Biomedical science

Socorro

Hi,

I'm about to finish a Science degree and I'm unsure where to go next. I had planned on going on to PhD but really not sure if I want to go down that route anymore.

I had been looking at a Biomedical Science MSc in NUIG but I've since been told that this doesn't actually qualify you to work as a biomedical scientist in a hospital in Ireland. Is this true? Would a Biomedical Science MSc in the UK be any different?

Thanks.

Socorro,
Is qualifying to work as a Medical Scientist in hospital labs in Ireland what you actually want to do? What is your science degree in?

To qualify as a hospital (Bio)Medical scientist in Ireland you need to have a BSc. Biomedical science from either CIT/UCC or DIT Kevin St. GMIT now offer it also. These are the only degrees in the republic which make you elegible for membership of the Academy of Medical Laboratory Science (AMLS). I'm out of that scene a few years (early 2000s) but I remember at the time every second person I knew with a Science degree in Biochem/Microbiology/physiology wished they'd just done that course and have a straight-forward qualification for that profession/career like the Biomeds had. That time there were jobs galore in hospitals, that is not the case anymore with cutbacks/HSE moratorium on staff recruitment, like everything else !! :mad:

I cannot tell you what MSc Biomedical science in NUIG will lead to, however.

hats199

Hello,
To get a job as a Biomed you need to be eligible for membership to the Academy of med lab scientists. That eligibility is the standard the employers look for. So your best bet might be to email the Academy and see what their current entry requirements are:

http://www.amls.ie/

The only MScs that will allow membership to the academy are the ones from Coleraine and Cork, as far as i know. The Galway one definately doesn't. There used to be a process whereby someone from a general science degree could do a conversion-type training programme in a hospital and take exams to then get membership without doing a masters at all. I think they stopped that route though due to the excess of (jobless) biomeds already around. Again, the academy will let you know the exact story.

Good luck.

Socorro

Thanks for replies.

To be honest, I don't know what I actually want to do. My degree is in Neuroscience.
I remember considering the Biomedical science BSc in DIT when I was doing the CAO so that's what led me to consider the MSc. I thought it might be a good MSc to do to increase job prospects but maybe not.

Thanks anyway, I'll email the AMLS.

I would say having a MSc in Biomedical science in NUIG would probably be beneficial for getting a job in certain industries like biopharmaceuticals, it would boost the CV anyway along with your degree.

As for hospital medical scientists, Hats199 had it right that a number of years ago there was a programme for post-graduate trainee medical scientists in hospitals, and the AMLS had a list of approved degrees for entry, I think BSc. neuroscience was one of them, micro/biochem definitely were. There was an acute shortage of qualified biomed grads from the likes of DIT and UCC for the amount of jobs available at the time, unfortunately there are lots of jobless grads of that course now

Good luck with your decisions

Socorro

Thanks for your help.

Do you know, for an industry type job, would the MSc Biomedical Science be any more helpful than a MSc in something like Immunology?

I've probably left if too late to apply for any masters at this stage but it's always good to know anyway!

Muffy_IOU

Deleted User wrote: »

I would say having a MSc in Biomedical science in NUIG would probably be beneficial for getting a job in certain industries like biopharmaceuticals, it would boost the CV anyway along with your degree.

As for hospital medical scientists, Hats199 had it right that a number of years ago there was a programme for post-graduate trainee medical scientists in hospitals, and the AMLS had a list of approved degrees for entry, I think BSc. neuroscience was one of them, micro/biochem definitely were. There was an acute shortage of qualified biomed grads from the likes of DIT and UCC for the amount of jobs available at the time, unfortunately there are lots of jobless grads of that course now

Good luck with your decisions

Let's not exaggerate things. Doing an MSc Biomedical Science at NUIG will not get one a job any quicker than what you claim it does. I should know; I happened to study this course.

I do not want to mis-inform the op either but it will actually do quite little (in my experience). There are PHD students from NUIG who cannot even get work right now.

Jaafa

Muffy_IOU wrote: »

Let's not exaggerate things. Doing an MSc Biomedical Science at NUIG will not get one a job any quicker than what you claim it does. I should know; I happened to study this course.

I do not want to mis-inform the op either but it will actually do quite little (in my experience). There are PHD students from NUIG who cannot even get work right now.

Are you saying the course itself does not have good jobs prospects or that NUIG doesn't hold any advantage over other Uni's?

imported_guy

Jaafa wrote: »

Are you saying the course itself does not have good jobs prospects or that NUIG doesn't hold any advantage over other Uni's?

more than likely the latter, unless you go to harvard or ox-bridge or some other big name school you're pretty much in the same boat as other science graduates, if you tell someone in australia you're from galway they'll look at you like you're from mars.

AutismSpeaks

I think it all depends on what you want to do. After getting my undergrad, I knew I wanted to get my masters, but I wasn't sure what to do exactly. All I knew was that I wanted to help people. I did some research and found a program to study neuropsychology. We've been learning about everything from traumatic brain injuries to autism, and I can't wait to graduate and start helping patients. If you think this might be for you, check out my website, NeuropsychologyPrograms.com, to find the right school for you. Hope this helps. Good Luck!

scoob70

Deleted User wrote: »

Socorro,

To qualify as a hospital (Bio)Medical scientist in Ireland you need to have a BSc. Biomedical science from either CIT/UCC or DIT Kevin St. GMIT now offer it also. These are the only degrees in the republic which make you elegible for membership of the Academy of Medical Laboratory Science (AMLS).

I'm confused! I hoping to move over to an honors degree in medical biotechnology after completing a ordinary degree in Biomedical and I'm going to do it at IT Sligo which isn't one of the institutions you listed. Does this mean I can work anywhere with this qualification other than the hospitals then??

Dingle_berry

scoob70 wrote: »

I'm confused! I hoping to move over to an honors degree in medical biotechnology after completing a ordinary degree in Biomedical and I'm going to do it at IT Sligo which isn't one of the institutions you listed. Does this mean I can work anywhere with this qualification other than the hospitals then??

The posts above are partially correct. You must be eligible for membership of the AMLS to work as a biomedical scientist in any hospital in Ireland. That's a department of health rule. It's not just a standard applicants are measured against.
The easiest way to become eligible for membership is to get the honours BSc in biomedical science from UCC or DIT.
If you don't have these you must have studied a certain amount of all the core biomed subjects (biochemistry, haematology, transfusion, microbiology and Histopathology) and completed 9 months clinical placement in an accredited lab. DIT may offer the core subjects above as a CPD course. Clinical placement is up to you to find and you must complete an AMLS training log during it.
In short: get in contact with the AMLS if you want to try to get a job as a biomed.

In terms of other careers with a biomed degree, the biomed degree is very clinically orientated and broad (subject wise) compared to biochem/micro/genetics degrees. This is the reason UCC got involved, they wanted PhD students with broad bases. It's also good for sales and repp-ing jobs for obvious reasons.

AFAIK the cork MSc isn't being run anymore. DIT is the only MSc in the state recognised by the AMLS. A lot of non Dublin based biomeds do the university of ulster MSc though and have no trouble with the academy.

EDIT: though there are BSc and MSc courses in Galway, maynooth etc called "biomedical science" they do not meet the criteria for membership of the AMLS so they don't allow you to work in hospital labs.

scoob70

Dingle berry - thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post. I'm not really in a position to move about as I am studying as a mature student with a family so I have to stay in Sligo. But I've had it confirmed today by the college that I would not be able to work in hospitals in Ireland but working for the private sector would not be a problem. I have also learned that 300 grads a year try to get work in the hospitals here in Ireland, and due to all the cutbacks there's a lot of competition for few places. I believe the hours involve a lot of shift and weekend work at the hospitals as well but not so much in the private sector - which I would prefer. Thanks again for your reply.

Dingle_berry

scoob70 wrote: »

Dingle berry - thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post. I'm not really in a position to move about as I am studying as a mature student with a family so I have to stay in Sligo. But I've had it confirmed today by the college that I would not be able to work in hospitals in Ireland but working for the private sector would not be a problem. I have also learned that 300 grads a year try to get work in the hospitals here in Ireland, and due to all the cutbacks there's a lot of competition for few places. I believe the hours involve a lot of shift and weekend work at the hospitals as well but not so much in the private sector - which I would prefer. Thanks again for your reply.

You're welcome. It's nice to see people expressing an interest in the field rather than thinking the specimens disappear into a black hole or that doctors do it all!
Sorry but your source is wrong about the sift work/hours! Normal working hours are now 08:00 to 20:00 Monday to Friday for (almost) every lab. Between 20:00 and 08:00 and weekends there is cover in biochem, haem, transfusion and micro - depending on the hospital.
There are about 30 graduates a year from cork and I'd say 30 to 60 from DIT. I doubt that UU and immigrants amount to 210 biomeds per year. But yes, within the space of a decade the situation has completely reversed and finding work is tough.
Have a look around the university of ulster website or email someone from their biomed courses to ask if they do top up courses by distance education. Try Bristol as well. Though if you go this route you will have to keep a close eye on registration through CORU.

To give you a good idea of the course material you need to do and work we do i would suggest a series of textbooks called "fundamentals of biomedical Science" published by Oxford university press and endorsed by the IBMS. http://www.oup.com/uk/orc/bin/fbs/ free chapters are available to download as .pdf and some larger book stores like Hodges & figgs near Trinity college occasionally stock them if you want to flick through them.

I have no personal experience of private sector but if its sales or repping you're thinking of you will have large areas to cover (at least a province - maybe two) as well as visiting company HQ in Germany or where ever.

scoob70

Again Dingle berry you are a wealth of Knowledge on this subject, especially with regards to the distance learning top ups and the text books -thanx from a complete newbie . May I ask where you got your qualification and what it is you do?

Dingle_berry

scoob70 wrote: »

Again Dingle berry you are a wealth of Knowledge on this subject, especially with regards to the distance learning top ups and the text books -thanx from a complete newbie . May I ask where you got your qualification and what it is you do?

Surprisingly I am a Medical Scientist!
(Basic grade) Got my qualification through the cork colleges. Im working in histo but have worked in almost all other disciplines (except micro and bio). I've also done agency and locum work.
Always happy to help, not enough people know about us. If there's anything else feel free to ask or PM.

scoob70

Dingle_berry wrote: »

Surprisingly I am a Medical Scientist!
(Basic grade) Got my qualification through the cork colleges. Im working in histo but have worked in almost all other disciplines (except micro and bio). I've also done agency and locum work.
Always happy to help, not enough people know about us. If there's anything else feel free to ask or PM.

Well I've a fair way to go to catching up with you but I'm loving every min of it and wish I done it earlier in life. Do you enjoy what you're doing? Are you planning on doing a PhD? Do plan to do any work abroad? Sorry for all the questions

Dingle_berry

Yeah I do enjoy it. Lab work suits me personally and the field/area was what interested me in college. (Funnily enough after some TY work experience I "knew" I couldn't do a job as "boring" as med lab - but following available opportunities and my interests I ended up in it!). You don't directly interact with the patients, they generally don't know you exist but by doing your work well you can make a big difference to them.
I don't think I'd do a PhD. Doing an AMLS accredited taught MSc would be more beneficial to the career path. Though a lot of my classmates went into PhDs, are enjoying them and are doing well.
I don't have any plans to work abroad but it is something I'm curious about. I've heard things like in Oz you don't need a degree just a training course, any honours science degree qualifies you for a senior post and they are big into skin pathology for obvious reasons! In Japan they are "doctor-scientists" as they do an MD first then med lab science! In Canada it's state dependant but very regulated and can be difficult to translate an Irish qualification. UK is similar to Ireland but narrower focus of work - they use more lab aides and have bigger labs so they can afford more automation. All EU countries are moving towards transferable qualifications and so far the Irish primary qualification is the highest standard. This is all just as far as I know of course and I'm open to correction!

scoob70

Well glad to hear your enjoying the work because I have worked in lots of jobs in the past that have bored me to death like the civil service and its just been about picking up that pay check at the end of the day . But the stuff I'm learning everyday now is fascinating and exciting. Interesting what you said about Australia tho. We've dabbled with moving out there but wasn't sure if the Irish qualifications would be transferable (my husbands training to be a chemist ). Well I'll leave you alone now lol - but hope I can bug you some more at a later date as its nice to talk with someone with real life experience of this type of work. Thanx again.

another question

Hi guys,

Sorry to burst in on the thread. Have applied to do Medical Biotechnology in Sligo IT as a mature student, it's a 4 year hons level 8 course and I was really looking forward to getting started until I found this thread and saw that the course isn't accepted by the amls who up until an hour ago I didn't even know existed!

So am I correct in thinking that doing this course and qualifying as a biomedical scientist is now a waste of 4 years as I cannot work in any of the public hospitals?

I am in shock because UCC, GMIT, DIT are all on the list, yet the ONLY other level 8 BSc. hons in Medical Biotechnology in the country isn't on the list. Have they given a reason for this?

4 years is already a huge committment for me, I never thought that I would have to think about doing cpd or something like that to catch up to the rest of the countries level. It doesn't seem fair, does anyone know what the problem is?

scoob70

another question wrote: »

Hi guys,

Sorry to burst in on the thread. Have applied to do Medical Biotechnology in Sligo IT as a mature student, it's a 4 year hons level 8 course and I was really looking forward to getting started until I found this thread and saw that the course isn't accepted by the amls who up until an hour ago I didn't even know existed!

So am I correct in thinking that doing this course and qualifying as a biomedical scientist is now a waste of 4 years as I cannot work in any of the public hospitals?

I am in shock because UCC, GMIT, DIT are all on the list, yet the ONLY other level 8 BSc. hons in Medical Biotechnology in the country isn't on the list. Have they given a reason for this?

4 years is already a huge committment for me, I never thought that I would have to think about doing cpd or something like that to catch up to the rest of the countries level. It doesn't seem fair, does anyone know what the problem is?

I know I wish I'd known about the amls before choosing Sligo - but no it won't be waste of 4 years by any means. There really is lots of work in the private sectors and working in hospitals in other countries may not be a problem. You just can't work in Irish hospitals if you do the course at Sligo. The problem seems to be not all the biomed courses in the country contain the modules that you need to have completed to work in a hospitals here.

another question

scoob70 wrote: »

I know I wish I'd known about the amls before choosing Sligo - but no it won't be waste of 4 years by any means. There really is lots of work in the private sectors and working in hospitals in other countries may not be a problem. You just can't work in Irish hospitals if you do the course at Sligo. The problem seems to be not all the biomed courses in the country contain the modules that you need to have completed to work in a hospitals here.

Hi and thanks for the reply. What does private sectors mean? Like Abbott? I really don't want to have to leave Sligo, I was hoping there would be many opportunities for graduates of this degree in the likes of the hospital, Abbotts and any of the labs in Finisklin.

Are you finished the degree? What was the workload like and most importantly did you enjoy it?

I have emailed amls just to see if they will tell me if there is any way around this, such as studying the missing modules with them etc to let me work in the hospital labs.

scoob70

another question wrote: »

Hi and thanks for the reply. What does private sectors mean? Like Abbott? I really don't want to have to leave Sligo, I was hoping there would be many opportunities for graduates of this degree in the likes of the hospital, Abbotts and any of the labs in Finisklin.

Are you finished the degree? What was the workload like and most importantly did you enjoy it?

I have emailed amls just to see if they will tell me if there is any way around this, such as studying the missing modules with them etc to let me work in the hospital labs.

Private sector jobs, as oppose to the public sector, are jobs with companies that are not state controlled so yes the likes of Abbots and Stiefel Laboratories would come under this category. There's also the voluntary sector that covers all the charities like cancer research. I believe there are not many positions going in the hospitals here anyway now due to competition for places and cut backs. I'm in my first year and I'm loving it but the workload is a bit heavy and the days can be long (9am-9pm Mondays) because of late labs and you're in 4 days a week so it's a fairly intense course but if you put in some effort you'll be fine. If you've just come out of leaving cert - even better because you just go over a lot of old ground with the physics, chemistry and biology modules in the 1st semester. If your going all the way up to the 4th year (Biotechnology) then you'll have to do a work placement - which is great for experience. It's a very hands on course and in the labs you rarely share your equipment and get to do a lot of the experiments by yourself which is something I believe has been a bit of a problem with the universities. The staff are fantastic and very approachable and there's lots of opportunity for extra support with your studies esp if your say dyslexic. So in hindsight - yes I prob would of gone for one of the amls accredited courses as my first choice but now I am on this course I've made some great friends and the course is interesting and challenging so I'm still very happy overall . I know I will get work no problem as I am willing to move anywhere (in the world ) and I'm happy to do contract work or anything and as Dingle berry said the top ups my get me into hospital work later. Can you please let me know what the reply was from the amls when you get it? Would be interested to hear what they say. Thanks

Dingle_berry

another question wrote: »

Hi guys,

Sorry to burst in on the thread. Have applied to do Medical Biotechnology in Sligo IT as a mature student, it's a 4 year hons level 8 course and I was really looking forward to getting started until I found this thread and saw that the course isn't accepted by the amls who up until an hour ago I didn't even know existed!

So am I correct in thinking that doing this course and qualifying as a biomedical scientist is now a waste of 4 years as I cannot work in any of the public hospitals?

I am in shock because UCC, GMIT, DIT are all on the list, yet the ONLY other level 8 BSc. hons in Medical Biotechnology in the country isn't on the list. Have they given a reason for this?

4 years is already a huge committment for me, I never thought that I would have to think about doing cpd or something like that to catch up to the rest of the countries level. It doesn't seem fair, does anyone know what the problem is?

The level 8 honours degrees from UCC and DIT are the only ones recognised by the AMLS as they are the only ones that teach the required subjects. The two degrees are essentially pathology degrees. A biotech degree would cover different specialities. Just as a biochemistry degree wouldnt qualify you to work as a microbiologist without further training. A biotechnologist is not comparable to a biomedical scientist, a degree in biotechnology does not qualify you to be a biomedical scientist.

CPD is not for people with other qualifications to convert or top up their qualifications. It is what you do as a professional to stay up to date with changes in your field. Science, and other fields, are constantly changing so if you didn't bother with CPD over the course of your career your qualification(s) would become obsolete. The AMLS, as a professional body, offers a structured CPD course to members.

While the AMLS does have procedures/paths in place for people with other qualifications to convert to biomedical scientist, it is becoming harder to get. As a part of the conversion you would have to spend a year in an accredited hospital pathology lab. Which obviously poses its own difficulties.

If you really want to be a biomedical scientist the easiest path is to transfer to a biomedical science course. But research what a biomedical scientist does. Don't do the course if you faint at the sight of blood or are easily put off by bad smells. Do not do the course if you think you'll end up on CSI or something similar. This may sound patronising but there are people who do.

Just out of interest, Howcome two people have posted here about the Sligo IT biotech degree? Are Sligo IT claiming that it qualifies you to work as a biomedical scientist? Where have ye heard of biomedical scientists? And what is it about the job that attracts you?

another question

scoob70 wrote: »

I'm in my first year and I'm loving it but the workload is a bit heavy and the days can be long (9am-9pm Mondays) because of late labs and you're in 4 days a week so it's a fairly intense course but if you put in some effort you'll be fine. If you've just come out of leaving cert - even better because you just go over a lot of old ground with the physics, chemistry and biology modules in the 1st semester. If your going all the way up to the 4th year (Biotechnology) then you'll have to do a work placement - which is great for experience. Can you please let me know what the reply was from the amls when you get it? Would be interested to hear what they say. Thanks

Thanks a mill for all that info, it's a great help. I can't believe how heavy the workload is though for year 1, I'm working and was hoping to continue. 9-9 on Mondays ugh! At least 4 days a week isn't too bad, what are the hours like on the other 3 days apart from Mondays. I sent an email to the course director and he said the classroom hours are 22 per week, does that sound correct from your experience?

Haven't just come out of L.C. finished in 2007, going back as a mature student but they said because I studied all the science subjects for my l.c that they basically went back over it all again anyway.

With reference to the work placement, how much do you know about this already, have you a choice of what area you would like to do it in or what companies are on board etc (for example if one were to know what lab hours needed to be worked up for amls membership would a student have the choice to pick something that would relate to this?)

I will absolutely share their response when I get one, they replied to me yesterday asking for my number to discuss it with me but I will ask them for a response in writing too.

another question

Dingle_berry wrote: »

If you really want to be a biomedical scientist the easiest path is to transfer to a biomedical science course. But research what a biomedical scientist does. Don't do the course if you faint at the sight of blood or are easily put off by bad smells. Do not do the course if you think you'll end up on CSI or something similar. This may sound patronising but there are people who do.

Just out of interest, Howcome two people have posted here about the Sligo IT biotech degree? Are Sligo IT claiming that it qualifies you to work as a biomedical scientist? Where have ye heard of biomedical scientists? And what is it about the job that attracts you?

Thanks Dingle_Berry. I have the information on the course here if you would like to read it and see if you thnk it's possible in any way to qualify as a biomedical scientist from it. I haven't any particular basis for wanting that course in particular. I wanted to do a level 8 degree in Sligo, anywhere else is not an option for me, in a science related area. I have no interest in environmental so the only other two available through Sligo IT were Medical Biotechnology OR Pharmaceutical science with drug development, after further research on this one, I have decided that I prefer the subjects related to the Medical BioTech course.

I wanted to do a degree that will get me a good graduate entry poistion in either the likes of Abbott or a hospital lab. I was hoping in 4 years time things would have improved on the job front. I also know of 2 different people, both who did this course, one went straight from college into Abbott to work 8-4 mon-fri in the Microbiology dept. and the other went straight into a job in Sligo General Hospital's lab (she basically gets the chemotherapy treatments ready for patients and deals with their blood samples). This is what I hoping for, either situation a or b.

This is the info I have received on the course, from Sligo IT website and Qualifac/CAO:

This course provides graduates with cutting-edge skills in biomedical science and medical biotechnology that will make them highly employable within the biotechnology, biopharmaceutical and medical device industries. Key areas covered include DNA Technology and genetic engineering, Cell culture processing, analysis of biomolecules, tissue and regenerative engineering, microbiology and medical immunology and biovalidation.

Graduates can expect exciting and diverse careers within multi-national and indigenous Irish companies in sectors that are predicted to undergo rapid expansion over the next 10 years; working at the forefront of Medical Science technologies. Students who undertake this course will have the opportunity to complete an industrial placement subject to availability of places.

Biomedical science involves the study and application of science subjects such as biology, biochemistry and microbiology to the development of products and services that benefit mankind in areas including disease control, new drug development, medical device design and medical diagnosis.

Biomedical scientists study aspects of living organisms such as reproduction, growth and development to evolve medical treatments, prevent disease and promote health and well-being.
Medical technology, medical device manufacturing and biopharmaceutical companies are among the fastest growing disciplines in the life sciences sector in Irish industry at present. With the move towards a knowledge-driven economy, they are likely to remain at the forefront for the foreseeable future.

Our programme combine skills in biomedical science and medical biotechnology with an in-depth knowledge of legislation and regulation, and quality control systems for the respective industries. Graduates from these courses are uniquely placed to enter a variety of different positions in industry which enhances their overall employability.

Graduates typically find employment in scientific, operations and quality assurance/control positions within the biopharmaceutical, pharmaceutical, medical device or diagnostics industry sectors. Their work may involve the manufacture of medicines from living cells, development of implantable medical devices, immunodiagnostics, bioanalytics, process validation and process optimisation.

Graduates may also find employment more broadly within the healthcare sector and in areas of research and development. Recent graduates have pursued postgraduate studies in related specialised areas at Masters and PhD degree level.

The courses include a broad range of fundamental disciplines in biomedical science and biotechnology covering:

• Animal cell culture and cell culture processing
• Medical device technologies and manufacturing, Implant bio-compatibility
• Immunodiagnostics
• Biotechnology, protein biotechnology and protein purification
• Microbial biotechnology, microbiology and medical immunology
• Tissue engineering and regenerative medicine
• Quality systems and legislation, regulatory affairs, legislation and compliance
• Biopharmaceutical facilities and utilities
• Statistics and computing
• DNA Technology and genetic engineering
• Analysis of biomolecules
• Biovalidation

another question

With reference to my above post on the course information - it's the way they have said 'Biomedical Scientists study the aspects' etc in their course description that led me and the other Sligo IT poster here to believe that this is what we would qualify as in graduating from this degree. Do you think this is misleading if it's not the case?

another question

This is the reply I received from AMLS this morning:

"Thank you for your enquiry which I will forward to Mark Neville, Chair, Membership Committee.

Meanwhile, I can inform you that Council of the Academy are finalising work on a Non-Standard Pathway for candidates who seek Eligibility for AMLS Membership. It is planned to post this document on our website (www.amls.ie) by Monday, 18th February next.

The document will act as a guideline and will address course content, modules, ECT credits including clinical experience levels required to meet the criteria. It will also inform those who have non-standard qualifications to identify any deficits and provide, where possible, routes to meet the requirements for Eligibility. The document will also provide a pathway for those who do not have the required clinical placement/experience levels, provision of logbooks etc.

I hope this information is of help to you."

I will post any further replies here also as I get them.

Dingle_berry

Without knowing exactly what your friends job title or description is, I sincerely doubt that they work as a medical scientist. Medical scientists do not prepare, or work with, drugs like chemotherapy. That's a pharmacists job. Is your friend a pharmaceutical technician? Withregard to dealing with bloods, while medical scientists would analyse the blood and issue a result on it, it's the clinician that "deals" with the result etc.
Most medical labs are open 24/7 - I don't know of anyone working exclusively 8 to 4.
In short, I don't think it's a career as a medical scientist that you're after! Have a look at this http://mlsa.ie/careerinmedicalscience.html

From briefly reviewing the course info there is a lot of required subjects missing. The degree is aimed at industry or research and says so in the description. I don't think there's any misleading there.

The AMLS has published the new guidelines today: http://www.amls.ie/system/files/attachments/news/399/pathwaystomembershipoftheacademyofmedicallaboratoryscience2013.pdf

another question

The document referred to in my previous email, has just been posted to the website (www.amls.ie) , please follow the News link in the Homepage. - Email from AMLS this afternoon.

macflea

hi dingle berry,

it seems you might be the person to ask , as your replies are very informative . i have been trying to find out how to get into the pharmaceutical industry labs or labs in hospitals, avoiding sales . biomedical science sounds really interesting , i have a veterinary degree and rang cit cork about the masters in biochemical science , but was told that its not suitable for me and he couldnt give me any advice on what i could do , what a shame as i live quite close to cit. was looking at doing a masters in microbiology at surrey , uk via distant learning. but not really sure . all i have learned so far that if i want to get in to this field i will have basically to start from scratch again with a biomedical science degree which i cant do as i have a family to support .

anythoughs would be helpful , off now to go hoof paring for the afternoon, doing lab work , tests etc sound more stimulating
cheers

Dingle_berry

Hi Macflea,
Yeah biomedical science sounds interesting, it's even interesting to work in on occasion!

What kind of veterinary degree do you have? Did you study things like clinical biochemistry, histology, haematology, clinical microbiology, etiology and epidemiology?

What is it about working in pharmaceutical industry labs or hospital diagnostic labs that interests you? They have similar aspects but different hours, career paths, regulations and knowledge requirements.

I don't have much experience in the pharmaceutical sector but AFAIK the people in the labs have at least an honours science degree (level 8). A lot of people would now have an MSc. I know UCC has a few taught masters programmes aimed at the pharmaceutical sector.

Working as a medical scientist requires a related but different set of knowledge - more pathology orientated. We need to know what to check for if the calcium is really low but potassium is really high, if platelet count is extremely low, if the patients seems to have an antibody to every red cell or what can go wrong with a stain. It's analytical and kind of clinical. Depending on the lab you work in you may have to participate in out of routine hours work. Some specialise, others don't.
If you read the "pathways to membership" document in my previous post it outlines (quite well I think) what is required to convert a qualification to become a medical scientist. In cork your only option is the CIT/UCC undergraduate course. I would approach the UCC admissions office to ask about entry requirements and if you could get an exemption for parts of the course based on your first degree. Otherwise I know that DIT allow non-students to apply and study some final year modules as a CPD course. I'm not sure what the University of Ulster (coleraine) offers at undergraduate level but they do have a popular distance learning taught MSc (you would need an undergraduate programme though)

macflea

hi dingle berry

many thanks for reply , ucd graduate , standard veterinary degree,5 years small animal, 5 years dairy work, did histology , embryology, haematology , biochemistry, pathology , pharmacology , physiology , microbiology , parasitology , anatomy etc the course covered a lot , but a bit rusty now . will be doing more research on biomedical science ,ucc might be a better starting point than cit, cit have a open day next week so will go to that as well if not busy at work. many thanks again

cheers

Dingle_berry

Well at least you've covered the subjects. Do you have any preference between biochem, haem, transfusion, microbiology or histology from your previous studies?
Have you visited/toured the vet labs or hospital labs? If you go to CIT maybe ask someone from the school of biological sciences to see some of the lab stuff from the biomed course (bold films, special stains etc).

CIT used to be the only cork institution to do med lab when it was a cert/diploma. When it was changed to a level 8 degree CIT couldn't award level 8 qualifications so UCC did the honours degree, students from CIT transferred to UCC after clinical placement. The UCC students transferred to CIT after getting the degree to do the clinical placement. But for the last few years its been run as a joint course between the two. It was similar between DIT and TCD.

Turtle_Dove

Hi Dingle Berry,

You seem so well informed on all of this, I have about a million questions I hope you won't mind answering some of them. I'm actually a biomed student in UCC/CIT and I'm going into 4th year this year. But we are surprisingly ignorant of life after qualification so I was wondering if you could help me with a couple of pretty silly questions:

1. What are employment opportunities like at the minute? Do you know roughly how many from your class found work in Ireland?

2. How did you go about finding work once you qualified?

3. Have you ever worked abroad and if so did you have to do further entrance exams etc.?

4. The question that everyone avoids but really is important, we all have loans to pay off after all, what is the average starting salary?

5. How does placement work? When does it begin, did you have to organise it yourself or was it assigned to you, how did you prepare for it, etc.?

6. How does specialisation work? How long do you have to practice as a medical scientist before you can begin to specialise?

If you could answer even half of these you would really be helping me out.

Thanks a million.

Dingle_berry

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

Hi Dingle Berry,

You seem so well informed on all of this, I have about a million questions I hope you won't mind answering some of them. I'm actually a biomed student in UCC/CIT and I'm going into 4th year this year. But we are surprisingly ignorant of life after qualification so I was wondering if you could help me with a couple of pretty silly questions:

Has anyone in your year, like the class rep, approached the head of the degree to enquire about this? It may have changed with the new degree format.... I would start asking lecturers.

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

1. What are employment opportunities like at the minute? Do you know roughly how many from your class found work in Ireland?

employment opportunities in the sector in Ireland aren't great, but there are some. 5 permanent scientists have been taken on where I work this year.

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

2. How did you go about finding work once you qualified?

I did my placement after my degree and was offered a contract after my student year finished in the hospital I had been in

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

3. Have you ever worked abroad and if so did you have to do further entrance exams etc.?

nope I've never worked abroad, luckily. I know for Canada exams are required. Possibly not for the UK and the rest of Europe as the irish qualifications have the highest academic level in the EU

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

4. The question that everyone avoids but really is important, we all have loans to pay off after all, what is the average starting salary?

at the moment for a new entrant it's about €31K i think but there are "promises" in croke park 2...

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

5. How does placement work? When does it begin, did you have to organise it yourself or was it assigned to you, how did you prepare for it, etc.?

for me, I was told the week of the graduation ceremony that I had a placement (CIT were telling us that they couldn't place us) and we started the week after graduation. We were assigned to a hospital and the labs student training officer organised our timetables etc. the lab manager just sent us a letter saying be here on Monday the xxx at 9am

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

6. How does specialisation work? How long do you have to practice as a medical scientist before you can begin to specialise?

You specialise by taking a job! As our degree is multi disciplinary you just apply for any job and hope you get it. If there's a discipline you really like or hate you can target your applications but you'll be limiting yourself.

Your whole class should join the AMLS. You should meet and network with the years below you and get them to join the AMLS too. Student membership is free, it will keep you informed on developments in the sector, the job adverts are hidden from non-members on their website and going to the events/meetings provides a networking (get to know chiefs and managers to get jobs) as well as educational opportunities.

Tree

Regarding working abroad, a chat to your course coordinator will help. They will have had to interact with AMLS equivalents in other countries where their students have gone to work in the past.

For the UK you will have to register with the IBMS, as the CIT/UCC course isn't already accredited with them, there's some extra steps to go through, but if you contact them they're very helpful. Generating a portfolio can be done on the job so you don't need to do that before you apply for work.

Some countries will get you to sit an exam (certain US states do), for others registration with the local agency responsible for medical scientists is enough. You will usually need to provide transcripts and module descriptors to prove your qualification matches the local one. The course coordinator in CIT/UCC will be used ot this sort of thing. In DIT, we got a talk on working abroad from ppl who worked in Canada, New Zealand and the UK, there was some paperwork involved but all got jobs grand.

Turtle_Dove

Thank you so so much! We have asked and we have tried to find out all of this information but nobody seemed to have a straightforward answer. No doubt a lot of the confusion is due to the fact that this is a relatively new course and all of these problems will probably be ironed out over the next couple of years. Your answers have been invaluable, however, so thank you both again.

Dingle_berry

Turtle_Dove wrote: »

Thank you so so much! We have asked and we have tried to find out all of this information but nobody seemed to have a straightforward answer. No doubt a lot of the confusion is due to the fact that this is a relatively new course and all of these problems will probably be ironed out over the next couple of years. Your answers have been invaluable, however, so thank you both again.

You're welcome. It seems like some things never change!
It shouldn't be but a possible spanner in the works could be CP2. IIRC it states that students must be paid. But I think that that was only an issue for Dublin/non-HSE hospitals.

It really is worth getting to know the other years of Biomed (you may all be together in the same lab later on). Also join the AMLS now, it's free as a student, an OK way to get information and going to the conferences is a good way to meet managers, chiefs and seniors who will be interviewing you for jobs.

Turtle_Dove

Hello again! I thought continuing this thread may be the best way to contact people in the know. I have two scenarios I need advice on this time, the first being summer placement in a lab in the UK. I complete my degree in May but I don't start my clinical placement until September so I want to move to London for the summer and get work in a medical lab perhaps as a lab assistant as I won't be a qualified medical scientist. I'm just wondering if anybody has done something similar in the UK and if so, how did you secure a position, and what are the UK requirements for such a post?

Also, does anybody know the requirements for securing a work visa for Canada? By the time this comes about I will be fully qualified but won't have much clinical experience at all, so would anybody know what restrictions are in place in terms of applying for work as a medical scientist and also what the likelihood of getting a position in a hosp/clinic in Vancouver would be?

Thanks in advance

MoonDancer

What is the actual job you would get with a Medical BioTechnology honours degree?