and it ends up being really exciting.

JUST DO IT!

Jonny7

pick zerg in the team league

get your mate to pick terran

With zerg look for the 10 pool speedling build (on liquipedia)
Your terran mate should just produce marines (cut scvs, build 3 barracks)

Over time (games are very short) your attack will get better, more organised and earlier (4:30 attack with 7 marines with overlord for sight and 8 lings is pretty much what you can be aiming for)

I know its a bit advanced, but choosing one build, and refining it over and over is great fun.. its a build that works.. and it will get you into very high masters if you get good at it

For 3v3 same thing, just third player terran or zerg

Cheese/early attack/whatever you want to call it, is the fastest and most fun way to rapidly advance

VikingErik

Jonny7 wrote: »

pick zerg in the team league

get your mate to pick terran

With zerg look for the 10 pool speedling build (on liquipedia)
Your terran mate should just produce marines (cut scvs, build 3 barracks)

Over time (games are very short) your attack will get better, more organised and earlier (4:30 attack with 7 marines with overlord for sight and 8 lings is pretty much what you can be aiming for)

I know its a bit advanced, but choosing one build, and refining it over and over is great fun.. its a build that works.. and it will get you into very high masters if you get good at it.

For 3v3 same thing, just third player terran or zerg

Cheese/early attack/whatever you want to call it, is the fastest and most fun way to rapidly advance

UNLESS, you play the game because you like PLAYING more than ADVANCING (aka "Levelling up").
If you enjoy teching and getting those big and juicy units out OR you enjoy team work and strategizing then the fast build above is probably the most fun.

Personally I like messing about. And yes, that means sometimes you get hammered by early rushes, but that's all part of the game and you learn to cope with it.

P.S. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I felt it's important to point out that not all people are playing for the win and advancing, some people are playing for the sheer fun of extended high tech games, while others play to improve and some people just enjoy crushing their opponents in whatever way possible.

Jonny7

VikingErik wrote: »

UNLESS, you play the game because you like PLAYING more than ADVANCING (aka "Levelling up").
If you enjoy teching and getting those big and juicy units out OR you enjoy team work and strategizing then the fast build above is probably the most fun.

Personally I like messing about. And yes, that means sometimes you get hammered by early rushes, but that's all part of the game and you learn to cope with it.

P.S. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I felt it's important to point out that not all people are playing for the win and advancing, some people are playing for the sheer fun of extended high tech games, while others play to improve and some people just enjoy crushing their opponents in whatever way possible.

I completely agree - whichever provides the most fun

Dubhthamlacht

I only recently started on SC2 multiplayer and I am finding it a little bit daunting. I played in the practice league and although most people here advise against playing in it, I've only seen that now! Practice league did at least give me time to get used to the hotkeys, build orders and some of the basics.

In my first 5 games for 1v1 placement I got caught out my the changes in pace but I still won 3 out 5. So I'm in a silver league (i think) without being much good. I took part in some in some random 3v3 games and I was totally lost with the abbreviations and slang for some of stuff my allies said they were doing. Rax?

I've stuck to playing as Terran but I do find the stuff at Day9 a little bit confusing.

VikingErik

Rax = Barracks

You did your placement games a lot better than me. I went 0-5 or 4-1 I think and got dumped into bronze, which I have yet to get out of so I'd say you saved yourself about 100 games vs bronze players (unless you drop down to bronze that is).

Congrats.

Orizio

Dubh, I'm Feanor 980, if you want some help we can play some games some time.

Dubhthamlacht

VikingErik wrote: »

Rax = Barracks

You did your placement games a lot better than me. I went 0-5 or 4-1 I think and got dumped into bronze, which I have yet to get out of so I'd say you saved yourself about 100 games vs bronze players (unless you drop down to bronze that is).

Congrats.

thanks but I reckon I was very very lucky against 2 of those opponents! In both of those games, I air dropped a siege tank and 8 marines and just rampaged through their base. In both cases, the opponents were about hallf way across the map to my base before they did a U-turn.

In the two games I lost I was well and truly stomped on after after 5 mins. I reckon I will probably be out of my depth in the silver league but sure I'll give it a go.

Dubhthamlacht

Orizio wrote: »

Dubh, I'm Feanor 980, if you want some help we can play some games some time.

Thanks Orizio. I'll add you next time I am on.

I'm in 1v1 Silver Division Fole Oscar
And also in Random 3 v 3 Gold Division Raszagal Pepper

Laisurg

Be careful about trying to copy the pro players builds from watching replys, especially if you play zerg because you just won't be able to do the amount of apm to do it properly, but you can take some very useful stuff from the videos, playing against the computer is pretty decent for building up your apm and macro skills, not great for micro though as the computer is pretty rubbish at controlling it's units and they're very easy for you to control as a result, playing against a person is completely different in that sense.
Liquidpedia has loads of great strats too i'd suggest looking that up, best way to improve though is to play lots of games, becoming more familiar with the game will help your playing more than anything else.
Hotkeys are VERY important you need to use them, try get really familiar with them.
Scouting is very important as well, figure out what your opponent is doing and base your choices on that.

Icarus152

Just a quick update on this noobs progress...

My 2 friends didn't last long and have returned to some little known game called 'World of Warcraft'.Bleh.

So I played my 5 1v1 placement matches,think I won 2 or 3 out of 5.For some unknown reason, this landed me in the gold league.Played 20 or 30 games there and won 1.

Dropped down to Silver this morning,played 5 matches.I won the second game but then lost 3 in a row which catapulted me down to my current home, bronze.

Can dos.

I'm not worried yet about which league I'm in or what position I am.

I only play Terran,I feel I should get comfortable with this race before trying the others.

I'm using a 3-rax MMM build.I usually try to mix in a medivac/marine doomdrop to disrupt my opponents supply.

I'm getting better at using hotkeys and remembering build order.

Can't do

I'm sh*t at scouting.I've been sending my SCV out after I build my first supply depot but other then locating the enemy,I'm not sure what the hell I'm supposed to be doing.

I really have no clue what the enemy structures are or what they produce.

With a few exceptions,I don't know what the best counter measures are to alot of the basic zerg/protoss early strat's are.

I'm unfamiliar with the maps and find the 2 v 2 ones hard to locate the enemy.Can I set it up for mostly 1 v 1 maps? I've selected the ones I favour in 'map preferences' already.

Laisurg wrote: »

Be careful about trying to copy the pro players builds from watching replys, especially if you play zerg because you just won't be able to do the amount of apm to do it properly, but you can take some very useful stuff from the videos, playing against the computer is pretty decent for building up your apm and macro skills, not great for micro though as the computer is pretty rubbish at controlling it's units and they're very easy for you to control as a result, playing against a person is completely different in that sense.
Liquidpedia has loads of great strats too i'd suggest looking that up, best way to improve though is to play lots of games, becoming more familiar with the game will help your playing more than anything else.
Hotkeys are VERY important you need to use them, try get really familiar with them.
Scouting is very important as well, figure out what your opponent is doing and base your choices on that.

^^^^ Seems like very good advice,ty.

I still have alot of videos to catch up on before I take any of you up on your kind offers of practice matches etc ty.

Tenger

The constant losses can be daunting!

My win rate is maybe 30% at the moment (Last Sat won 5/14 matches!)

I like the 3 rax build order too. I find a reaper harrass handy, (maybe 4-5 reapers) usually does a bit of economic harrass and I often delegate 1 of them to scout his base as he kills the other 4.

Try play a few custom games as zerg/protoss just to know what each 'enemy' building does. EG. If you see a roach warren/spire with zerg you know you will need lots of marauders/marines.

TIP: against zerg I like a raven with my troops to spot creep tumours
TIP: against protoss a couple of ghosts can use their EMP ability to really boost your defenses. (The attached game shows this,the opponent had a more powerful army than me but lost the fight quite badly.......also shows my low skill level!)

Khazidhea

I suggest forget about harass and scouting for now.
Get the builds down exactly as they should.

If you can hit a right timing with 3 rax (basically means when stim and (maybe) combat shields are done) - you will just straight up kill your opponent till they get somewhat decent (masters ... maybe diamond level).

It's hard to multitask. You will need that later. Right now I suggest on just good macro and (maybe) some micro. Which means a timing attack like 3 rax. If you really want to force yourself to do that try a map called "multatsking trainer". And there is no point in scouting if you dont know what you are looking for. And if you dont change your build ANYWAY - then there is no reason to scout at all. And you will always go 3 rax.

Do you have a video or replay of someone doing 3rax? Compare the unit count and timings with yours.

I can make a replay for you if you really need one. I actually had an all-inish build in TvZ with an attack coming at 6:50 with 3 marauders, 17 marines, 10 scvs and about ~15 scvs left mining. But it was before stim nerf so now it would 7:20 and a bit more stuff.

Icarus152

Khazidhea wrote: »

I suggest forget about harass and scouting for now.
Get the builds down exactly as they should.

If you can hit a right timing with 3 rax (basically means when stim and (maybe) combat shields are done) - you will just straight up kill your opponent till they get somewhat decent (masters ... maybe diamond level).

It's hard to multitask. You will need that later. Right now I suggest on just good macro and (maybe) some micro. Which means a timing attack like 3 rax. If you really want to force yourself to do that try a map called "multatsking trainer". And there is no point in scouting if you dont know what you are looking for. And if you dont change your build ANYWAY - then there is no reason to scout at all. And you will always go 3 rax.

Do you have a video or replay of someone doing 3rax? Compare the unit count and timings with yours.

I can make a replay for you if you really need one. I actually had an all-inish build in TvZ with an attack coming at 6:50 with 3 marauders, 17 marines, 10 scvs and about ~15 scvs left mining. But it was before stim nerf so now it would 7:20 and a bit more stuff.

Tnx,I'll try all these suggestions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWItSrXKwzw

^^^^^ This is the order I've been trying to follow.

michaelyou

check out day9 podcasts for sure

UnholyGregor

Best advice I can give someone starting sc2 is, well, not to beat yourself up over it, enjoy the game, and immerse yourself in the phenomenon that is e-sports.
sure, you could spend hours learning build orders, and practicing your micro, but, for any newcomer, the most important thing is to establish long term interest in the game, set the seeds for what will, hopefully one day, become one of the most amazing hobbies someone could hope to have.

Check out teamliquid.net, Starcraft Reddit, and just familiarise yourself with the scene. Theres so much more to starcraft than grinding out ladder games.
Enjoy the game and let yourself fall in love with the scene, that is something that i have to remind myself sometimes, after thousands of hours of gameplay, its important to remember that its not about winning, you dont play the game for money, unlike some people, and its really saddening when i see people with ''ladder anxiety''. Play for fun, you have all the time in the world to get to diamond or master league. Just dont let yourself get intimidated by the enormous competitiveness of the game, and have fun.

Edit: Sorry if this post gives you the wrong impression of me, i actually seem like a nice guy.... if i see you asking for help with specific strats and ****, i wont hesitate to strategically tear you apart and crush your spirit and dreams of gaming