Out of interest...

Neil3030

Where in the world would a squad comprised exclusively from League of Ireland players rank?

Lot's of extraneous variables here obviously, so let's assume they'd be coached by the present Republic of Ireland setup - Trapp et al.

_blank_

If you had a LoI XI managed by Trapp, you wouldn't have the best players in the LoI in the squad.

Pick someone like O'Neill or Fenlon or Kenny to be the manager, probably the best three managers in the league at present, and go from there.

I don't know enough about the PD to list a possible squad, so I'll let the other lads get on with that.

I think, on gut feeling alone, it would be better than most of the teams from the bottom two draw pots for UEFA qualifying tournaments.

OhNoYouDidn't

Better than you would think. Broadly speaking this is the LoI XI:

Mannus

O'Brien - Oman - Peers - Stevens

Kearns- Finn - Rice - Ryan

Twigg - Quigley

Subs:

Doherty
Sives
McGlynn
McLean
Ndo
Brennan
Sheppard



Obviosly not as good as the current ROI side, but we have fielded worse teams.

Certainly better than the 4th and 5th seeds in any group

OhNoYouDidn't

sugarman wrote: »

Id say anywhere between 130-150'ish with the likes of Wales, Iceland, Luxemburg, Faroes, Liechtenstein etc...

I don't think they would beat Wales, but my side above would hammer the likes of Faroes, Lux, Liect. etc. Most of those players are part timers to begin with.

sugarman wrote: »

We'd nick a win here & there or an aul goaless draw but we'd never be world beaters.

So no improvement on the current setup so.

sugarman wrote: »

Only reason being is beacause the LOI cant hold onto any of their top talents.

Only three or four leagues in the world can.

sugarman wrote: »

At the moment theres nobody in the LOI thats international stanard.

Apart, of course, from the international players in the LoI. Both Rovers goalkeepers, for example, are current international players, for the North and Jamaica.

The LoI for some reason has a far higher respect level overseas than in Ireland. Reading the Italian sports dailies when Rovers were in Italy was an eye opener.

stovelid

It's probably fairer to judge the league's ranking (31st of 53 countries) rather than comparing against international teams. It's not bad considering our population, the league's problems/support and the competition with other sports.

Neil3030

sugarman wrote: »

Id say anywhere between 130-150'ish with the likes of Wales, Iceland, Luxemburg, Faroes, Liechtenstein etc...

We'd nick a win here & there or an aul goaless draw but we'd never be world beaters.

Only reason being is beacause the LOI cant hold onto any of their top talents.

At the moment theres nobody in the LOI thats international stanard.

Tis a shame indeed. Would LOI fans ever get behind a provinsial setup like in rugby? Given our population I really think this is the only way of generating enough revenue to keep players at home.

OhNoYouDidn't

Neil3030 wrote: »

Tis a shame indeed. Would LOI fans ever get behind a provinsial setup like in rugby? Given our population I really think this is the only way of generating enough revenue to keep players at home.

Interesting you picked the only negative response to reply to.

We will wade in behind a provincial team the day after London has a united side to compete in the CL or the three Merseyside clubs merge to compete at the top of the EPL.

Who would they play against? Each other?

stovelid

Neil3030 wrote: »

Would LOI fans ever get behind a provinsial setup like in rugby?

Not sure about the culture of Rugby and its support but it would be hard for supporters just to drop their club to support a new franchise. Large scale support for franchises isn't guaranteed either, given the lack of interest in the domestic games as it stands.

_blank_

Neil3030 wrote: »

Tis a shame indeed. Would LOI fans ever get behind a provinsial setup like in rugby?

Where would the teams play?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Given our population I really think this is the only way of generating enough revenue to keep players at home.

You'd have small interest from current fans of domestic football, the rest don't have any interest in following it.

OhNoYouDidn't

stovelid wrote: »

It's probably fairer to judge the league's ranking (31st of 53 countries) rather than comparing against international teams. It's not bad considering our population, the league's problems/support and the competition with other sports.

Its actually very high for our population. Only Cyprus in 20th place would compare better. We are right behind the Scandanavians, Bosnia and Serbia too.

Neil3030

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Interesting you picked the only negative response to reply to.

We will wade in behind a provincial team the day after London has a united side to compete in the CL or the three Merseyside clubs merge to compete at the top of the EPL.

Who would they play against? Each other?

Only way I'd see it working would be through mergers with other leagues in Europe and have the teams compete for CL spots - maybe a selection from Scotland, Wales, Netherlands, Belgium?

stovelid wrote: »

Not sure about the culture of Rugby and its support but it would be hard for supporters just to drop their club to support a new franchise. Large scale support for franchises isn't guaranteed either, given the lack of interest in the domestic games as it stands.

Yeah, this would be my thinking too. Though if the above system could be employed I'd be confident that interest would soon follow.

Des wrote: »

Where would the teams play?

Dublin, Cork/Limerick, Galway, Belfast?

You'd have small interest from current fans of domestic football, the rest don't have any interest in following it.

Again, if the above proposed league merger system could be employed I'd imagine the interest would follow.

OhNoYouDidn't

Rugby is different. The provincial teams existed before they became the primary teams.

I find it very hard to believe that if the Great Irish Sporting Public (tm) won't get off their rear ends to see Rovers v Bohs, that they would flock to see Connaught versus Anglesea or Munster versus the Highlands.

Also the reason that the provincial rugby setup works is because the IRFU can directly subsidise players wages. The FAI cannot.

Fair play, you are thinking outside the box, but franchise football doesn't work. I refer you back to my English franchise suggestions.

stovelid

I don't mean this to be smart at all, but there is also the assumption that acheiving wild success for Irish clubs is so paramount that you would dump the identity of your club that in most cases have been around for a century or longer.

Don't get me wrong, most LOI supporters would love to see their clubs breaking the champions league and having huge crowds but I'm sure most would be happy with a stable, relatively well-attended league with a regular crack at the group stages of the CL/EL.

Neil3030

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Rugby is different. The provincial teams existed before they became the primary teams.

I find it very hard to believe that if the Great Irish Sporting Public (tm) won't get off their rear ends to see Rovers v Bohs, that they would flock to see Connaught versus Anglesea or Munster versus the Highlands.

Also the reason that the provincial rugby setup works is because the IRFU can directly subsidise players wages. The FAI cannot.

Fair play, you are thinking outside the box, but franchise football doesn't work. I refer you back to my English franchise suggestions.

Now who's being negative!!

Leinster V Ajax, Munster V Celtic, Ulster V Cardiff? I'd imagine the barstoolers would stretch the legs for those matches, not to mention the derby matches.

I just can't see how the domestic game can ever make the next step without a drastic overhaul. Further, we are a sporting mad country with a sizeable football playing/watching population, yet all this amounts to is wealthy publicans and cable tv companies, all the while the domestic game suffers.

Fr Tod Umptious

Neil3030 wrote: »

Now who's being negative!!

Leinster V Ajax, Munster V Celtic, Ulster V Cardiff? I'd imagine the barstoolers would stretch the legs for those matches, not to mention the derby matches.

I just can't see how the domestic game can ever make the next step without a drastic overhaul. Further, we are a sporting mad country with a sizeable football playing/watching population, yet all this amounts to is wealthy publicans and cable tv companies, all the while the domestic game suffers.

I have been suggesting a franchised league between Eire, Scotland, etc for a long time on these boards for ages now, but I usually get shot down.

Anyway I think there would be intesret in Connaught v Highlands if Connaught were competitive.

Just like the rugby bandwagon, Munster would not have half the support they currently have if they were not competitive year in year out.

OhNoYouDidn't

Neil3030 wrote: »

Now who's being negative!!

To repeat myself, kudos for giving this some thought and its a better idea than most. But its flawed.

I'm not being negative, just practical. Would the fans of London clubs agree to a merger to finally win the CL? The three Birmingham clubs merging to compete at the top of the EPL? The underlying principal is the same. I have as much affinity to the concept of Leinster as I do the Nothern Hemisphere.

FIFA have made their opinion on multinational leagues abundantly clear. The Balkan states wanted to return to a unified league like the old Yugoslavian days and were told to take a running jump.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Leinster V Ajax, Munster V Celtic, Ulster V Cardiff? I'd imagine the barstoolers would stretch the legs for those matches, not to mention the derby matches.

It might, but it might not. And whats in it for Ajax, Cardiff and Celtic?

Neil3030 wrote: »

I just can't see how the domestic game can ever make the next step without a drastic overhaul. Further, we are a sporting mad country with a sizeable football playing/watching population, yet all this amounts to is wealthy publicans and cable tv companies, all the while the domestic game suffers.

There is nothing inherently wrong with domestic football. The product is better than any other similar sized country, some of the facilities are top notch. The problem is that, for reasons done to death, people prefer to consume their football at home or in the pub and benchmark football against the EPL that represents 55m people. Nothing can particularly be done to intice these people to games. Its the kids we are targetting.

Rugby did not have a culture of barstooling. Their core base went to games, used to be the AIL, now its the provincial sides. The professional transition worked for them for a number of reasons, and fair play. But the structure of football does not allow a centrally held contract system and the likes of the Magners League.

OhNoYouDidn't

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Just like the rugby bandwagon, Munster would not have half the support they currently have if they were not competitive year in year out.

But those were Cork Con, Shannon and Garryowen fans to start with.

They are competitive because the IRFU pay most of their players wages. The FAI are not allowed subsidise in this way, so one of the core pillars of their success is not an option to us.

If Munster had to compete with English rugby the way Irish football does, the bandwagon would never have begun rolling.

Its apples and oranges.

101001

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I have been suggesting a franchised league between Eire, Scotland, etc for a long time on these boards for ages now, but I usually get shot down.

Anyway I think there would be intesret in Connaught v Highlands if Connaught were competitive.

Just like the rugby bandwagon, Munster would not have half the support they currently have if they were not competitive year in year out.

But if you do have a hybrid league is it possible to qualify for Europe? Isnt this what happened to Cardiff. They almost qualified through the cup but because they were a Welsh side they wouldnt have been allowed to play in Europe. You need to qualify through your own FA leagues?

Would you get sanctioning from UEFA to make a hybrid league? Its pretty unchartered territory

bohsman

Neil3030 wrote: »

Now who's being negative!!

Leinster V Ajax, Munster V Celtic, Ulster V Cardiff? I'd imagine the barstoolers would stretch the legs for those matches, not to mention the derby matches.

I just can't see how the domestic game can ever make the next step without a drastic overhaul. Further, we are a sporting mad country with a sizeable football playing/watching population, yet all this amounts to is wealthy publicans and cable tv companies, all the while the domestic game suffers.

Leinster v Amsterdam, Munster v Glasgow, London v Milan etc you mean?

Deciding that wholesale change is the only way to get this Bandwagon jumping Mad country to follow the league is mental, I find it highly unlikely that EPL fans will suddenly decide to support their province instead of their existing clubs. You will also lose the support of the vast majority of people who are pumping money into the Irish game now.

Its just yet more excuses to make people feel better about themselves.

If all football fans in the country supported their nearest team the standard would shoot up, unfortunately the league will never be better than the EPL or La Liga so the majority will always look down on it.

Fr Tod Umptious

101001 wrote: »

But if you do have a hybrid league is it possible to qualify for Europe? Isnt this what happened to Cardiff. They almost qualified through the cup but because they were a Welsh side they wouldnt have been allowed to play in Europe. You need to qualify through your own FA leagues?

Would you get sanctioning from UEFA to make a hybrid league? Its pretty chartered territory

Like I have said many times on these threads, it can only happen as part of a wider re-org of European leagues, which may or may never happen

Neil3030

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

To repeat myself, kudos for giving this some thought and its a better idea than most. But its flawed.

I'm not being negative, just practical. Would the fans of London clubs agree to a merger to finally win the CL? The three Birmingham clubs merging to compete at the top of the EPL? The underlying principal is the same. I have as much affinity to the concept of Leinster as I do the Nothern Hemisphere.

Well the reality is that they do not need to. We need to accept that English football has inherent population advantages that we simply can't compete with, so to fight fire with fire will only serve to strengthen their position - their product remains relatively strong, attracting more of the LOI's potential domestic audience.

FIFA have made their opinion on multinational leagues abundantly clear. The Balkan states wanted to return to a unified league like the old Yugoslavian days and were told to take a running jump.

Well this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Corruption and progress are rarely found hand in hand...

It might, but it might not. And whats in it for Ajax, Cardiff and Celtic?

A stronger league, better competition week in/out, more TV money, more away fans?

There is nothing inherently wrong with domestic football. The product is better than any other similar sized country, some of the facilities are top notch. The problem is that, for reasons done to death, people prefer to consume their football at home or in the pub and benchmark football against the EPL that represents 55m people. Nothing can particularly be done to intice these people to games. Its the kids we are targetting.

Rugby did not have a culture of barstooling. Their core base went to games, used to be the AIL, now its the provincial sides. The professional transition worked for them for a number of reasons, and fair play. But the structure of football does not allow a centrally held contract system and the likes of the Magners League.

Clearly, the key to increasing revenues is to increase attendances and TV monies; in sum, increase public interest, or to put it more cynically, appeal to a bandwagon effect.

Now from what I can see, and as you say, the public simply are not buying into the existing system - the barstool bandwagon garner their utility from watching English clubs on TV, in favour of subscribing to the cause of their local LOI team.

So the unavoidable question is - does the LOI want to attract a bandwagon or not? If not, fair enough, but the problem is that the revolving door of emigrating youth prospects will only continue without the economical support of bandwagon interest.

So do you want a system that encourages homegrown talent to stay, and a system that improves the standard of the domestic game which could possibly even lead to one or several Irish "teams" consitently competing at the highest level in Europe.

Or do you want a system which exists exclusively to serve the existing inter-club rivalaries?

I just can't see how you can pursue the former under the latter system.

This is how I see the situation at any rate.

stovelid

Neil3030 wrote: »

So do you want a system that encourages homegrown talent to stay, and a system that improves the standard of the domestic league game which could possibly even lead to one or several Irish clubs consitently competing at the highest level in Europe.

Not at the expense of giving up everything we are. No more than people from Clare and Limerick would merge their hurling teams to have a better crack at Kilkenny or Liverpool and Everton would combine as Merseyside FC.

Again: there isn't a LOI supporter alive that wouldn't take massive crowds and success but the EPL and La Liga doesn't have to be the becnhmark or validation - no more than it is for the 95% of other teams in the world.

To see Ireland pulling up to the level of the countries just above us in the UEFA league rankings would be a fantastic medium or short-term achievement: decent facilites, relatively healthy crowds and regular participation in Europe while trying to build youth programs and growing the league at a natural pace

OhNoYouDidn't

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well the reality is that they do not need to. We need to accept that English football has inherent population advantages that we simply can't compete with, so to fight fire with fire will only serve to strengthen their position - their product remains relatively strong, attracting more of the LOI's potential domestic audience.

As one famous cynic at Rovers once said, you could be offering free sex at LoI games and most Irish fans would still find a reason to not go.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Well this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Corruption and progress are rarely found hand in hand...

I'm not sure if thats it. They are skeptical of multinational leagues because if the Balkans can have one, why not G14. Then the genie is out of the bottle.

Neil3030 wrote: »

A stronger league, better competition week in/out, more TV money, more away fans?

I disagree on all of the above. Am I more likely to travel to Amsterdam than a Feyenoord fan?

Neil3030 wrote: »

Clearly, the key to increasing revenues is to increase attendances and TV monies; in sum, increase public interest, or to put it more cynically, appeal to a bandwagon effect.

I think we should be appealing to the kids. Bandwagons are not sustainable.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Now from what I can see, and as you say, the public simply are not buying into the existing system - the barstool bandwagon garner their utility from watching English clubs on TV, in favour of subscribing to the cause of their local LOI team.

And they never will. They are irrelevent in the larger scheme of things. If we can get them to come along, great, but its not worth spending resources on.

Neil3030 wrote: »

So the unavoidable question is - does the LOI want to attract a bandwagon or not? If not, fair enough, but the problem is that the revolving door of emigrating youth prospects will only continue without the economical support of bandwagon interest.

Yes and no. Rovers clearly have a bandwagon of sorts rolling. People from Tallaght who have never been to a live game now have season tickets. But we didn't land flyers into the Submarine or anything. It organically happened through innovative marketing and a genuine buzz around the place.

In short, the thirty something who is Man U mental is basically lost to the LoI. He might come to the odd match, he might even get hooked, and great, but that sort of fan cannot be relied on longer term. Spend the money on promotions in schools.

Neil3030 wrote: »

So do you want a system that encourages homegrown talent to stay, and a system that improves the standard of the domestic game which could possibly even lead to one or several Irish "teams" consitently competing at the highest level in Europe.

Of course. Sell em at 20 and get them back for free at 30 where they pass on their experience to the next batch. Works for the Scandinavians.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Or do you want a system which exists exclusively to serve the existing inter-club rivalaries?

Very much so. Football is a tribal game and Ireland is no different. Why are they mutually exclusive?

Neil3030 wrote: »

I just can't see how you can pursue the former under the latter system.

Prudential financial planning, incentive based contracts, increasing crowds with a base level of season ticket sales, a mix of good young players and more seasoned pro's, a manager who played at the top in England, Scotland and the States and has international experience and a masters degree in accounting, good grassroots in the area and a strong community ethos. In other words, Shamrock Rovers.

jdooley28

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Better than you would think. Broadly speaking this is the LoI XI:

Mannus

O'Brien - Oman - Peers - Stevens

Kearns- Finn - Rice - Ryan

Twigg - Quigley

Subs:

Doherty
Sives
McGlynn
McLean
Ndo
Brennan
Sheppard



Obviosly not as good as the current ROI side, but we have fielded worse teams.

Certainly better than the 4th and 5th seeds in any group

Can Ndo play for Ireland? I thought he was from Cameroon or somewhere shows what i know

stovelid

jdooley28 wrote: »

Can Ndo play for Ireland? I thought he was from Cameroon or somewhere shows what i know

Cameroon.

Assumed that OP meant any player currently in the league as Twigg (Scotland), Mannus(NI) and Kearns (NI) sre not from (Republic of) Ireland

Neil3030

stovelid wrote: »

Cameroon.

Assumed that OP meant any player currently in the league as Twigg (Scotland), Mannus(NI) and Kearns (NI) sre not from (Republic of) Ireland

This

premierstone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As one famous cynic at Rovers once said, you could be offering free sex at LoI games and most Irish fans would still find a reason to not go.

I think the very thought of sex with a rovers fan would be reason enough not to go

doncarlos

stovelid wrote: »

Cameroon.

Assumed that OP meant any player currently in the league as Twigg (Scotland), Mannus(NI) and Kearns (NI) sre not from (Republic of) Ireland

Kearns is a current Republic of Ireland U21 international.
Mannus has only played friendlies for Northern Ireland but wasn't born on the Island but if he has an Irish (Island of Ireland) parent he could still declare and play for the republic.
Not sure if Twigg has any Irish blood

stovelid

Didn't realize about Kearns. Cheers.

Mannus actually born in Canada I think.

Oat23

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Mannus

O'Brien - Oman - Peers - Stevens

Kearns- Finn - Rice - Ryan

Twigg - Quigley

Not a winger. He's a CM. I think I've told you this before but you rejected my claim of him being a CM(even though I watch him play every week).

OhNoYouDidn't

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Not a winger. He's a CM. I think I've told you this before but you rejected my claim of him being a CM(even though I watch him play every week).

Grand so, he is dropped.

bohsman

lol at Rice being in the team and can only imagine how ONYD would have reacted if someone had claimed Oman was good enough this time last season.

Ebbs

bohsman wrote: »

lol at Rice being in the team and can only imagine how ONYD would have reacted if someone had claimed Oman was good enough this time last season.

Rice has been one of our best players continously for the last few seasons. Only player left since Scully and has become a bit of a talisman for us. We just play better with him there so I can see why ONYD included him. Maybe not the strongest footballer in the league but certainly is the balance Finn needs. Each to his own though.

Oman I'm not too sure of either, hes been great for us and has won every ball in the air....all season. The league has relativly poor center backs tbh. Very hard to see any that would make it in England.

As for the team itself.... I'd love to see a LoI team vs the current Trap team. Very close i'd reckon.

Pinturicchio

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Better than you would think. Broadly speaking this is the LoI XI:

Mannus

O'Brien - Oman - Peers - Stevens

Kearns- Finn - Rice - Ryan

Twigg - Quigley

I wouldn't have Oman anywhere near the squad.

Richie Ryan isn't winger.

jdooley28 wrote: »

Can Ndo play for Ireland? I thought he was from Cameroon or somewhere shows what i know

He has 20+ caps for Cameroon and has been to two World Cups.

bohsman

Ebbs wrote: »

Oman I'm not too sure of either, hes been great for us and has won every ball in the air....all season. The league has relativly poor center backs tbh. Very hard to see any that would make it in England.

I do think 6 foot something donkeys are the way to go for centre halves in this league, the likes of Oman, Murray, Price, McGuinness, Derek Coughlan back in the day work perfectly, the faster and more skilful thestrikers get the better the footballing defenders you need.

Ebbs

bohsman wrote: »

I do think 6 foot something donkeys are the way to go for centre halves in this league, the likes of Oman, Murray, Price, McGuinness, Derek Coughlan back in the day work perfectly, the faster and more skilful thestrikers get the better the footballing defenders you need.

I agree tbh, Sivves is the only CB at Rovers that can play too and is good on the deck but out of favour/injured for a long time so cant really say.

The strikers in this league are pacy, skillful etc...and tbh have been for a long time but this league always seems to play the big CB...right from Terry Palmer to Maguire and now Oman.

Really cant think of any good CB in the league at the moment bar Peers if you can suggest someone to replace Oman..throw it out there :P Kenna maybe :S

AgileMyth

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Grand so, he is dropped.

Dropping your best players already, you'll make a grand Ireland manager yet.

I'd have

---

Mannus
Keane---Peers--Sivves---someone else!

Kearns--Ryan----Finn

---

Quigley

---

Russell

---

Twigg/Sheppard

Sivves really impressed me last year and to be honest no centre back has impressed this year at all, so he keeps his place!
Can't think of an outstanding left back really.
Had to fit Quigley in somewhere.

bonerm

I reckon an all LOI team with a decent manager would be looking at continuous 4th seed status. Not that I think they'd actually be 4th seed quality but I'm convinced they'd have a bit more desire and excitement for playing for their country than our current lot. Also I'd imagine LOI clubs would be less interfering with releases etc than clubs across the water.

dreamers75

bonerm wrote: »

I reckon an all LOI team with a decent manager would be looking at continuous 4th seed status. Not that I think they'd actually be 4th seed quality but I'm convinced they'd have a bit more desire and excitement for playing for their country than our current lot. Also I'd imagine LOI clubs would be less interfering with releases etc than clubs across the water.

We play matches the day before internationals, there would be some consternation.

.................Rogers
Sligo RB Kenna Peers Stevens
Dennehy.......Ryan..........Kelly
....................Ndo
............................Sheppard
.......Quigley

We would be ranked 4th in groups and be classed at 45th in the world.

LuckyLloyd

lol at some of the optimism on here.

We'd be soundly beaten over two legs by the likes of Macedonia and Montenegro. Make of that what you will.

Probably a 5th seed. No shot of qualification under the current system.

dreamers75

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

lol at some of the optimism on here.

Not optimism tbh, there are some really good players here.

Irish people fail to realise for all the horrible things they do the FAI actually have a decent underage system in place. The thieving clubs in DDSL do actually steal the best talent and they are a conveyor belt of pro footballers.

And the FAI bless this with the finest youth coaches around. We will always create talent over here. Some will go some will stay, no matter there will always a pretty damn good IRISH 11 available.

BOHtox

If it had to be all Irish players.

---

Mannus

---

Keane

---

Oman

---

Price

---

Lafferty

---

Finn----Dempsey

---

Ryan
Kearns

---

Flood

---

Brennan

BOHtox

I reckon we'd be the best of the minnows like Andorra and San Marino.

dfx-

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Better than you would think. Broadly speaking this is the LoI XI:

Mannus

O'Brien - Oman - Peers - Stevens

Kearns- Finn - Rice - Ryan

Twigg - Quigley

Subs:

Doherty
Sives
McGlynn
McLean
Ndo
Brennan
Sheppard



Obviosly not as good as the current ROI side, but we have fielded worse teams.

Certainly better than the 4th and 5th seeds in any group

Decent side on paper definitely. The variables of course like whether they'd unite as a team, function as a team, have the manager play the team to suit their roles.

LuckyLloyd

dreamers75 wrote: »

Not optimism tbh, there are some really good players here.

Irish people fail to realise for all the horrible things they do the FAI actually have a decent underage system in place. The thieving clubs in DDSL do actually steal the best talent and they are a conveyor belt of pro footballers.

And the FAI bless this with the finest youth coaches around. We will always create talent over here. Some will go some will stay, no matter there will always a pretty damn good IRISH 11 available.

We have no players anywhere near the level of the core of the current side though. Given, O'Shea, Dunne, McGeady, Keane, Doyle and then young talents like McCarthy and Foley would completely **** up the best of the LOI. I know you won't agree with that, so feel free to agree to disagree if you like.

I am fully aware of the underage system, and know a fair bit about one of those thieving DDSL clubs. The DDSL is a conveyor belt of talent, but that conveyor belt running through the top UK academies ends up with the national team we have now - 2nd / 3rd seeds with a decent shot at qualification. This scenario takes the top players produced via that avenue out of the equation.

Look at this way, getting away from our underage and senior sides which have always competed well enough, take a look at our U21 side over the past decade. Made up of the also rans of the young Irish professional ranks in the UK and talented LOI players they have been woefully uncompetitive, and are very far off qualifying for a tournament at that level. I think their level serves as a more accurate indicator of where we would be in this hypothetical.

As for the bolded "Irish" bit, you can tell me the likes of Ryan or Flood would appreciate it more all you like, but I can't see them bringing more hustle to the table than Killer Kilbane. Ultimately, the players in the LOI are in the LOI because they aren't good enough for the Premiership or Championship in the UK or any of the big six or seven continental leagues. And incase you're wondering, I'm seeing these players in the flesh every second week.

We would get killed if our national team was solely plucked from the LOI.

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

We have no players anywhere near the level of the core of the current side though. Given, O'Shea, Dunne, McGeady, Keane, Doyle and then young talents like McCarthy and Foley would completely **** up the best of the LOI. I know you won't agree with that, so feel free to agree to disagree if you like.

I am fully aware of the underage system, and know a fair bit about one of those thieving DDSL clubs. The DDSL is a conveyor belt of talent, but that conveyor belt running through the top UK academies ends up with the national team we have now - 2nd / 3rd seeds with a decent shot at qualification. This scenario takes the top players produced via that avenue out of the equation.

Look at this way, getting away from our underage and senior sides which have always competed well enough, take a look at our U21 side over the past decade. Made up of the also rans of the young Irish professional ranks in the UK and talented LOI players they have been woefully uncompetitive, and are very far off qualifying for a tournament at that level. I think their level serves as a more accurate indicator of where we would be in this hypothetical.

As for the bolded "Irish" bit, you can tell me the likes of Ryan or Flood would appreciate it more all you like, but I can't see them bringing more hustle to the table than Killer Kilbane. Ultimately, the players in the LOI are in the LOI because they aren't good enough for the Premiership or Championship in the UK or any of the big six or seven continental leagues. And incase you're wondering, I'm seeing these players in the flesh every second week.

We would get killed if our national team was solely plucked from the LOI.

Agree with everything in this post bar your point on the U21s. The effect of Don Givens is why they have been woefully uncompetitive.

kraggy

Dermot Desmond has on more than occasion investigated the viability of a North Atlantic league invovling clubs from Scotland, Belgium, Holland and others but it never came to fruition. Think the costs of flying everywhere for games and other difficulties put that idea to bed.

I like the idea of a provinces set up. That is, if we could enter a league where we'd be playing decent opposition such as Scottish, Dutch etc teams.

And to ONYD who poses the question, would London clubs merge in order to win the CL? Well, quite frankly no. But only because they've a chance of winning it, however remote that may be. An Irish club team will probably not even make the group stages of the CL, ever.

stovelid

kraggy wrote: »

And to ONYD who poses the question, would London clubs merge in order to win the CL? Well, quite frankly no. But only because they've a chance of winning it, however remote that may be. An Irish club team will probably not even make the group stages of the CL, ever.

By the same token then, anybody who supports a team in England that isn't in the top four would agree to merging their team with their city rivals at the drop of a pin?

Why do people keep assuming that domestic football supporters want large-scale (and perhaps temporary) success so much more than a relatively stable league that they would dump their clubs to get it?

LuckyLloyd

SantryRed wrote: »

Agree with everything in this post bar your point on the U21s. The effect of Don Givens is why they have been woefully uncompetitive.

Givens was clearly awful. But come on now, we were terrible at that level during the 80's and 90's when we had a decent senior team / success at underage (mid nineties on), and I am not exactly holding my breath now that the post Givens era is going to herald Irish dominance in U21 competition (or even relevance tbh).

kraggy

stovelid wrote: »

By the same token then, anybody who supports a team in England that isn't in the top four would agree to merging their team with their city rivals at the drop of a pin?

Why do people keep assuming that domestic football supporters want large-scale (and perhaps temporary) success so much more than a relatively stable league that they would dump their clubs to get it?

You see, therein lies the key.

It would attract a lot of non-LOI supporters in a bandwagon way that saw Munster support go from tiny to massive in the space of a few years.

I'm not saying that people should ditch their clubs. But I think that the provincial way could be something worth looking at.

doncarlos

kraggy wrote: »

I'm not saying that people should ditch their clubs.

Yes you are