Is it illegal to change a tyre on a motorway hard shoulder??

slinky2000

Can someone answer this for certain?

I'm nearly 100% sure it is illegal in the UK but I'm not sure about here in Ireland.

Thanks

cml387

I can't see anything in the RSA rules that says it's illegal.

Iwannahurl

I would have thought that a tyre blowing at 120 kph on a motorway would be a legitimate reason for using the emergency lane, or whatever it's called in this country.

What are motorists required to do in such situations, according to the UK rules?

mickdw

No way would I even sit in the car on the hard shoulder for any period of time much less be on my knees with my legs near the driving lane changing a tyre

cml387

All I can see in the UK rules are for what to do in case of a breakdown.

The safe answer is to call for the breakdown people,and get all passengers out of the car and away from the road.
However,the OP's question is whether it's illegal to change a tyre.I don't think so.

AugustusMinimus

cml387 wrote: »

I can't see anything in the RSA rules that says it's illegal.

I didn't realise that the RSA are legislating.

Welease

I don't believe it's illegal in the UK, but the highway code recommends calling breakdown services because of the danger of being outside your vehicle on the hard shoulder..

robtri

in the uk it is defo agains the rules
Reg 14 of the Motorway Traffic Regulations in England and Wales or Reg 12 of the same act in Scotland forbids any repairs call police and wait


not sure here... but iirc it is illegal to stop and offer to help someone who has broken down......

cml387

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I didn't realise that the RSA are legislating.

Er,the RSA "Rules of the Road"

Welease

cml387 wrote: »

Er,the RSA "Rules of the Road"

I believe his point is.. the RSA don't make legislation (laws).. the Rules of the Road are an interpretation of the legislation.. and include some "rules" which don't exist in legislation (roundabout etiquette for instance).

challengemaster

cml387 wrote: »

Er,the RSA "Rules of the Road"

Which are just guidelines - If you want the actual laws, look up the road traffic acts

cml387

robtri wrote: »

in the uk it is defo agains the rules
Reg 14 of the Motorway Traffic Regulations in England and Wales or Reg 12 of the same act in Scotland forbids any repairs call police and wait


not sure here... but iirc it is illegal to stop and offer to help someone who has broken down......

Since we are now having a debate about rules,offences and guidelines I still don't see where it is said that it is an offence to change a wheel on the motorway.You are certainly advised not to (correctly imv).

And a previous poster was correct (oops)

Yes it is under Reg 14 of the Motorway Traffic Regulations in England and Wales or Reg 12 of the same act in Scotland.

You MUST notify the Highways Agency Patrol or the police via the roadside phones or mobile and wait for them to attend.

The Highway code also states that you shouldn't attempt even the simplest roadside repair on the Hard-shoulder.

Seth Brundle

Kind of says it all IMO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXR16QDS8I

AugustusMinimus

kbannon wrote: »

Kind of says it all IMO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXR16QDS8I

They have break down lanes on both sides ?

CiniO

Rules for Traffic on Motorways


33. (1) A driver on a motorway shall not—


( a ) drive a vehicle against the direction of traffic flow;


( b ) drive a vehicle on or across any part of the motorway which is not a carriageway;


( c ) stop or park a vehicle on any part of a motorway
....

(3) A prohibition imposed by sub-article (1) (c) shall not apply—


( a ) in the case of a vehicle which is stopped on a carriageway while it is prevented from proceeding by an obstruction, or


( b ) subject to sub-article (4), in the case of a vehicle which has been involved in an accident or is broken down.


(4) ( a ) on a motorway, the driver or other person in charge of a vehicle which has been involved in an accident or cannot proceed because of breakdown, mechanical defect or other emergency shall—


(i) as soon as, and insofar as, is possible, drive or move the vehicle from the carriageway on to the nearest available space to the left of the left hand edge of the carriageway so that no part of the vehicle extends on to the carriageway;


(ii) use the nearest available telephone as soon as possible to notify the Garda Síochána of the accident, breakdown or other circumstance which has necessitated the stopping of the vehicle on the motorway.


( b ) The driver or other person in charge of a vehicle to which this article applies shall not allow the vehicle to remain parked on the motorway for longer than is necessary and for this purpose shall accept an offer of assistance or service by a member of the Garda Síochána or by an employee or agent of a road authority.

Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0182.html#zzsi182y1997a33

According to above, after getting puncture, you have to park as far left as possible, and call the guards.
Nothing is stated that should forbid to change a wheel, but I understand that guards while contacted should request you to walk away from motorway, and wait for rescue, not change tyre yourself.

Voodoomelon

So if you got a puncture, ring the gardai, they then got a breakdown truck to tow you off the motorway? Thats the correct procedure?

Seems ridiculous to me to have so many people involved and in danger on the side of the motorway when you could pull right in and have the wheel changed in 5 minutes? How do they even get an automatic car with a puncture on the rear off the motorway or even onto the back of a truck without destroying the tyre?

bijapos

A puncture is not considered to be a breakdown, what they mean with "repair" is trying to fix a mechanical defect such as a burst radiator. The correct procedure is:


1. Park as far in on the hard shoulder as is reasonable/possible
2. Move all occupants away from the vehicle, to the other side of the barriers or up an embankment. If any hi-viz vests are available put these on.
3. Place warning triangle or light at a minimum of 100m from the vehicle (doesn't apply in Ireland bizzarely enough)
4. Inform relevant authorities of the situation.
5. If its a puncture you can fix it yourself after you have informed the authorities and if its safe to do so.

This is the recommended procedure in most European countries, I'm not aware of any where it is forbidden to change a tyre.

CiniO

Voodoomelon wrote: »

So if you got a puncture, ring the gardai, they then got a breakdown truck to tow you off the motorway? Thats the correct procedure?

Seems ridiculous to me to have so many people involved and in danger on the side of the motorway when you could pull right in and have the wheel changed in 5 minutes? How do they even get an automatic car with a puncture on the rear off the motorway or even onto the back of a truck without destroying the tyre?

It's funny to read in neighbour thread what people thing about using anything else than proper axle stand for doing any undercar work, and find anything else extremely dangerous, but at the same time don't see anything wrong with changing a wheel on the motorway.

Nowhere in civilised world, is allowed to change tyre on motorway.
Generally what I can see on Irish motorways is just a carnage with amount of people parking and doing strange things here.
Nowhere in Europe you can see anything even bit similar to what can be seen on Irish motorways.

Voodoomelon

You said it yourself, underwork. This is changing a wheel. If it was a narrow section of motorway, i'd think twice about it. But if there was a decent set back from the edge of the road, i'd probably have a stab at it.

slinky2000

I'd certaintly do it myself but I was just wondering if it was actually legal or not. I tihnk I'll stick with my gut instincts and change it if it's safe!

Pkiernan

The PROPER and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to drive slowly to the next exit, get off the motorway and then change your tyre.

It amazes me how incredibly stupid people can be, valuing some poxy rim over their own lives.

If you drive nice and easy you won't even damage your rim.

Any other course of action is basically retarded (that includes parking on the hard shoulder and waiting for the Guards).

This thread can be successfully concluded now.

Marcin_diy

Pkiernan wrote: »

The PROPER and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to drive slowly to the next exit, get off the motorway and then change your tyre.

It amazes me how incredibly stupid people can be, valuing some poxy rim over their own lives.

If you drive nice and easy you won't even damage your rim.

Any other course of action is basically retarded (that includes parking on the hard shoulder and waiting for the Guards).

This thread can be successfully concluded now.

Yes - it is very safe and intelligent to drive 10km/h on 120km/h motorway

Seth Brundle

slinky2000 wrote: »

I'd certaintly do it myself but I was just wondering if it was actually legal or not. I tihnk I'll stick with my gut instincts and change it if it's safe!

IIRC there was a fatal crash a year or two ago on the M1 (I think) when a car pulled over to the HS was hit by another.
Its not safe!

keithclancy

Fook that ... I'd just stick the warning triangle out about 250 meters down the road and change the tyre.

Pkiernan

I have done it and would do it again. Calling breakdown services for a puncture, you must be joking.

I really think peoples fear of the hardshoulder in a motorway is over exaggerated. Its no more dangerous than any other hard shoulder and I prefer it to walking on the side of the road with no HS which people are doing all day everyday up and down the country.

I cant believe peoples responses actually.

Pkiernan wrote: »

The PROPER and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to drive slowly to the next exit, get off the motorway and then change your tyre.

It amazes me how incredibly stupid people can be, valuing some poxy rim over their own lives.
.

The chances of anything happening are tiny imo, Id risk it rather than ruin my tyre/rim.

smokie2008

Pkiernan wrote: »

The PROPER and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to drive slowly to the next exit, get off the motorway and then change your tyre.

It amazes me how incredibly stupid people can be, valuing some poxy rim over their own lives.

If you drive nice and easy you won't even damage your rim.

Any other course of action is basically retarded (that includes parking on the hard shoulder and waiting for the Guards).

This thread can be successfully concluded now.

Satanta

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

They have break down lanes on both sides ?

Isnt that the carpool lane in the states?

IvyTheTerrible

I wouldn't change a tire on the side of a motorway in a fit...last year the head gasket in my car blew doing 130 on a motorway and just watching how the car moved when trucks went past at that speed gave me the willies.

whippet

I changed a tyre on the M50 a few weeks ago in rush hour traffic and being the driver's side wheel is was a scary operation !!!

I put the triange about 150 meters down the hard shoulder and faced the traffic while I was on my hunkers and I must admit it was the fastest change ever.

I had a total blowout and by the time I even got to the hard shoulder the tyre was almost entirely shredded.

I counted about 4 different garda cars driving past me as well.

blastman

Simliar to whippet, I had a driver's side tyre blow out on me on the M1 recently (brand new tyre, too, wasn't impressed!).

I managed to get across a couple of lanes and on to the hard shoulder. Luckily, where I pulled in had a small spot for maintenance vehicles off the hard shoulder itself, so I was well in off the main lanes. I wouldn't fancy having it happen very often, mind you.

stargazer 68

My sister broke down on the M50. Think her timing belt went and she couldnt get across to the left hand lane and stopped in the middle lane. Hit her hazard lights. The amount of people flying past her flashing their lights and shouting at her - you think she had stopped for a fag or something!! :mad:

Eventually 2 cars stopped and guys got out and managed to push her car off the road so she could call the breakdown services. If they hadn't stopped to help who knows what would have happened.

Paddy@CIRL

Another similar question - I spotted a member of AGS in an unmarked Ford Mondeo stopped on the hard shoulder south of Thomastown on the M9 southbound. Driver's door open, uniformed officer sitting out of the car using a speedgun on cars coming towards him. He was around 600M away from a designated 'Garda Cars Only' area.

There is no way in hell what he was doing was appropriate ?

Pkiernan

Marcin_diy wrote: »

Yes - it is very safe and intelligent to drive 10km/h on 120km/h motorway

Congratulations on getting your Learners Permit.

When you pass your test, and are allowed on the motorways you will observe a lane known as the "hard shoulder".

You can use this to get safely off the motorway to change your tyre.

Seth Brundle

Pkiernan wrote: »

Congratulations on getting your Learners Permit.

When you pass your test, and are allowed on the motorways you will observe a lane known as the "hard shoulder".

You can use this to get safely off the motorway to change your tyre.

The HS could never, ever be regarded as safe whether you are stopped or driving slowly. The only positive aspect about using the HS is that many Irish drivers won't be using lane 1!

slimjimmc

Philip Embarrassed Tourism wrote: »

I have done it and would do it again. Calling breakdown services for a puncture, you must be joking.

I really think peoples fear of the hardshoulder in a motorway is over exaggerated. Its no more dangerous than any other hard shoulder and I prefer it to walking on the side of the road with no HS which people are doing all day everyday up and down the country.

I cant believe peoples responses actually.



The chances of anything happening are tiny imo, Id risk it rather than ruin my tyre/rim.

Do you still think that?
http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/local/woman_s_lucky_escape_in_motorway_truck_smash_1_2571307

PS: somewhere under that truck is the debris of the emergency phone, lucky for the driver she wasn't using it at the time, only the concrete base remains.

Seth Brundle

slimjimmc wrote: »

Do you still think that?
http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/local/woman_s_lucky_escape_in_motorway_truck_smash_1_2571307

She parked there? :rolleyes:

Bruthal

Pkiernan wrote: »

The PROPER and INTELLIGENT thing to do is to drive slowly to the next exit, get off the motorway and then change your tyre.

It amazes me how incredibly stupid people can be, valuing some poxy rim over their own lives.

If you drive nice and easy you won't even damage your rim.

Any other course of action is basically retarded (that includes parking on the hard shoulder and waiting for the Guards).

This thread can be successfully concluded now.

So you would drive to the next exit if it was 20km away on a flat tyre, taking 1.5 to 2 hours? Sounds like a good INTELLIGENT idea.

I suppose if you have engine failure, the best course of action is to push the car to the next exit?

Bruthal

Pkiernan wrote: »

Congratulations on getting your Learners Permit.

When you pass your test, and are allowed on the motorways you will observe a lane known as the "hard shoulder".

You can use this to get safely off the motorway to change your tyre.

You must be having a laugh with these posts, the other poster was 100% right, it is just about no better driving in a hard shoulder at walking pace with a flat tyre than it is being stopped. Even driving 5km to the next exit will take between a half hour and an hour at very best.

And talking about the poster getting their learners permit? Sounds like someone should be re-evaluated for fitness to drive.

CiniO

Dovies wrote: »

My sister broke down on the M50. Think her timing belt went and she couldnt get across to the left hand lane and stopped in the middle lane. Hit her hazard lights. The amount of people flying past her flashing their lights and shouting at her - you think she had stopped for a fag or something!! :mad:

Eventually 2 cars stopped and guys got out and managed to push her car off the road so she could call the breakdown services. If they hadn't stopped to help who knows what would have happened.

In normal motorway traffic she should have no problems moving to the hard shoulder after breakdown - even from most right lane - as there should be no one overtaking her on the left side.

Unfortunately in Ireland this rule for some unknown reason doesn't work.

Bruthal

CiniO wrote: »

In normal motorway traffic she should have no problems moving to the hard shoulder after breakdown - even from most right lane - as there should be no one overtaking her on the left side.

Unfortunately in Ireland this rule for some unknown reason doesn't work.

If your timing belt goes there will be a fairly rapid slow down, so unless it was a very clear road it would be difficult enough to change across 2 lanes while free-wheeling, but the reality is when the engine stops running, there will be a time of wondering whats wrong etc, and the car still in gear with the engine now slowing the car quicker than it would if coasting.

Stinicker

I blew a tyre last year on the M8 up by Cashel, I was doing 150km/h and was in the overtaking lane when it blew, felt the rubber shredding and got her down to 100km/h before it went.

I drove off the hard shoulder onto the grass median and went to change the spare, the jack sank into the soft ground and failed to lift the car, rang my Breakdown cover off the insurance and they came out and changed the wheel.

I placed the warning triangle, donned the yellow hi vis vest and myself and passenger sat up on the timber fencing away from the Motorway waiting for the rescue truck. Two guys pulled in offering help which was really helpful if I was stuck.

Bruthal

Stinicker wrote: »

I blew a tyre last year on the M8 up by Cashel, I was doing 150km/h and was in the overtaking lane when it blew, felt the rubber shredding and got her down to 100km/h before it went.

I drove off the hard shoulder onto the grass median and went to change the spare, the jack sank into the soft ground and failed to lift the car, rang my Breakdown cover off the insurance and they came out and changed the wheel.

I placed the warning triangle, donned the yellow hi vis vest and myself and passenger sat up on the timber fencing away from the Motorway waiting for the rescue truck. Two guys pulled in offering help which was really helpful if I was stuck.

Maybe you could of borrowed one of the planks off the wood fence to put under the jack. Not that it would be extremely stable or anything.

slimjimmc

slimjimmc wrote: »

Do you still think that?
http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/local/woman_s_lucky_escape_in_motorway_truck_smash_1_2571307

PS: somewhere under that truck is the debris of the emergency phone, lucky for the driver she wasn't using it at the time, only the concrete base remains.

Well yes, something happening once or a small number of times in comparison to the traffic volume on motorways means that the chance of something going wrong is very small. Imo you are in more danger going about your daily business on the country's N roads than of getting hit in a hardshoulder of a motorway.

Stinicker

robbie7730 wrote: »

Maybe you could of borrowed one of the planks off the wood fence to put under the jack. Not that it would be extremely stable or anything.

The timber boards were screwed on, although I did scavenge up and down for about a minute looking for something. With the speed the cars were passing at and all the rubbernecking it was pretty dangerous situation.

If I drove the car out onto the hard-shoulder I could have done it myself, however I'd be literally a few feet from the driving lane as it was the right hand rear tyre that blew, thus my decision to drive off the tarmac entirely. When the Breakdown truck arrived he parked on the hard shoulder and it was well lit up and provided him with a shield from the traffic.

IvyTheTerrible

Philip Embarrassed Tourism wrote: »

Well yes, something happening once or a small number of times in comparison to the traffic volume on motorways means that the chance of something going wrong is very small. Imo you are in more danger going about your daily business on the country's N roads than of getting hit in a hardshoulder of a motorway.

Except that it's once or a small number of times relative to the number of cars parked in the hard shoulder, not the volume of traffic. Chances go way up then.

Marcin_diy

Pkiernan wrote: »

Congratulations on getting your Learners Permit.

When you pass your test, and are allowed on the motorways you will observe a lane known as the "hard shoulder".

You can use this to get safely off the motorway to change your tyre.

You have wrong information Pkiernan - I never had a learners permit. :)I had 20h driving on the roads with instructor, 30 h theory in a motor school, passed full exam, and got my driving licence. I don't really know what should I reply to you. Nobody is allowed to drive on the hard shoulder - if you don't understand this simple thing I'm not surprised that you wrote what you wrote in your previous post.What is safer thing to do ?change a flat tyre in 5 minutes, or drive for half an hour or an hour on restricted area? What if exit from the motorway has 500m and there is no hard shoulder? will you still drive 5-10km per h waiting for big truck to hit your back? have you ever drove on german Motorway with no speed limit? sometimes distance to the nearest exit, or petrol station is 50km - would you drive on hard shoulder for 5h ?

slinky2000

Question from the most recent Driver theory book: