.22 magnum or hornet

Dupont

was looking at rifles today and was wondering what i should go for,will be mostly foxes and long range magpies and crows,and the odd rabbit

bunny shooter

Dupont wrote: »

was looking at rifles today and was wondering what i should go for,will be mostly foxes and long range magpies and crows,and the odd rabbit

As it's mostly foxes out of those two I'd say hornet BUT ammo for a .204 is not a lot dearer

It wasn't me!

Hornet sounds like the answer there.

Glensman

The Hornet is a thing of the past go .223...
Does everything and more and has cheaper ammo, better ammo availability and selection of rifles.

ormondprop

i'd pick neither but if i had to i'd go for hornet, a magnum or hmr will be cheaper to run but are mainly rabbit and corvid guns, i just sold my hornet to extend my range for long range mags and greys, hornet is good to about 180 on a fox and 220 yards on rabbits and crows but drops very quick after that and what do you class as long range, if your talking over 170 yards you'd be better of with .204 or 223, 223 ammo can be got nearly as cheap as hornet ammo but is a lot more bang for buck, .204 is king at the moment for long range small vermin as its so fast and flat but their is no cheap ammo like you can get for the .223 but is about the same price for premium ammo

sadim

good advice

Dupont

Glensman wrote: »

The Hornet is a thing of the past go .223...
Does everything and more and has cheaper ammo, better ammo availability and selection of rifles.

this would be my first fifle would i get liensce for.223??

what would 2nd hand .223 cost,he said amo for .22hornet is 36 a box

Dupont

ormondprop wrote: »

i'd pick neither but if i had to i'd go for hornet, a magnum or hmr will be cheaper to run but are mainly rabbit and corvid guns, i just sold my hornet to extend my range for long range mags and greys, hornet is good to about 180 on a fox and 220 yards on rabbits and crows but drops very quick after that and what do you class as long range, if your talking over 170 yards you'd be better of with .204 or 223, 223 ammo can be got nearly as cheap as hornet ammo but is a lot more bang for buck, .204 is king at the moment for long range small vermin as its so fast and flat but their is no cheap ammo like you can get for the .223 but is about the same price for premium ammo

is a hmr a hornet? long range would be 150-200yds, there is plenty of hills around here wich offer good backstop and the fields mostly small so would only offer that range on a shot

garv123

Dupont wrote: »

is a hmr a hornet? long range would be 150-200yds, there is plenty of hills around here wich offer good backstop and the fields mostly small so would only offer that range on a shot

a hmr is a .17 magnum rimfire. its a slimmed down .22(wmr)magnum rimfire. a hornet is a center fire rifle

also id recommend learning to walk before you run. unless you have alot of experience shooting rifles before, 200 yards isnt an easy shot. just because people on here make it sound easy done mean it is. ive been using a .22 magnum alot and i wouldnt have a hope of hitting a barn door at 200 yards.

declan1980

if it's your first rifle licence, then a .204 would be easier to licence than a .223, simply because most supers just look at the number and say "a .204, thats smaller than a .223 so it must be less powerful"

Tackleberrywho

garv123 wrote: »

a hmr is a .17 magnum rimfire. its a slimmed down .22(wmr)magnum rimfire. a hornet is a center fire rifle

also id recommend learning to walk before you run. unless you have alot of experience shooting rifles before, 200 yards isnt an easy shot. just because people on here make it sound easy done mean it is. ive been using a .22 magnum alot and i wouldnt have a hope of hitting a barn door at 200 yards.

Buy a .223 Garv, Problem Solved
200 yard Zero, 1.1" high @100 Point and shoot at fox out to 200

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-53-gr-V-MAX-Superformance/

Trajectory (inches)
MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 1.10 0.00 -5.60 -16.90 -35.60

You'd never look twice at a Magnum again

I find shoot 200 easy, out past that it starts to get challenging to hit a bunny, especially after 300 as range estimation has to be precise to get a proper hold over

Longranger

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Buy a .223 Garv, Problem Solved
200 yard Zero, 1.1" high @100 Point and shoot at fox out to 200

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-53-gr-V-MAX-Superformance/

Trajectory (inches)
MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 1.10 0.00 -5.60 -16.90 -35.60

You'd never look twice at a Magnum again

I find shoot 200 easy, out past that it starts to get challenging to hit a bunny, especially after 300 as range estimation has to be precise to get a proper hold over

.223 all the way! If it doesn't do it,it aint worth doing:)

garv123

Ah tis alot easier to hit things at that range with the bigger caliber. ok my shot isnt that bad with it,:rolleyes: but im just pointing out that a rimfire at that range will take serious practice to no the drop since 20 yards mistake in judging range could make it a miss or injure the animal and wind will be another huge factor with a rimfire.


ok ok, my shot is really that bad:rolleyes:

Tackleberrywho

garv123 wrote: »

Ah tis alot easier to hit things at that range with the bigger caliber. ok my shot isnt that bad with it,:rolleyes: but im just pointing out that a rimfire at that range will take serious practice to no the drop since 20 yards mistake in judging range could make it a miss or injure the animal and wind will be another huge factor with a rimfire.


ok ok, my shot is really that bad:rolleyes:

Technically the calibre is the same .224
Heavier grain maybe and a better BC and speed for flatter traj.

for a first time foxer they are the Ultimate for Bang for Buck.

Hundreds of Foxes are shot every year here with Federal €14 a box of 20 which is quite reasonable.

Longranger

garv123 wrote: »

Ah tis alot easier to hit things at that range with the bigger caliber. ok my shot isnt that bad with it,:rolleyes: but im just pointing out that a rimfire at that range will take serious practice to no the drop since 20 yards mistake in judging range could make it a miss or injure the animal and wind will be another huge factor with a rimfire.


ok ok, my shot is really that bad:rolleyes:

Don't knock yourself garv,you're probably a better shot than you think:) When I first picked up a gun I made Elmer Fudd look like Annie Oakley! It's amazing what a few hundred rounds and the right advice can do:) practice practice practice buddy!

Dupont

garv123 wrote: »

a hmr is a .17 magnum rimfire. its a slimmed down .22(wmr)magnum rimfire. a hornet is a center fire rifle

also id recommend learning to walk before you run. unless you have alot of experience shooting rifles before, 200 yards isnt an easy shot. just because people on here make it sound easy done mean it is. ive been using a .22 magnum alot and i wouldnt have a hope of hitting a barn door at 200 yards.

i was thinking about going for the hornet and keeping shots under 100 yds until im well used to it then increasing.theyre is virtually no one around here lamping so i can call foxes in close.

garv123

thats your best option. the hornet would be better for foxes at longer ranges. you could also consider like everyone here is recommending. cheap ammo can be got for it which does a good job on foxes.

you could pump boxes of the cheap ammo into paper too to improve your shot.
crows and mags are difficult to hit at 100 yards not to mind 200. they keep moving. so the bigger caliber will also suit you because you dont have to be worried as much about wind or drop.

you shouldnt have much problem getting a licence for a 223 if you have good reason for it. and you do. shooting foxes. it depends on your super. every part of the county will differ. as i said before one of my friends got a .243 licence as his first gun with out and rifle safety course.

Dupont

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Buy a .223 Garv, Problem Solved
200 yard Zero, 1.1" high @100 Point and shoot at fox out to 200

http://www.hornady.com/store/223-Rem-53-gr-V-MAX-Superformance/

Trajectory (inches)
MUZZLE 100 200 300 400 500
-1.50 1.10 0.00 -5.60 -16.90 -35.60

You'd never look twice at a Magnum again

I find shoot 200 easy, out past that it starts to get challenging to hit a bunny, especially after 300 as range estimation has to be precise to get a proper hold over

i dont know about a .223 id say theyre expensive to feed and buy??,i also would like to start lower calibre and then when i have good experience i could move to a .223 then if i needed

Dupont

garv123 wrote: »

thats your best option. the hornet would be better for foxes at longer ranges. you could also consider like everyone here is recommending. cheap ammo can be got for it which does a good job on foxes.

you could pump boxes of the cheap ammo into paper too to improve your shot.

is anyone here using a hornet and know what the cheapest ammo you can get is and what a decent hunting round would cost?

pugw

Dupont wrote: »

i dont know about a .223 id say theyre expensive to feed and buy??,i also would like to start lower calibre and then when i have good experience i could move to a .223 then if i needed

Its the other way around you can get dirt cheap .223 ammo €10 for 20 that you could use for practicing then get the american eagle hollow points @ € 15 for when your going lamping! There is no such cheap ammo for the hornet its all at least a euro a bullet! This on top of the fact it doesnt perform as well as the .223 which shoots flatter and at longer ranges! Buy once and buy right because its hard enough to trade a gun at the moment which means you either sell it for nothing or get stuck with it! Plenty of s/h .223s out there try and get a nice cz or something shouldnt be too expensive!

Dupont

is there much of a crack off a.223 compared to a hornet, and would somone with a lience for a .22lr be able to subsistute it for a .22 hornet

Tackleberrywho

Dupont wrote: »

is there much of a crack off a.223 compared to a hornet, and would somone with a lience for a .22lr be able to subsistute it for a .22 hornet

.223 or Hornet you are best off with a Moderator

I swapped a .22lr for a .223 many others did same, some even licenced separately and kept .22lr.

You'd pick up a mod as part of a good S/H deal if you keep your eyes open

(God, I really should be studying )

fitzy700

223 all the way my friend there a lot easyer on the pocket to feed them
and a lot more powerful then the hornet,it;s a no brainer

cavan shooter

I had a 22 magnum and 2 years ago traded it for a ruger in hornet. I shoot all my foxes with the hornet now out to 200 yards, but normal ranges at night is no more than 180. Greys and crows 200 - 220.

I like the hornet it works for me there is something classy about the outdated shape of the cartridge, I said before if I had the money I would love one in a rolling block configuration.

I have a T4 mod, I dont use it the rapport is very quiet compared to a 223 or 204 and not much greater than the magnum.

I feed the ruger Hornady rounds at €22 a box, I have also got some remingtons which cost me €38 for 50.

The 35grn is faster and flatter but I find that holding power is better with the 45 grn round.

A lot of people say that the hornet is too expensive to run, yes you can get cheap 223 rounds but the way i look at it is simple, €50 a year on ammo for the hornet is cheap compared to membership of a golf club and since id spend €500 on shells for clays its about perspective.

If I was to buy another gun itr would be a 204, very flat shooting balistics wise eats a 223.

bunny shooter

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/general-rifle/43505-204-ruger-vs-223-remington.html

Have a read here .......... 223, 204 & even 22 Hornet

BELOWaverageIQ

bunny shooter wrote: »

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/general-rifle/43505-204-ruger-vs-223-remington.html

Have a read here .......... 223, 204 & even 22 Hornet

Sorry Bunny, I lost interest after I read about the guy buying his rifles in accordance with which movies they appeared in :rolleyes::D:D:D

bunny shooter

BELOWaverageIQ wrote: »

Sorry Bunny, I lost interest after I read about the guy buying his rifles in accordance with which movies they appeared in :rolleyes::D:D:D

I know it's tough going but some decent replies in there

Kind of place Tacwho would feel at home I thought :P

Tackleberrywho

bunny shooter wrote: »

I know it's tough going but some decent replies in there

Kind of place Tacwho would feel at home I thought :P

More a place for BS,

Any good reports of .204 refer to reloads <case closed>

For a young fella starting out a .223 is a no-brainer. Can be run for €10 a box 20 for wolf; and is plenty good for a fox.

Why limit your self to a rifle with only €26 a box ammo??

In regards to the OP, a hornet would be selling himself short, and leaving him with a rifle that would be very hard sell/trade.

We still have not seen Bunny's groups or Fox kills with his Magic .204.

If I had a new rifle I'd be out with it every evening after bunnies !!

bunny shooter

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

More a place for BS

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Any good reports of .204 refer to reloads <case closed>

No they don't. I don't use reloads :P

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

For a young fella starting out a .223 is a no-brainer. Can be run for €10 a box 20 for wolf; and is plenty good for a fox.

For a young fella starting out I'd recommend a .22lr

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Why limit your self to a rifle with only €26 a box ammo??

'Cause it's the mutts gonads :cool:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

In regards to the OP, a hornet would be selling himself short, and leaving him with a rifle that would be very hard sell/trade.

Hornet is a brilliant and under-rated round IMVHO. If reloading does come in here I'd nearly go back to one :eek:

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

We still have not seen Bunny's groups or Fox kills with his Magic .204.

Grasshopper............seek and ye shall see :P

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If I had a new rifle I'd be out with it every evening after bunnies !!

That's what I'm doing with my lovely Sako Finnfire in .22lr

Fox season for me starts again in early August so be patient

It wasn't me!

cavan shooter wrote: »

I like the hornet it works for me there is something classy about the outdated shape of the cartridge.

See, this is it for me. Someone said earlier that it's a thing of the past, and I have to say, I really hope not. It's a great old cartridge with a great history which I hope will still be used long into the future. It's mild on the ears and has negligible recoil. It doesn't obliterate rabbits like the hotter .22 centrefires and the like do either, so it's a viable dual purpose round really. I'm not a fan of moderators, so I like moderate cartridges that don't stun you so badly you can't get back on target quickly with them. I think it's very underrated because people don't think of it in terms of what it really does so very well and ask it to do things beyond its design parameters, and, fundamentally, I like that it's old, and a bit outdated, but it's a really great cartridge, and one I'd love to have in my own collection.

Glensman

It wasn't me! wrote: »

See, this is it for me. Someone said earlier that it's a thing of the past, and I have to say, I really hope not. It's a great old cartridge with a great history which I hope will still be used long into the future. It's mild on the ears and has negligible recoil. It doesn't obliterate rabbits like the hotter .22 centrefires and the like do either, so it's a viable dual purpose round really. I'm not a fan of moderators, so I like moderate cartridges that don't stun you so badly you can't get back on target quickly with them. I think it's very underrated because people don't think of it in terms of what it really does so very well and ask it to do things beyond its design parameters, and, fundamentally, I like that it's old, and a bit outdated, but it's a really great cartridge, and one I'd love to have in my own collection.

I'm a practical person... The .223 simply is the better catridge and is cheaper to run.
I know the hornet has a following and is a great cartridge and I agree with what is said above. But the .223 is def superior and is cheaper to run, has better ammo availability, better selection of factory rifles...

It wasn't me!

Glensman wrote: »

I'm a practical person... The .223 simply is the better catridge and is cheaper to run.
I know the hornet has a following and is a great cartridge and I agree with what is said above. But the .223 is def superior and is cheaper to run, has better ammo availability, better selection of factory rifles...

Superior for some things, but the hornet still has a place as well I think. The .223 is certainly an easier cartridge to use if your game is knocking foxes at 250 yards under the lamp, no argument there, but as a mooch about rifle, where you might be knocking off crows or foxes and might pop the odd bunny while you're out for the pot? The hornet doesn't so obliterate the animals that all that isn't feasible. Certainly in that case, I think it's better than a .223, as well as being just a great classic.

Tackleberrywho

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Superior for some things, but the hornet still has a place as well I think. The .223 is certainly an easier cartridge to use if your game is knocking foxes at 250 yards under the lamp, no argument there, but as a mooch about rifle, where you might be knocking off crows or foxes and might pop the odd bunny while you're out for the pot? The hornet doesn't so obliterate the animals that all that isn't feasible. Certainly in that case, I think it's better than a .223, as well as being just a great classic.

A hornet does Mush a rabbit if shot in the body, so too will a .22lr with hyper Velocity of .17hmr

If you want rabbits for the pot, shoot in the head; Simples
And you are more likely to hit in the head if you use a .223 than a Hornet

It wasn't me!

I dunno, I've seen rabbits shot with 45 gr bullets (think they were soft points) in the .22 hornet through the shoulders and while the front was fairly jellied up, the eating bits were grand and the rabbit wasn't spread over half a county either (Shot one last year for crow bait with the .25 and the landscape looked like a rorschach test. No fear of the crows not finding it!) Now, to be fair, I've seen videos of lighter bullets blowing shíte out of them too, but I think with an appropriate bullet the hornet can really do it all. No flies on it for accuracy either, despite widespread misconceptions. It won't do 300 yard bunnies in normal hands, but if you're pretty much and pot shooter and kill vermin inside about 180, then I think it's a very handy, mild mannered gun for that. Besides, as I said, I don't like mods, so the nice, quiet hornet is a good one for me.

meathstevie

The hornet has one major advantage over a .223 and that's it's noise when foxing on the outskirts of towns and relatively built up rural areas. You don't need a suppressor the size of a car exhaust to prevent you waking up everyone in a half mile radius. I use one unmoderated have found that the presence of a couple of hedge rows and tree lines do a grand job on dampening the noise to a very acceptable level for people in the area where I hunt.

Glensman

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I dunno, I've seen rabbits shot with 45 gr bullets (think they were soft points) in the .22 hornet through the shoulders and while the front was fairly jellied up, the eating bits were grand and the rabbit wasn't spread over half a county either (Shot one last year for crow bait with the .25 and the landscape looked like a rorschach test. No fear of the crows not finding it!) Now, to be fair, I've seen videos of lighter bullets blowing shíte out of them too, but I think with an appropriate bullet the hornet can really do it all. No flies on it for accuracy either, despite widespread misconceptions. It won't do 300 yard bunnies in normal hands, but if you're pretty much and pot shooter and kill vermin inside about 180, then I think it's a very handy, mild mannered gun for that. Besides, as I said, I don't like mods, so the nice, quiet hornet is a good one for me.

I also dislike mods; but there is no need for a mod on a .223...

rambo87

Last year i bought a .17 HMR for the same purpose/ reasons. It has servesd me very well and was a great calibre to practice and learn on! I shot at least every week with it for the year and have shot 200 cartridges with it... im still learning.. it is great for bunnies, crows and mags.. now im buying a .223 for the foxes.. for the range and killing power.. i reckon you will learn faster with a .22lr or 17hmr THEN buying a .223 or equivilant

It wasn't me!

Glensman wrote: »

I also dislike mods; but there is no need for a mod on a .223...

True, but when you shoot within hornet range and capabilities of everything, it's just more noise than you need for no extra gain. Don't get me wrong, I like the .223. It's a great round and far more versatile in terms of whacking vermin at distance, but for the mooch about sort of shooting I tend to find myself doing, where I'd have to put the effort into finding a long shot rather than stalking up, the hornet is as good for the foxing and the like, and handier for potting a few rabbits too. Just depends what sort of circumstances you find yourself in most often I guess.

dev110

From the two calibers mentioned I would choose the hornet but if you want to shoot further distances in the future you spend spend abit more and get a .204/.223.

I can't comment on the .204 as I have never seen one or any groups or kills made by them.

The hornet is like a 200 yard gun and ammo is around €25 for 20 35gr v-max but for an extra euro you can get 20 55gr v-max capable of shooting to 400 yards.

ormondprop

If you ever had a hornet you'd know how good they are, most people that knock them never had one, i love mine and for foxing i rarely found it lacking but i'm after changing now just so i can go for long range shots during the day, if i was to only have 1 rifle its what i'd use but i have a 22 for the bunnies so can afford to have something more powerful for foxes

nite owl

Dupont wrote: »

long range would be 150-200yds, there is plenty of hills around here wich offer good backstop and the fields mostly small so would only offer that range on a shot

definitely hornet over magnum

Dupont

took the plunge and put a depoist on a .22magnum. chose the mag over hornet as it will be used for crows and mags as well as the odd fox,cheaper to buy and run.man in shop said he would do great deal on 2nd hand .223 he said he would do it for 850:eek: after he helped me up off the floor i said the budget was less than half that. if i get the rifle bug i might even get somthing more powerfull when the lience is up for renewal;) there is a scope on it and when you twist a knob on top the crosshairs and lines under them to show drop,light up green or red, what the fcuk are they for

ArseLtd

Dupont wrote: »

took the plunge and put a depoist on a .22magnum. chose the mag over hornet as it will be used for crows and mags as well as the odd fox,cheaper to buy and run.man in shop said he would do great deal on 2nd hand .223 he said he would do it for 850:eek: after he helped me up off the floor i said the budget was less than half that. if i get the rifle bug i might even get somthing more powerfull when the lience is up for renewal;) there is a scope on it and when you twist a knob on top the crosshairs and lines under them to show drop,light up green or red, what the fcuk are they for

Ha, good choice. What make of 22 mag?

The scope lighting up is an illuminated reticule, its handy for night shooting to see the crosshairs easier. Don't leave it on overnight or it will run down the battery.

Dupont

ArseLtd wrote: »

Ha, good choice. What make of 22 mag?

The scope lighting up is an illuminated reticule, its handy for night shooting to see the crosshairs easier. Don't leave it on overnight or it will run down the battery.

its a wee anschutz, there is numbers at the end of the scope(nearest the barrell end,do you adjust these to match the distance of shot and there are numbers on the other end 1-8 i think

ArseLtd

Dupont wrote: »

its a wee anschutz, there is numbers at the end of the scope(nearest the barrell end,do you adjust these to match the distance of shot and there are numbers on the other end 1-8 i think

Oh anschutz, lovely. Nearest the barrel i'd say is the parralax setting. Set it at 50 and at 50 yards the cross hairs and the target will both be clear. Same if you set for 200 crosshairs and target will be clear. Numbers 1-8 on the end closest to your eye is the zoom, making the image bigger by 1x up to 8x

Dupont

ArseLtd wrote: »

Oh anschutz, lovely. Nearest the barrel i'd say is the parralax setting. Set it at 50 and at 50 yards the cross hairs and the target will both be clear. Same if you set for 200 crosshairs and target will be clear. Numbers 1-8 on the end closest to your eye is the zoom, making the image bigger by 1x up to 8x

thanks for that info.cant wait to get it,it will be like a handset on a new telly with all the numbers, now to start guessing distances

browning 12 bore

Dupont wrote: »

this would be my first fifle would i get liensce for.223??

what would 2nd hand .223 cost,he said amo for .22hornet is 36 a box

yes should be no prob getting licence as long as you have letter from a peace keeper in your area saying your able for hunting with 223 basically saying you are ok to handle the gun like also ammo for 223 is roughly 25 euro 223 would be the way to go now bear in mind the magnum nothing to be snift at either best of luck

Dupont

i rember there being debates here about a mod on a magnum. do they silence them at all. i have to get the fca form tomorrow,so when applying for liencse should i apply for mod in case i ever put one on? is it just a question on fca and can i apply even if i havent got one,does it cost extra to liencse

garv123

Dupont wrote: »

i rember there being debates here about a mod on a magnum. do they silence them at all. i have to get the fca form tomorrow,so when applying for liencse should i apply for mod in case i ever put one on? is it just a question on fca and can i apply even if i havent got one,does it cost extra to liencse

might aswel apply for one now whilst applying for it. save you the hassle if you want one again within the 3 years.

and if you apply for it later you MIGHT have to pay again. people on here say they got it for free but other say they had to pay.

deerhunter1

Glensman wrote: »

The Hornet is a thing of the past go .223...
Does everything and more and has cheaper ammo, better ammo availability and selection of rifles.

Agree 100%, hornet too expensive to run, 223 all the way

bunny shooter

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Agree 100%, hornet too expensive to run, 223 .204 Ruger all the way

Just fixed that for you