people leaving sh!t in 24 hr study room.

dropinthocean

Whats the story with people leaving books etc on desks when they leave. Ridiculously inconsiderate. Not to mention the empty coffee cups etc. Place looks like a fcuking tip

Groinshot

dropinthocean wrote: »

Whats the story with people leaving books etc on desks when they leave. Ridiculously inconsiderate. Not to mention the empty coffee cups etc. Place looks like a fcuking tip

This has been done to death on the rant/bitch/moan thread. Move the stuff!!!

stesh

dropinthocean wrote: »

Whats the story with people leaving books etc on desks when they leave. Ridiculously inconsiderate. Not to mention the empty coffee cups etc. Place looks like a fcuking tip

After 15 minutes of a desk being unattended, you can clear it and use it.

Lawliet

stesh wrote: »

After 15 minutes of a desk being unattended, you can clear it and use it.

The problem is unless you have someone there keeping track of how long stuff has been lying unattended, you'd have to wait around for fifteen minutes before taking the place.
There ought to be a rule about writing down the time you've left the desk at, and preferable have someone around to enforce it around exam time.

rebecca 30

we have that system in N.U.I.G, if you leave your study desk , you must leave a note saying what time you left, and if your not back in time or if you dont leave a note then anyone can move your stuff and sit at your desk ,

Larianne

Lawliet wrote: »

The problem is unless you have someone there keeping track of how long stuff has been lying unattended, you'd have to wait around for fifteen minutes before taking the place.
There ought to be a rule about writing down the time you've left the desk at, and preferable have someone around to enforce it around exam time.

I frickin said that on one of the threads and Unshelved wrote that there's a place in the BLU where you can get a little form to write on and do this, or something....

The Black Oil

Yellow slips or something were available when I studying in TCD, though I never saw anyone use them. I did once log someone off a PC (not in the library) because they'd been gone for around 30 mins. He didn't complain. Would be a bit more wary of moving books, but I'm a lowly graduate user now. The library was fairly hectic at the start of last week, eased a bit later on. I saw some guy use his coat and books to take up one of the 2x2 seats in the Ussher. Felt like moving it when he fecked off so someone else could benefit, or if I saw someone looking for a seat, I would have tried to gesture that it was free. Really no need for that kind of carry on.

TrollHammaren

It might be an idea to email the librarians about it, OP. I stopped using the library a long time ago because the level of sheer ignorance in there is a disgrace.

amacachi

I've never been in the library so I won't be there for it but I hope that someone records and uploads the first freak-out/desk sweep that happens.

A_Border_Bandit

If I were to go into the 24 hour library tomorrow and clear a space after 15 minutes of waiting, what sort of reaction from the other users would I get? I would love to do it.

There are a lot of smug heads in that room, whenever someone goes in you can see them look up and watch the person as they search for a space with a look on their mug that just screams "I'm so great cause I came in first thing this morning. Acknowledge how studious and committed I am".

I feel like if I were to move a space-hoarders stuff the others would swarm on me like flies to sh!te 'cause I didn't come in at 8am like they did.

Boo! :mad:

amacachi

A_Border_Bandit wrote: »

If I were to go into the 24 hour library tomorrow and clear a space after 15 minutes of waiting, what sort of reaction from the other users would I get? I would love to do it.

There are a lot of smug heads in that room, whenever someone goes in you can see them look up and watch the person as they search for a space with a look on their mug that just screams "I'm so great cause I came in first thing this morning. Acknowledge how studious and committed I am".

I feel like if I were to move a space-hoarders stuff the others would swarm on me like flies to sh!te 'cause I didn't come in at 8am like they did.

Boo! :mad:

Go in and stare the **** out of an empty space for a while. The looks should be hilarious. I really want someone to clear a space on video. :P

A Neurotic

I cleared a space last year, after being assured by a mate that it had been vacant for ages. Dude came back pretty much just as I settled in. Wasn't pleased. I got embarrassed and had to give it back to him. Bad times.

Mountain_Surfer

To add insult to injury to students who walk in naively thinking that they will get a spot in the 24hr, not only do they have to contend with TCD students but I know for a fact that there are people in there (graduates) who are studying for their professional accounting exams (with the likes of KPMG etc). Funny that because you need a student card to get in there! Its an absolute joke.

On the other hand people in there are starting to take a stand against those who save desks. Heard of people studying late then coming in late the following morning who had left their stuff on their desk only to find that someone had (rightfully) taken it, much to their serious annoyance! Its understandable leaving a desk reserved for lunch and a small break here and there but over night is a joke.

Anyway it all sounds a little mental in there, hence why I study in my room. Much less hassle

Mountain_Surfer

Mountain_Surfer wrote: »

why I study in my room. Much less hassle

And you can make tea/coffee whenever you like!
I much prefer studying at home, because this way, I get to eat 24/7.

delta720

A Neurotic wrote: »

I cleared a space last year, after being assured by a mate that it had been vacant for ages. Dude came back pretty much just as I settled in. Wasn't pleased. I got embarrassed and had to give it back to him. Bad times.

Did you have a school bag and a kit bag by any chance??

I went for lunch (45 mins - an hour) and left my stuff there last year, some guy was just getting settled in when I came back, I just said 'sorry?' and fair play to him he moved. I felt bad cause he had to leave the room then cause there was no other seats, but in fairness when your in there all day you have to leave at some stage for food. I also used to go in dead early cause of those arseholes who leave their stuff there overnight! :mad:

TrollHammaren

The best thing is to stop being so polite towards people who are clearly being selfish prats.

If you come in and find someone has left their stuff there overnight then move it!

If someone takes up more than their fair share of space (my pet hate), ask them to move their stuff! They have to oblige! There's this one wanker who comes into the Lecky and Ussher libraries, big arrogant head on him, and he sits down in one seat, and covers each seat either side of him with books, bags etc. Back when I went to the library, I used to deliberately sit beside him, even when there were other spaces, just so he'd have to move his stuff

There are a number of things we can do to remain considerate. If we've been in all day and we go to lunch we should leave a note on the desk - otherwise no one can tell whether you've just popped out for a wee or are just reserving a place for yourself. We can also make sure we don't use more than one study space, and for fúck's sake lower the volume on MP3 players. Finally, if you see your fellow students having a loud whisper conversation, lynch them on site!

The Black Oil

Does he have a beard and glasses?

TrollHammaren

The Black Oil wrote: »

Does he have a beard and glasses?

No, hair with blonde highlights and BESS student clothes. He could very well have a beard and glasses now. I also wouldn't be surprised if there's a fair few of them floating around.

Larianne

delta720 wrote: »

Did you have a school bag and a kit bag by any chance??

I went for lunch (45 mins - an hour) and left my stuff there last year, some guy was just getting settled in when I came back, I just said 'sorry?' and fair play to him he moved. I felt bad cause he had to leave the room then cause there was no other seats, but in fairness when your in there all day you have to leave at some stage for food. I also used to go in dead early cause of those arseholes who leave their stuff there overnight! :mad:

Lunch can be done in half an hour. I think thats the max anyone should be gone for.

stesh

delta720 wrote: »

Did you have a school bag and a kit bag by any chance??

I went for lunch (45 mins - an hour) and left my stuff there last year, some guy was just getting settled in when I came back, I just said 'sorry?' and fair play to him he moved. I felt bad cause he had to leave the room then cause there was no other seats, but in fairness when your in there all day you have to leave at some stage for food. I also used to go in dead early cause of those arseholes who leave their stuff there overnight! :mad:

Leaving for lunch isn't really an excuse - the fact is that there fewer carrels than there are people who need to study, and it's not fair for one person to occupy a single carrel for the entire day. It's really frustrating to come into a reading room in which all the empty desks are occupied by personal belongings.

It's also against library regulations:

*. Readers are not permitted to reserve seats by leaving their belongings or books on seats and desks. The Library staff may move any property left at unoccupied desks or seats for more than 15 minutes except for officially reserved seats and carrels.

Raedwald

Top floor of the BLU in the history section behind the shelves there are seats. If you leave a stack of books with a handwritten letter on the desk with the date on them they will not be restakced on you and most people wont take your seat either.

24 hr needs a library attendant at this time year. Certain occupants think the room is there solely for their own use and treat it as such with litter lying around all around the room and that because they use the same desk it is theirs for the entire period.

jmn89

Couple of weeks ago in the 24 hour space the girl next to me (who had marketing and law books on her desk) spent most of the day on youtube, megavideo (must have had a paid account) and popping out for cigarette breaks every twenty minutes. Understandable that there are days when you just can't seem to concentrate and succumb to internet procrastination, but she was at it all day on a Saturday and Sunday and on both days there were people sitting on the ground for hours waiting, praying for a space to open up.

Thankfully I finished both my exams and college almost 3 weeks ago . Hang in there guys!

PurpleFistMixer

Larianne wrote: »

Lunch can be done in half an hour. I think thats the max anyone should be gone for.

Ah now, an hour for lunch is reasonable. Just don't expect your place to still be there when you get back.

Also, this entire thread makes me very glad that I don't study in a "public" place in college.

just-joe

Does anyone here tell randomers to shut up when they're talking too much?

Had to do it a couple of time in the hamilton last year, newbie science kids it seemed, they were a bit shocked but everyone else was happy.:D

delta720

stesh wrote: »

Leaving for lunch isn't really an excuse - the fact is that there fewer carrels than there are people who need to study, and it's not fair for one person to occupy a single carrel for the entire day. It's really frustrating to come into a reading room in which all the empty desks are occupied by personal belongings.

It's also against library regulations:

Id rather leave for lunch than annoy the people around me while I'm eating. If your in there 9am-10pm like I was in the weeks before my dissertation was due then I think its reasonable to leave for lunch or a break every few hours. Also I had to be up at 7am to be in for 9 everyday and I wouldn't think it fair that someone who strolls in at 12 could take my seat just cause I'm off grabbing a roll in spar.

Lawliet

delta720 wrote: »

Id rather leave for lunch than annoy the people around me while I'm eating. If your in there 9am-10pm like I was in the weeks before my dissertation was due then I think its reasonable to leave for lunch or a break every few hours. Also I had to be up at 7am to be in for 9 everyday and I wouldn't think it fair that someone who strolls in at 12 could take my seat just cause I'm off grabbing a roll in spar.

You really don't have more right to that desk just because you got there early. If the library rules say you can only save a place for X amount of time, and you leave the place vacant for longer than that then it is perfectly fair that someone can come in at twelve and take it.

bythewoods

Mountain_Surfer wrote: »

To add insult to injury to students who walk in naively thinking that they will get a spot in the 24hr, not only do they have to contend with TCD students but I know for a fact that there are people in there (graduates) who are studying for their professional accounting exams (with the likes of KPMG etc). Funny that because you need a student card to get in there! Its an absolute joke.

No you don't... The door's been wedged open with a plastic bottle for the last few days at least.

Saw someone in there signing into their DIT email account recently. Rage.

just-joe

If people from DIT were in there, I'd be tempted to call the librarians and ask them to sort it out. Its a bit ridiculous. Maybe that eastern european guy is still on the prowl, I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping out!

d93c2inhxfok4y

The accepted way seems to be first come served, with a few five minute breaks and lunch how long you can/should leave for. Tbh I think that's totally reasonable.

Especially an hour for lunch. Lunchtime is an hour. During the 9am-10pm library days, it's all there is to look forward to!

Hah, I love how everyone was really mad at the start of this thread when they were thinking about how hard it is for them to get a seat, and now they're thinking about how they themselves act in the study space it's all "ah well, y'know, an hour for lunch is to be expected, it would be unfair to expect you to go without food, toilet breaks, rolls..."

I don't use the college study space, so here's an objective view. When you go for lunch, take your stuff with you. If everyone did that, there'd be a lot more study done, the seats would always have someone who's actually studying at them, and everyone would be a lot happier.

TrollHammaren

just-joe wrote: »

Does anyone here tell randomers to shut up when they're talking too much?

Had to do it a couple of time in the hamilton last year, newbie science kids it seemed, they were a bit shocked but everyone else was happy.:D

I did when I was in the libro. I also still do it in the cinema. I have asked people to lower the volume on their mp3 players, too.

gearoidof

bythewoods wrote: »

Saw someone in there signing into their DIT email account recently. Rage.

Some courses are registered with both DIT and TCD, such as music

ohthebaby

Raedwald wrote: »

Top floor of the BLU in the history section behind the shelves there are seats. If you leave a stack of books with a handwritten letter on the desk with the date on them they will not be restakced on you and most people wont take your seat either.

That's not fair either. It's as bad as keeping a space over night in the 24 study place. Why should your books be sitting there waiting for you when perhaps other people come in and need to find them when you're not there? I take great pleasure in going in on a Saturday morning is going in and stealing the books I need from the people who have 'reserved' them.

Raedwald

ohthebaby wrote: »

That's not fair either. It's as bad as keeping a space over night in the 24 study place. Why should your books be sitting there waiting for you when perhaps other people come in and need to find them when you're not there? I take great pleasure in going in on a Saturday morning is going in and stealing the books I need from the people who have 'reserved' them.

I'm not saying that it is either. I'm just saying that it gets done on a regular basis up there.

Lisandro

delta720 wrote: »

Id rather leave for lunch than annoy the people around me while I'm eating. If your in there 9am-10pm like I was in the weeks before my dissertation was due then I think its reasonable to leave for lunch or a break every few hours. Also I had to be up at 7am to be in for 9 everyday and I wouldn't think it fair that someone who strolls in at 12 could take my seat just cause I'm off grabbing a roll in spar.

Eating at your desk would be quite bad, but the fact that it's worse doesn't mean it's fair to leave your desk unoccupied for ages. You're not doing people a favour by not eating at your desk, it's just basic manners.

Leaving for lunch is only reasonable if you vacate your spot for use by other students. You're no more entitled to that spot once you leave it than they are.

And it most certainly is fair for someone to turn up at 12pm and take your seat if you're off having your lunch. The seat belongs to the library, not you.

The principle behind student use of the library is that it's open to everyone. People who are actually there and willing to study take priority over absentee studiers.

If you let people reserve places all day, then you're making life inconvenient for those who do want to study when you're off eating. A library that does this is failing to fulfill its role as an open study space.

I don't care if you turned up and left your books on the desk on the 31st December 1999, when you leave that desk, you have a responsibility not to deprive people of use of that study space.

I can understand a fifteen minute break, but the line should really be drawn there. But please, get rid of the notion that you have some entitlement to the seat for the day just because you turned up at 9am.

delta720

Lisandro wrote: »

Eating at your desk would be quite bad, but the fact that it's worse doesn't mean it's fair to leave your desk unoccupied for ages. You're not doing people a favour by not eating at your desk, it's just basic manners.

Leaving for lunch is only reasonable if you vacate your spot for use by other students. You're no more entitled to that spot once you leave it than they are.

And it most certainly is fair for someone to turn up at 12pm and take your seat if you're off having your lunch. The seat belongs to the library, not you.

The principle behind student use of the library is that it's open to everyone. People who are actually there and willing to study take priority over absentee studiers.

If you let people reserve places all day, then you're making life inconvenient for those who do want to study when you're off eating. A library that does this is failing to fulfill its role as an open study space.

I don't care if you turned up and left your books on the desk on the 31st December 1999, when you leave that desk, you have a responsibility not to deprive people of use of that study space.

I can understand a fifteen minute break, but the line should really be drawn there. But please, get rid of the notion that you have some entitlement to the seat for the day just because you turned up at 9am.

Thats all well and good but that means if you go for lunch you basically may aswell go home after cause you'll not get a seat when you come back. First come first served... ya get up early you get a seat, and have security remove stuff left over night. Simple. And I'm traveling 70km into college every morning so if I can be in in time to get a seat anyone can.

Lisandro

delta720 wrote: »

Thats all well and good but that means if you go for lunch you basically may aswell go home after cause you'll not get a seat when you come back. First come first served... ya get up early you get a seat, and have security remove stuff left over night. Simple. And I'm traveling 70km into college every morning so if I can be in in time to get a seat anyone can.

Simply not true. If you finish with your seat, you wait your turn, assuming there's no free space when you get back. I notice that there are always quite a few desks covered in books and notes with nobody studying at them. If any of them are away for more than twenty minutes (let's give them the benefit of the doubt), then it is perfectly within your rights to move their stuff to the side.

How do you think other people feel when they see unused desks that are basically reserved all day? It's not very fair on them seeing that desks are being vacated for long periods of time, yet they're expected not to use them because their occupant is off getting lunch. Just because you get up at the crack of dawn doesn't mean others should be dragged into this needless race. It's not their responsibility to accommodate you going off for lunch.

There's a reason Trinity Libraries don't allow reserving of spaces. It's because it doesn't create a positive study atmosphere, especially for those who don't want to be dragged into a race to see who can get to the library the earliest. It's because study space not being used creates resentment among those who actually do want to study. Study in the library is about personal learning in a calm and quiet, not competing for spots and flagging territory.

Once again, reserving of seats is very much against the spirit and purpose of a library and only benefits a minority who arrive at 9am, excluding people who actually have other stuff to do during the day. If you arrive early, you're perfectly entitled to study in that space. However, once you leave it for an extended period of time, that's when you have to let others use it, and why you should be entitled to keep a space you're not using for the guts of an hour is something you haven't shown. It's not a question of first-come-first-served, it's a question of manners and decency and I believe it's only fair to give up your spot when you leave for any longer than fifteen minutes.

delta720

Lisandro wrote: »

Simply not true. If you finish with your seat, you wait your turn, assuming there's no free space when you get back. I notice that there are always quite a few desks covered in books and notes with nobody studying at them. If any of them are away for more than twenty minutes (let's give them the benefit of the doubt), then it is perfectly within your rights to move their stuff to the side.

How do you think other people feel when they see unused desks that are basically reserved all day? It's not very fair on them seeing that desks are being vacated for long periods of time, yet they're expected not to use them because their occupant is off getting lunch. Just because you get up at the crack of dawn doesn't mean others should be dragged into this needless race. It's not their responsibility to accommodate you going off for lunch.

There's a reason Trinity Libraries don't allow reserving of spaces. It's because it doesn't create a positive study atmosphere, especially for those who don't want to be dragged into a race to see who can get to the library the earliest. It's because study space not being used creates resentment among those who actually do want to study. Study in the library is about personal learning in a calm and quiet, not competing for spots and flagging territory.

Once again, reserving of seats is very much against the spirit and purpose of a library and only benefits a minority who arrive at 9am, excluding people who actually have other stuff to do during the day. If you arrive early, you're perfectly entitled to study in that space. However, once you leave it for an extended period of time, that's when you have to let others use it, and why you should be entitled to keep a space you're not using for the guts of an hour is something you haven't shown. It's not a question of first-come-first-served, it's a question of manners and decency and I believe it's only fair to give up your spot when you leave for any longer than fifteen minutes.

That's cool man, you keep thinking that, but I'll keep leaving my stuff at my desk when I go for lunch like every single other person does (bar you).

delta720

delta720 wrote: »

That's cool man, you keep thinking that, but I'll keep leaving my stuff at my desk when I go for lunch like every single other person does (bar you).

Oh, well if everybody's doing it then it must be fair...

If everybody was fair and took their stuff with them when they went for lunch, there'd be far more chance of there being free seats after that lunch. Obviously there wont be any free spaces if people are hording them like collectables.

Lets say someone gets up twice a day for food, for an hour, plus another hour for toilet breaks and getting books. That's 3 hours. Multiply that by how many study spaces there are in the whole of the college. Bearing in mind some people would be happy to study 3 hours a day, imagine how many more people would get a chance to study. You'd most likely get that after lunch space too.

Lisandro

delta720 wrote: »

That's cool man, you keep thinking that, but I'll keep leaving my stuff at my desk when I go for lunch like every single other person does (bar you).

Interesting that you couldn't prove me wrong through rational and logical argumentation. I think that tells us all we need to know.

By the way, I'd just like to point out that you are not in a majority. Most people keep their breaks to reasonable time frames.

The fact that so many people are complaining about this very much suggests that quite a sizable proportion of students disapprove of reserving library seats.

I'll end it there. I've made my views on this clear.

delta720

true-or-false wrote: »

Oh, well if everybody's doing it then it must be fair...

If everybody was fair and took their stuff with them when they went for lunch, there'd be far more chance of there being free seats after that lunch. Obviously there wont be any free spaces if people are hording them like collectables.

Lets say someone gets up twice a day for food, for an hour, plus another hour for toilet breaks and getting books. That's 3 hours. Multiply that by how many study spaces there are in the whole of the college. Bearing in mind some people would be happy to study 3 hours a day, imagine how many more people would get a chance to study. You'd most likely get that after lunch space too.

So everyone should get a chance to study for some of the day instead of some studying for all of the day? If there's more people then seats and people take there stuff with them for lunch they won't get a seat when they come back simple as. They'll have to waste a few hours waiting for a seat. I think it's fair to someone to claim a spot for the day as long as they're there for the most of the day. I don't think it's fair someone strolling in at 12 or 1 and taking someones seat cause they're on lunch, even though they are planning on studying for the rest of the day, that means people who live locally can just sleep in and then take someones seat at lunch, while the person whos seat has just been taken has traveled to Dublin specifically to study in the library but has just had their seat robbed and now has to either go home or waste time waiting for a seat.

It's all irrelevant anyway cause people leave their stuff for lunch and nobody takes their seat, at least in the 4 years I've been here it only happened me once.

Lisandro wrote: »

Interesting that you couldn't prove me wrong through rational and logical argumentation. I think that tells us all we need to know.

By the way, I'd just like to point out that you are not in a majority. Most people keep their breaks to reasonable time frames.

The fact that so many people are complaining about this very much suggests that quite a sizable proportion of students disapprove of reserving library seats.

I'll end it there. I've made my views on this clear.

I couldn't prove you wrong?? What, is this some sort of intelligence trip for you? I think an hour for lunch is a reasonable time frame. And I disagree with people leaving their stuff overnight or people who leave their stuff in the library in the morning then disappear for half the day. My point has been that its reasonable for people to go for lunch and short breaks and expect to have their seat there when they come back, like almost everyone in the library does??

2 more exams and I'm out of here anyway!! :D

Mark200

delta720 wrote: »

So everyone should get a chance to study for some of the day instead of some studying for all of the day? If there's more people then seats and people take there stuff with them for lunch they won't get a seat when they come back simple as.

There's probably not more people than seats if people weren't able to keep stuff on their space for more than 15 minutes.

bradyle

In fairness if you go for lunch at 1 half an hour wont be long enough to eat and get back people should be entitled to take breaks and still be able to keep there seat...im sorry but everyone knows that the libraries during exam time fill up early so if ya want a seat badly come in early like everyone else

Lisandro

delta720 wrote: »

I couldn't prove you wrong?? What, is this some sort of intelligence trip for you? I think an hour for lunch is a reasonable time frame. And I disagree with people leaving their stuff overnight or people who leave their stuff in the library in the morning then disappear for half the day. My point has been that its reasonable for people to go for lunch and short breaks and expect to have their seat there when they come back, like almost everyone in the library does??

2 more exams and I'm out of here anyway!! :D

Eh, no, because you completely dodged all my arguments and acted as if I'm somehow the only person who thinks these things.

I'm pretty certain the library is there to serve the student body of Trinity College, not just those who get in 9am.

1. Under that which you argue, you're entitled to have your place for the whole day if you have a few hour-long breaks. What happens then is that the library benefits a small subset who place their flag in the spot for the entire day. This means very few slots for people not in for the long haul. We haven't seen a reason why these long-haul students deserve preference.

This means that people who arrive in at 12pm pretty much don't get a look-in because every spot is reserved. That's unfair, causes resentment, is unproductive for the library, leaves people waiting on unccupied spots and means it is much less open as a study space.

2. When you leave to get lunch, other people who've been left waiting get a chance to get a good chunk of study done. Unsurprisngly, they'll be off for food after a few hours too. If you can stay in from 9am-10pm with only 15 minute breaks, then fairplay, but seriously, do you really need all that time at someone else's expense?

The individual gets less (but still substantial) study time, but more people benefit from the library, and nobody gets annoyed because of not being able to use unused study spaces. That's fair and everybody gets a good chance - that in my opinion is what a library should be.

Can you explain why number two is more unfair than the number one?

ohthebaby

delta720 wrote: »

So everyone should get a chance to study for some of the day instead of some studying for all of the day? If there's more people then seats and people take there stuff with them for lunch they won't get a seat when they come back simple as. They'll have to waste a few hours waiting for a seat. I think it's fair to someone to claim a spot for the day as long as they're there for the most of the day. I don't think it's fair someone strolling in at 12 or 1 and taking someones seat cause they're on lunch, even though they are planning on studying for the rest of the day, that means people who live locally can just sleep in and then take someones seat at lunch, while the person whos seat has just been taken has traveled to Dublin specifically to study in the library but has just had their seat robbed and now has to either go home or waste time waiting for a seat.

It's all irrelevant anyway cause people leave their stuff for lunch and nobody takes their seat, at least in the 4 years I've been here it only happened me once.

Yeah that's what everyone else has to do when they come in a bit later in the day and find all the seats covered in books and jackets and nobody sitting at them.

I really don't see why somebody in at 9am should get their seat reserved for the whole day. Wow you got up early, hurrah. If I come in at 2pm and am informed that a seat has been vacant for x amount of time (obviously longer than like 30 minutes) then I'm perfectly entitled to take it and wouldn't have any qualms in doing so. I want to study there and then. I don't abuse the system in busy times so I wouldn't feel bad about moving someone's stuff at all.

bradyle

Lisandro wrote: »

Eh, no, because you completely dodged all my arguments and acted as if I'm somehow the only person who thinks these things.

I'm pretty certain the library is there to serve the student body of Trinity College, not just those who get in 9am.

1. Under that which you argue, you're entitled to have your place for the whole day if you have a few hour-long breaks. What happens then is that the library benefits a small subset who place their flag in the spot for the entire day. This means very few slots for people not in for the long haul. We haven't seen a reason why these long-haul students deserve preference.

This means that people who arrive in at 12pm pretty much don't get a look-in because every spot is reserved. That's unfair, causes resentment, is unproductive for the library, leaves people waiting on unccupied spots and means it is much less open as a study space.

2. When you leave to get lunch, other people who've been left waiting get a chance to get a good chunk of study done. Unsurprisngly, they'll be off for food after a few hours too. If you can stay in from 9am-10pm with only 15 minute breaks, then fairplay, but seriously, do you really need all that time at someone else's expense?

The individual gets less (but still substantial) study time, but more people benefit from the library, and nobody gets annoyed because of not being able to use unused study spaces. That's fair and everybody gets a good chance - that in my opinion is what a library should be.

Can you explain why number two is more unfair than the number one?

The person deserves it more because they bothered their arse getting up to come in and not sleep through the morning and wander in when they feel like it. Me and the others that bother to get up would like to be able to come in when ever we want and get a seat but the fact is the only way to guarantee a seat is coming in early and if youre gonna do that you deserve to keep that seat the whole day as long as you dont take the piss with breaks and in my opinion and most peoples opinion hafl an hour is not enough for a lunch break

ohthebaby

bradyle wrote: »

The person deserves it more because they bothered their arse getting up to come in and not sleep through the morning and wander in when they feel like it. Me and the others that bother to get up would like to be able to come in when ever we want and get a seat but the fact is the only way to guarantee a seat is coming in early and if youre gonna do that you deserve to keep that seat the whole day as long as you dont take the piss with breaks and in my opinion and most peoples opinion hafl an hour is not enough for a lunch break

It's not a race. Why should people get rewarded for getting up early? Maybe some people can't afford get up early because they've been working the previous evening or maybe because they study better later in the day as opposed to first thing in the morning? The system you're supporting is a very childish and selfish one imo.

And half an hour is more than enough time for lunch.

Raedwald

Lisandro wrote: »

Eh, no, because you completely dodged all my arguments and acted as if I'm somehow the only person who thinks these things.

I'm pretty certain the library is there to serve the student body of Trinity College, not just those who get in 9am.

1. Under that which you argue, you're entitled to have your place for the whole day if you have a few hour-long breaks. What happens then is that the library benefits a small subset who place their flag in the spot for the entire day. This means very few slots for people not in for the long haul. We haven't seen a reason why these long-haul students deserve preference.

This means that people who arrive in at 12pm pretty much don't get a look-in because every spot is reserved. That's unfair, causes resentment, is unproductive for the library, leaves people waiting on unccupied spots and means it is much less open as a study space.

2. When you leave to get lunch, other people who've been left waiting get a chance to get a good chunk of study done. Unsurprisngly, they'll be off for food after a few hours too. If you can stay in from 9am-10pm with only 15 minute breaks, then fairplay, but seriously, do you really need all that time at someone else's expense?

The individual gets less (but still substantial) study time, but more people benefit from the library, and nobody gets annoyed because of not being able to use unused study spaces. That's fair and everybody gets a good chance - that in my opinion is what a library should be.

Can you explain why number two is more unfair than the number one?

Lisandro your views are all well and good but that is not how the library operates even if it is contrary to the regulations.

Students who come in at nine during the exam period generally take the best seats ie those with plug sockets. Most have the same seat for the entire day and come and go as they please.

I have never seen people come and take other people's stuff so they can have the desk.

However the 24 hr room is a different matter and i would be against people reserving seats all day and night.

Lisandro

bradyle wrote: »

The person deserves it more because they bothered their arse getting up to come in and not sleep through the morning and wander in when they feel like it. Me and the others that bother to get up would like to be able to come in when ever we want and get a seat but the fact is the only way to guarantee a seat is coming in early and if youre gonna do that you deserve to keep that seat the whole day as long as you dont take the piss with breaks and in my opinion and most peoples opinion hafl an hour is not enough for a lunch break

No they don't. They deserve their spot for as long as they are sitting in it. They do not deserve to hold onto it at other peoples' opportunity cost when they vacate it. These people get up early by their own accord, they want to do work, which is great, but they still have to respect the rules like everyone else, and they're rules that exist for the benefit of all students across the campus, not a select minority.

If this debate were about students arriving at 9am and hogging a desk for an entire 13-hour stretch with short breaks(!), then I would totally agree with you, they deserve the spot because they've claimed it and are actively using it. Them deserving to have places reserved for them during lunch is like me deserving to have my place at a supermarket carpark reserved while I drive off to retrieve my wallet, which I left at the zoo/the park/home/whereever and returning an hour later. It's totally unfair on the people who have to be inconvenienced to accomdate you.

That said, I acknowledge that lunch takes quite a while, but I still assert that we shouldn't expect our places to be reserved for us when we return.

Raedwald wrote: »

Lisandro your views are all well and good but that is not how the library operates even if it is contrary to the regulations.

Students who come in at nine during the exam period generally take the best seats ie those with plug sockets. Most have the same seat for the entire day and come and go as they please.

I have never seen people come and take other people's stuff so they can have the desk.

However the 24 hr room is a different matter and i would be against people reserving seats all day and night.

It is unfortunate that the library works this way and doesn't enforce its own rules, because students are put at a disadvantage for not getting up at the crack of dawn and reserving their seat for the day. It's an expectation nobody should have to fulfill if they want to study around exam time.

To be honest, I don't really mind this around term time because there are normally plenty of seats, but around exam time, it's quite unfair.

Noo

I am so glad I never studied in libraries. I just cant see the appeal of it and how anyone gets anything done. All this getting up super early travelling into college only to have to wait for a free space to study in a room crowded with other students. From posts here and from my experience of classmates in college the whole library situation around exam time seems unnecessarily stressful!

I always studied at home, junior cert, leaving cert, TCD exams, everything. You get a nice room all to yourself, tons of room for all your notes and crap, you're always guaranteed a seat, you dont even have to get dressed, you can go for tea breaks whenever you want without the fear of someone taking your seat, you can have ALL your notes together...i'd like to see someone haul in a years supply of notes to the library only to realise theyve forgotten something, its so calming and stressfree.

Now i know not everyone has the option of studying at home but a lot of people do, i had many classmates who had their own room and everything handy at home but chose to put themselves through this library s**t, "Oh i just cant concentrate at home". A load of bull, if you want to study you will study, if you are easily distracted at home then you'll just come into college and get distracted on the internet, i never accepted that excuse, they'll just feel less guilty if they procrastinate in a library rather than at home.

Oh ive wanted to do that rant for years!

Mark200

I procrastinate too much at home, but I don't (as much) in the library... it's different being at home because you're far more comfortable doing whatever you want, rather than in a study environment like a library (even if people around you are annoying). I don't procrastinate too much on the internet since I know everyone sitting around me can see what I'm doing.

Also, having to get up early to get a seat is a good motivation to get up early to study.