UEFA Champions League Final - Barça -v- Man Utd - 28th May 2011 - 7:45pm

redout

ShamoBuc

Manchester United

That's a bit previous of you..... there's at least 15 mins left in the semi!!!!



p.s. Barca 3 - 1 Utd

Paully D

Manchester United

Nice banner!

I think Barcelona will win but I'll be hoping for a Manchester United win.

Panthro

KAMON YOU...oh wait, I'm undecided

shadowcomplex

redout wrote: »

FAIL

United are the designated home team so their name should be first

The Floyd p

Manchester United

Let me be the first to say, 3-0!

Come on BARCA!!!!!

massdebater

I hate both teams equally. 6-6 draw please

Blatter

shadowcomplex wrote: »

FAIL

United are the designated home team so their name should be first

Actually, they're not. Barcelona are the designated home team.

ilovelamp2000

As much as I voiced my disgust and displeasure with Barca's antics throughout the semi final charade with Madrid ...... I'll still be cheering for them.

A Dub in Glasgo

I always thought match day threads are reserved for the match day or a couple of days beforehand at a push but 24 days? Total overkill

missingtime

Who's taking bets at what post number the first MOD WARNING will be?

Blatter

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I always thought match day threads are reserved for the match day or a couple of days beforehand at a push but 24 days? Total overkill

Seriously, if you have a problem, report the OP's post.

Don't spoil the thread for everyone else with your moaning shít.

Frisbee

Yeah absolutely no need to have this open already when there's so much deciding football left to be played for both teams.

Will re-open it closer the time.

Frisbee

Thread re-opened.

Go bananas.

Paul Tergat

Opening this before the weekends match will only anger Ian Holloway imo :P

missingtime

Betting closed.

Mezcita

Frisbee wrote: »

Go bananas.

(Goes bananas)

This is worth pimping. Great offer.

"Champions League Final MBS
Barcelona v Man Utd
Sat. 28th May - 7.45pm SS1/ITV1/RTE2
Money-Back Special
If Barcelona win this match in normal time, Paddy Power will refund all losing 1st/Last Goalscorer, Correct Score and Scorecast singles on the match."

Mitch Connor

Manchester United

My team selection would be the same (basically) as played Chelsea in the league and the CL.

---

Van Der Sar

Rafael--Ferdinan--Vidic--Evra

Valencia--Carrick--Giggs--Park

---

Rooney

---

Hernandez.

Reasons and musings:

Back 5 pretty much picks itself, well 4 of them do anyway. VDS, Rio, Vidic and Evra are certainties. The only issue is at RB, with the choice being down to Rafael or Fabio. O'Shea not in the equation for me as Barcelona won't be coming at us with aerial bombardment - it will be pace and movement and the two young twins are better to combat that, O'Shea would get destroyed imo. Which of the twins that is picked is another matter. A month or so ago and it would have been an easy shout for Rafael but Fabio has really pushed on in the last few games he has played. Seems a more balanced player than his brother. It is a tough, tough call.

Valencia gets the call for right wing over Nani as he is a more natural and traditional winger - he will provide us with a wide out ball pretty much all the time and I would very much fancy him vs Abidal (who won't be fully fit) or Puyol or whomever Barcelona put at LB. His defensive work will also be key to the game.

In the centre I would go with Carrick and Giggs. They are the form pair, and they are balanced. They have shown vs Chelsea and Shalke that they can play together, and I see no reason to break it up. Carrick will play the deeper of the role, and leave the passing tempo game to Giggs, as he has done recently. This means Carrick can concentrate on the defensive positioning and not have to worry about creating for the forwards (he will look to create and play, but having Giggs beside him, as opposed to Fletcher, will mean it isn't his responsibility). Giggs will be the CM playmaker, and (again) as he showed vs Chelsea, he will work his balls off and tackle well. People may go on about how he went missing vs Barcelona in 09 - and he did, it was a horrid 'performance' - but I see it of no relevance now. He had a bad game that night, he has had excellent games since then. No reason to punish him for an off night when he is our best option (imo) now.

Fletcher is left out of my team for a number of reasons.

1. Unfit. He has missed a load of game time, and lost a load of weight - I just can't see him being at the peak of his powers and we can't have players with a lack of match sharpness in a game vs Barcelona.
2. Average. He has been average by his standards this season when he has played. His importance to the team (especially with the showing of Carrick and Giggs as a partnership) has diminished as a result of this. People, conciously or subconciously, are looking at how we missed him in 09 and picking him based on that imo. The team has changed and so has he (in terms of form as I have mentioned). In the same way i wouldn't use 09 as a reason not to pick Giggs, I wouldn't use it as a reason to pick Fletcher.
3. Balance. If Fletcher does play, I would reckon it would be Giggs to miss out. Carrick and Fletcher are not a good combo. On paper it should be fine, but Carrick doesn't trust Fletcher to be the lead midfielder/passer - so he ends up pushing on and trying to take that responsibility himself - which means he moves further forward and leaves gaps behind. Positionally, it could be a disaster vs barcelona.

Park is absolutely key to our chances, along with Rooney and Hernandez imo. For me, Park is a certain starter on the left side of midfield. He will need his three lungs too, as he is basically going to have three jobs.
1. Track and stop Dani Alves. A big part of Barcelona's weaponry is Alves bombing on from right back. The width he offers allows Messi to drift and roam - if we can stop Alves from having free reign on the right side of the pitch like he does a lot of the time we will take out a big part of the Barcelona attack.
2. Moving inside and cutting out centre-to-right side passing and running moves from Barcelona. Again, similar to how he played against Chelsea, we will need Park to help out in the centre as our formation will almost be pitting just two midfielders vs Barcelonas 3. Park (and Rooney) will be needed to help out and even it up.

Rooney plays a withdrwn striking role in this game for me, similar to how he played vs Chelsea, but possibly a bit more defensive than that. Without the ball we will need him to help out the midfield (as he generally does) and his primary responsibility, for me, would be to stop Busquets from getting or giving easy passes. Barcelona play from the back, if we can stop them doing this easily to Busquets (Rooney) and/or Alves (Park) we will have a chance to get some ball and create some chances. The positioning of Rooney would also hopefully stop Pique from roaming forward too much and adding to the midfield problems. On the ball, we'd be looking to rooney to do what he has been doing - releasing Chico or Valencia quickly and moving forward. A few long range strikes to draw defenders towards him to close down (thus creating a bit more space in behind) is also something we will need from him.

Hernandez - he is the big call imo. 9 of the other 10 starters are certainties (Right back issue mentioned before). For this game, i reckon it will be Fletcher or Hernandez - 451 or 4411/442. The reasons I would go with Hernandez are the following:
1. Pace on the counter. He will sit on the shoulder of the last defender and provide us with a quick counter attack option - he won't drop as deep as rooney would if playing the lone striker role, so he will be an attacking out ball - vs Barcelona we will need that option.
2. The fact he would stay forward will occupy the Barcelona defenders - they won't be able to step forward as easily themselves as it would leave space and gaps behind for us to exploit. Stopping Barcelona defenders from joining the attack clearly gives us a better chance.
3. Pace for a ball over the top. If Barcelona play a high defensive line (as they generally do) we can exploit this with balls in behind for chico to chase, and he has the pace to beat most players to the ball. So, Barcelona may well play a deeper defensive line in order to restrict the space in behind for him to attack. This will increase the distance between the barcelona defenders and midfielders (and with Rooney sitting on Busquets) and will make it harder for barcelona to build from the back or swamp the midfield.
4. He is a worker. He will chase every ball we play towards him and not allow defenders to easily collect misplaced passes - they will be kept honest. He will also close down the Barca CBs and stop them from playing easy passes.

It is a one off game, so we have to go somewhat offensively, and the team I have selected is quite offensive - ostensibly 442 and without a 'tackler' aka Fletcher. However, I think it gives us the best chance of scoring, while giving barcelona something to think about. It also is set up to put pressure on their defense immediately (on and off the ball) and stop Busquets and Alves from having free reign.

It does rely on the defenders being able to handle the barcelona front line without everyone bar the striker also helping them at all times, but I think there is enough defensive workrate and attitude in every player I have selected to give us a real chance. Valencia and Park will help their fullbacks - Carrick and Giggs are great readers of the game and will offer a lot defensively. Rooney will drop and track and hussle and harry. Chico, while generally being the point of our attack - is a wonderful worker too, and he won't give Barcelona players space if he is in a position to do something about it. Every player in that team will put in a solid defensive shift and will defend from the front to the back. We won't be carrying anyone from a defensive respect - which we did in 09 with Ronaldo (and Giggs considering how badly he played).

The other way I think we could go, with the same players, would be Rooney out wide left defending vs Alves but also trying to pin him back or exploit space behind him more so that Park would. We would then play Park in the centre, like we did vs Milan last season for example, and have him buzzing around Busquets and Xavi. I reckon that 451 is a bit more solid defensively, and I think a, basically, midfield 3 of Park, Carrick and Giggs would stand up to Barcelona's midfield better than Rooney, Carrick and Giggs. My worry would be the blunting of our own attack - and Rooney could end up getting isolated and frustrated. If he doesn't get into the game, and playing him out left runs the risk of him not getting into the game, our chances of hurting Barca are greatly reduced.

Barcelona will be favourites - but we have a chance and I feel if we set up and play like I have listed above, and we do it to the best of our ability, we can beat them.

BELIEVE.

Blatter

@Mitch

Would it not be fair to assume Fabio will start RB? He has started against Schalke away, Arsenal away and Chelsea at home. Those were our last 3 most important games and Rafael was fit.

flahavaj

Manchester United

Excellent write up Mitch. I can't disagree with any of it.

I'm surprisingly relaxed about this CL Final. I really didn't think we'd be getting to the final this year. I feel like all the pressure has lifted with the PL secured - losing hat would have been a disaster.

For me, all the pressure here is on Barca, they are being lauded as the greatest team ever and are everybody's favourites to win the game. When United played in the final in 99 and 08, there was expectation to win and I'd have been gutted to lose either. Here I feel we're in almost a no-lose situation, if Barca beat us we are going dowen to the best in the business and winning the PL would hev been seen by most fans as already having been a more han satidfactory season. Hopefully the players feel this way too and can play without inhibition.

Beating this Barca team would rank up there with anything that Fergie has done in his career to daye IMO. It would also end the debate for once and for all for me over who's the greatest manager ever. My main hope is the team acquits itself better than 09 and puts in a showing we can be proud of. If thats not good enough, then so be it, we can say hands down the better team beat us at our best.

mike65

Heck only seven days to go, can the time pass slowly enough.

Blatter

mike65 wrote: »

Heck only seven days to go, can the time pass slowly enough.

10 days, it's on a Saturday:(

mike65

What? Christ FA Cup at 5.45, European Cup on the weekend, Marathons are Snickers. is there no end to this? :mad:

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Is was on a Saturday last year too Mícheál.

LuckyGent88

Great write up Mitch and completely agree with the team you have picked and the way you want them set-up.
There is no point in us just parking the bus, we are not that type of club and we should just go out and give it everything with a positive forward attitude. I have no doubt that if we get some quality possession we can create chances and i would prefer to have Chicha on the end of them than Berba at the moment anyway.
Our full-backs and wingers have the pace to compete and defend against the likes of Alves,Pedro and Villa and we should force them to cross the ball into the box as we should have the advantage in the air anyway.

C'Mon UNITED

mike65

I must have chosen not to partake of that - who played?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Bayern agus Inter.

I pretty much agree with what Mitch said.:P

mike65

Oh yeah Its coming back to me, terrible game (I think).

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Manchester United

Giggs in the centre of a 4-4-2?? That would be grand, good even, against any other team in the world, but against Barca? They'd run rings around him. IMO Fletcher has to start, but instead of who is the question. I think the only thing you failed to take into account Mitch is that Xavi and Iniesta will be looking to get on the end of through balls too, and with the United defence occupied by MVP, and Park and Valencia occupied by Alves and Abi, that leaves Giggs and Carrick to track Xavi and Iniesta, which, I don't think, would end well at all. I think Messi will also need to be double marked, IIRC Evra seems to struggle against pacy players so he most definitely will need help, and if he's (as usual) playing on the right that means Park will be helping Evra, which will leave Alves free. I honeslty don't think there is a way to play against Barcelona other than leave 9 behind the ball and hope for something on the break. Chile tried the "fronting-up" tactic on Spain in the WC and it nearly worked, but then again Messi and Alves weren't on the pitch.

I do, however, think United will score, and I think Valencia will play a key role in the game. I think his presence alone will stop Abidal (presuming he plays of course) from bombing forward, and with Rooney (and maybe Hernandez) up front they will have plenty of pace to cause Barce serious problems. I think this United team is far better equipped to beat Barca this time round but I still can't see it happening.

3-1 Barca for me, Messi with 2.

Blatter

THFC wrote: »

Giggs in the centre of a 4-4-2?? That would be grand, good even, against any other team in the world, but against Barca? They'd run rings around him. IMO Fletcher has to start

Fletcher won't start. It will be Giggs and Carrick in the centre of a 4-4-1-1.

You are underestimating the work that Park does in helping out the cente of midfield and also Rooney will drop deep and sit on Busquets to help it further.

It's not as exposed as it initially looks on paper.

killwill

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Fletcher won't start. It will be Giggs and Carrick in the centre of a 4-4-1-1.

You are underestimating the work that Park does in helping out the cente of midfield and also Rooney will drop deep and sit on Busquets to help it further.

It's not as exposed as it initially looks on paper.

With Fletcher nearing full fitness is this not a possibility?

VDS
Fabio, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Valencia, Carrick, Giggs, Fletcher, Park
Rooney

I am not saying this is my prefered team, I would love Hernandez to score the winner in the CLF. What a season finale that would be!!!

Blatter

killwill wrote: »

With Fletcher nearing full fitness is this not a possibility?

VDS
Fabio, Rio, Vidic, Evra
Valencia, Carrick, Giggs, Fletcher, Park
Rooney

I am not saying this is my prefered team, I would love Hernandez to score the winner in the CLF. What a season finale that would be!!!

I'd be shocked if Fletcher started. I genuinely give Anderson more of a chance of starting if Chico was to be sacrificed. Or even I think Nani could start and Park pushed into the middle of a 3.

Mainly for the reasons Mitch gave above; He's still no where near match full fitness, has lost a lot of weight and his form has been average at best when he has played this season.

But I really do expect Chico to start in the 4-4-1-1.

killwill

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

I'd be shocked if Fletcher started. I genuinely give Anderson more of a chance of starting if Chico was to be sacrificed. Or even I think Nani could start and Park pushed into the middle of a 3.

Mainly for the reasons Mitch gave above; He's still no where near match full fitness, has lost a lot of weight and his form has been average at best when he has played this season.

But I really do expect Chico to start in the 4-4-1-1.[/QUOTE]

For the record, I do too. Mitch's team is spot on, I was just thinking if there was gonna be a surprise in the team, who would the surprise be. I totally forogt about Ando. He would have to be in with a decent shout alright.

Nalz

mike65 wrote: »

I must have chosen not to partake of that - who played?

Whats with the pointless convos? Google down again? PC++

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Manchester United

I think Mitch's team is probably the right one to go with seeing as Fletcher hasn't played much.

However would ye not worry about what Barca's midfield could do seeing as Arsenal with Song, Wilshire and Ramsey in midfield controlled the game the other week against the same team? Rooney kept letting Song free in a lot of space and doing the same with Barca's players could be very dangerous.

Blatter

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

I think Mitch's team is probably the right one to go with seeing as Fletcher hasn't played much.

However would ye not worry about what Barca's midfield could do seeing as Arsenal with Song, Wilshire and Ramsey in midfield controlled the game the other week against the same team? Rooney kept letting Song free in a lot of space and doing the same with Barca's players could be very dangerous.

None of the players looked up for the Arsenal game, I put that performance down to tiredness after having played in Germany a few days before. It was almost the same team that played both those games.

If we approach the game with the same mentality and aggression we showed against Chelsea at OT, we will be in with a shout.

Fuzzy_Dunlop

Manchester United

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

None of the players looked up for the Arsenal game, I put that performance down to tiredness after having played in Germany a few days before. It was almost the same team that played both those games.

If we approach the game with the same mentality and aggression we showed against Chelsea at OT, we will be in with a shout.

Yeah that's true actually, it seems that was more of a blip than anything. No doubt they'll be more up for this one and much more refreshed. That said I still think Rooney and Park in particular will be very important and will have to stay on their toes big time.

Vurnon San Benito

United can snatch a victory here, I have that sneaky feeling. They're very underrated by the bookmakers at nearly 4/1.
Let's just say my money will be going on United..

There's only one winner when English football locks horns with the Spanish Way.*

*Awaits flurry of facts invalidating the above comment.

Paul Tergat

Doocey wrote: »

United can snatch a victory here, I have that sneaky feeling. They're very underrated by the bookmakers at nearly 4/1.
Let's just say my money will be going on United..

There's only one winner when English football locks horns with the Spanish Way.*

*Awaits flurry of facts invalidating the above comment.

Which bookies are we nearly at 4/1? Seems way too long

killwill

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Yeah that's true actually, it seems that was more of a blip than anything. No doubt they'll be more up for this one and much more refreshed. That said I still think Rooney and Park in particular will be very important and will have to stay on their toes big time.

Don't you mean #stayonyourfeet# !!!
Sorry!

Headshot

You know what im really cool about this match, I just dont expect a utd win if im being blunt. Id be dead happy if utd really put in a good show with plenty of honesty of effort

I just hope utd will get a strong ref because we'll certainly need one

Mezcita

p_larkin99 wrote: »

Which bookies are we nearly at 4/1? Seems way too long

Best price is 3/1.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/champions-league/barcelona-v-manchester-united/winner

Paul Tergat

Mezcita wrote: »

Best price is 3/1.

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/champions-league/barcelona-v-manchester-united/winner

yeah i was checking there too. if I could have seen 4/1 I'd be all over it

busyliving

p_larkin99 wrote: »

yeah i was checking there too. if I could have seen 4/1 I'd be all over it

I think Betfair are offering 4's

Also in recent times have heard a lot of Utd fans talk about Park, and they should sell him on...But have these fans not noticed that he plays in the big games for Utd and rarely puts a foot wrong...

I think Park will start in the final and have a great game...but as a Leeds fan I’m supposed to wish for Utd to lose but I’ll be cheering them on as I have done in previous finals...because everyone is sick of Liverpool fans harping on about their 5 European cups and holding the record for most league ti...Oh wait

Mitch Connor

Manchester United

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

@Mitch

Would it not be fair to assume Fabio will start RB? He has started against Schalke away, Arsenal away and Chelsea at home. Those were our last 3 most important games and Rafael was fit.

I don't think Rafael was fit to be honest. Not fully. He went off injured vs Schalke, so I think he may have been suffering from a slight hamstring injury. Not confirmed though.

I do think the issue of Rafael vs Fabio is far less clear cut than it would have been two months ago. As you say, Fabio started the recent big games and there is no way you could really fault him in any of them. My big thing at right back is simply that it has to be one of the twins. We need their pace and mobility, O'Shea would get his ass handed to him by the pace and mobility of Villa. Rafael or Fabio stand a better chance in that regard.

THFC wrote: »

Giggs in the centre of a 4-4-2?? That would be grand, good even, against any other team in the world, but against Barca? They'd run rings around him. IMO Fletcher has to start, but instead of who is the question. I think the only thing you failed to take into account Mitch is that Xavi and Iniesta will be looking to get on the end of through balls too, and with the United defence occupied by MVP, and Park and Valencia occupied by Alves and Abi, that leaves Giggs and Carrick to track Xavi and Iniesta, which, I don't think, would end well at all. I think Messi will also need to be double marked, IIRC Evra seems to struggle against pacy players so he most definitely will need help, and if he's (as usual) playing on the right that means Park will be helping Evra, which will leave Alves free. I honeslty don't think there is a way to play against Barcelona other than leave 9 behind the ball and hope for something on the break. Chile tried the "fronting-up" tactic on Spain in the WC and it nearly worked, but then again Messi and Alves weren't on the pitch.

I have detailed the reasons that I do not think Fletcher should be in the team. Since I wrote that post (a week or so back) his performances in the reserves have only confirmed my opinion - he is miles away from the required match fitness and sharpness. Fergie still may pick him in a 5 man midfield, but I think it would be the wrong choice. If we go with a man midfield I would place Park in the centre with Rooney left and Chico up top. Anderson coming in (keeping Park left and Rooney moved up on his own) is the other option, but fletcher is simply not an option for me.

As for the 442 issue, yes - it is basically a 442. However, you have to take into account the amount of work that Park and Rooney will do especially. They will, or should, massively help out the central midfielders - it won't be 2vs3 in Barcelonas favour. Also, Valencia is know for his defensive work too, the team I have put forward is very, very hard working - I think that is what gives this 442/4411 formation a chance. In terms of tactical discipline and workrate, I think this is the best United side I have seen, and when given a job to do I feel the players can do it.

I simply don't think we can beat Barcelona by packing the midfield and trying to shut them down in the final 3rd. We need to firstly defend higher up the pitch than that and also we need to give something for Barcelona to fear defensively themselves. We can't let them completely dictate the game and the way we play ourselves.

I'm not saying my formation, selection and tactics will certainly get the win - Barca will be favourites regardless, but I think it gives us our best chance.

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

I think Mitch's team is probably the right one to go with seeing as Fletcher hasn't played much.

However would ye not worry about what Barca's midfield could do seeing as Arsenal with Song, Wilshire and Ramsey in midfield controlled the game the other week against the same team? Rooney kept letting Song free in a lot of space and doing the same with Barca's players could be very dangerous.

On the Arsenal game, I think United were simply very poor on the day. We never, at any stage in the game, really got going. We sat off and were slow to react to everything Arsenal did. Same could happen vs Barcelona and we could get crushed, but I would hope the players will be more awake on the 28th. While we did play poorly and were deservedly beaten by Arsenal - the same team played vs Chelsea and destroyed them, dominated that game completely. We were more awake, quicker on and to the ball etc - that is the type of performance we need (just like the 2 CL games vs Chelsea too)

MagicMarker

I reckon Mitch's team is spot on, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 451, and if so I hope it's Nani on for Hernandez.

VDS
Fabio - Rio - Vida - Evra
Val - Carrick - Giggs - Park - Nani
Rooney

An Citeog

MagicMarker wrote: »

I reckon Mitch's team is spot on, but I wouldn't be surprised to see 451, and if so I hope it's Nani on for Hernandez.

VDS
Fabio - Rio - Vida - Evra
Val - Carrick - Giggs - Park - Nani
Rooney

Nani's been poor on the left in recent games though and it'd be suicidal to put him up against Alves imo

gimmick

Manchester United

Had my first dream about this last night. Manyoo were 2-0 up at HT. Ferdinand and a Puyol og. I woke up soon after.

I think people are overselling Barca somewhat here with the overwhelming favourites tag. Man Utd have pretty much pasted everyone they have played in Europe this season (Marseille to one side, but that was very comfortable in truth), and the Fergie factor is massive. I liken this to the Milan V Barca final of 94. Everyone expected it to be a stroll for Barca.

That said, if the game can be kept in the midfield, Barcelona will destroy Utd. Busquets, Iniesta and Xavi are miles better than any combo Utd can put out. If the midfield can stop supply to Hernandez, he is nullified. If it is restricted from Rooney, he will have to go back and forage, taking away a good measure of his danger as well.

Villa and Pedro would both want to remember they are professional footballers as well, as both, especially Villa, have been very poor in recent months. 1 in 14 for Villa!!! Barca cannot just rely on Messi to score the goals. Predatory instinct is needed from Villa, pace and supply from Pedro.

I honestly cannot call it. Furthest I can go is saying 2-1 either way.

CorkMan

I hope United roast Barca.

If Barca win, it would just be like The Netherlands beating Spain in the World Cup final last year.

Frisbee

CorkMan wrote: »

I hope United roast Barca.

If Barca win, it would just be like The Netherlands beating Spain in the World Cup final last year.

lol wut?

CorkMan

Frisbee wrote: »

lol wut?

They are both highlighting what's wrong for the game, The Netherlands with their kung-fu kicks and ultra-hacks and Barca with their diving, pretending their leg is broken and running back onto the pitch as soon as is possible.

Come to think of it, De Jong didn't get sent off for that Kung-Fu kick to the chest in the WC final.